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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 4/19/2007 12:48:08 AM | | I do throughly believe that back before we were so politaically correct as a society that we raised much better children. Once you are not allowed to spank your kids and they can not bow their head at school for fear of offending someone we started raising hodlums. They have no respect cause they have never seen a belt much less that paddle that Mr. Dikens ( a teacher (not principle) at a school that I attended) had. One lick from that thing and you remebered what you got the last time you got that. If you really look at it from this point of view the why should they care if they get in trouble, what is one hour after school, just extra time with your friends. I guess we are headed for a country of ill mannered kids, with no religion for fear of offending someone who came to our country. And we wonder why our schools are getting shot up! | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 4/19/2007 1:06:42 AM | spankings and prayer in school don't deter violence, they increase it.
Spankings are largely ineffective, and they teach children that violence is an acceptable way to deal with people.
Praying for one religion insults the others. Such blatant disregard for others would invariably lead to more violence. | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 4/19/2007 1:13:05 AM | | I don't have children so I might be speaking out of turn here but shouldn't religion and discipline be handled at home? Are you relying on school to raise kids? Weird, I thought school was about education. | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 4/19/2007 1:43:27 AM | | I think parents should spank their kids while they pray in school. Then use the strap while they recite the pledge of allegiance. | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 4/19/2007 3:51:29 AM | | Yes ,there was no violence years ago and of course the only people that can have good values have to be religious. Kids these days are all a bad bunch, maby a handful of good ones. | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 4/19/2007 5:44:06 AM | Oh, of course. Because the system that glorfies sports over intelligence (the one that DIRECTLY led to Columbine) just appeared over night. 
I've got this kooky idea. Maybe parents ought to get involved more, hm? Stop puting the entirety of responsibility on the schools, it's not their fault. Schools shouldn't be responsible for disciplining kids, nor for indoctrinating them religiously. Parents ought to do both, and let the schools just teach them facts. | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 4/19/2007 6:28:11 AM | ^^^agree with you
Back in the day, I got "the strap" more often than not. It involved a huge rigamarole that made the strapee the object of derision and shame. For such heinous acts as whispering, of all things. Then, of course they called your parents, who further spanked you. God, what a barbaric system they all bought into back then.
Then one day, I came home with welts from a particularly evil child hating teacher. My mother was shocked and actually took time off work to complain. She was immediately ostracised too. But the bottom line was, if you touch my daughter one more time, I will sue your asses. Miraculously, the beatings stopped, and angry phone calls to my parents did as well. And I continued to be a straight A student....hmmmm
And don't even get me going about school prayers. I asked one teacher why we said them. She told me that this country was founded by Christians, and if we didn't thank God, the commies would get us. I never forgot that.
As I grew older and more informed, I always thought of this particular teacher, Mrs. Luft. And I thought that she was probably the stupidest teacher I have ever known. Christians founded this country? As I have always been visibly Native, it struck me how intently she tried to put me in my place.
I believe that the values that I have come to believe in were instilled in me by my parents, not the school system, and thank God for that. And that's where it begins, at home. The school system is for learning, and teaching kids how to get along with each other within basic common sense principles. Just my humble opinion.
Cheers, Raven | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 4/19/2007 6:40:23 AM | I've changed my mind, I think kids should learn about death too. I mean prayer in school advocates and spanking advocates are usually pro capital punishment too right? How about we execute a kid every year in front of everybody, you know.. for doing something, make it so every time you get a detention your name is put in the lottery or something. End of the year somebodies name gets drawn.
I mean hell, I'd avoid detention like a mad man if it avoided the chance of summary execution at year end right? I bet our kids would be so much better behaved.
Then they could like pray for the dead kid in class.
I mean the best ideas are the old one no? Who doesn't like an old school human scapegoat. | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 4/19/2007 7:24:57 AM | guns, kids, and prayer are a really bad combination.
lets ban ALL three, for a quiter, more sustainable, and rational world. | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 4/19/2007 10:20:45 AM | johnnny, I don't agree with your statement. I think the kids today are just as good as they were 30 years ago. The problem is the way the parents are forced to raise their kids. In todays world you can't spank your kid because it's child abuse, you can't yell at your kid because it's verbal abuse, you can't send your kid to bed without dinner because it's neglect. Also, if you notice most families today are two income families, so when both parents are working 5 days sometimes more a week they can't put the full effort into raising their children like in the past. I think it's changed for the worse and has made it more challenging for parents to raise children. I was raised with spankings and a wooden spoon, but it was done at home not in school, I was there to learn and if I screwed around in school my father would hear about it and he would do the punishing, I learned my lesson quick.
