Mr H2O
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Joined: 10/31/2006
Msg: 1 | |
| Do kids have a choice of religion ?
Posted: 4/22/2007 11:31:52 PM | When a child is born into a household it is immediately indoctrinated
with the religion of the parents almost from day one.
Perhaps children be brought into the world neutral.
They would learn about different cultures by being allowed to play with all kids
in the neighborhood and tasting the foods the others kid eat.
Tolerance, respect, trust, being open minded, are important ideals at a young age.
Understanding that it's not wrong or evil or a sin to do something differently,
it is what it is, "different", that's all. End. Period. Being different does equal bad.
Religion causes more harm than good by driving a wedge between us on planet earth. | |
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Mr H2O
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Joined: 10/31/2006
Msg: 2 | |
| Do kids have a choice of religion ?
Posted: 4/22/2007 11:45:56 PM | Wow, it's 2:46am Michigan time and I see some people are pissed off
that I even brought up the subject.
How about having the chops to address the subject
instead of hiding behind the delete button ? | |
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| Do kids have a choice of religion ?
Posted: 4/23/2007 12:17:29 AM | You tell them!
I agree, I have seen so many examples where religions cause more problems than they solve and in the end I tend to discredit religions that are not tolerant of other religions and their existance.
In fact I was going through a particularly piss and vinegar stage when I was about to get confirmed so I told my pastor right before the ceremony right to his face point blank that I did not believe in God. They confirmed me anyway! Why would they do that? What benefitted them ? | |
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| Do kids have a choice of religion ?
Posted: 4/23/2007 1:27:27 AM | As the child grows it will be exposed to others. I know I was and it was done forcefully, at their home I could not even eat there if I did not pray their way (which is why I was their sometimes, i eventually stopped going) I cant say it has left a good impression on me. Those are some of the extremes but I will say that I will give my child guidance and access to knowledge and let him seek it. Where it leads him is up to him as long as he is a good morally and ethically based human being whom isn't abusive to other life forms and is responsible (once he grows up lol) I will not complain if he ends up walking a different spiritual path then the one I am on. I support him totally :) | |
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| Do kids have a choice of religion ?
Posted: 4/23/2007 7:35:32 AM | I think that it's important to give a child some sort of background in theology. Not necessarily "religion" but more of a world-cultural-ethnic-ethical view. Reading the bible, not as codified "word-from-on-high" but as a series of interesting stories. Let the child learn where the "religion" came from, what it is, then give them more information to make an educated decision on their own, for themselves.
I was raised in one religion, had friends in others, and it was no big deal for any or all of us to go to services as a large multi-religious group (OK, sometimes it was for the after-church snacks, but we were young them). It didn't change my views- it expanded them. It made me want to question. Now, I identify more with the religion of my birth, but that's more cultural than religious.
When my son started going to Sunday School, he learned as much as we could teach him, both in church and out. He read the important books for himself, learned to sort through the religion to get to the theology. At age 13 he decided that church wasn't for him, he had other more personal beliefs and hasn't been back since.
He learned enough to make up his own mind. That's where I think most of the God-botherers fail... they do not allow their children to understand anything outside of their little universe, and it DOES become more brainwashing than education. | |
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| Do kids have a choice of religion ?
Posted: 4/23/2007 7:41:52 AM | Go read "Parenting Beyond Belief", OP.
I think the reason your original thread was deleted (and I can't say for sure, since I haven't read it) is that a lot of people take umbrage at being told how to raise their kids, especially if you use generalizations to do it. Not all religious people are bible-thumping, brain-washing zealots forcing God down their children's throats. | |
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| Do kids have a choice of religion ?
