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| Are you seeking the impossible?
Posted: 5/21/2007 2:54:36 PM | How many of us are seeking the impossible, looking for someone who doesn't exist, etc?
I was tempted to put something in the title/subject like "Are you looking for Hank Reardon or Dagny Taggert?" - but I knew that only a few people would get it, and then read the post.
The issue is this. You have an ideal in mind. You think you know what you are looking for. It's a high standard. You may even think you've found it. Then, surprise, surprise, that person turns out to be human just like you, with faults, with habits that drive you nuts, with opinions that differ from yours. It doesn't matter what the specific issues are, just that they exist.
The Hank and Dagny analogy works well for me here, because they are idealized characters in a book. They are heroic, but not "real." They never have to do laundry or go to the bathroom. They never get sick. They never have an irrational thought. They can be 100% true to their greatest ideals and still survive in the real world. They just aren't real. After years of looking for people like that, I finally figured out that the characters in the book were much exaggerated to make a point. They weren't real.
Barbie and Ken would work equally well. Are you looking for Barbie? A woman with legs that are 1/3 too long for her body? Are you looking for men and women that look like the people in the ads in all the magazines? Those images have all been digitally enhanced to remove blemishes, make legs longer, even the skin tone, make the eye color more intense, etc. They aren't real.
Are you looking for a man who thinks like a woman, empathizes like a woman, understand what women are and what they want? You are looking for something that practically does not exist. Men canNOT read minds. They need us to tell them explicitly what we think, what we want, what we need.
It has literally taken me YEARS to figure this out, and to back off on what I am looking for, to have reasonable expectations in a mate.
Okay. Now that I've adjusted my expectations, I need to find a man who has adjusted HIS. LOL
What do you all think?
VanGrad | |
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| Are you seeking the impossible?
Posted: 5/21/2007 3:02:40 PM | Good topic!
I'm not going to say this speaks for everyone, just for me, but I find that I tend to seek out those ladies who do not have the negative traits that I've experienced in the past. Good traits are good traits, no matter who embodies them, but it's fairly easy to also see those things that we can't live with in someone else. I look at their writing, how they describe themselves, their friendships, their families... whether or not they have a "glass half full" or "glass half empty" outlook on life, do they tend to sweat the small stuff, etc. I definitely do not look at the media as a guide to what is attractive or not to me, but I can imagine that someone who is highly impressionable or trendy might be swayed by it.
Bluezzz | |
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Sigi
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Joined: 5/26/2005
Msg: 4 | |
| Are you seeking the impossible?
Posted: 5/21/2007 3:11:01 PM |
How many of us are seeking the impossible, looking for someone who doesn't exist, etc?
Nop...still want to believe it is a 'mission possible'.... | |
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JWA
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Joined: 5/21/2005
Msg: 5 | |
| Are you seeking the impossible?
Posted: 5/21/2007 3:14:33 PM | A shorter version of this same question would be "Are you seeking a composite person?"
Too often people combine every desirable element they've ever encountered in another making a de facto list or preferences that become more like specifications. They will think accepting someone who doesn't possess every item on that list is akin to "settling" therefore they could never find happiness with such a person. The end result is a never ending quest for an imaginary person who has never exisited.
I've often contended those with the longest lists are usually alone the longest amounts of time. | |
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| Are you seeking the impossible?
Posted: 5/21/2007 3:21:27 PM | I think that there is a middle ground between seeking an ideal that no one can live up to and of having simple standards..
IMO you need a little bit of idealism mixed with a healthy dose of reality.. you know you have struck that balance when the ideals/preconcieved notions you have are flexible.. you are willing to alter them depending on the reality of who you are faced with...
And that is what dating is good for..
But this is of course, JMO | |
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| Are you seeking the impossible?
Posted: 5/21/2007 3:22:16 PM | I've often contended those with the longest lists are usually alone the longest amounts of time.