Spankings should be the responsibility of the parents, the teachers have enough to do giving these kids an educaton. Prayer should be allowed anywhere, saying you can't pray in school is like saying you can't pray while you're in the mall because you might offend someone. | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 4/19/2007 10:59:56 AM |
you can't yell at your kid because it's verbal abuse
if this is true, then every parent in existence should be punished.
saying you can't pray in school
nobody is saying that.
When I was a kid the entire class had to say the Lord's prayer each morning. I believe the OP would like to bring that back. | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 4/19/2007 11:42:15 AM | rockondon, you should really put my entire comment in your post before making your own comment about it. It should say:
Saying you can't pray in school is like saying you can't pray in the mall because you might offend someone.
I'm not saying we shouldn't bring it back, in fact my comment agrees with the OP and being able to pray in school. Thanks. | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 4/19/2007 12:45:09 PM |
Saying you can't pray in school is like saying you can't pray in the mall because you might offend someone.
nobody is saying you can't pray in school.
Is that better? I like to keep quotations concise - I quoted what was pertinent.
I'm not saying we shouldn't bring it back, in fact my comment agrees with the OP and being able to pray in school. Thanks.
That much was apparent.
Its perfectly legal to pray in school so you aren't advocating for kids to be 'able' to pray, what you want is to have prayers forced on other children. There's a world of difference there.
The ones who want the Lord's prayer in schools are often the same ones who would be up in arms if anyone even suggested prayers to Allah or Brahman or Vishnu or any other deity be imposed on their children. Such hypocrisy, bigotry, and intolerance would invariably lead to increased violence in schools.
Incidentally, there's a strong correlation between religiosity and high crime rates. | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 4/19/2007 4:19:12 PM | Spanking and prayer in school are two complete seperate issues.
Everyone.....students and staff are allowed, and have always been allowed to pray in school. However, school-led prayers are not allowed....where the staff lead the prayers or tell you that you will "Go to Hell" if you don't get your work done. Students are allowed to form student-led prayer groups or religious study groups......however......they MUST be student-led. Teachers and other staff are agents of our government, and cannot endorse, promote or support one religion....or say that one is better than another......or say that you will "Go to Hell" if you are not Christian. Students are allowed to wear religious symbols.....from Crosses, to Ankhs, to Pentacles, to the Star of David to Thor Hammers, etc. They are allowed to pray at lunch before a meal, before a test(quickly), or in the hall during the time between classes. They may incoporate their religion into their art, creative writing, or any other class where they are free to express themself. Teachers and staff are allowed to wear religious symbols the same as students, and they are allowed to have something on their personal bookbag, purse or satchel. They may have a religious book/text/etc. on their desk so long as it's NOT facing the class. They may NOT have religious items/texts/etc. scattered about the room or hanging on the wall/ceiling......UNLESS......the class is studying the Bible or it's a "World Religions" class. Teachers and Staff members are free to pray before a meal, during their prep time, before or after school, or basicly any time when they are on personal time. If the school has a "Casual Friday", where staff are allowed to dress in jeans/sweat shirts, they may wear a religious-themed shirt, so long as it's not offensive to people of another faith, or those who are not religious. For more on this, check the ACLU or Americans for Seperation of Churh & State websites.
