| Manipulators
Posted: 6/6/2007 10:58:14 AM | | Have you ever gone out with a manipulator? Did you beat him/her at their own game? I know most people here will say " Dump Him". But if the manipulator does it to make himself look good or make himself feel better, can he be taught that it is not a good thing and that honesty is better than trying to manipulate people to agree with you and therefore like you? | |
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| Manipulators
Posted: 6/6/2007 11:00:11 AM | Hi Kim
Yes I have been in a relationship like that..... it got to be too much. Always turned every single thing round to make me look bad and him look good, and in the end it just got me so down I quit.
And in answer to the other part of the question I doubt they can be taught no. | |
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eazk
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Joined: 9/8/2006
Msg: 3 | |
| Manipulators
Posted: 6/6/2007 11:01:50 AM | You care enough about him to want to teach him a lesson that he'll remember??!!??
Gee, how much does this guy own you?
And in the end, what does that make you? | |
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| Manipulators
Posted: 6/6/2007 11:04:09 AM | You can cure the chicken pox, but there will always be sings just below the surface. If he's a new BF, then you should cut to the chase and go for the juggler. Tell him in more diplomatic terms, what is bothering you. See if he let's his gaurd down, if he doesn't, I suggest bailing. Unless, you can be happy with that kind of behaviour.
Personally, it would embarass the hell out of me and wouldn't take her to any family gatherings for sure, let alone have her meet my friend! | |
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| Manipulators
Posted: 6/6/2007 11:04:37 AM | Eazk,
Read the post...I said can a manipulator be taught that honesty is better than trying to manipulate. Big Diff... | |
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| Manipulators
Posted: 6/6/2007 11:04:50 AM | I dont think so. I think minipulators tend to try and build a relationship like that with people they know they can control. Your rejection or non compliance is like them loosing a 20 bucks they just found. They are better taught by those whom they have no control over.
MUCLE! | |
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| Manipulators
Posted: 6/6/2007 11:06:20 AM | You can cure the chicken pox, but there will always be signs just below the surface. If he's a new BF, then you should cut to the chase and go for the juggler. Tell him in more diplomatic terms what is bothering you. See if he lets his guard down, if he doesn't, I suggest bailing. Unless, you can be happy with that kind of behaviour.
Personally, it would embarass the hell out of me, and wouldn't take her to any family gatherings for sure, let alone have her meet my friends! | |
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eazk
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Joined: 9/8/2006
Msg: 8 | |
| Manipulators
Posted: 6/6/2007 11:13:45 AM | I did Kim~.....you said...."Did you beat him/her at their own game?" Hence my point.....what does that make you......a super-manipulator?
Let me lay it out.....everyody manipulates to a degree.....some aggressively, some passively. The issue here is your need to want to change that person. Do they want to change? Is it your responsibility to decide to make that change? Are you ready to undertake a long-term project?
How exactly do you propose to change their value system as I can pretty much guarantee you he doesn't see himself as a manipulator. | |
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| Manipulators
Posted: 6/6/2007 11:15:37 AM | why spend your precious time on earth playing games with people you dont like? could never understand the people who are addicted to and drawn to such drama......... seems they should take meds or something to stop themselves from doing such wasteful and destructive things.
revenge is Gods, not yours.... at least the good kind of revenge comes from God....
anything you try will just come back on you.
get a life. | |
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| Manipulators
Posted: 6/6/2007 11:17:22 AM | | Okay Eazk, You make a valid point and i should rephrase. Can you make someone realize that manipulating others is not the way to go for a happy relationship. And i am not only talking about boyfriend/girlfriend. Anybody. I think there are some people so use to doing this that they even do it with their own mothers... | |
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| Manipulators
Posted: 6/6/2007 11:39:43 AM | | My exhusband is/was a manipulator. I wouldn't dream of trying to teach him how to behave otherwise. I'm not a therapist, it's not my job to "fix" him and I'm just glad I got out. And honestly in my experience you can't beat a true manipulator - one who verges on the psychopathic - at his own game. They've got their moves planned out 10 moves in advance. It's like a gazelle trying to take on a lion - it's just not going to work. Best to just get away from a manipulator and allow them to wallow in the madness they've created. | |
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| Manipulators
Posted: 6/6/2007 11:44:52 AM | | I try to avoid "fixer-upper" relationships, and don't like being manipulated. I'm nowhere near desperate enough to want to go there! | |
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eazk
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Joined: 9/8/2006
Msg: 13 | |
| Manipulators
Posted: 6/6/2007 11:54:21 AM | Kim~.....no, you can't. They don't see themselves that way. My ex-g/f's ex was a manipulator.....even on the days he had the kids, he always had numerous little ways he was controlling her and by indirect action, me. But to him, the rest of the world was simply out of sync with his benevolence and it was hers (/our) problem.