JWA, I agree with almost your whole post. Re the quote above, though, I think a short list can be just as bad, especially if it contains basically contradictory things. For example, I used to be attracted mostly/only to fiercely independent men, then be disappointed when I'd only see them once per month, and they thought that was fine.  Now, I look for a lack of dependence, rather than fierce independence.
VanGrad | |
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| Are you seeking the impossible?
Posted: 5/21/2007 3:24:36 PM | What seems impossible for me to find are woman who are nice, caring and affectionate. Well, I know there are women like that out there. But what seems impossible is that they would want anything to do with a guy like me. That's how it feels seeing that I'm not getting any replies from such women, or any women for that matter. I'm sorry. I've gotten off topic. I just feeling sad because I'm lonely and it hurts.
Please carry on. | |
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| Are you seeking the impossible?
Posted: 5/21/2007 3:27:43 PM | OOOh Sassy.... I agree
I know what i like
I know what i want
I know what i love 
and
I know what i cant live with | |
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| Are you seeking the impossible?
Posted: 5/21/2007 3:34:52 PM | Heart Bandit. This is not a profile review thread, but I would recommend 2 things. Put a smiling pic up as your primary pic, and at least try to quit smoking. The smoking cuts out a whole lot of nice, caring, affectionate women, not to mention that quitting would probably prolong your life.
You may now return to your regularly scheduled programming.... | |
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| Are you seeking the impossible?
Posted: 5/21/2007 3:40:14 PM | OP, anyone who thinks they'll find a person who doesn't have faults/flaws isn't being realistic, IMO. The important part when looking to find a partner is to first know what *you* yourself want and don't want in your partner and relationship, what your dealbreakers are, what your own faults/flaws are, and to realize that we're all imperfect humans. One also has to be happy with themself if they expect to get into a relationship and behappy then. relationships aren't what makes one happy...but a bad one sure can make you miserable.
Some people don't take the time to figure out any of this; some just expect to find a 'soulmate' and everything will be wonderful...and then real life slaps them in the head and they're crushed. Some people have strange dealbreakers...if they leave the seat up, leave the cap off, etc. which are such minor nothings in the grand scheme of things. then you have the people who wonder if they should stay with someone who cheats on them or lies to them. Perfect examples of people who don't have a clue what they want and who think being in a relationship, even a bad one, will make them 'happy'.
While I'm realistic, I also don't think that wanting to find someone who one can hold an intelligent conversation with, who's considerate of others, who's responsible and has a good sense of humor, and who doesn't just sit on their bum all day drinking beer and watching sports or playing video games, among other things, should be that tough. And you're correct, men *and* women can't read minds...but some of them simply can't communicate, and some can't comunicate what they don't make the time to figure out for themself. | |
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| Are you seeking the impossible?
Posted: 5/21/2007 3:57:27 PM | OP,
Seeing as how I have everything Ayn ever bothered to write, I can tell you that you do not hold true to her principles as outlined and yes, I consider myself as the following:
Part Christian, part buddhist, part secular humanist, and part OBJECTIVIST.
Who is responsible for your happiness? You and you alone.
Everyday before my feet hit the floor, there are a few choice quotes I always run through and among them are, "I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." Only I have to always add the words "ever again" to the end of it.
We are out there, both male and female and for some of us we have just stopped looking for the time being and put our energies into other things. I don't "need" anybody...period. I have to "want" and there is a HUGE difference.
And yes, I am very much capable of understanding both men AND women. I won't bother trying to read the minds of either sex. If you are a poor communicator, chances are I won't bother with a friendship or more. It isn't up to me to guess or beg it out of anyone.
And they are not idealized characters in a book, they are based loosely on real people. Also, based on those characters, I have met people EXACTLY like Hank and Dagny...those are the ones that became my "Amigos Para Siempres". Again, those characters and their character are not exaggerated...then again why should people of that caliber do the whole "pearls before swine thing" again and again, knowing what they outcome would be?
One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
Like one of the tattoos I have designed but won't ink myself with yet...yet...is Atlas, drawn just as described...
