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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 6/13/2007 7:27:22 AM | If UFC fighters are so great then why don't they come over to boxing and make millions ? They wouldn't dare !!! I don't know anyone who would turn down the chance to make millions. The reason is because they would be outclassed by even a mediocre boxer. Failed boxers go in to UFC and become champions. Would a failed UFC fighter become a boxing champ ? I think not. UFC fighters are just a jack of all trades master of none. Sure if a top UFC fighter was to clash with top boxer in an octagon then UFC would most likely win but he would ONLY win once it got on to the ground so he can do choke hold. A monkey can do a choke hold.
No UFC fighter past, present or future could beat top class boxer in the ring, but I don't about you guys but I wouldn't be supremely confident of a Chuck Liddel or who ever his name is or any other top UFC guy beating a young peak Mike Tyson in an octagon. Ask yourself this
A young peak Mike Tyson Vs Chuck Liddel in boxing ring ?
A young peak Mike Tyson Vs Chuck Liddel in an Octagon ?
Which fighter is the most likely to win both fights ? Me , personally, I think it would be 1-1. I do think Liddel would beat Tyson in octagon but I'm only 55/45 on that but in the ring then obviously its a 100/0 on tyson
A boxer has the edge on fitness levels, defence, stamina, ring craft etc boxers have to be prepared to fight for 12 rounds. UFC fights rarely go the distance. They have no fitness, no stamina. When you watch their punches they are just sloppy and it just looks like street fight at times and that's what UFC is a STREET FIGHT. | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 6/13/2007 8:06:33 AM | are we not comparing apples and oranges here?
Of course a boxer is going to win in a boxing ring. Thats what his training is in.
You put a boxer in a octagon he is not going to know what hit him. He won't understand when a foot comes and hits him in the head or being tackled to the ground because this is not his training.
If you think any monkey can do a choke hold you have no experience in wrestling at all.
when you say a ufc fighters fitness lever is lower then a boxers, when was the last time you saw a boxer using his entire body in a fight? | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 6/13/2007 8:38:26 AM | Please say this joke. Take sometime to check on the background and history of the UFC before jumping out and making rash comments. It is still in the growing stages of the sport. Thus, is one of the reasons why fighters are currently not making millions for just their fights. The top fighters are often making per fight around 200-400 thousand. Plus like boxers they have sponsors and endorsements.
This debate has been going on for a while now, ever since the UFC has come into its own and has somewhat casted a very big shadow over boxing. The fact is that boxing has become some what one dimensional in the eyes of many of the fans and in many of their divisions there is a bunch of lack-luster fighters. With MMA there are many different styles coming into the Cage or ring depending on what league they fight in. In fact Mayweather went and called out MMA before his fight with Hoyas. Dana White, a co-owner of the UFC, and Sean Sherk the current 155lb champ showed up at the MGM Grand to give Mayweather a chance to put up or shut up. When it came down to it, Mayweather backed out and used the Athletic Commission Chairmen to act as an intermediary to put it all to rest. I will say that Mayweather would have ran over Sherk if is boxing rules, but on the other hand if it was MMA rules then the tide would have changed.
Many MMA fighters learn both striking and ground skills as with today’s fighters it is one of the only ways to stay on the top. I would also say that that you got to watch some of the fitness training of the top UFC fighters, such as Rich Franklin, GSP, and Randy Couture (at 43 he is still in top shape). How can you possible say that the defense of a boxer is better then that of a MMA fighter? They may take a slight advantage on defense of punches, but they could never hold their own, when it comes to blocking kicks, takedowns and ground defense.
Tyson did try to step into the RING with a Pride fighter Bob Sapp a few years back. But in the end nothing came out and the fight was never out in place.
Years ago boxing was looked as a brutal sport and know the focus has changed to MMA. MMA has been gaining a lot of ground a very fast, thanks to the help of UFC and other MMA companies that showcase the sport. This has greatly effected the sport of boxing and to help them maintain ground on the MMA, they have focused one calling MMA brutal and just one huge street fight. Something that was taken out of their own book years ago, as they were once called the same. | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 6/13/2007 12:29:08 PM | | I watched UFC when it started and just lately have watched it again. It is very diferent now. A lot of things that used to be done so eagerly and agressive in the first ones are not done the same way . It is more of mutual agreement between the two in the ring , just watch first ones and last ones. | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 6/13/2007 6:58:10 PM | Its obvious SOMEONE has no idea what it really takes to do Mixed Martial Arts.
