| Do you think in some cases the police should be able to use this much force to arrest someone
Posted: 3/8/2007 1:16:34 AM | CCTV footage has emerged showing a young black woman, who may have been having an epileptic fit, being punched five times by a police officer.
Toni Comer, 20, was arrested outside a Sheffield nightclub for vandalising a car when she was thrown out.
During her arrest an officer from South Yorkshire Police said that he hit her "as hard as I am physically able" to subdue her so she could be handcuffed. She was later dragged away with her trousers around her ankles.
But Ms Comer, who admits being drunk at the time of the arrest, is epileptic and believes her movements may have been caused by a fit.
The incident was captured on CCTV and Ms Comer is now launching legal action against the South Yorkshire force.
Chief Superintendent Ali Dizaei of the National Black Police Association called for an investigation by the Independent Police Complaints Commission, saying that it was "absolutely" a concern that race may have been an issue.
But he said that, while the video looked "appalling" at first glance, it was acceptable for officers to use force of the kind if the arrest was proving difficult.
Shami Chakrabarti, director of Liberty, said: "These images turn the stomach and raise serious questions about police misconduct.
"The IPCC must investigate urgently in the knowledge that public confidence in modern policing and the police complaints system is at stake."
In a statement, South Yorkshire Police said: "We are satisfied with the way this incident was handled and happy with the conduct of the officer, but we will investigate the circumstances of the complaint."
I havent seen this footage, or why it seems so much force had to be used in the arrest.
But for those who have seen it, or even witnessed such force,
Do you think in some cases the police should be able to use this much force to arrest someone, or that it may just give some an excuse to be a bit to heavy handed.. | |
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| How much is to much..
Posted: 3/8/2007 1:26:01 AM | I find it odd that you have so much to say without actually having seen the footage but each to their own. What I saw of the footage was indeed shocking on first viewing but then police said they would often use force like that to give anybody a 'dead arm' who was resisiting having handcuffs placed on them. Having said that, if the officers involved can't get a suspect into a police car (especially a size 8 female) without resorting to such heavy handed tactics, then I suggest they could do with a review of their restraint training or at least all police officers should be issued with balaclavas to prevent repeat embassment. The girl in question looked fine afterwards and I am sure she is looking forward to a healthy bit of compensation, but as to why they pulled her pants down I would like to think it was to stop her continueing to kick out and not to have a peep at her lady bits.
Shirls x x | |
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Leece
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Joined: 10/9/2005
Msg: 3 | |
| How much is to much..
Posted: 3/8/2007 1:30:43 AM | I saw this footage and it was frankly quite terrifying, I would hate to be in the position that young lady was in, but then I am too boring to get that drunk and difficult.
But come on, she was size 8 and even pissed she can't have been strong enough to warrant being held down by all those police officers!!!
And as to the punching... yeah right... he REALLY needed to do that? I don't think so.
If the police are going to continue to dish out that kind of thing and are stupid enough to get caught on CCTV, then they deserve to have to pay out compensation.
Consider it Stupidity Tax. | |
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| How much is to much..
Posted: 3/8/2007 2:00:54 AM | I saw the footage and i believe that unnecessary force had been used, 1 female,! 3 highly trained police officers and 1 police dog, now come on, your telling me that the police officer HAD to punch her 3 x in order to restrain her.
i think the officer concerned lost his temper and control of the situation. | |
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-Hams-
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Joined: 10/30/2006
Msg: 5 | |
| How much is to much..
Posted: 3/8/2007 2:51:26 AM | It seems that South Yorkshire Police are being accused of being racist now
by this lady and the race relations industry and are to be sued for compensation..
This woman was arrested in the first place for damaging a vehicle and for
being drunk and disorderly,not because she is a black woman,it makes me mad
when people use their race or religion as the only reason for being arrested..
Ive seen the footage and while its not clear where the woman was punched
i dont belive the policeman would have punched her anywhere other than her
arm and would have not done so unless it was completely neccessary.
The copper said that she kept grabing his genitals during the arrest,lucky him!! | |
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| How much is to much..
Posted: 3/8/2007 2:58:44 AM | Policemen do use too much force and do take advantage of their power and i am commenting on this becase the father of my children is now sporting a scar down one side of his face because of their actions.He was shoved face down to the floor while handcuffed therefore he couldnt protect his face because his hands were behind his back now is that right ? He was handcuffed ready to go in the police car/van so why did they feel the need to shove him to the foor ?
Something does need to be done to stop things like this happening. | |
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| How much is to much..
Posted: 3/8/2007 3:05:15 AM | So according to the Chief Super of the National Black Police Association..(why is there such an organisation in the first place I ask myself..can you imagine if there was an Association of White Policemen???) it is acceptable to use the kind of force applied in this incident, if the arrest is proving difficult...but obviously not when ethnic minorities are concerned, otherwise it is going to be viewed as a racist attack by the police.
