| Are men wired to cheat?
Posted: 3/19/2007 3:12:21 PM | This isnt directed to christains or people who beleive there is a higher power, god, spirit etc.
IM gonna catch hell for this but im wondering how many people do not believe in a higher power or god, what people here believe in evolution in which god didnt start but you also think its wrong to cheat?
Lets discuss
To you atheists that believe we are animals, you believe life happend by chance but you think its wrong to cheat. How do you come up with this logic? If you believe in evoulution then it wired us to cheat! If we die and rot and are souless and not judged what is the point of staying loyal to one person?
How can you say this is right or wrong? You dont believe in a higher power or judgement.
Sex is not love !!! Sex is like taking a shit, eating, pissing, consuming fluids its what we do and have to do to stay alive or pro create.
Love is jumping in front of a bullet for someone, love is when there is only one thing in the house to eat and your broke and your spouse is hungry as are you but you let them have the last bit of food. Love is sacraficing things you could use in order to help a loved one.
Lets look in the animal kingdom NO animal will stay with the same mate, some may but they will also mate with another animal. So if you are a athiest and beleive we are nothing more than animals why is it wrong to cheat when the very thing you beleive in Created us this way?
Fact is if i evolved from a primordial soup i was evouled to want to mate with many people in order to create and keep the species alive.
I think we are wired to cheat say what you will, But the statistics and numbers and facts speak for themselfs. I belief in a God therefore i will not cheat but if i beleive i was jsut a souless animal and this is the way i was made by chance why would i not cheat?
Sex does not = love
Just something i always ponder | |
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| Are men wired to cheat?
Posted: 3/19/2007 3:43:47 PM | Interesting thoughts. I've always looked at the human condition as being a struggle between our baser animal selves, and our spiritual selves. We need the animal part of our nature to survive. But the spiritual side of us is what makes us truly human.
On the animal side, a male’s best strategy for genetic survival is to spread his seed as far and wide as possible. Odds are in favor of at least one of his offspring surviving as a result. Women on the other hand, have the exact opposite survival strategy. They have to become pregnant, then nurture a baby in their bodies for 9 months, and invest an additional umpteen years in caring for the child. It is in their best interest to secure one faithful man who is a good protector and provider, so that the chances of her offspring surviving are increased.
This difference in the animal nature of men and woman, has caused a lot of conflict throughout history. Fortunately, we have a spiritual side to our nature as well, and it is this spiritual side that bridges the difference, allows the formation of family, and provides stability for society.
But that's a whole other topic :)
Suffice it to say that we all, male or female, struggle with balancing both aspects of our nature, and the people who have really impacted us in a positive way, throughout history, have been the ones that have found that balance. | |
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| Are men wired to cheat?
Posted: 3/19/2007 3:52:27 PM | you make some compelling arguments. first off i will say that i believe in a higher power and i believe in a judgement day. having said that, i also believe in evolution. just because i believe in a higher power does not mean i must also believe in god creating the world in seven days (funny how he worked on a calander created by man).
but this is not a theological debate, so i will return to the question asked.
i do not cheat, however i do believe that humans are not meant to be monogomous. but since i believe in the credo "do unto others as you would have them do unto you", THAT is my reason for not cheating.
comparing humans to the rest of the animal kingdom is not a fair argument in my opinion, because we are self-aware and have the power of choice, animals do not, they work on instinct.
your comment that no animal will stay with the same mate is in error. swans are examples of animals that will mate with only one partner and it is for life. i do agree that it is very rare though. | |
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| Are men wired to cheat?
Posted: 3/19/2007 4:01:43 PM | Actually we are biologically, mamals. We do have urges and instincts like any mamal would possess. But you are right in that not all animals are the same...so who's to say exactly which instincts we do have.
But our "self awareness" comes from the spiritual side of our makeup. So any discussion about the differences between animals and humans would be mute without taking into consideration that which makes us human...or self aware.
One side does not negate or destroy the other side...it is balance that is needed. We need that animal part of our nature to survive on this earth, as individuals and as a species...but we need the spiritual side to be human...and interestingly, with today's technological capablities, to survive on this earth :) | |
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| Are men wired to cheat?
Posted: 3/19/2007 4:05:19 PM | I for one, agree with the statements, in terms of their relevance to sex not equalling love!
I believe in no higher power, I believe I am responsible for the choices I make, I believe, that my past guides me to my present, and MAY affect my future.! I control my life and it's outcome, whether I am happy, sad, angry,,,any emotional resolve relies on me and me only!
Therefore I do "not cheat" persay, but do enjoy mutliple partners with understanding of a loving nurturing woman who respects my desire, and shares in it. In order to resolve the emotional issue that many humans have, I was direct and upfront before we got serious about my desires. It was her choice whether to continue the journey or not! She decided to try, understands and now enjoys it as I do! I suppose thats the part that makes us different then animals, we can rationally decide what is best for us, in all aspect in our life decisions! | |
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| Are men wired to cheat?