Posted: 4/27/2007 10:00:52 PM | I don't think some people like the thought of letting their kids think for themselves.........my mom took me to different churches to see if I was comfortable with any of them- I wasn't. Also; some parents have to listen to peer pressure from friends and family- I work with a catholic who is constantly having to defend herself- because her son won't go to church. People(customers) actually come right up to her and ask why doesn't he go????(he's 18) A guy I used to date (when I was 19) told me that if we married and had kids- that his mom would arrange for the baptism!! In other words.........I would have no choice. | |
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| Do kids have a choice of religion ?
Posted: 4/29/2007 5:16:07 PM | Do kids have a choice of religion? No
Parents are obligated to indoctrinate them into one so they have one to reject later in life.
Seems that religion should be an adult choice...but it is really a "passing on of family/tribal tradition", no wonder that Richard Dawkins gets so bent about the idea of "Catholic kids" or "Muslim kids" etc.
When everyone reaches adulthood and has fully developed critical thinking skills they sort it out..  | |
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| Do kids have a choice of religion ?
Posted: 4/29/2007 7:37:18 PM | To answer your subject title, "Do kids have a choice of religion", it depends on the parent. Some parents automatically raise their child in the religion they follow (Which I would say oftentimes are the 3 main religions that do so..from experience anyways) If children come from a multi religious home, sometimes their parents will let them have a choice to follow either of those religions, and sometimes they won't which causes tension in the home life. In a perfect world, one would let their child decide which religion they want to follow if any.
I don't have any children, but I was raised christian, am currently buddhist and engaged to a pagan *who was raised christian as well* and our thoughts on the subject of religion is to let them make their own choices, and if so inclined to learn about our choices...they'll be taught, but also encouraged to learn about other religions. No sense pushing my beliefs or his on a child. We've both been there, done that and sold our t-shirts, so why would we want to do the same thing to a child? | |
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| Do kids have a choice of religion ?
Posted: 4/30/2007 10:06:26 AM | I think that children are brought into the world neutral. Regardless of the fact that most (and by most, I meant NOT ALL) parents refer to simply one religion, theirs, when raising their children - those children grow up to have minds and wills of their own. They have the seeds to different religions planted in their minds from youth when they attend elementary school and discover the history of Egyptian Culture, Roman Culture, Greek Culture and so forth. It can start there. The thirst for knowledge is not dependant on having understanding and open-minded parents. It is dependant on the child, the individual, who has the option to choose to learn of different things, or choose to remain a practitioner of/have knowledge of only one faith.
It is important to teach ones child about ones own beliefs - regardless of what those beliefs are. A child must know its parents, understand the reasoning for the rules of the house, the actions of the house, and soforth. It is very important to development...I think. I would prefer that parents would encourage their children to learn about various religions, encourage their children to take the time to do their research and then go with what feels right for them. Though even if they do not, that child can still make the choice to learn on their own.
Religion can indeed cause problems....but if people weren't fighting over religion, they'd be fighting over skin colour, not fighting over that they'd fight over crops, power, and so forth. Religion isn't the only reason there is disruption between people, getting rid of religion won't solve the worlds problems. People are inherently aggressive, especially when they feel threatened. It's natural. We fight the urge to fight on a daily basis every time someone looks at us the wrong way, yet we claim to be passive.
Everyone has the choice of religion, the choice whether to believe in something, or not to. It will remain that way, I think, for quite some time. | |
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Ender
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Joined: 2/1/2004
Msg: 12 | |
| Do kids have a choice of religion ?
Posted: 4/30/2007 10:48:04 AM | Parents have a right to raise their children as they see fit....part and parcel of being a parent. I don't think its really possible to raise a child in a 100% neutral environment......and there is always the arguement that a certian amount of structure in a kids life is a good thing.
That being said I think that once a kid gets to be a teenager they should have the right to choose their own spiritual path. | |
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Mr H2O
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Joined: 10/31/2006
Msg: 13 | |
| Do kids have a choice of religion ?
Posted: 4/30/2007 1:38:21 PM | Why would a kid choose a different religion after 18 years of indoctrination ?
