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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Worm Holes-fact or fiction?      Home login  
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 Love_on_fire
Joined: 12/31/2006
Msg: 1
Worm Holes-fact or fiction?Page 1 of 1    
This is an area that I know has been of much debate as to whether or not the phenomena actually exist.

Here is an interesting article as it pertains to worm holes.


In physics, a wormhole, also known as an Einstein-Rosen bridge (and less commonly as an Einstein-Rosen-Podolsky bridge or Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen bridge), is a hypothetical topological feature of spacetime that is essentially a "shortcut" through space and time.


A wormhole has at least two mouths which are connected to a single throat. Matter can 'travel' from one mouth to the other by passing through the throat.The name "wormhole" comes from the following analogy used to explain the phenomenon: imagine that the universe is the skin of an apple, and a worm is traveling over its surface. The distance from one side of the apple to the other is equal to half the apple's circumference if the worm stays on the apple's surface, but if it instead burrows a wormhole directly through the apple the distance it has to travel is considerably less.

Intra-universe wormholes connect one location of a universe to another location of the same universe. A wormhole should be able to connect distant locations in the universe by bending spacetime, allowing travel between them that is faster than it would take light to make the journey through normal space. See the image above.

Inter-universe wormholes connect one universe with another. This gives rise to the speculation that such wormholes could be used to travel from one parallel universe to another. A wormhole which connects (usually closed) universes is often called a Schwarzschild wormhole.

Another application of a wormhole might be time travel. In that case it is a shortcut from one point in space and time to another. In string theory a wormhole has been envisioned to connect two D-branes, where the mouths are attached to the branes and are connected by a flux tube. Finally, wormholes are believed to be a part of spacetime foam.

There are two main types of wormholes: Lorentzian wormholes and Euclidean wormholes. Lorentzian wormholes are mainly studied in semiclassical gravity and Euclidean wormholes are studied in particle physics. Traversable wormholes are a special kind of Lorentzian wormholes which would allow a human to travel from one side of the wormhole to the other.

Serguei V. Krasnikov tossed the term spacetime shortcut as a more general term for (traversable) wormholes and propulsion systems like the Alcubierre drive and the Krasnikov tube to indicate hyperfast interstellar travel.

It is unknown whether (Lorentzian) wormholes are possible or not within the framework of general relativity. Most known solutions of general relativity which allow for wormholes require the existence of exotic matter, a theoretical substance which has negative energy density. However, it has not been mathematically proven that this is an absolute requirement for wormholes, nor has it been established that exotic matter cannot exist. Recently Amos Ori envisioned a wormhole which allowed time travel, did not require any exotic matter, and satisfied the weak, dominant, and strong energy conditions. Since there is no established theory of quantum gravity, it is impossible to say with any certainty whether wormholes are possible or not within that theoretical framework.

It is unknown whether (Lorentzian) wormholes are possible or not within the framework of general relativity. Most known solutions of general relativity which allow for wormholes require the existence of exotic matter, a theoretical substance which has negative energy density. However, it has not been mathematically proven that this is an absolute requirement for wormholes, nor has it been established that exotic matter cannot exist. Recently Amos Ori envisioned a wormhole which allowed time travel, did not require any exotic matter, and satisfied the weak, dominant, and strong energy conditions. Since there is no established theory of quantum gravity, it is impossible to say with any certainty whether wormholes are possible or not within that theoretical framework.

Lorentzian traversable wormholes would allow travel from one part of the universe to another part of that same universe very quickly or would allow travel from one universe to another universe. Because wormholes not only connect spatial locations they would also allow time travel.

Often there is confusion about the idea that wormholes allow superluminal (faster-than-light) space travel. In fact there is no real superluminal travel involved. Assume that the wormhole connects two remote locations. While traveling through a wormhole subluminal (slower-than-light) speeds can be used. The time in which the distance was traveled would appear faster than it would take light to make the journey through normal space.

A wormhole could potentially allow time travel. This could be accomplished by accelerating one end of the wormhole relative to the other, and then sometime later bringing it back; relativistic time dilation would result in less time having passed for the accelerated wormhole mouth compared to the stationary one, meaning that anything which entered the stationary wormhole mouth would exit the accelerated one at a point in time prior to its entry.

The path through such a wormhole is called a closed timelike curve, and a wormhole with this property is sometimes referred to as a "timehole."It is thought that it may not be possible to convert a wormhole into a time machine in this manner, however; some mathematical models indicate that a feedback loop of virtual particles would circulate through the timehole with ever-increasing intensity, destroying it before any information could be passed through it.

This has been called into question by the suggestion that radiation would disperse after traveling through the wormhole, therefore preventing infinite accumulation. There is also the Roman ring, which is a very stable configuration of more than one wormhole.