Now.....regarding spanking.......you, as a teacher, may defend yourself or another student if someone is physically attacking either you or the other person. However, the use of force for punishment has been done away with, which I have mixed feelings on. Yes, there were teachers/staff members who abused this right......BUT......when a third grader is allowed to tell you to "F***-OFF!" out on the playground because you asked him to get down from something he should have been climbing on(This happened to me when I worked as a Substitute Teacher)......OR when a 16 y/o calls you a GDSOB and spits in your face in front of the HS Principal(This also happened to me).......and all you can do is either give the third grader a "time out" or suspend the 16 y/o.......SOMETHING is not right with that picture. Kids are allowed to get away with waaaaaaaaaaay too much crap in schools now, as they no that nothing, or very little will happen to them......and this needs to stop. Teachers and staff MUST be allowed to disipline students again in the maner they need to be delt with. If I had told anyone to "F****-OFF!" when I was that age......I shudder to think what would have happened! Sorry, but the reason kids are shooting kids or raping, or stabbing......is because society is out of control. Look at all the crap that is being put out.....from the Video Games, to Music, to TV to the Movies.........most of what our young people see is violence today. How many of you grew up in the 70's??? Remember how "normal" life was then?? Nobody had a damn cellphone, and kids certainlly didn't have one!! Sorry, but I feel that no-one under the age of 18 should be allowed to have one, and furthermore.....you should have a licence/permit for one.......as you need one to drive, carry a gun, get married, etc. Our children don't need cell-phones......and they sure the heck don't need to put their number's on their BEBO accounts......but.......that's a whole other issue. [RANT OFF] | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 4/19/2007 7:00:42 PM | I knew this post was going to get negative feed back but wow, I can not believe their the enormous response to defind all the other religions when in the old days you went to school during the week and went to the same building on Sunday for Church. I know that this is 2007 and not 1907 but I sure wish i could have lived back then some times. Things were so simple. Most everyone then was a Christian and if you was not it was not made so obvious to people.
I am by no means saying that school should be the main place for discipline and by far not the main place for religion. My children are not raised by the teachers but if you really think about it they do spend more time with the teachers during the week than they do with the family: Up at 6, to school by 7:30, home at 3:30, dinner at 5:30 and bed at 8:30. Now I am not a mathmatician by any means but to me that means they spend 8 hours a day at school and 6 and a half hours at home (awake hours). | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 4/19/2007 7:18:33 PM | | And I long for the day when people of ALL faiths/religions/non can live in peace w/o some making the rest of us feel like shit becuase we are not Christian. Yes, many of our Founding Fathers were Christian.......but the Native peoples were not.....until it was forced upon them. Your children are free to pray to the Christian God......but......my sons pray to Thor, Odin, Freya, Frigga and the rest of the Norse gods and goddesses, so why the blazes should they be forced to sit there and be Preached to in a Public School?? Sorry, but it IS 2007........NOT 1907.....when those of us who were NOT Christian had no Freedom of Religion. JMO | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 4/19/2007 7:41:45 PM | And I long for the day when people of ALL faiths/religions/non can live in peace w/o some making the rest of us feel like shit becuase we are not Christian.
Thor I do as well wish all religions could get along and live in peace but if you go through and read the most of the post it is not the worshippers Thor, Aili (however it is spelled), Buddah, etc that receive the most ridcule. It is anyone in that is a Christian. (Read the post we are downed constantly for what we choose to believe.
I do Love my God as I have the right, you also have the right to love what ever God you choose.
When I was in school it was a minute of silence. You could pray to who ever you wanted to in that minute now the kids do not even have that! | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 4/19/2007 8:32:49 PM | Oooh, a fun one!
I do throughly believe that back before we were so politaically correct as a society that we raised much better children. I salute you for holding a firm belief, even though it's one with which I entirely disagree.
Once you are not allowed to spank your kids and they can not bow their head at school for fear of offending someone we started raising hodlums. Ah. You're unaware of the law. Thaat's what it is. Okay, here's the deal: You can spank your kids, just not beat them into submission. It's a parent's right to enforce discipline, but not abuse. Have fun finding the distinction. As for whether or not children can pray in schools, they certainly can. They just can't be forced by the teachers or other school faculty to do so.
They have no respect cause they have never seen a belt much less that paddle... Actually, I would say that they've less respect because they're not taught to respect. 'Course, you know, "spare the belt" and all. Here's a wild idea, though. As a parent, it's one's right/duty to discipline one's own children, yes? How 'bout doing so? Along with, of course, teaching them what respect means. If someone wants to leave that up to the schools, and it's not happening there, who's responsibility is it, if the kid turns out a hoodlum?
One lick from that thing and you remebered what you got the last time you got that. Simple Pavlovian behavioural enforcement. Nice. Why instill actual "morality", when you can just get the kid to fear the rod, yeah?
If you really look at it from this point of view the why should they care if they get in trouble, what is one hour after school, just extra time with your friends. Unless, of course, they're not just left in a room with their friends...
I guess we are headed for a country of ill mannered kids, with no religion for fear of offending someone who came to our country. Well, if school's the only place they teach manners... As for offending someone, I was born here. Go ahead and pray, it's no skin off me. But, you wanna make me pray to your god in a state institution, I'm gonna have a problem with it, dig? And, no, that's not me "taking offence", that's me standing up for my right to freedom of religion. Sorry, them's the breaks.