18 years of telling, explaining that this is a proper, just, necessary way to live,
just to have the kid throw it all in the parents face and walk away ?
It does happen but it's rare - religion forces the kid to see the world in a skewed manner
Structure can be had with absolutely no religion.
Merely teaching a kid not to kill another human, being respectful to all people and animals, telling the truth, and having compassion for other people isn't a religion.
No god is involved and that kid will function very well in society.
A belief is not a religion , it is merely any cognitive content held as true
Example - a person believes Pluto has lush gardens and fresh water | |
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| Do kids have a choice of religion ?
Posted: 4/30/2007 4:03:11 PM |
Why would a kid choose a different religion after 18 years of indoctrination ?
I think you are making an assumption here that substantial brainwashing is made by ALL parents. True in some cases, and certainly more of a "requirement" in some faiths, but I don't believe it is universal.
I think there are still many parents out there that see some importance in exposing their children to religion, but not in mandating beliefs.
I agree that those religions that do "indoctrinate" and "brainwash" are at best misguided, at their worst a plague on humanity.
Participating in an organized religion and/or a belief in a god is not necessary for a child to develop into a well functioning, ethical and moral adult. | |
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Ender
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Joined: 2/1/2004
Msg: 15 | |
| Do kids have a choice of religion ?
Posted: 4/30/2007 7:17:25 PM | ......
There is a huge difference between parental brainwashing, and providing religious structure to a childs life. For example, I was raised catholic....not because my parents particularly LIKE christianity, but because of the social structure and community it provided. When I reached an age where I could start thinking construcitvly about my own spirituality I was given the choice to continue my current religious structure, or go my own way. I think that I am a better person for having been raised in a somewhat religious environment because it allowed me to see the GOOD things that religion can do in a community.
Although if you read my posts I'm sure you can tell which way my personal spirituality leans. | |
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Mr H2O
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Joined: 10/31/2006
Msg: 16 | |
| Do kids have a choice of religion ?
Posted: 4/30/2007 8:34:54 PM | Missionaries destroy cultures that have existed for eons.
It is the ultimate disrespect on the face on the earth under the guise of "helping" .
Dominating another culture, ethnocentrism, call it what you will, in my opinion it's wrong.
Perhaps kids need to be shown both sides of the story to truly understand religion.
A little anthropology lesson about 6 Billion humans, in 193 countries all over the world
Helping people in the immediate community surrounding the church is compassionate. | |
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| Do kids have a choice of religion ?
Posted: 4/30/2007 10:03:15 PM | | Ive posted this once and I'll do it here too....Look you can say what you want about any religion but in MY opinion they all say the same thing. Don’t harm anyone, and love your fellow man as you love yourself. They all just have a different way of explaining the same basic morel principles that all humans should live by. It’s just too bad people separate themselves into these different groups and then fight over who is right. Don’t people realize that no matter whom or what you believe in the only thing that does matter is that you have faith and that you must try everyday to be a good person, because we all know that sometimes that can be real hard when it seems that everyone else is only looking out for themselves. God, Allah, Buddha or the Lord and Lady or whatever you practice, they all share the same message. Look past the front and truly see what they all mean. One of Gods greatest gifts is our free will to make our own decisions weather they are right or wrong. | |
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| Do kids have a choice of religion ?
Posted: 5/1/2007 6:36:49 AM | Since confirmation doesn't happen until at least the age of 12, (that's when they started pushing me to confirm), you *did* have a choice. Being baptized in Catholicism doesn't mean you're confirmed to that religion, it just means your sins have been cleansed. Not that an infant has any except perhaps that whole soiling oneself thing.
If you didn't confirm, you obviously made your choice to go the opposite direction. | |
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Mr H2O
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Joined: 10/31/2006
Msg: 20 | |
| Do kids have a choice of religion ?
Posted: 5/1/2007 11:29:54 AM | Lady-fair does it have to be opposite or can it be parallel ?