Posted: 3/19/2007 4:05:41 PM | I believe men are no more wired to cheat than women are! Men do not have the exclusive corner on cheating!
I don't think that your belief in a higher power has anything at all to do with whether a person cheats or not! I've talked to a lot of people who have cheated and there is one factor that remains the same... whatever it is, there is a need that's not being met in the relationship. Most of the time however, the cheater is not making their desires and needs known to their partner sometimes it's intentionally, sometimes it's unintentionally!! Bottom line is the communication is not happening! | |
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| Are men wired to cheat?
Posted: 3/19/2007 4:06:01 PM | icutegt i like the way you summed it up but you think there is more to human than this flesh. My arguement is more toward people who beleive in no spirit, soul etc.
But the way you put it makes sense. | |
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| Are men wired to cheat?
Posted: 3/19/2007 4:11:02 PM | Ok first woman to post and i disagree. Why do u think people swing? Are they not happy with each other? I know couples who Love each other, True love but they would still sleep with someone else and want to.
That estrogen versue testosterone argument is bogus im sorry i just dont think women have the urge for sex as much as men and therefore cheat less. Yes tons of women cheat but most of the time its cause they arent happy like you said. Alot of happy men cheat because they are driven to want sex with other women..
True story I talked to this female Bodybuilder once who dabbed into steroids.
She took quite a bit of testerone injections. You know what she told me?
If this is what you men go through week in and week out i understand why you are the way you are!!!! I understand why you always want sex and to be with alot of women.
Maybe if women could take a few test shots for a week or so they would realize this lol | |
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| Are men wired to cheat?
Posted: 3/19/2007 4:11:07 PM | icutqt...
i agree with some of what you are saying, however i dont think that our being self-aware comes from any spirituality, i tend to think that it comes from intellect. is someone that is not spiritual, still not self-aware. it is intellect that separates us from the rest of the animal world, and with that intellect urges and instincts can be controlled.
i do agree with your statement the each side keeps the other in balance. | |
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| Are men wired to cheat?
Posted: 3/19/2007 4:17:53 PM | OP...
So are you for cheating or anti cheating?? How does your faith play a role in your decisions?? | |
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| Are men wired to cheat?
Posted: 3/19/2007 4:17:57 PM | As someone who fits this criteria:
It's respect for the relationship. It's respect for the person that you're with.
Relationships for me have always been difficult to come by. They've always been elusive. Both the good and the bad have always been respected....whether they believe that or not.
Relationships have value to me, and it makes me sick to see when someone treats theirs poorly. Like it's expendable. Like they can just up and find someone else. They can find someone else, but you can never find that individual again.
I don't need a God to have ethics, and to treat others fairly and kindly. Because I wouldn't want someone to treat me poorly either. | |
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| Are men wired to cheat?
Posted: 3/19/2007 4:22:02 PM | UB how about people in open relationships? are they wrong? If you truely love someone they are not gonna leave u cause someone else is better in bed.
If you have a man and a woman who both love each other, arent jealous, and agree to see other people on a purely sexual basis whats wrong with that?
If their is no god whose to say your ethics are right and theirs are wrong? Your not perfect and only a perfect being can judge who is right and who is wrong.
Fun i dont cheat. But im not gonna speak bad of men who do cause im not perfect so i shall not judge people on the basis of them liking sex with another adult woman other than who they are with. | |
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| Are men wired to cheat?
Posted: 3/19/2007 4:27:47 PM | i suppose that whatever happens between two consenting adults is their own business. as long as both parties know what the other is doing and approves, it is really only their own business.
that lifestyle is not for me, however, and i wouldnt be with someone that wanted it to be like that. i am not judging anyone for living their life the way they want, just saying it is not for me.
intersting that you use the word cheat to describe it though. true swingers dont consider it cheating. | |
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| Are men wired to cheat?
Posted: 3/19/2007 4:30:31 PM | If both TRULY aren't jealous, and this is something that they want to do, then no, nothing I see wrong with it.
And that also gets into the ethics of swinging and polyamory. This is where you have "the contract". Where all members agree to a condition. If they do not agree to the contract, the contract is void. If everyone is being honest, they will not take any action towards this, which comes back to respecting the relationship.
I do not see it as "cheating", if everyone agrees to it and is honest. | |
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| Are men wired to cheat?
Posted: 3/19/2007 4:39:47 PM | ~OP~ Organized religion does NOT determine the moral or ethical stance of a person. Period.