Was the woman concerned actually having an eplitectic fit or not?..as the post said she "may" have been having one, then it becomes unclear...or is this just an excuse for her uncontrollable behaviour?...I admit to not having seen the footage but, she was drunk and disorderly, had vandalised a car, and resisted arrest...what were the police supposed to do? tell her off for being naughty and give her a lift home?...NO...she was breaking the law!!!....IMO it's time all coppers were issued with tazers...ideal for situations such as this. | |
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| How much is to much..
Posted: 3/8/2007 3:51:10 AM | I could be wrong here, but I have been told by somone who has epileptic fits, that he is on medication to control them, he has been warned not to drink while on the medication let alone to drink to excess.
It will all come out after an investigation though, if there was excessive force then bruising should show, if the lady was drunk and not having a fit, then blood/urine tests will show that.
Maybe the whole CCTV footage has to be seen not just what the media wants us to see.
If she was not drunk and indeed having a fit then why is she not sueing the club that evicted her? Maybe her behaviour inside the club will show how drunk she was. They did not evict her for no reason. Lots of ifs right now. If she was having a fit she seems to remember a lot, my M8 remembers nothing when he has one. If she had taken meds she should not be drinking.
I do not condone excessive force in any way, but how do you measure that? circumstances usually dictate to the amount of force neccessary. I am no big fan of the police, but it would not be fair accuse a police officer of being a racist every time he has to deal with a person of a different race. It needs a thorough investigation.
Dead leg dead arm a common way to bring somone who is out of control back under control. It also stops a person who is thrashing about,to stop injuring themseves.
Pants round ankles as someone else has said a good way to stop getting a kick in the face or the private parts. ( testicles) Not too lady like, but then she was not acting like a lady was she? I am sure the police realised they where on CCTV so I think it would be a little dodgy to do something untoward.
Just my views nothing to do with age.
EDIT As I have said have we seen all that is neccessary, or just what the media wishes us to see. I am not being Glib I am being realistic, and I will wait untill a full enquiry has been performed before jumping to conclusions. Things are not always as they are first portrayed. That is either way. How do you dead leg someone without hitting them? I have not dissagreed with any ones point of view, but always someone has to have a go at somone elses opinion.(glib)
Read my post properly. She was hardly incapable was she? she was doing a good job on the car. I still reserve my judgment
VVVVVVV | |
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| How much is to much..
Posted: 3/8/2007 3:56:59 AM | | whether or not she was an epileptic who had been drinking is immaterial, the force used in this case was excessive, would you be so glib if was your mother or sister, I was appalled at this footage | |
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| How much is to much..
Posted: 3/8/2007 4:00:16 AM | I am in complete agreement with the girl above me, the force used was nothing more than brutal bullying of an incapable and very small woman.
girl below me, well said you are absolutely right any man attacking a woman is wrong and shouldnt go unpunished | |
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| How much is to much..
Posted: 3/8/2007 4:07:18 AM | | The officer used way too much force & after realising it had been caught on camera is now trying to talk his way out of a bad situation, I dont think it was a racial attack just that he lost his temper & over-reacted. If it had been anyone other than a police officer he would have been arrested fot ABH at the very least, his actions are appalling & the colleagues covering his back should be ashamed of themselves IMO | |
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| How much is to much..
Posted: 3/8/2007 5:10:33 AM | | Its a shame people are judging this incident without the whole story coming to light. As usual the media has deceided to show only the final moments of the arrest for sensatialism, not the events leading up to the arrest so the full picture can be used to judge the actions of the officers involved. Also the person arrested did not need to be treated for any injury occured during the arrest and has since pleaded guilty to criminal damage. | |
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| How much is to much..
Posted: 3/8/2007 8:15:53 AM | | I just saw it quickly on tv last night, and thought it was a bit ott, then realised that it was infact a woman that was being hit. There is very little excuse in Police hitting a person once, let alone 5 times. I know that some people are very very aggressive when arested and it must be very hard not to give them a sly dig, but there are not many women , sober or not, that need 4 policemen to get them under control. It was not a good thing for the police to be seen doing! | |
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| How much is to much..
Posted: 3/8/2007 8:36:12 AM | Have to agree with HAMS on this one.
She was damageing a vehicle and if that had been me and my car she would have got a hell of a lot more than the police give her. People moan when the crimanal gets away with it saying the police and the law aren't tough enough, The minute they become tough their slammed for excessive force.
This has made me really cross, and their she is on the TV oh feel bad for me, feel bad for her, i'd rather put my boot up her a***.
I have no time or patents for people who commit any sort of crime, as fair as i'm concerned they deserve everything they get and more. It can't be both ways, it's one or the other. The people I do feel for is the police, | |
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| How much is to much..
