| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 5/1/2007 12:35:06 PM | As our "leaders" look at the issue of immigration reform should they look at adopting a requirement that would require some proficiency of the English language before citizenship is granted?
It would seem obvious to me that some minimal ability in the national language should be required before we grant citizenship. This will at least ensure that the new citizen would be able to be productive in the work place, seek assistance and be able to be productive in society.
Without this requirement we will slowly move our nation to a nation of Spanish speaking people. In more situations than I care to count I have felt like the immigrant when I am surrounded by Spanish speaking people. As a people Hispanic immigrants are less likely to assimilate into our culture than other immigrant groups. They are interested in being in America yet do not want to be Americans. They want the benefits of American citizenship but not the responsibilities that it entails.
Should there be a minimum English language proficiency required for citizenship? | |
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ousu
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Joined: 6/2/2005
Msg: 2 | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 5/1/2007 12:56:54 PM | I agree that it truly is a shame that our Government does not feel the need to declare a national language. They are so afraid of alienating some segment of the population that they will not make this one obvious and natural move.
What a shame when we live in a world where the politicians are more concerned with being re-elected than they are in doing anything productive and memorable during their terms. | |
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ousu
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Joined: 6/2/2005
Msg: 4 | |
| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 5/1/2007 1:04:46 PM | | In multicultural nations there are usually more than one official language (we have the main language but you can get the citizenship with at least with the other language of minority - without knowing the main language). Obviously in the US it would be really hard to say which languages should be recognized as official ones? Perhaps, according the states? | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 5/1/2007 1:49:30 PM | Minimun English language skills and passing a basic test of American history have been for years a requirement from INS to grant permanent residence first and citizenship later. Only exception allowed are for people over 60 (?) or in the country previous 1972 (?).
The requirements in the immigration proposals is just rethorical issue.
There is no oficial language in US, English in considered "de facto" only. No immigrant in the process had ever legally disputed the decision in court to avoid delays.
I have never heard about granting citizenship in the court of law, before a jugde (the only place to sworn) in other language than English and without translators. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 5/1/2007 8:42:20 PM | Coming from Canada with two official languages - a low number in some countries - I get upset when I hear people worried about losing English to populations who speak other languages.
English is spoken the world over and is by no means threatened. And as far as the European English are concerned the Americans have never learned how to speak it properly in the first place. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 5/1/2007 9:24:33 PM | Coming from Canada with two official languages - a low number in some countries - I get upset when I hear people worried about losing English to populations who speak other languages.
And a country with two very seperate and distinct cultures. A country in which there s prejudice towrds the ones that do not speak your language. A country where the French speaking population wants to form its own country and break free from Canada. That is not how I want my country to be.
Your criticism of how Americans speak English is completely unwarranted. Most Americans speak English very well. As in any country with any language you will have those that **stardise and misuse the language. While we do not speak what would be referred to as the "Queens English" most of us are quite adept at our English language. I guess what we speak would be considered a regional dialect. No different than the different dialects spoken in England itself.
Canadiens with their aboot and eh's have done their fair share of **stardising the English language as well. So, perhaps it would be wise to quit throwing stones in your own glass house. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 5/1/2007 11:10:41 PM | | Asimilation is key nomatter what country you visit. I think every foreigner should have to learn English. It's no different then if I live in France or Mexico, I would need to learn their languages. I think it's a sign of respect for the people and their culture to atleast try! | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 5/2/2007 3:54:43 AM |
And a country with two very seperate and distinct cultures. A country in which there s prejudice towrds the ones that do not speak your language. A country where the French speaking population wants to form its own country and break free from Canada. That is not how I want my country to be.
I guess this is how you respond to somebody who doesn't agree. I'd just like to point out that seperatism is at an all time low right now. It's also amusing that even though our population is made up of one (the french) which was defeated by another (the english) for all the occasional animosity, we haven't had a shooting war. Can you claim the same?
Canadiens with their aboot and eh's have done their fair share of **stardising the English language as well. So, perhaps it would be wise to quit throwing stones in your own glass house.
Meh, you have a point here, regional dialects are hardly something to give Americans a hard time about, hell english in freaking england sounds bizzare depending on where the person is from. Basically Canadians speak like northern americans, and spell like the UK.