I live by a very strict code of ethics. My moral fortitude was brutal during my single years. Simply because I chose celibacy while dating. Without love and long term relationship, sex isn't going to happen in my life. I was celibate for well over three-years before I found the ONE person that I felt believed in the same moral/ethical codes as myself.
I don't care what others do ~ I wouldn't promote my choices on anyone. I just know what works for me. And maybe that is why I refuse organized religion. It's not up to me to be better than thou. It is however, up to me to be kind, fair, accepting, tolerant and loving to all others, no matter what their sexual preference, lifestyle choice or religion choice may be. The rest of my life is personal preference. I am only accountable for my actions/reactions and karma will brutalize me if/when I am not being the best person I can be.
As for men being wired to cheat: of course not. We are wired to reproduced. Cheating is a personal choice. Reproduction doesn't have to happen under monogamous terms. I realize most think/believe it is only appropriate under monogamous terms (i.e.: marriage/etc.) but that isn't the way human beings are designed if you truly do believe in evolution.  | |
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| Are men wired to cheat?
Posted: 3/19/2007 4:58:52 PM |
Sex does not = love
If this wasn't the case then why oh why during sex and orgasm are their chemicals released in BOTH the female AND male brain that act as a bonding agent, to make the two feel closer, and ultimately, possibly fall in love....if sex was just sex with no link to love, then these chemicals would not be released to make us feel closer to each other.
This whole thread sounds to me like a way to justify anyone that cheats cause he can't keep it in his pants. I don't believe love would even exist if men's purpose was just to f*ck every female in sight. | |
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bouncr
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Joined: 3/16/2007
Msg: 17 | |
| Are men wired to cheat?
Posted: 3/19/2007 5:07:29 PM | Ive never had sex with someone then fell in love. Love goes far beyond physical touching if thats all you think of love you got it all wrong.
So to Alien space i guess love is just a chemical reaction in the brain. | |
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| Are men wired to cheat?
Posted: 3/19/2007 5:11:13 PM | Im not trying to justify cheating but who are you to say its wrong to want to sleep with lots of women who made you god? If i didnt believe in god and i htought i came from a monkey why is it wrong for me to cheat? huh? Does cheaitng kill anybody> NO, is it againist the law? NO! Is it morally wrong yes/no this can be argued but not proven.
Your the type of person i was really aiming at in this thread.
Sorry sex isnt love sacraficing and going without so the ones you care about can have is love.
Mating System
Main article: Animal sexuality
Monogamy is one of several mating systems observed in animals. The amount of social monogamy in animals varies across taxa, with over 90 percent of birds engaging in social monogamy but only 3 percent of mammals engaging in social monogamy. The amount of sexual monogamy appears quite rare in the animal kingdom. It is becoming clear that even animals that are socially monogamous engage in extra-pair copulations.[1]
So every animal will cheat.
In this day and age with diseases, jealous wives and GUNS I dont think it wise for any man to follow his penis (his favorite organ)
People shouldnt drink, smoke, do drugs but they do. Do you do any of these things? If so thats not wise in many peoples eyes. You can argue evolution wired men to cheat but you can never argue it wired people to smoke and drink. | |
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| Are men wired to cheat?
Posted: 3/19/2007 5:12:41 PM | Certain animals mate for life, I think that negates the belief in a higher power as the reason not to cheat. Just a thought.
Kevin | |
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| Are men wired to cheat?
Posted: 3/19/2007 5:21:19 PM | "As for men being wired to cheat: of course not. We are wired to reproduced. Cheating is a personal choice. "
Greeneyes -- I like how you put this.
I agree that our human-ness, our humanity is what makes us decide our actions. I also agree that men and women are wired completely differently -- for the survival reasons stated above. It's just a fact of our existence that we are constantly trying to balance these forces.
I think the "cheating" aspect of the sex is when lying is involved. If you are sleeping with other women and not lying to the "primary" woman (and, ahem, that includes lying by omission....), then you are not cheating. | |
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| Are men wired to cheat?
Posted: 3/19/2007 5:22:11 PM | This is the first time I have ever posted a forum thingie. I was really trying to find out how you can tell if a guy you want to date on here is lying about being married or in a relationship. I heard once that men, as the evolution theory goes, are programed to procreate and do that as often as possible with as many as possible to populate the earth. Women were not because they were to raise and care for them. In this day and age with diseases, jealous wives and GUNS I dont think it wise for any man to follow his penis (his favorite organ) and put it in such a comprimising "position". Excuse the pun.
As far as love goes, if a man has any respect, or concideration for a woman he cares for, he would not risk hurting her. I always said what I dont know wont hurt me. If a man were to go to great lengths to ensure I never found out then I suppose his satisfying his needs elsewhere wouldnt matter. But if I were to find out.........he would never be able to sleep with his eyes closed again. | |
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| Are men wired to cheat?