First the fighters in MMA have training in various styles.
Judo/wrestling/karate/Muay Thai and yes....boxing.
What is a PURE boxer trained in?
Yep boxing.
Do you notice that even when you put the WORST boxer against the BEST boxers that the WORST boxers are still able to get in and clinch?
Well in a boxing match the ref so gingerly goes in and seperates them allowing the better boxer to proceed and destroy the lesser boxer.
In MMA the ref WILL not seperate the clinch.
What would happen is this:
Boxer comes in throws some shots, MMA guy covers up being EXTREMELY defensive and manages to clinch boxer.
MMA guy takes boxer down.
Boxer cries for mercy while MMA guy mashes his face into pudding from the mount position.
Now on the other hand, Mike Tyson in his PRIME with about 2 years of Judo behind him would have been a MONSTER. But then he wouldnt be a PURE boxer anymore, he would be a mixed martial artist.
Gnite Now. | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 6/13/2007 10:22:08 PM | "UFC can not compare itself to boxing."
Since when has UFC EVER compared itself to boxing? Since when has ANY MMA company compared itself to boxing? I have interviewed dozens of MMA athletes in my city alone and I can tell you, not once was the sport of boxing even brought up in passing.
UFC, or any MMA company for that matter, will never compare itself to boxing, nor should it. It's a totally different sport. As for the millions made by boxers, as it's already been touched upon, take a look at the history of the sports. UFC is still in its developmental stages. Boxing is at the top.
I'm not a big fan of UFC/MMA, but I will say this much: as long as the corruption in boxing continues to override the matches themselves, the likes of Don King et al are doing MMA competitors a world of favours. I have yet to see a controversial decision in any kind of MMC match, nor have I ever reported on an MMA athlete who believes he was "done wrong" by the judges. That's mostly because the majority of MMA fights don't go the distance.
Boxing, on the other hand, is becoming a complete joke. The blatantly obvious fixes are becoming so commonplace that it's not even interesting to watch anymore. This isn't a recent phenomena, nor is it restricted to the pro ranks. Does anyone remember the 1984 Olympics in LA, where Canadians Shaun O'Sullivan and Willy DeWitt were completely robbed of their Olympic gold medals by Americans Frank Tate and Henry Tillamn?
How about the Lennox Lewis/Evander Holyfield fiasco?
Boxing as it is right now is one step removed from wrestling. At least with MMA fights a win is a win and a loss is a loss. Now I'm sure eventually a Don King-like figure will emerge in the MMA world, and once that happens, it will fall down the same corrupt path as boxing. But for now, and for the foreseeable future, MMA is a much better product for the entertainment dollar. | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 6/14/2007 5:49:02 AM | good post, island.
Another thing to ponder...MMA is one of if not THE fastest growing spectator sport and boxing is steadily in decline.
The twain shall meet very soon.
As for money perhaps they arent earning millions for one fight but I recall when fighters salaries were $5000 or $10000 if they were lucky in the UFC.
Now guys are getting paid around $300-500K for big fights. Considerng they fight about 3 times a year and with endorsements I would say they make a fair living. | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 6/17/2007 9:18:44 AM | Kinda reminds me when Tommy Morrison had his so called MMA bout. If I remember correctly there were no knees, no elbows, no grappling, something like that, it was just a boxing match, with MMA gloves, in a MMA ring. Of course he won that fight. Would've Morrison won if he took the fight to the gound?
They have no fitness, no stamina
You must've haven't seen these people train. I mean Tito Ortiz stamina is top-notch. To me, I think MMA fighters work a lot harder, especially in being in so many styles. | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 6/18/2007 3:00:02 PM | TKDMAN,
Again valid points. I am not going to Diss boxing training. It is extremely intense and difficult, it takes alot of courage and will to particiapte in any form of boxing workout.
I have to address however that a martial arts workout including kickboxing, Muay Thai, grappling such as Judo, Jiu Jitsu and wrestling are very demanding in their own right.
Its a different type of fitness since much of the time you are also carrying the weight of another person. Not as much striking or head bobbing for instance but alot of lunging type moves for takedowns as well as holding a person down or escaping a hold down.
It was always very funny to see football players just coming out of the football season, supposedly in shape, join wrestling only to have them puking before the 1st workout was even finished. | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 6/19/2007 7:50:52 AM | I agree with the majority of what has been said. And MMA has never tried to compare itself to boxing.