And we wonder why our schools are getting shot up! I don't wonder about that so much as how parents can be so oblivious to their kids that such things occur.
spankings and prayer in school don't deter violence, they increase it If by "increasing it" you mean that it's violence from the teachers aimed at the kids, I agree.
Spankings are largely ineffective, and they teach children that violence is an acceptable way to deal with people. Except if the kids are taught to realise that it's done out of moral authority and to teach them a lesson. I was spanked like a proverbial "red-headed stepchild" when I was a kid, and I don't have any compulsions to use violence to make a point. 'Course, if you don't see where I'm coming from, I could always come over there and "pound the point in". 
I don't have children so I might be speaking out of turn here but shouldn't religion and discipline be handled at home? Sorry, "out of turn" or not, common sense is a good thing. Good call.
Because the system that glorfies sports over intelligence (the one that DIRECTLY led to Columbine) just appeared over night. Thank you, Trippy. Both my parents taught, and I've actually considered doing the same thing, but when you realise it's more important (ie, gets the school more grant money) to win sports competitions than to actually teach the kids to excell at anything, it's tough to justify wasting all that effort.
Then, of course they called your parents, who further spanked you. God, what a barbaric system they all bought into back then. Yup. Good to know we live in much more enlightened times, now that folks just complain that the schools aren't raising their kids right.
Miraculously, the beatings stopped, and angry phone calls to my parents did as well. And I continued to be a straight A student.... Truly amazing.
And don't even get me going about school prayers. I asked one teacher why we said them. She told me that this country was founded by Christians, and if we didn't thank God, the commies would get us. Haha! Nice! Supernatural bribery, too!
As I have always been visibly Native, it struck me how intently she tried to put me in my place. Yes, it has always been the "white man's burden" to teach the people of the world the evils that come of not praying to their god, being left alone physically, and not being the white man.
The problem is the way the parents are forced to raise their kids. In todays world you can't spank your kid because it's child abuse... Really? Where?
Also, if you notice most families today are two income families, so when both parents are working 5 days sometimes more a week they can't put the full effort into raising their children like in the past. Sounds like it's time for some parents to reconsider their priorities, you ask me.
I think it's changed for the worse and has made it more challenging for parents to raise children. I would concede that point, if I didn't know far too many parents who are "busy at the office" all the time, working to pay off their "brand-new car!!", their rent-a-centre widescreen plasma television, their trip to Tahiti (during which the kids stayed with relatives), and other "necessities". Sorry, doesn't wash. Seen "Pursuit of Happyness", yet? There's a dedicated parent.
Prayer should be allowed anywhere, saying you can't pray in school is like saying you can't pray while you're in the mall because you might offend someone. And, wonder of wonders! Prayer is allowed pretty much anywhere, just so long as it doesn't include ritual sacrifices of live animals or excessive trappings. Interesting point that gets missed in a lot of the outcry over people "not allowing prayer in school" is that it's not disallowing prayer. It's forbidding the teachers, representatives of a state institution, to enforce their religion on the students. Is that a bad thing? Only for those who used to claim the privilege of indoctrinating everyone else's children when they were a captive audience.
If you want your children to pray in school don't send them to public, simple really. Or, tell 'em to go ahead and pray, as long as they're not being disruptive. What's the teacher gonna do? Beat 'em?
Personally I think they should do away with the catholic schools and just have one school system..money would be equally spent at every school and instead of having to choose which board to support, you could support all of them. Monopolies foster decreased quality, for one. Beyond that, Catholic and parochial schools don't fall under the state's purview, and for good reason.
In my opinion, the religion should be left up to the parents to teach. I'm Buddhist and I don't rely on anyone else to teach my children about it but myself. We have landed on the planet, and there is intelligent life! 
When I was a kid the entire class had to say the Lord's prayer each morning. I believe the OP would like to bring that back. Thank the gods for the ACLU!
I'm not saying we shouldn't bring it back, in fact my comment agrees with the OP and being able to pray in school. Problem with that is, you already can. No one's taking away that freedom, in fact they're granting it further by denying teachers the authority to force students to pray.
Such hypocrisy, bigotry, and intolerance would invariably lead to increased violence in schools. Or, at least on school boards. Maybe that's how they ought to be appointed; the person who's god gives them the most power in mortal combat gets to decide what schoolkids have to do...?