I think your fears are a little premature. People used to have the same fears about Irish and Itallian immigrants taking over the country and changing the culture. It's a non issue. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 5/2/2007 4:59:54 AM |
I think your fears are a little premature. People used to have the same fears about Irish and Itallian immigrants taking over the country and changing the culture. It's a non issue.
Actually it is an issue....... This wave of hispanic immigration is continuing virtually unchecked at an unprecedented level. There is a significant difference in the goals and agendas of this wave of immigrants versus the earlier waves of immigrants such as the Irish and Italians. The previous immigrants had the goal of being Americans. They wanted to assimilate and become a part of the fabric of this nation. The current Hispanic immigrants simply want to live here and enjoy the benefits of living in America without becoming Americans. They are reticent to let go of their heritage enough to assimilate and let them become part of the fabric of this country. Immigrants do not need to completely lose their heritage to assimilate, but they do need to make some changes and they need to learn to adapt the cultural mores of their new country.
Over the last ten years this country has changed significantly due to this wave of Hispanic immigration. Spanish speaking radio and TV has increased tenfold. So much of what is printed in this country is printed in both English and Spanish. Plus, there is the ever popular "Press 1 to continue in English" which is quite annoying. The host country should not need to adapt due to the needs of its immigrants.
We are at an important point in the development of this country. As a nation that was founded and built by peoples of all origins and that prides itself in being a melting pot we are at a dangerous precipice with immigration. We stand to lose so much of what is America if we let this wave of immigration go on unchecked. It will go far beyond language if we don't do something now. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 5/2/2007 9:12:05 AM | The current Hispanic immigrants simply want to live here and enjoy the benefits of living in America without becoming Americans.
and what is your source for that 'factoid'? im willing to wager the exact opposite - they would love to become citizens. I've met a few 'illegals' and they were hard working and appreciative of the life that $7 hour buys them here. As to not assimilating, don't kid yourself - the Europeans (ncluding my Irish ancestors) didnt assimilate until the second and sometimes 3rd generations. Illegals are frightened to death of being discovered and shipped out - not a good position from which to go sign up for an English class is it? | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 5/2/2007 10:26:59 AM | Of course it should be required, But if immigrants don't learn the language they will stay at the bottom of the workforce, they will stay in those shitty jobs that the rest of us don't want.
Our politicians know this, thats one of the reasons why no one is pushing for any kind of real reform to our immigration policy. America wants that cheap labor!!! whats even worse is that some school districts offer classes to Mexican American kids in Spanish!!
Do I need to even start on this one?????
If we are teaching kids that were born in this country that they don't need to learn English, aren't we limiting their opportunities???? I think so. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 5/2/2007 12:16:29 PM |
and what is your source for that 'factoid'? im willing to wager the exact opposite - they would love to become citizens. I've met a few 'illegals' and they were hard working and appreciative of the life that $7 hour buys them here.
I garnered this factoid from several creible sources. Becoming citizens and want to be Americans are two completely different things. They want to be citizens and reap the benefits of citizenship and the opportunities that come along with it. However, they want to be Mexicans in America as opposed to becoming Americans with Mexican roots. This actually is a well documented phenomena and one of the reasons I have such a problem with this rampant immigration.
The racial make up of this country has changed so much in the recenty past with people of hispanic origin. Check out these fact:
41.3 million
The estimated Hispanic population of the United States as of July 1, 2004, making people of Hispanic origin the nation’s largest race or ethnic minority. Hispanics constituted 14 percent of the nation’s total population. (This estimate does not include the 3.9 million residents of Puerto Rico.)
1
Of every two people added to the nation’s population between July 1, 2003, and July 1, 2004, were Hispanic.
102.6 million
The projected Hispanic population of the United States as of July 1, 2050. According to this projection, Hispanics will constitute 24 percent of the nation’s total population on that date.
The States of California and Texas are bordering on having over 50% Hispanic populations. Tell me this is not changing the face of our nation.
I am not against immigration in the least. We are, after all, a nation of immigrants. However, rampant, unchecked immigration is causing us to lose America and so much of what made us the great nation we are/were. Do we truly desire to become the minority in our own country?
Perhaps it is time for us to all move to Mexico and develop it so we have someplace to live where we can be the majority again. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 5/2/2007 12:30:47 PM | Texas. California. Nevada. New Mexico. Arizona. These were all at one time Spanish colonies. Conquered, bought or stolen by America, with huge spanish speaking populations. It seems strange that people want to live there and not become American citizens?