This entire conversation actually reminds me of the discussions they had in the 1970s when Mohammed Ali, the Heavyweight Boxing Champion of the World took on Antonio Inoki, the Former Japanese Professional Wrestling Champion and how Ali was hardly able to defend against Inoki in the fight. Here is an article on it here. http://www.mutantfrog.com/2005/03/15/muhammad-ali-vs-antonio-inoki-beyond-the-mat/ Just a thought for comparisons. | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 6/19/2007 12:20:28 PM | | Mike Tyson in his prime vs Michael Jordan in his prime. Basketball and boxing. 1-1. Gee. Maybe even Tyson and Tiger Woods? | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 6/20/2007 3:49:21 AM |
Originally Poster By Ezzee
This entire conversation actually reminds me of the discussions they had in the 1970s when Mohammed Ali, the Heavyweight Boxing Champion of the World took on Antonio Inoki, the Former Japanese Professional Wrestling Champion and how Ali was hardly able to defend against Inoki in the fight
UFC, MMA, wrestling is just for BUMS who can not box. I watched the fight with Ali and the wrestler. All the wrestler done was stay on the ground and kick at Ali legs. That's all he done. He lay on the floor, seriously, watch the tape. If he would have fought toe 2 toe with Ali then there would have only been one winner. If you seriously think because the wrestler lay on the ground and tried to break Ali legs that makes him a better fighter, then you need medical help. The FACT is no top UFC fighter or MMA fighter or a wrestler could beat even a mediocre boxer in boxing ring, notice that I didn't say they could not beat a good, very good or excellent boxer in boxing ring, the likes of a Floyd Mayweather, Manny Pacquiao or a Bernard Hopkins......no...no no .....I said that NO TOP UFC FIGHTER OR MMA OR A WRESTLER COULD BEAT EVEN A MEDIORCE BOXER IN A BOXING RING. I’m talking your everyday average journey man. However I reckon most top boxers could beat average UFC fights in an octagon.
Also now I think about, even if the best boxer went 1 on 1 aganist the best UFC fighter in an octagon, then boxer would win. If your life depended on it who would you go for : A peak Tyson Vs Chuck Liddell (Or any UFC fighter) in an octagon ? The thing is UFC guys don't fight; they just do moves which stop the other person from fighting. There is a difference. You watch their fights on 'youtube' and the punches are just sloppy and they just look awful. | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 6/20/2007 8:16:12 AM | I do not understand WHY some people are determined to compare MMA and boxing...they're two separate sports, different rules, training, skills and equipment . May as well try to compare apples and oranges.
I will not even attempt to say which is a better sport or which one has the better athletes. Why? refer to my point about two different sports. A boxer will be as much out of his element in a MMA even as a MMA fighter would be in a boxing match. In a MMA event, the fighter could take the boxer to the ground with ease and pursue to dominate with the ground and pound or submission methods since boxers aren't trained in take down defense. However, put a MMA fighter in a boxing right, and they're likely to be dominated there since they can't utilize all of their training.
Why does there have to be a "feud" between the two sports, each have their place. | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 6/20/2007 12:07:46 PM |
UFC, MMA, wrestling is just for BUMS who can not box.
Has it occured to you that they are not boxers?
I watched the fight with Ali and the wrestler. All the wrestler done was stay on the ground and kick at Ali legs. That's all he done. He lay on the floor, seriously, watch the tape. If he would have fought toe 2 toe with Ali then there would have only been one winner.
Ali v Inoki (a pro wrestler) was years before MMA existed, so ranks as only slightly more relevant than Balboa v Thunderlips in Rocky 3
NO TOP UFC FIGHTER OR MMA OR A WRESTLER COULD BEAT EVEN A MEDIORCE BOXER IN A BOXING RING. I’m talking your everyday average journey man. However I reckon most top boxers could beat average UFC fights in an octagon.
Exactly what is this opinion based on? Considering Frans Botha is 2-6 in K-1 and Remy Bonjasky Ko'd Ray Mercer in ultra quick time. Art Jimmerson fought in UFC 1 and was beaten by Royce Gracie. Vitor Belfort has had a couple of pro boxing fights and won them.
Also now I think about, even if the best boxer went 1 on 1 aganist the best UFC fighter in an octagon, then boxer would win. If your life depended on it who would you go for : A peak Tyson Vs Chuck Liddell (Or any UFC fighter) in an octagon ? The thing is UFC guys don't fight; they just do moves which stop the other person from fighting. There is a difference. You watch their fights on 'youtube' and the punches are just sloppy and they just look awful.