"If you saw Atlas, the giant who holds the world on his shoulders, if you saw that he stood, blood running down his chest, his knees buckling, his arms trembling but still trying to hold the world aloft with the last of his strength, and the greater the effort the heavier the world bore down upon his shoulders--what would you tell him to do?"
"I … don't know. What … could he do? What would you tell him?"
"To shrug."
Below the tat are the following words...Atlas Shrugged...and so did I.
There is no such thing as unreasonable expectations unless they run along the lines of :
"Looking for a mute blonde nymphomanic who owns a liquor store, loves all 3 channels of ESPN, has a third breast in the middle of her back so I have something to do while being forced to slow dance. Also must turn into a pizza and a 6 pack immediatley after sex".
If at my age I want to have expectations of meeting someone my age that is reasonably attractive, never married, never had kids and had no more than 3 sex partners, I can hold out as long as I want because it is my choice and my WANT. Hmmm...that one also belongs along side of the example given above too right?
I won't lower my expectations and requirements and settle. Ayn never settled, neither did Hank or Dagny...or Francisco d'Anconia, Ragnar Danneskjöld, Ellis Wyatt. Of course we can't leave John Galt out of that list.
I would rather die still single and count myself amongst people like that list instead of settle and have friends like Bertram Scutter, James Taggart, Paul Larkin, Phillip Rearden and the rest of their ilk.
And since I believe 100% in the quote "I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." I DEFINITELY would rather endure the next 40 years alone then end up married to someone like...ugh...Lillian Rearden.
Cheers! | |
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| Are you seeking the impossible?
Posted: 5/21/2007 4:12:28 PM |
that person turns out to be human just like you, with faults, with habits that drive you nuts, with opinions that differ from yours. It doesn't matter what the specific issues are, just that they exist
I'm not looking for the impossible, just what I want. I know that whomever I date is human, has flaws, will most likely have a differing viewpoint, and drive me nuts. But guess what, I am the same things and will drive her just as nuts given time, it's inevitable and it's life. I take the good with the bad, the ups with the downs, and the lemons life gives me and I make lemonade (after I squirt juice in a few eyes..lol) | |
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| Are you seeking the impossible?
Posted: 5/21/2007 4:16:05 PM | onesimpleneed,
No time to look it up right now, but my favorite Rand quote is from Francisco, along the lines of "Show me the woman he sleeps with and I'll tell you his philosophy of life."
That's not exactly right, but the idea is accurate. I'll look it up later.
I'll start a Rand thread in the Books section, it doesn't belong here, but in a nutshell: read her biography. She was a miserable, unhappy woman. Her own husband couldn't live up to her ideals. Nobody could. She, too, was looking for the "composite" man, mentioned above by another poster.
I still stand by my statement that the characters were exaggeraged to make a point. They didn't get sick, they didn't do laundry or dishes. They didn't even stop to pee. They weren't real, and that was intentional on Rand's part.
VanGrad | |
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| Are you seeking the impossible?
Posted: 5/21/2007 4:24:49 PM | I gave up on all those composite people - I've decided the one criterion: His belly has to be bigger than mine. :) That's it.
Of course I'm kidding - I see very well what OPie meant and I think it was written brilliantly. It took thought to come up with that. | |
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| Are you seeking the impossible?
Posted: 5/21/2007 4:37:15 PM | Yeah, I'm actually pretty sure the "exact" girl I'm looking for doesn't exist - at least I've yet to run into her and I've been dating for a lot of years!
Unfortunately I'm kinda hosed in that most of my interests are "guy things," and it's the "girlie" girls that I'm most attracted to, who are pretty much never into those same interests.
I've got a lot of specifics out there as far as what I'm looking for - but really, as long as we're able to hold regular conversations without boring each other to tears I think that in itself would be great LOL. | |
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| Are you seeking the impossible?
Posted: 5/21/2007 4:39:00 PM | at my age, finding some girl that doesnt expect a brad pitt lookalike boyfriend is near impossible, at least thats what it seems.