For more on this, check the ACLU or Americans for Seperation of Churh & State websites. This man deserves a 
Kids are allowed to get away with waaaaaaaaaaay too much crap in schools now, as they no that nothing, or very little will happen to them......and this needs to stop. I agree. Kids can "get away" with a lot more than they should. 'Course, if the teacher refuses to let the kid back into class, refuses to teach the kid, or if it otherwise reflects on his/her grade, well, the parents find out, and...
Sorry, but the reason kids are shooting kids or raping, or stabbing......is because society is out of control. Again, my feeling is that's on the parents. Is it the schools' responsibility to teach morality? Certainly not. So, perhaps kids need to be getting a respect for life and property from their parents. Just a thought.
[RANT OFF] Darn. I was enjoying that.
...I can not believe their the enormous response to defind all the other religions when in the old days you went to school during the week and went to the same building on Sunday for Church. Sorry, we're not living in the 1800s. Unfortunate, perhaps, but there it is.
I sure wish i could have lived back then some times. Things were so simple. Yup. Sooo simple. Your parents decided whom you married, all the "mud races" "knew their place", women couldn't vote... It was a friggin' paradise, man.
Most everyone then was a Christian and if you was not it was not made so obvious to people. And, yet, the religious intolerance was still there. Go figure...
...but if you really think about it they do spend more time with the teachers during the week than they do with the family... Unless you homeschool.
but to me that means they spend 8 hours a day at school and 6 and a half hours at home (awake hours). During the week. And, during which hours, the kids aren't getting religious indoctrination or "healthy" beatings. We save that for the weekend... 
And I long for the day when people of ALL faiths/religions/non can live in peace w/o some making the rest of us feel like shit becuase we are not Christian. Man, I almost wanna convert to your faith. 
Yes, many of our Founding Fathers were Christian... And, many of them weren't (believe it... or not!). Oh, yeah. And none of them would have fit the modern mould of Christianity.
...but if you go through and read the most of the post it is not the worshippers Thor, Aili (however it is spelled), Buddah, etc that receive the most ridcule Who receives ridicule? Other, that is, than those who would like to reinstitute public beatings and religious intolerance in our nation's educational institutions, that is.
(Read the post we are downed constantly for what we choose to believe.
Which one is that?
When I was in school it was a minute of silence. You could pray to who ever you wanted to in that minute now the kids do not even have that! Because the educators do not have the authority to ask children to engage in religious observances. For my part, a "moment of silence" at the beginning of class would be fine, but it couldn't be with explicit regard to religion.
Won't someone please answer my question?? Is there Catholic schools in the states? Or is it just public? Yes, there are Catholic and parochial schools, as well as homeschooling. I thought you were aware, sorry. | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 4/19/2007 11:13:14 PM | They have no respect cause they have never seen a belt
Spanking is a controversial topic, but I beleive it has NO place in schools. Your children are sent to school to learn things like English, Math, Science, etc, not to be physically disciplined.
with no religion for fear of offending someone who came to our country.
Religion doesn't have a place in school IMO. Again, religion is something personal, between one person and their God. It shouldn't be up to the school to enforce that, especially since the religion you speak of is solely christianity. How would you feel as a christian if everyday your kid went to school they prayed from the Koran? You'd probably be against it, so why should children go to school and have to pray from The Bible?
And we wonder why our schools are getting shot up!
Let's look at gun control before we look at religion. Let's look at Government enforced background checks in regards to purchasing weapons, before we look at religion. Let's look at the mental background of people committing such horrific crimes, before we look at religion.
Spankings are largely ineffective, and they teach children that violence is an acceptable way to deal with people.
I disagree. I think spankings work for some children and not others, as well as spankings sometimes fit the punishment whereas other times it doesn't. Take for example a kid that is generally passive, they would probably respond to "sitting in the corner" for their punishment, better than a child that's completely agressive. I have no problem with spankings (when warrented) but I don't beleive in beatings. And spankings should only be done on the butt.
My father used the belt on me when I was younger, my mother used a "switch" (just a twig from a tree, that she'd make us pick off ourselves), and I think myself and my brothers turned out just fine. We all hate violence, we don't think violence is acceptable, my one brother chooses to spank his daughter if it's warrented, while my other brother doesn't discipline his children at all. And let me tell you, the one that spanks his child when needed has a very well behaved kid, the other? Hellions.
