| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 5/23/2007 10:53:35 AM | I'm just curious to know why Christians have chosen to distance themselves from their religion's Jewish roots as opposed to embracing them, and likely gaining a better understanding of their faith and the person known as Jesus (or Yeshua as he was likely known to Hebrew and Aramaic speakers)?
The reason I ask is that some Christians have very anti-Semetic tendencies, and seem to think that Christianity sprung up from nowhere without a history rooted very deeply in Jewish culture, practice, experiences and people. Why is that? Jesus was a practicing Jew was he not, and keep Mosaic law? He and the disciples did read the Tanakh did they not? The Prophets of the Old Testament were all Jews were they not?
I'm just wondering why worshipping Jesus (Yeshua) became seperate from Jewish practice when the two are so interconnected, and share so much of the same theology and doctrine? Even scripture says he didn't come to start a new religion of any sort, but to fulfill the prophecies of Jewish prophets. I mean if you remove the pagan elements of the Christian faith that was adapted you have Judaism. I do feel the two can be reconnected, and can learn much from each other. Also from what I can see scripturally you CAN be a practicing Jew, and believe in Jesus as the promised Messiah.
Any thoughts? | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 5/23/2007 2:06:16 PM | Try telling a practicing Jew that you are Jewish and believe Jesus was the son of God. That very thought would mean you are no longer practicing Judaism. You would still be a Jew by birth, but would not be practicing the Jewish faith as defined by Judaism.
The following is from Wiki:
Messianic Judaism is a religious sect whose congregants comprise both ethnic Jews and Gentiles and who believe that Jesus of Nazareth, whom they call Yeshua, is both their savior and the resurrected Jewish Messiah.[1][2] While Messianic Jews practice their faith in a way that they consider to be authentically Torah-observant and culturally Jewish,[2][3][4][5] Jews,[6][7][8] Jewish denominations,[9][10][11] and most Christians[12][13] do not consider Messianic Judaism to be a form of Judaism. Messianic Jews are also not considered Jewish under the State of Israel's Law of Return.[14]
By 1993 there were 160,000 adherents of Messianic Judaism in the United States and 350,000 worldwide.[15] By 2003, there were at least 150 Messianic synagogues in the U.S. and over 400 worldwide.[15]
By the way, we can ask a similar question of Islam.For the main thing that seperates the three religions lies in who you believe Jesus to be, with one other wedge seperating Islam from Christiananity. That being, of course, the issue of Isaac and Ishmael.
Who you believe Jesus to be is one of the fundamental differences that make the three religions clash. It matters not that all three believe in the first five books of the bible. The Jesus factor dominates much of the discourse between different religions, though it is not the only factor.
As to why so many Christians harbor ill feelings towards Jews?
Hey... some people seem to have been born to hate.
This isn't true of course. But it does seem that way sometimes.
Now if I had to come up with a reason to explain the hatred, I'd have to say it's ignorance born out of a lack of understanding of the teachings of Christ and an inability to connect with the Holy Spirit. | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 5/23/2007 3:48:50 PM | Good question! There's definitely a disconnect between Judaism and Christianity-- even more so with Judaism and Islam! Few Christians were more anti-semitic than Martin Luther. Even Billy Graham was caught making anti-Semitic comments during the Nixon years. It makes one wonder. I have learned over time that most Christians do not know as much about Judaism as they think they do. That's because the Jewish and Christian versions of the Old Testament are different, and also because Christians do not have rabbis teaching their Sunday school. I sat next to a rabbi on a plane once; if I had known how ignorant of Judaism I was then, I would have asked him a lot more questions!
There used to be a very devout Jew on this forum, but unfortunately he had to leave. In his absence, madfiddler has been the most knowledgeable POFer I've come across on this subject. Perhaps he will chime in... | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 5/23/2007 4:16:31 PM | There is a huge difference between them, one simply stemmed off from the other. The Christian religion is extremely successful because of how many traits it strayed away from that the Jewish religion carried on.
Jesus was a practicing Jew. He was born and raised to be so. There was no Christian religion until his death, so that obviously wasn't a choice for him. He was a practicing Jew that broke many of their customs. One of the many reasons we see the changes in the Christian religion and why he wasn't exactly a celebrated person in his time.