:\ | |
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| Are you seeking the impossible?
Posted: 5/21/2007 4:47:03 PM | I think the new impossible is more impossible than the old impossible.
Think about it. We are more connected/communicated than ever. We have way more dating sites and options than ever. Yeeeeeet here we are in a greater number than ever. Hmmmmm.
Are we spoiled perhaps?
Are our standards too high?
Are we worried what someone else might think of our trophy?
You can thank the television and hollywood for the brainwashing. | |
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| Are you seeking the impossible?
Posted: 5/21/2007 4:50:49 PM | No. I used to believe that by getting married [I wasn't Catholic then so it had nothing to do with marriage being viewed as a Sacrament] I would be granted some magical power to turn frogs into princes and so would he re: my own shortcomings.
I thought that I would wake up the day after I got married and somehow or another we would be behaving like my grandparents who raised me did in all ways except the right to go out and smoke a joint on Friday night. Both of us.
No -- I wasn't stoned when I thought this up. I just believed it since I was a little kid. So when he literally did NOT take the morning train to work like in the Sheena Easton song (My Baby Takes....) and I was not in a beautifully landscaped and sparsely populated property in an upper middle class part of town -- baking apple pies and putting my laundry on the line I was disappointed to say the least.
Whatever expectations he had from his own home life didn't count for squat initially [I was 18] but I tried to do whatever he said HIS mother did and that didn't work either.
I am not looking for the impossible anymore but I am looking for that one in a million longshot that I'll find true love. I'd probably have better luck at CasinoRama but I'm not much of a gambler in THAT sense of the word so I'll pass for now.
Gambling with my life (often unbeknownst to me)? Been there and done that...the marriage lasted less than 2 years and being a divorced woman in 1976 was not a good thing...it was akin to saying "find free sex here". | |
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K-lo
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Joined: 7/31/2006
Msg: 20 | |
| Are you seeking the impossible?
Posted: 5/21/2007 5:24:21 PM | I have no list or criteria. A checked-off list of prerequisites doesn't, and won't, begin to touch my soul. I could make a paper airplane out of that list - but that's about as useful as it would be. . . . or I could turn it over and use it as scrap paper in a game of Pictionary. I DO love a good game of Pictionary.
Seriously though - I don't have expectations, except that I expect to be alone until I meet someone who I NEED to exist in my life. Of course, he would have to feel the same way, and if he doesn't, then I'll just be content (and have been) with knowing he exists. So far, I'm batting at about one man per decade for men that make me feel something worth experiencing. If it's impossible to put into words what it feels like when I truly feel . . can you even begin to imagine how difficult it would be to describe "the person" who could make me feel that way? I can't. | |
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| Are you seeking the impossible?
Posted: 5/21/2007 6:06:04 PM | Apparently so. Although my ideal isn't based on any particular person. In fact I don't have an ideal per se - it comes down to the person.
I am picky. I read a study today that people who have stricter requirements also have relationships that are deeper and more meaningful. That's all great IF you can find one. | |
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| Are you seeking the impossible?
Posted: 5/21/2007 6:23:00 PM | Congrats on finally realizing the perfect person doesn't exist. I hope to someday meet someone for whom I'm 'right' and who's 'right' for me. I don't expect a man to behave a certain way or think a certain way; I look forward to discovering who he is and why, and that includes all moods, thoughts, likes/dislikes, etc., etc.
So, what does 'right' mean? To me it means we enjoy each other's company without needing to be entertained or always carry on conversation (being comfortable in each other's presence no matter what the circumstance), respect each other's opinions (but don't necessarily always agree), understand there's no such thing as always being in a good mood & don't take it personally, allow for mistakes and learn from them, helping one another whenever and however we're able, realize that people can and often do change in various ways (opinions, beliefs, values, etc.)....no need to keep going on & on here.