This ring allows a closed time loop with stable wormholes. The debate on this matter is described by Kip S. Thorne in the book Black Holes and Time Warps, and will likely require a theory of quantum gravity to resolve.Many physicists, including Stephen Hawking, believe that due to the problems a wormhole would theoretically create, including allowing time travel, that something fundamental in the laws of physics would prohibit them.

However, this remains speculation, and the notion that nature would censor inconvenient objects has already failed in the case of the cosmic censorship principle.

Wormholes known as Schwarzschild wormholes are theoretical bridges between areas of space that are thought to be found in the center of a black hole and white hole, joining two universes. They exist in solutions to Einstein's equations, and are thought to be extremely unstable, and would instantly fall apart once created. Some speculation exists that quasars are actually white holes instead of supermassive black holes.

It is impossible for a traveller to go through this type of wormhole because they can only go through a horizon in one direction. If the traveler is formed of non-exotic matter once they reach the center of the Schwarzschild wormhole then, they can't leave the other side, and they can't leave through where they came since the side they came in though was a black hole, meaning nothing can escape it once inside the Schwarzschild radius.

Wormholes are also a feature of science fiction.

They are a centerpiece of Carl Sagan's novel Contact, for which Kip Thorne advised Sagan on the possibilities of wormholes.

Wormholes are also the principal means of space travel in the Stargate movie and the spin-off television series, Stargate SG-1 and Stargate Atlantis. The central plot device of the programs is a transportation network consisting of the ring-shaped devices known as Stargates, which generate wormholes that allow one-way matter transmission between gates when the correct spatial coordinates are "dialed".


What do you people think about these and do you think they may exist or be produced somehow.?
 nipoleon
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 2
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Worm Holes-fact or fiction?
Posted: 3/25/2007 1:42:32 AM
I think a better way to think about wormholes is to imagine a partially filled balloon.
In order to travel from one side of the balloon to the other one could travel around the surface of the balloon.
But, if you take your finger and poke into the balloon so that the skin of the balloon stretches inward through to the other side, through the middle of the balloon.
Your finger poking into the balloon would be similar to the same thing massive bodies do to space by way of gravity.
So by manipulating gravity and somehow creating a strong enough gravitational field it would be possible to create a wormhole to any place in the universe you want to go.
How do you manipulate gravity ? I don't know.
 ruckus123
Joined: 6/7/2005
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Worm Holes-fact or fiction?
Posted: 3/25/2007 6:25:10 AM
The balloon theory can not work because to get from one place to the other by going through a balloon you would still be stuck. To actually get through to the other side the balloon would pop.

 Mr. Mad Scientist
Joined: 1/30/2007
Msg: 4
Worm Holes-fact or fiction?
Posted: 3/25/2007 8:47:14 PM
I remember reading a while back that some scientists had actually used the casimir effect to "transport" an electron across their laboratory. They had two sets of plates and when they fired the electron between the first set, it emerged from between the second set. This seemed to give credibility to the actual existence of wormholes.

I've been looking for the article online, but I can't seem to find it. Maybe it was a fake?

Does anyone else have any information about this?
 MrGuyCaballero
Joined: 2/27/2007
Msg: 5
Worm Holes-fact or fiction?
Posted: 3/26/2007 2:49:22 PM
This may or may not be splitting hairs, but I believe they described what they'd done as destroying the electron in one place and instantaneously creating it's duplicate in another.
 Mr. Mad Scientist
Joined: 1/30/2007
Msg: 6
Worm Holes-fact or fiction?
Posted: 3/26/2007 6:00:05 PM
No, if that's what they're doing then it most likely isn't wormhole related.

Darn. I guess it's still a pretty exciting thing, but I really wanted wormholes
 Augiedougie
Joined: 1/10/2007
Msg: 7
Worm Holes-fact or fiction?
Posted: 3/26/2007 6:40:23 PM
I don't doubt worm holes exist but according to the mathematics describing them they are extremely unstable and subject to collapse if 'normal' matter approaches them.
 2findU
Joined: 11/19/2005
Msg: 8
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Worm Holes-fact or fiction?
Posted: 3/27/2007 11:23:43 AM
I would say they are just theoretical at this point. Unlike "black holes" wormholes have not been found. They work great in Sci-Fi and its possible there may be wormholes is space, but we are not likely to find out because we haven't found any to send a probe too whic would probably be too many light years away. At out present technology one light year is too many. And if a probe went through successfully or not, how could we find out?
 Love_on_fire
Joined: 12/31/2006
Msg: 9
Worm Holes-fact or fiction?
Posted: 3/27/2007 11:49:47 AM
I think some problems people have with this is that for there to be a worm hole tehre would also have to be a so called "white hole" opposite from "black hole" as opposed to sucking in everything a "white hole" spits out everything and nothing can ever enter into it.