Lastly, if you're a practicing Jew, you're still waiting for the true Messiah to arrive. Christians believe Jesus was that Messiah, but Jews do not. There is a list of requirements that he didn't mean according to the Jewish religion, so the Gospel written by Matthew filled those in so he did. Mark may have as well, but I was thinking it was Matthew. It's been awhile since I'd read into this stuff much. | |
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Ender
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Joined: 2/1/2004
Msg: 5 | |
| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 5/23/2007 5:32:05 PM | Didn't the jews kill jesus? I think that might be the reason that there is some antipathy between them.....although its really stupid.
Hell, jeudaism and christianity are (at the most basic level) the exact same religion. They differ in the stupid meaningless details. Much like islam follows the same god that the other two do......I just don't understand the reason that all you montheists can't get along. You all beleive in the same god. | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 5/23/2007 6:16:37 PM |
Hell, jeudaism and christianity are (at the most basic level) the exact same religion. They differ in the stupid meaningless details. Much like islam follows the same god that the other two do......I just don't understand the reason that all you montheists can't get along. You all beleive in the same god.
Why are they all basically the same religion? Because they believe one and only god? | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 5/23/2007 7:06:48 PM |
SeededEarth said:
Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Hey, OP, you're from my hometown. Neat.
I don't think that Christians are distancing themselves from their Jewish roots. In fact, I think they're taking things to a new level. It might sound like distancing, but it's not: the NT is the flowering of the OT, and many things in the NT are foreshadowed in the OT. Catholics have a VERY deep understanding of Jesus, and is some argument, deeper than other religions, including non-Catholic Christians: Jesus Christ is the Son of God. The Jewish faith professes that Christ was not God's earthly son, as I understand it. It is clear in both the OT and NT that the Eucharist is an intimate relationship with Jesus Christ - imho, the most intimate relationship. Jesus himself said that you have no life in you unless you eat his body and drink his blood.
Christians and Jews differ on the God/Jesus relationship - which is the foundation of each of their faiths. We should expect there to be a strong difference between the two.
Ender said:
They differ in the stupid meaningless details.
Christ being the part of the trinity is not meaningless. In fact, it is the most meaningful! Sorry dude.... thumbs down to you!
Just my 2 dollars worth.
Peace. | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 5/23/2007 7:55:52 PM | The main difference between the Jewish and Christian faiths comes down to beliefs on the life of Jesus of Nazareth. Prior to Jesus, obviously Christianity didn't exist, but Jesus was, in fact, Jewish. Christians believe that he is the Messiah of Jewish docterine - the same docterine (the Old Testament of the Christian Bible) that we look to for historical and divine teachings before Jesus' time. Christianity simply makes the addition of the New Testament including the life and teachings of Christ as religious docterine. So, the bottom line is that Christians are essentially Jews who have accepted Christ as the Messiah. Current practicing Jews are still anticipating a first coming of a Messiah.
To attempt to separate the two religions completely doesn't benefit either faith, in my opinion. Just as it doesn't benefit Lutherans to ignore their Catholic heritage prior to Luther's denominational reform. Religious history has much to teach us about our own practicing and personal faiths. | |
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Ender
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Joined: 2/1/2004
Msg: 9 | |
| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 5/23/2007 9:13:27 PM | Jew: God is the one true god. Christ was a prophet.
Christian: God is the one true god. Christ was his "son".
Muslim: God is the one true god. Muhammad was his prophet.
Gee, seems pretty damned similar to me. Like I said, the BASIC details are very inconsequential. ALL three religions even espouse that they are "brothers" in the holy books. Your bickering about "trinity", "truth", and all that crap is what has fueled religious wars for the last ****ing 2000 years. | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 5/23/2007 9:19:06 PM | Christianity is essentially a cross between Judaism and Zoroastrianism. I can see several reasons why Jews would think Christianity a repugnant religion:
1) Christians are polytheists who claim to be monotheists.
2) Christianity has God requiring a human sacrifice as its basis for salvation.
3) Christians reject Mosaic Law.
4) Christians claim that Jews broke the Covenant with God (which is a central aspect of Jewish identity).
5) Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies.
6) Christianity elevates Satan to a position opposite and nearly equal to God's.
7) Christianity has a long history of murdering Jews.
8) The NT contains disinformation about Jewish rabbis designed to make them look bad. | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 5/23/2007 10:27:32 PM | Well this would be one Christian family who found their Jewish roots and have been blessed for doing so. We were both raised in a Christian home and know of what you speak when you say that Christians can be quite anti-semitic. We love our Hebraic roots and practice 7th day Sabbath and celebrate all the Jewish holy days as opposed to the pagan holidays that Christians have embraced. We believe in whole scripture including scriptural polygyny and are here for just such a reason.