Praying for one religion insults the others. Such blatant disregard for others would invariably lead to more violence.
Yes, I agree with this entirely. Again, if the Koran was the main religious text in school, there would be many christians outraged.
I'm confused at the people who complain that religion isn't allowed in schools. Don't you have public and catholic schools in the States? If you want your children to pray in school don't send them to public, simple really.
Exactly. My mother sent me to an all christian school when I was younger. Sure it's privatized so she had to pay for me to go, but if you are that much against how the public ciriculum is, you have 2 options, take your child out and pay for them to attend the school of their choice, or homeschool them.
As a parent, it's one's right/duty to discipline one's own children, yes? How 'bout doing so? Along with, of course, teaching them what respect means.
Bravo!!! If someone feels that discipline needs to be carried through to school, you must not be doing too good a job at home in fear that those 6 hrs your kids are away from you, they will suddenly become "hoodlums".
Except if the kids are taught to realise that it's done out of moral authority and to teach them a lesson. I was spanked like a proverbial "red-headed stepchild" when I was a kid, and I don't have any compulsions to use violence to make a point
Same here. There's a difference in beating your child and spanking your child, there is also a great difference in spanking your child and telling them why they are being spanked, or simply saying "you were bad". Kids are alot more intelligent than you give them credit for. BTW to me a spanking is 1 or 2 smacks on the bottom.
Also, if you notice most families today are two income families, so when both parents are working 5 days sometimes more a week they can't put the full effort into raising their children like in the past.
Well...than they should have thought about that before going off the ole birth control now shouldn't they? Or as the poster below said...
Sounds like it's time for some parents to reconsider their priorities, you ask me
Or, tell 'em to go ahead and pray, as long as they're not being disruptive. What's the teacher gonna do? Beat 'em?
They just might....if they aren't praying to the christian God.
Kids are allowed to get away with waaaaaaaaaaay too much crap in schools now, as they no that nothing, or very little will happen to them......and this needs to stop.
Yes they do..But, a school should not be expected to or allowed to physically discipline a child. Sadly if you expell a child, to them it's just some free days away from where they most likely don't want to be anyways. So what does it leave a school to do? Give a child detention, or expell them. Obviously if they are acting out in school, being disruptive, have real anger issues, etc...that doesn't come from school. That's coming from within themselves and/or within their home. Nowhere else.
Yup. Sooo simple. Your parents decided whom you married, all the "mud races" "knew their place", women couldn't vote... It was a friggin' paradise, man.
LOL Ya know if people want to live in "simplier" times, you can move to places like Tennesee, or some places in Africa.. **Edit** I wrote TN before I even read your profile OP lol
...but if you go through and read the most of the post it is not the worshippers Thor, Aili (however it is spelled), Buddah, etc that receive the most ridcule
Let's stop playing the victim shall we? Christians feel they get "the most ridicule", and atheists feel the same, and those that are wiccan and those that are jewish, etc. The bottom line is, if someone doesn't beleive how you do, you generally will view their practice of their religion as invasive if it isn't confined to 4 walls. The thing is christians dont view themselves as being invasive, they simply view themselves as being "messangers of God", doing his work. And when someone of a different faith points that out, christians view that as invasive and ridicule.
Of course....the following is good too:
Who receives ridicule? Other, that is, than those who would like to reinstitute public beatings and religious intolerance in our nation's educational institutions, that is.
When I was in school it was a minute of silence. You could pray to who ever you wanted to in that minute now the kids do not even have that!
I'm only 27, and I remember in Grade 3 (so that was what...19 or so years ago) that we prayed every morning in school (Public school), and those whose parents didn't agree with it (meaning they were of different faiths) were told to exit the classroom. How fair is that, to tell a kid to leave every morning? How fair is it to make a child partake of a religious reading or prayer when they don't want to, or don't believe it? It's not.
BTW OP, I read something in your profile that really worries me, you said:
I do love GOD and he comes first even before my children if that is a turn off to you have a great day.
Wow...putting anything above your children (especially a God who in the end may not exsist) I simply have no words for...and leaving me speechless, is quite the accomplishment. | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 4/19/2007 11:15:03 PM | I think discipline shuld be handled at home for sure. If teachers have the authority to spank other people's children, I think that can get out of hand and some teachers would abuse that power.