Posted: 3/19/2007 5:24:25 PM | Interestinker and interestinker 
You've touched on a couple of things here that would be fun to see further exploration on. One point is spirituality vs spiritual nature. Spirituality is flexible...it is a verb, and refers to how much we employ our spiritual nature. Spiritual nature is something we are born with and can thrive or atrophy according to how we exercise it.
But your point about intellect being the genesis for self awareness has been disproved in studies of other intelligent species, i.e. primates and whales. They have very large brain to body mass ratios, similar to our own. Some can use tools, and others have very complex communications, but none have been proven self aware. Thus many hypotheses that self awareness comes from our spiritual nature.
Not believing in a higher power or Creator, does not refute this theory...it simply changes the terminology. Rather than spirituality you would say consciousness. It's the same thing from different angles. And that is truly what makes us human...our consciousness/spirituality.
I also liked the posting about (paraphrase here) "we are not hardwired to cheat, we are hardwired to reproduce" That is a perfect way of putting it. Whether or not we "cheat" to fulfill that urge to reproduce (as apposed to ACTUALLY reproducing), is a matter of societal influence. It is your culture and society that will determine whether or not it is cheating. Some cultures allow polygamy and some do not. Some areas of the world it is the norm for men to have mistresses and concubines, in others it is not.
It is indeed the difference between testosterone and estrogen that determines our drive...along with dopamine/endorphins, and our response to them. Add psychological ramifications and you can get some seriously whacked (or interesting, depending on how you look at it) ideas of "normal".
Consequently, men are typically more "driven" than women...Yes I do know that there are many exceptions, but we're talking broad spectrum here...and because of this, many more men are prone to "cheating" then are women. And the women that do cheat are, as stated by a previous poster, more likely to do so from emotional and mental dissatisfaction than hormonal drive.
Interestingly, this is a battle that has been going on forever. Men have always had the urge to spread their seed far and wide...women have been the ones that control the situation. It was things like the evolution of the silent estrus that made it so women could have sex often, and men had to stick around to assure impregnation, the shifting of the vagina to a more forward tilting position, which allowed face to face copulation and thus intimacy and bonding, the perpetually inflated breasts, that serve no other purpose (while not being used to nurse), other than to display vitality, fertility, and health...and the list goes on...all coming from the woman’s side, and all designed to keep the man from spreading his seed elsewhere. (Read Helen Fisher's book on "The Evolution of Human Sexuality" if you want to hear more such tricks).
Don't know where that leaves us, but sure does make for some interesting interactions over history.   | |
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| Are men wired to cheat?
Posted: 3/19/2007 5:34:20 PM | I guess this begs to be answered if men arent wired to cheat why do SO many do it even the ones in happy relationships? Come up with another logical explanation.
Cheating causes drama, arguements, split ups why in the world would a man do it if he wasnt driven to by chemical proceses. | |
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| Are men wired to cheat?
Posted: 3/19/2007 5:51:54 PM | but if i beleive i was jsut a souless animal and this is the way i was made by chance why would i not cheat?
for me, it hasnt a single thing to do with god - didnt when I believed; doesnt now when I dont believe. you used the word 'cheat' - cheat on who? oh..I see..cheat on your mate..your partner....your spouse - I get it. well if I get into a situation where I have made a promise to be faithful to one person, I wont cheat - not because of religion but because of my principles and respect for myself and that person. Does that make sense?
I guess this begs to be answered if men arent wired to cheat why do SO many do it even the ones in happy relationships? Come up with another logical explanation I think you needlessly confuse the issue by introducing the word cheat. Start with the basics. men are indeed programmed or hardwired to want/seek/need many partners. its why men can (and do) have casual sex more easily than women. It also is why every man (yes every man) in a committed relationship finds himself lusting after other women - we are programmed to do so. However, whether we act on that or o not is a choice. some choose to act on that and if they have made a promise not to do it are in fact cheating. Others chose not to act on those impulses - either because of religion or personal ethics. we arent wired to cheat - were wired to lust. | |
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| Are men wired to cheat?
Posted: 3/19/2007 6:06:23 PM | Men cheat in part because of biological drive, in part because of societal norms, and in part because they often think they have something to prove. But men do have a choice. They have to choose whether or not to cheat, and that choice is often based on character, upbringing, spirituality/consciousness, and/or environmental influences.
You can really start having fun with this topic when you consider the role societal norms play in cheating. What if we lived in a society where a man's dalliances with woman other than the one he has children with, was considered acceptable, or even desirable?
How many men have thanked Bill Clinton for setting a new standard when he was given a blow job by Monica, and said it was not "sex". Does that now mean that men in the US can have oral sex without being thought of as a cheat? 
What other societal influences can you think of that would cause a paradigm shift in sexual promiscuity and monogamy? | |
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