Steve & Kara | |
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mak68
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Joined: 4/14/2007
Msg: 12 | |
| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 5/23/2007 10:57:21 PM | I'm just curious to know why Christians have chosen to distance themselves from their religion's Jewish roots as opposed to embracing them, and likely gaining a better understanding of their faith and the person known as Jesus (or Yeshua as he was likely known to Hebrew and Aramaic speakers)?
One reason is that, as mentioned, the divinity of jesus is questioned.
It also seems as if the christians think that judaism is a forerunner and leads up to christianity. Therefore the "new" way is THE way. Although their own messiah never came to abolish the older laws, but confirm them, it would seem that christians have a way to overlook that little bugaboo.
The reason I ask is that some Christians have very anti-Semetic tendencies,
Hmmm... blaming someone's anti-semitism on christainity may be a bit of a generalization. There are many reasons and causes of anti-semetism, not just christian belief. It may be that some are so indoctrinated or even militantly christian, ANY other religion is looked upon as inferior. Of course excuses will be made in a jews case like "well they crucified the messiah". Funny thing that, according to what christians say, that is what was SUPPOSED to happen.
I'm just wondering why worshipping Jesus (Yeshua) became seperate from Jewish practice when the two are so interconnected, and share so much of the same theology and doctrine?
I disagree. For example, the god of the OT is a vengeful, vicious, war-like god, he uses fear to keep his followers in line.
The god of the NT is much more subtler in it's threats, and somewhat softened. It seems to prefer manipulation over straight threats. | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 5/24/2007 2:13:24 AM | discombobulated61, one other major diferance between islam and other religions...
other religions dont call on its followere to strike down and kill infidels (sp?)
other religions wouls rather see us embrace and show tolerance to other people. | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 5/24/2007 2:13:52 AM | discombobulated61, one other major diferance between islam and other religions...
other religions dont call on its followere to strike down and kill infidels (sp?)
other religions wouls rather see us embrace and show tolerance to other people. | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 5/24/2007 4:54:04 PM |
Gee, seems pretty damned similar to me. Like I said, the BASIC details are very inconsequential. ALL three religions even espouse that they are "brothers" in the holy books. Your bickering about "trinity", "truth", and all that crap is what has fueled religious wars for the last ****ing 2000 years.
You could sum nearly everything up with that. You've found a main point and left all the details out. They're different, very different in fact. If the similarities were there, we'd see one dominate religion right now. Instead, we've seen a massive increase in Christians and a major loss of Jews in the last 2000 years. Their views are vastly different, the one and only god is their connecting point. I know very little about the Muslim religion, but the Christian religion stemmed off of the Jewish religion. Obviously it's going to be similar.
As for fueling religious wars over the last 2000 years, if anything I'd attribute religion as a reason to start the war, but normally wars have many other meanings. Very few wars are based solely upon religion. Typically power struggle, politics, land (big one), or material possessions has led to war. I guess John Lennon was right, but then again, the ideal world is a figment of our imaginations much like other ideal situations. | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 5/24/2007 5:00:17 PM |
1) Christians are polytheists who claim to be monotheists.
2) Christianity has God requiring a human sacrifice as its basis for salvation.
3) Christians reject Mosaic Law.
4) Christians claim that Jews broke the Covenant with God (which is a central aspect of Jewish identity).
5) Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies.
6) Christianity elevates Satan to a position opposite and nearly equal to God's.
7) Christianity has a long history of murdering Jews.
8) The NT contains disinformation about Jewish rabbis designed to make them look bad.
1.) They don't view it that way. I see what you're aiming for though.
2.) I'd say that's a bit of a reach, but I could see an argument towards it.
3.) Obviously. They only follow what they've chosen to follow.
4.) It's the best way to get people to come to your side no?
5.) Depends if you follow the NT. If I remember, The Gospel of Matthew has the prophecies fulfilled.
6.) Agree, though most would disagree.
7.) Humans have a long history of murdering humans. Religion is just one of many causes. It'll continue on, even if religion wasn't around.
8.) I'd be willing to be the NT is filled with tons of misinformation with various intentions. Much like any book that is meant to persuade, it has it's purpose and does as it's needed to accomplish this. | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 5/24/2007 7:14:31 PM |
I mean if you remove the pagan elements of the Christian faith that was adapted you have Judaism.
As a Christian I'm not offended but disturbed that Christianity is preceived as a Pagan hybrid that fuses the old testement of Jewish scripture with the new testement of the Gospels written Greek text.