Welcome to the 'real world', OP. I truly believe you'll find it a lot more enjoyable than the fictional one you used to wish to make real. | |
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| Are you seeking the impossible?
Posted: 5/21/2007 6:52:55 PM | Very well put VanGrad.........I really enjoyed reading your opening post in this thread.
It says a lot about how too mnay people think.
And what I have been saying about the dating world for a long time.
We all need to think in reality terms. | |
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| Are you seeking the impossible?
Posted: 5/21/2007 7:00:56 PM |
(OP) How many of us are seeking the impossible, looking for someone who doesn't exist, etc?….……………….
It has literally taken me YEARS to figure this out, and to back off on what I am looking for, to have reasonable expectations in a mate.
A couple of comments. I think, in many cases, people do not really need a relationship in order to be happy. I know the word “need” is cursed but here’s my take on it.
Who needs a job? We can all live on welfare, in one tiny room with a two-burner hot plate. We can buy second hand clothes. Do we really “need” a job or is it a “want”? I would say most people need a job in order to be happy, to be fulfilled.
When we look for a relationship do we want someone to whom a relationship is a “want” or is a “need”? Let’s say we purchase something new and desire to give away the old item. We’ll use a second hand car as an example. Two people are interested. One has a family and travels a long way by bus to work. The other person lives downtown, doesn’t require a car for work and really doesn’t need one but, hey, if it’s free, why not? Which individual would more appreciate the car and look after it? Perhaps we should be asking, “Who should we give ourselves to?”
The second point I’d like to make is I feel people look for the wrong things when seeking a romantic relationship. The longer the list the greater the chances some are not going to be fulfilled. Nobody wants someone who will settle for anyone. We all hope our partner is selective. That is, as long as they select us. J
IMO, people use friendship criteria when making a selection. Of course we want our partner to like similar activities and have similar beliefs but I feel it’s wrong to base a romantic relationship on that. Not only will we become disappointed if/when they change activities/beliefs but if the relationship is based on that then the foundation has been weakened.
On the other hand if we base a romantic relationship on chemistry/sex, that undefined desire to be with them, when activities/beliefs change we may be disappointed but the foundation is not affected. I call that basing a romantic relationship on a family-type relationship. Just as it’s great if/when our siblings enjoy activities we do their not enjoying similar things does not affect our relationship with them because our relationship is not based on those things.
SapphyreSkye (Msg 22)
I don't expect a man to behave a certain way or think a certain way; I look forward to discovering who he is and why, and that includes all moods, thoughts, likes/dislikes, etc., etc.
If I understand her correctly she holds a similar point of view. One has to be drawn to the individual before knowing any specific thing about the person. That certain “something”, that electricity has to be in the air. Similar likes/thoughts, great! Dissimilar likes/thoughts, no big deal because the relationship is not based on those things.
Many people refer to it as settling but that is far from the truth. It is understanding what a romantic relationship truly is. | |
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| Are you seeking the impossible?
Posted: 5/21/2007 7:15:34 PM | Don't know where you got that idea. They were happily married for years. So if you were a writer which you obviously aren't your books would end up 10,000 pages because you are going to describe everytime someone is going to the bathroom and does laundry....good luck on getting that published.
Most people I know won't even bother to read it..."It's too long"...then again, so was War and Peace, The Bible, and many other great works.
Sounds like someone grew up on too much Lawrence Sanders style of writing. He drove me nuts describing what type of sandwich the detective stood over the sink eating. It brought absolutely NOTHING to his work and was indeed filler to make a certain requirement for pages and / or character count.
Hmm...see they were real. Didn't stop to pee? Did you do the Cliff Notes version? The part of the book that describe them growing up as children? Don't forget Dagny did have...GASP! Sex and was a sexual creature.
And if you insult one of the greatest minds of the 20th century...sorry, I'll stand up for her anyday.
You OBVIOUSLY missed the entire point of my previous post.
Good luck settling for your "whatever" man. Lower your standards and expectations. I won't be doing the same.
Cheers! | |
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