What you're talking about is years of psychotherapy from someone who has lost enough that they have hit rock bottom and are willing to do it. Are you worth that much to him? Are you willing to send him to rock bottom and in doing so, corrupt yourself?
The b1tch of it is, oftentimes it is far, far harder to be the one making the decision to leave than to be the one left. You have to wrestle with your own sense of inadequacy and belief that you can fix this for a long time. Truth is, by starting this thread, you already know the answer. | |
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a1na2
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Joined: 10/3/2006
Msg: 14 | |
| Manipulators
Posted: 6/6/2007 11:57:02 AM | Once a manipulator , always a manipulator.
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| Manipulators
Posted: 6/6/2007 12:02:25 PM | Oh yeah, I can beat them. It is not beating them in the way you are thinking. You can never win them over to the right way of thinking. However, you can make them go completely insane. Their issue is control and they always want the door open.
I don't recomend it becasue they can become highly dangerous, although entertaining.  | |
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| Manipulators
Posted: 6/6/2007 12:05:41 PM | How is manipulation different from salesmanship?
Is salesmanship unethical in a relationship? Where is the dividing line (presuming one exists)?
If salesmanship (manipulation) is unethical, how does the species survive? Through sperm banks? | |
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Lookee
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Joined: 4/14/2007
Msg: 17 | |
| Manipulators
Posted: 6/6/2007 12:11:15 PM | Hi OP,
I think the problem is that if the manipulatior is doing it becuase he needs people to agree with him all the time and like him, then he is lacking self-esteem. I guess a person could be taugh to have self-esteem but I doubt they could stop compleatly being a manipulator. He may stop with you once he trusts you or gets busted all the time. Two of the possibilities I see are, one he'll get pissed at being called out and split, or you'll decide it's too much work to play the mental games with him. | |
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| Manipulators
Posted: 6/6/2007 12:25:27 PM | | See the post on "narcissists" and you will see they are one in the same. Manipulators are narcissists and cannot learn a lesson, they never change, simple as that. | |
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| Manipulators
Posted: 6/6/2007 12:26:03 PM | | Salesmen can be manipulative, but they are not usually controlling. The typical relationship manipulator wants to control everything, and that IS unhealthy - and in my opinion, unethical. Essentially, it is a major personality disorder. | |
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| Manipulators
Posted: 6/6/2007 12:44:53 PM | Um, I divorced a manipulator. And no, he couldn't be "taught" to change his ways because he honestly didn't believe he was doing anything manipulative - I see it differently. I could CARE about him all I wanted to, but the fact was that every single time he didn't get his way I'd be in for days of silent treatment, him refusing to lend a hand with household chores or childcare, disappearing into his office to surf the net, etc. To everyone else, he was a "nice guy," and to this day, he truly believes himself to be a "nice guy." I think he'd done some sort of assertiveness training where he was told never to compromise on reaching his goals - which is fine as long as everyone around him was willing to totally compromise their own lives in order to keep him happy. Because he truly believed he was a "nice guy," he would never have accepted the fact that he was in fact behaving like a manipulative spoiled brat. There was nothing to learn, as far as he was concerned.
Life is a give-and-take, and it's got to be done with grace and maturity. Two adults have to be willing to work together to meet challenges and make the necessary sacrifices to reach their mutual goals. Otherwise, you're just trying to out-manipulate each other, and I don't have the patience. In my world, forget that - move on. | |
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| Manipulators
Posted: 6/6/2007 12:48:51 PM |
can he be taught that it is not a good thing and that honesty is better than trying to manipulate people to agree with you and therefore like you?
That is a lesson the manipulator needs to learn on their own. If someone is that manipulative it's a lifelong habit and they probably aren't aware of what they are doing (since it seems natural to them) and how it effects others. No sense in wasting your time on that project. No one needs a fixer-upper man... | |
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| Manipulators
Posted: 6/6/2007 12:52:41 PM | | I am in a relationship with the worst manipulator of all, my 9 yr old daughter. Once the waterworks and the puppy dog eyes are employed, I am in trouble. So I'm trying to teach her while she's still young. | |
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| Manipulators
Posted: 6/6/2007 1:05:18 PM |
I am in a relationship with the worst manipulator of all, my 9 yr old daughter. Once the waterworks and the puppy dog eyes are employed, I am in trouble. So I'm trying to teach her while she's still young.
Good man - trying to break the habit at a young age. good luck...hang tuff Daddy - You'll be glad you did in the end | |
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| Manipulators
Posted: 6/6/2007 1:12:28 PM | | salesmen are not manipulators; they are trying to make you feel good about your purchase. | |
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| Manipulators
Posted: 6/6/2007 1:24:25 PM | | Don't let anyone manipulate you. That's the only way to teach them it's wrong.. or they'll get annoyed and dump their target themselves since the manipulation wasn't working. | |
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