Living in an age where Paganism is trying to gain acceptance into the mainstream society it appears out of no where all of the sudden people are claiming "facts" about Christianity that suggest since the Catholic church was founded in the Roman empire elements of Paganism had to be intergrated into the church to appease the citizens of society that were worshiping pagan religions.
Generally! These facts are not entertaining to me where we live in an age where there is antagonism toward the Western European culture. I honestly don't know who's interpreting theses "facts" about Christianity and I know I would have to do my own research on Ancient Rome and Greece to understand the roots of Christianity.
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 5/24/2007 7:21:20 PM | ^^^
Then get your head out of your a r s e and study actual history. Ishtar / Easter...look into that one. Christ mass is another one.
It is very well known and well accepted by the non-sheep who actually study and discuss religious history that these are well known accepted facts.
STUDY STUDY STUDY and your eyes will be opened. The history of the Catholic church is very very ugly and yes I used to be a Strict Roman Catholic and am so glad I got away from it.
The fact it is what it is cannot be changed. The fact that you were spoon fed and lied to cannot be changed. The only thing that can change is you and your thinking...
Cheers! | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 5/24/2007 7:26:21 PM | onesimpleneed
Don't act like a b**ch because I didn't want to come to your thread and debate about women's rights and multiculturalism. I wanted to say my two cents and avoid your thread. And the fact that you said " I used to be a Strict Roman Catholic and am so glad I got away from it." explains your screwed up facts about multiculturalism and Christianity. I knew there was something phishy in your thread.
And yes! I know Christianity has a complex history, so nobody needs to tell me that crap.
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 5/24/2007 7:29:40 PM | All of the sudden people are claiming "facts" about Christianity that suggest since the Catholic church was founded in the Roman empire elements of Paganism had to be intergrated into the church to appease the citizens of society that were worshiping pagan religions.
Unfortunately that's exactly what happened during Constantine's reign during The First Council of Nice. This is actually well documented (even by those who participated) and can easily be found in MANY history books, even those that are more mainstream. Hell, even theology students are taught that. 
One of the most respected texts dealing with the infusion of Pagan elements in Christian doctrine is Hislop's "The Two Babylons". This book is a part of university curriculum for students of theology. I would know, I studied religion for some time and remember lengthy discussions about the Pagan elements infused in Christian and Catholic doctrine and theology.
You are joking right? | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 5/24/2007 8:42:18 PM | Le dumbsac...
Then I suggest you STFU because you don't know anything and try to espouse you do. Anytime you're ready to debate issues on actual facts let me know I'm ready. Otherwise keep your misinformed opinion and over inflated ego to yourself...either that or go get some more of your misinformed types, go see the whore in the holy see, reinstate the inquisition and come get me.
Cheers! | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 5/24/2007 9:29:34 PM |
5.) Depends if you follow the NT. If I remember, The Gospel of Matthew has the prophecies fulfilled.
The Gospel of Matthew is probably the worst offender when it comes to taking OT passages out of context and using them to "prove" that Jesus is the Messiah. None of them are actually prophecies. | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 5/25/2007 3:12:30 AM |
The Gospel of Matthew is probably the worst offender when it comes to taking OT passages out of context and using them to "prove" that Jesus is the Messiah. None of them are actually prophecies.
The entire bible is odd when it comes to context. That's the reason it's still living strong today, you can take most anything and apply it to the way you see fit. Of course he manipulated things to make it appear that Jesus met the required prophecies. Being from the required bloodline and so on. That's the way you get more converts. Those who follow the Christian religion tend to believe them, as they follow the NT. | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 5/25/2007 11:27:59 AM |
One of the most respected texts dealing with the infusion of Pagan elements in Christian doctrine is Hislop's "The Two Babylons". This book is a part of university curriculum for students of theology.
If the university curriculum dealt with the infusion of the most respected texts dealing with Judaic elements in Christian doctrine then perhaps more awareness of Jewish roots would be more prevelant.
I studied religion for some time and remember lengthy discussions about the Pagan elements infused in Christian and Catholic doctrine and theology.
You do know that Catholic is Christian doctrine and theology don't you?
You are joking right? | |
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| Why Have Christians Lost Their Jewish Roots?
Posted: 5/25/2007 12:01:58 PM |
You do know that Catholic is Christian doctrine and theology don't you?
Actually there are very distinct differences in the Protestant and Catholic doctrines. If you can't see them, than there is no use pointing them out to you as seeing that you are Catholic pointing out the obvious "blasphemies of doctrine" and "hypocrisies" within your faith would do little good as you are blinded by the "guidance" of the "infallible"  Pope. | |
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