So the worm hole would consist of a "black hole" and a "white hole" .

Obviously we havn't seen any "white holes" because one would suggest that a phenomena like a white hole would be detected somehow based on it's description. If a whote hole would be to spitting out things what a black hole is to sucking in, then surely such an object would have been discovered, no?
 rockondon
Joined: 2/21/2007
Msg: 10
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Worm Holes-fact or fiction?
Posted: 3/27/2007 11:47:08 PM

I think a better way to think about wormholes is to imagine a partially filled balloon.
In order to travel from one side of the balloon to the other one could travel around the surface of the balloon.
But, if you take your finger and poke into the balloon so that the skin of the balloon stretches inward through to the other side, through the middle of the balloon.

or how about an apple. and a worm. And instead of the worm crawling all the way around the apple, it burrows a hole through the center. Now we just have to come up with a name for this worm hole...
 2findU
Joined: 11/19/2005
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Worm Holes-fact or fiction?
Posted: 3/28/2007 5:36:10 AM

or how about an apple. and a worm. And instead of the worm crawling all the way around the apple, it burrows a hole through the center. Now we just have to come up with a name for this worm hole...


Actually you analogy is most accurate. That is the reason the are called "worm holes".
 rockondon
Joined: 2/21/2007
Msg: 12
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Worm Holes-fact or fiction?
Posted: 3/28/2007 8:46:00 AM

Actually you analogy is most accurate. That is the reason the are called "worm holes".

yeah I know, I was being facetious.
I did a report on wormholes in physics class last year.
 Love_on_fire
Joined: 12/31/2006
Msg: 13
Worm Holes-fact or fiction?
Posted: 3/28/2007 9:05:13 AM
Here is a brief article


The Schwarzschild metric admits negative square root as well as positive square root solutions for the geometry.

The complete Schwarzschild geometry consists of a black hole, a white hole, and two Universes connected at their horizons by a wormhole.

The negative square root solution inside the horizon represents a white hole. A white hole is a black hole running backwards in time. Just as black holes swallow things irretrievably, so also do white holes spit them out. White holes cannot exist, since they violate the second law of thermodynamics.

General Relativity is time symmetric. It does not know about the second law of thermodynamics, and it does not know about which way cause and effect go. But we do.

The negative square root solution outside the horizon represents another Universe. The wormhole joining the two separate Universes is known as the Einstein-Rosen bridge.


So this Worm hole has a scientific name to it called the"Einstein-Rosen Bridge" and yet another name they use is the "Schwarzschild bridge"
 Love_on_fire
Joined: 12/31/2006
Msg: 14
Worm Holes-fact or fiction?
Posted: 3/28/2007 9:05:33 AM
Here is a brief article


The Schwarzschild metric admits negative square root as well as positive square root solutions for the geometry.

The complete Schwarzschild geometry consists of a black hole, a white hole, and two Universes connected at their horizons by a wormhole.

The negative square root solution inside the horizon represents a white hole. A white hole is a black hole running backwards in time. Just as black holes swallow things irretrievably, so also do white holes spit them out. White holes cannot exist, since they violate the second law of thermodynamics.

General Relativity is time symmetric. It does not know about the second law of thermodynamics, and it does not know about which way cause and effect go. But we do.

The negative square root solution outside the horizon represents another Universe. The wormhole joining the two separate Universes is known as the Einstein-Rosen bridge.


So this Worm hole has a scientific name to it called the"Einstein-Rosen Bridge" and yet another name they use is the "Schwarzschild bridge"
 MrGuyCaballero
Joined: 2/27/2007
Msg: 15
Worm Holes-fact or fiction?
Posted: 3/28/2007 2:43:08 PM
I don't think it'd necessarily have to be a black hole/white hole path. If it were, then it wouldn't be a viable means of traveling because anything going through would be ripped apart.
 Love_on_fire
Joined: 12/31/2006
Msg: 16
Worm Holes-fact or fiction?
Posted: 3/28/2007 3:09:56 PM
^^ but also there is no evidence that a "white hole" exists.
 lookingforsophia
Joined: 3/3/2009
Msg: 17
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Worm Holes-fact or fiction?
Posted: 4/4/2012 2:43:25 PM
Now, Once I flew a Saucer thru a Worm Hole

I'd sure let ya'll know how it went;

if I weren't a Bowl of Angel Hair Spagettiiiiiii............

Perhaps some day you'll get the last message I sent
BIG GRAVITY ain't such a witch; jest watch out for her Gradient
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