That being said...I got the strap once in elementary school, (for fighting) and I never did it again in my life! Same at home, if I did something and I got the strap...I never did that thing again. If however...my mom grounded us or put us in time out...we just laughed at her. Didn't teach me a thing, only the strap did. | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 4/19/2007 11:25:03 PM |
If however...my mom grounded us or put us in time out...we just laughed at her. Didn't teach me a thing, only the strap did.
Exactly! Can you imagine grounding your kid today? It would be like a freaking day at the local arcade. Most kids I know at least have a tv in their room, radio, video games, etc. | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 4/20/2007 1:25:07 AM | Sorry, I can't help but wonder why the OP would wish to live in 1907 as a Christian woman
when she is single (indicating never married) and has kids. Big fan of scarlet lettering, eh? | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 4/21/2007 7:54:44 AM | And you don't see "scarlet lettering" as a form of corporal punishment?
You would-be theorists are your own best refutation. You should have paid closer attention in 'logic' class. If you can think of one exception you think you've obliterated the rule. One angry or misguided teacher means you can turn them all into personless qouters of facts. That rediculous approach may be how you came to be "Parrots" instead of "Thinkers". Parroted presently accepted political correctness & you pat your pointed heads like you've solved the mysteries of the universe.
Quoting 'facts' is not teaching any more than your parroting is preaching or even punditing. Worse yet, what you're quoting is not fact, but a fad that will fade.
Children are not machines & they will not be taught by castrated, disempowered machines. And your theory fails on the presumption that all parents will step up & play their role perfectly, which we know is never true. Your next step, as soon as one of those machines quoted a fact you disagreed with, or perish the thought hadn't memorized yourself would be to unplug the machines. You've already unpluged your minds.
Like it or not teachers are "authority figures", just like any leader in society is. Because a group of individual 'free will agents' will not all move in one accord unless there is one at the head to hold them in check. Jeremiah said, "It is not in man that walketh to direct his steps" (10: 23). Teachers, like policeman "do not carry the symbol of their authority in vain" (Romans 13: 4). The vaccuous theories most of you are throwing out here like they will have no consequences are proof of that principle. One generation throws away the 'principles' & the next one throws away the 'practice' of truth. You are reaping what you have sown.
The good OP was not maintaining for the abuses but for the proper use of an effective tool. A class room that cannot keep order & direction turns to nothing but caos & mayhem.
Why don't you wonderful thinkers take a lesson from the AIDS epidemic. If we learned anything from it it is this, "Any Body that can not throw off an infection is doomed to disintigration & death". That is true whether the body is physical, social or academic. | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 4/21/2007 8:28:04 AM | Why don't you wonderful thinkers take a lesson from the AIDS epidemic
And why don't you realize that if my kid was in school and you were their teacher, I'd raise hell if you laid a hand on my child even if it was "for discipline". A teacher has no right to discipline a child in a physical manner.
The good OP was not maintaining for the abuses but for the proper use of an effective tool. A class room that cannot keep order & direction turns to nothing but caos & mayhem.
And as many people have pointed out we are discussing public schools, you know state run institutions??? If you want your child to pray, suck up the additional costs and send them to a christian school, and if you want them to be subject of physical discipline if they are out of line, than send them to a private christian school that instills that practice, or home school your kids so that you can teach and punish them as you want to.
And your theory fails on the presumption that all parents will step up & play their role perfectly, which we know is never true
That's true, but it's not my job to raise someone elses kids, it's not societys job to raise someone elses kids and it's not the public school systems job to raise someone elses kids. If people can't handle the responsibilty of children, they either not have them or give them up for adoption. | |
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| Spankings and Prayer in school
Posted: 4/21/2007 10:29:38 AM | I am not a parent, however there is no way in this world ANYONE would lay a hand on my children, EVER. Circumstance would dictate my course of action, but ideally a home schooling situation would be the best. I could barely trust a teacher to do the job of educating, let alone moral shaping. Teachers would be under a very close scrutiny. I would also not tolerate abusive language, threats, or any other shape of dialougue that strays from the act of TEACHING the ABC's.
It seems ridiculous to take the chance at having a child marred by any number of atrocities that take place in public schools by teachers and other students.
As for prayer in school...prayer is for churches, not schools. If there needs to be a display of authority and allegiance to anything, then it should be to the school ( ie. pride in teams, bands...and a child should have the choice weather to participate or not), rather than outdated gods and governments that have nothing to do with preparing children for the future. | |
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