Posted: 3/8/2007 9:25:15 AM | | Crime should be punished......so why is it ok for police to assult people and say its there job because if that was me or you punching ppl we'd be arrested ! i personaly think that yes criminals should be punished but not with violence, and to condone police brutality because she damaged a car is just wrong. It doesnt matter wot this lady did or how she acted nobody deserves to get a couple of digs as they are being arrested. | |
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| How much is to much..
Posted: 3/8/2007 9:35:14 AM | | Yawwwnn boring, don't be a twat, don't break the law, then you won't get arrested... Simple as..... If she was such a sweet innocent poor wikkle victim then she wouldn't have even come under the notice of the police and just one other point, the footage doesn't let you hear what she may have been saying or threatening... | |
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| How much is to much..
Posted: 3/8/2007 9:43:08 AM | The police abuse their position and go on a power trip, my ex was done for drunk and disorderly (because his wallet got stolen whilst at a pub, and when he started to ask people if they had seen anything the police were called, and yes he was arrested and the thief got off!) We were 18 and he was carted off in a meat wagon, when he came back they had ripped his clothes, and battered him, I watched him being handcuffed and his clothes were not ripped when they set off to the station, so somewhere along the journey they had beaten him shi*less, no need as he was already restrained, haven't seen the footage of the mentioned attack on this woman but it really doesn't surprise me in the slightest, the officers must be thick as fu*k though if they don't yet realize we are liveing in the big brother age and they were bound to be caught on CCTV. Donut anyone?  | |
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Posted: 3/8/2007 10:48:25 AM | | Ive just got to add, if the police had caught the theiving **stards who burgled me, and trashed my house, and if they had to use force, I would have been shouting aim for the head. The a***holes destroyed what they didn't take, I'd worked hard for everything I had, so I couldn't give a crap if those caught destroying someone elses property had the stuffing kicked out of them. They have no respect for someone elses propertiy so why should even a little bit be shown to them. Sorry but having my property stolen and destroyed, has made me few things like this very differantly. | |
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| How much is to much..
Posted: 3/8/2007 10:51:01 AM | Well I have just seen the video, and I do think it was way over the top. for the police officer to hit her anyway; even if she had grabbed him, if you look she is already down on the ground with 4 officers already with her, so how can she be doing whatever she was supposed too be doing... It looked like she was already in handcuffs! I mean it takes 4 men too do this to a woman. even though she broke the law; there was no need for them to do this, they are supposed to up-hold the law not break it themselves. this is wrong in everyway possible.
Just police going over the top again. | |
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| How much is to much..
Posted: 3/8/2007 11:01:14 AM | I agree with everything Pants says, chucked out of a club for being agressive after drinking brandy all night, causing criminal damage to a car, resisting arrest, sounds like a pillar of society | |
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| How much is to much..
Posted: 3/8/2007 11:10:25 AM | Race may have been an issue ?????
Black, pink, green, yellow, white ?
she could be $oddin indigo for all i care.....she commited
a crime, end of!
am fed up of people blaming things on racism! Grrrrrrrr! | |
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| How much is to much..
Posted: 3/8/2007 11:20:09 AM |
Have to agree with HAMS on this one.
She was damageing a vehicle and if that had been me and my car she would have got a hell of a lot more than the police give her. People moan when the crimanal gets away with it saying the police and the law aren't tough enough, The minute they become tough their slammed for excessive force.
Absolutely. Well said.
If that was my car she'd have got a kicking too. | |
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| How much is to much..
Posted: 3/8/2007 11:26:03 AM | As usual, with the media, it's all taken out of context - as the boss of that copper was right to point out on an interview at lunchtime today.
The 'incident' on the steps was maybe 1/10 of the whole scenario and can be interpreted many ways..
I saw her being interviewed too, and a picture of an 'injury' allegedly sustained during the 'racially motivated' attack was shown. It looked like a fag burn!!
If the copper had used excessive force on her then surely to God she'd be showing tha massive bruising she'd received, on her arm, where she'd been 'dead armed'...
to use having a fit as an excuse to criminally damaging a car, and being able to run at such a speed after having had a fit, is going to get laughed out of court.
Whatever the woman is - she was displaying enough bad behaviour to trigger the Police into a reaction.
Max Clifford will be on the phone to her tonight, I guess   | |
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| How much is to much..
Posted: 3/8/2007 11:39:38 AM | oh, and to those who are sayin "oh, the poor size 8 woman, how could they claim to need so much force to subdue her".
Obviously you have never had to subdue someone before. humans have 4 higly agile appendages that can cause serious damage (and a headbutt can hurt like hell too). It can take more than one adult to subdue a violent _child_ let alone a full grown woman.
Yes, theres training that can allow a single adult to restrain someone with 'apparent' ease, but not every police officer is a blackbelt! | |
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