The choice of wording is interesting
- good vs. evil
- one direction vs. opposite
- one religion vs. all others
Perhaps good can be had with a parallel path ? | |
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| Do kids have a choice of religion ?
Posted: 5/2/2007 9:04:44 PM | Unconditional charity and community service are good things - and an organized religion is not needed to do these things.
Self-improvement, living a moral/ethical life are good things - and an organized religion is not needed to do these things.
Coercion disguised as charity is evil.
Personal growth comes by challenging your beliefs, an organization that discourages/prohibits constant self-examination and challenge ain't a club to join..
Kids don't have a choice because they are kids...underdeveloped critical thinking skills, desire to be accepted, perception that copying others behaviors is the "safe" path, etc. It's all a "Santa Claus". "Easter Bunny" approach until you leave childhood behind. | |
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| Do kids have a choice of religion ?
Posted: 5/11/2007 9:49:00 PM | | I grew up a christian, but now tend to look upon Wicca as where my beliefs lay. My son who is 11, knows my beliefs, and is a christian. I believe he can make is own choice...I believe God is God, no matter what the relegion, and that the only difference is how each culture interperts their beliefs... | |
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| Do kids have a choice of religion ?
Posted: 5/12/2007 12:37:55 AM | Mr H20 The point that you raise is a good one to raise, and a sore one with me.
To my mind, religious indoctrination of children is insidious, sick and evil.
It saddens me to see well meaning mothers - similarly infected with this brain virus - passing it on to their children.
Children should first be taught how to think and reason properly:
How to deduce,
How to collect evidence,
[not just the evidence that you like, or fits your preconceptions ]
How to keep your mind open and looking for new evidence, FOREVER.
How to strive to think of all the possibilitys that fit a given set of facts rather than dogmatically defending the first thing that pops into their head.
Once kids learn to accept any form of dogma over reason, their mind is infected. It takes a strong mind to use reason to override ingrained dogma of any sort, be it:
Racist
Political
Homophobic
or Religious,
etc...
And that dogmatic virus is in the back of their mind always.. with everything they learn ... dicolouring and obscuring a clear world view.
If you are a parent reading this and know that you are infected, I call on you to find the strength to fight it and protect your children from it. | |
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| Do kids have a choice of religion ?
Posted: 8/15/2007 6:41:14 AM | While I can't speak for others, in my parent's house it was my mother who was the church going one and whenever SHE went to church, WE went to church. As a kid, church used to frighten me. All of those stories of the supernatural - coming back from the dead, appearing out of nowhere, slaying goliath and then lopping his head off, etc, the violence portrayed in the christian bible frightened me. Oh I wasn't a timid little kid mind you and certainly didn't tremble with fear when I heard them but when the lights go out and it's time for bed and little minds begin to wander... that's what scared the beejeezuss outta me! lol
Today, I do not force my children to go to church since I do not go. To do otherwise is to be a hypocrite! Rather if one of their little friends asks them to go to Sunday school, okay, because that's fine by me. And I'm certainly prepared to UNdoctrinate them if they become INdoctrinated.
I know a lot of my coworkers do not attend Sunday services but I've heard them tell their kids, "You're going to Sunday school with your grandmother and that's final!" then later I corner them and say, "Hypocrite!" | |
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| Do kids have a choice of religion ?
Posted: 8/15/2007 7:27:46 AM | Good question. I was raised in one faith, but have since gone a different path than my childhood upbringing. With my upbringing, I didn't even know that there *were* other faiths. You were either Christian, or you were not.
My children know about my faith, and I've done everything I can to not let them think I expect anything from them spiritually. They ask questions, I give answers or get them. They know about Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism... Let's just say that with a Mother who's fascinated by religion itself, they have a broad understanding of it. ;)
Yet my oldest (13) has voiced many times his interest in Paganism. Is it truly his prefference or has he been influenced by Mom?
All I can do is sit back and watch. Time will tell. | |
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