The fear of immigrants that is becoming prevalent in the U.S. (and to some extent here in Canada) is just good old fashioned racism, fear and paranoia, dressed up with some pretty words. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 5/2/2007 1:14:13 PM | The fear is warranted. The cost of supporting this wave of immigaraion is devastating to states like Texas, California, New Mexico, Arizona and Nevada. Let's not even get started on the whole bilingual education discussion and the costs in both dollars and resources that these cost.
We are not afraid of immigrants so much as we fear the cost and societal impact of immigrants.
Granted, as a country, we do not always spend our money wisely (see Iraq War). However the tremendous financial and resource burden this wave of illigal immigrants is puttting upon our local, state and federal governments is enormous. We cannot afford this.
It amazes me that these illegal immigrants come to this country and have the gall to march on our cities and demand that our government do something for them. Perhaps had they had the gall and the drive to make such demands of their own government they would not have had to leave their own countries.
This is not paranoia nor racism. If anything it may may ethnocentrism. I happen to value the American way of life, our values and morals, our traditional work ethic and I think it would truly be a shame to lose them. We are at risk of losing them now. Values and morals evolve over the course of time to fit the needs of the evolving society. However, we risk now not a slow evolution but a drastic shaping that reflects a rapidly changing society. This needs to be slowed down before we lose so much of what has made us the greatest nation the world has ever known. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 5/2/2007 1:46:36 PM | Nativism, every new group of immigrants is different then the last.
You think they weren't saying the exact same thing about the irish and itallians and polish?
PLEASE. Some historical context here.
As for illegal immigrants, tell me how is basic english language requirements for legal citizenship going to help that situation? | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 5/2/2007 4:57:42 PM | Yes, Jed. As per the title thread.
"Do we truly desire to become the minority in our own country?"
OP The bad news is that "whites" are already the minority compared to all the rest of each minority together (african-american, hispanic, asian, and all others no-anglo)
The good news is that hispanic/latino is an ethnicity, no a race. We are white caucasian, therefore it can be restored your concerned unbalance. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 5/2/2007 4:58:39 PM | | Hows isit going to help the cituation? It's going to give their family and them a better chance at success! Your not likely to find a high paying job in an english country where you can't even speak English. Imagine customer service jobs of any kind....its hard enough having a conversation with a Dell service agent. Asimilating to the customs and culture of a country opens up door for success! If you have a skilled trade with years of experience ..... no employer is going to hire a second person just to interpret what your saying! | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 5/13/2007 9:08:39 PM | It's somewhat hypocritical to expect foreigners to speak or write in English when those whose first language is English can't! Have a quick look through this thread, or anywhere online, for the astounding mistakes. I'm not even accounting for typos or the deliberate [and ugly] shorthand many have adopted. I'm referring the vast number of mistakes which change the pronunciation [looser vs loser] or meaning [pedophile vs paedophile] of a word. I'm guilty, like almost everyone else, of mixing up my "theres" and "twos", but I DO know the difference. So many of the other mistakes though, affect the meaning. If you don't know what you are typing, do you really understand what you are reading? Immigrants who DO speak English may not pronounce it well, but they quite often do a FAR better job of writing it [sentence structure not withstanding].
I would note that this isn't exclusively a problem for English. I've seen it in French too, but that might be partly a difference between Franglais, Quebecois, Provencal, and French [among others]. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 5/13/2007 9:14:23 PM |
Should there be a minimum English language proficiency required for citizenship?
Absolutely! When you are planning on making a permanent residency change to another country, you should always be required to speak in their most common (repeat: most common) language. In Canada we have two national languages...French and English. Only Quebec really used French, so it should be a requirement for people to learn English if they want to become citizens. I if were moving to Japan or Italy or wherever, I would make my best efforts to learn their language(s) and accomodate the country I was becoming part of instead of expecting it to accomodate me. | |
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| Should basic English language skills be required for LEGAL citizenship?
Posted: 5/13/2007 11:32:30 PM | "It's somewhat hypocritical to expect foreigners to speak or write in English when those whose first language is English can't!"
I'm pretty sure most people write on POF with half the grammar they do speaking in real life. If only because it's easy to do be lazy.
You're wrong though, when english is their 1st language they can have good grammar they just have to try. | |
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