Again, you are passing your hypothetical opinion as fact. If the MMA fighter "stopped" the boxer from fighting, what would the boxer do? | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 6/20/2007 1:59:59 PM | rofl at the op.
Any legit martial artist with even a modicum of talent will take a boxer because they have more weapons at their disposal.
That's not to say that boxers aren't tough, its just that they don't focus on their other skills aside from punching and footwork. | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 6/20/2007 5:15:41 PM | Hey Kunta, you are wrong and I have proof. Unfortunately for you , you are so ignorant that you didnt realize that a mediocre boxer DID enter the UFC and lose.
His name was Art Jimmerson and he tapped out in minutes to Royce Gracie.
Here is some info:
<div class="quote"> Art Jimmerson was a boxer, based in St. Louis, Missouri, who competed at super middleweight, light heavyweight, cruiserweight and heavyweight.
On November 12th, 1993 Jimmerson competed in UFC 1, an early mixed martial arts competition, losing to Royce Gracie while wearing one boxing glove. He tapped out after being taken to the ground despite not being in a submission hold. This was his one and only MMA fight. When, in November 1993, Jimmerson competed at UFC 1 he had a professional boxing record of 29-5.
so he was 29-5 which I think is a better than mediocre record yet he got taken down and gave up when he realized he could nto get away...NOT ONLY THAT but they guy wasnt even in a chokehold or armlock.
So try again, harder this time please.
All you have to go on is speculation and dont hate due to the fact that everyday boxing ratings go down and mixed martial arts ratings go up.
For the record Fedor would have DESTROYED and I mean DESTROYED Mike Tyson in his prime.
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 6/20/2007 6:06:20 PM | If boxers were so dominant, we'd see more of them in the UFC. You take all the hypotheticals and draw conclusions based on opinion or you can use common sense. If a boxer could step into an MMA circle and dominate so easily then why haven't we seen one do so yet? Not one boxer holds a major league MMA title.
I have been a boxer and an MMA fighter, and fought competitively in both. You cannot compare the two in terms of fitness. It requires a lot more stamina to grapple and wrestle with somebody than it does to stand there and throw punches. Next time you're at the gym do 10 rounds on the heavy bag. 5 with only boxing, and then 5 with kickboxing. See which one tires you out sooner. Then find a partner to wrestle with and then draw your conclusion to which one is more physically demanding.
Comparing Tyson in his prime to Liddell in his prime is unfair. Tyson is one of the most dominant boxers to ever step in the ring. Not to mention that those two aren't even in the same weight class. If you'd like to compare Mike Tyson to Fedor Emelianenko then you're singing a different tune. Because Fedor would run over Tyson. | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 6/21/2007 12:49:56 PM | | Boxers track record in MMA is fairly poor even in K1 where you'd think they'd have a decent shot they're having a hard time | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 6/21/2007 2:48:59 PM | Why don't MMA or UFC fighters ever try there hand at boxing ? There is more money to made in boxing, more prestige, more world wide recognition, more fame, more glory......more everything. The reason is because if they did it would set the sport of UFC or MMA back years, for they would get thoroughly embarrassed. Look at the physique of a Chuck Liddell. He is supposed to one the best guys in UFC, yet he come fat and over weight. UFC fighters only have a two week training camp. Top boxers have 6 week training camps. The fitness levels required for boxing far and away exceed that of UFC or MMA.
Come over to boxing if you dare !!!
Let’s see how good when you can’t run at someone like a monkey and do a choke hold on him. Lets see what your like 8 and 9th round of hard fight, lets see if you can take punch after punch for round after round, lets see if you can't get cut and still carry on fighting, let see how good your footwork is, how sharp your reflexes are, let's see how hard you hit. UFC is just for guys who can’t box or boxers who are past the prime. I reckon if the heavyweight boxing champ Klitschko came into UFC he would kick a_r_s_e and I don’t really rate klitschko !!!
UFC is going to go the same way as kickboxing. Remember that ? It's gonna be flavour of the month for a bit then it's gonna dissappear. | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 6/21/2007 9:58:18 PM | If UFC fighters are so great then why don't they come over to boxing and make millions ?
Because most are awful boxers and many aren't very good at any striking art. Most are Jacks of multiple trades,masters of none(or 1). Still, because the money is better in boxing doesn't mean that MMA fighters aren't as good or better at .....FIGHTING!
A young peak Mike Tyson Vs Chuck Liddel in boxing ring ?
A young peak Mike Tyson Vs Chuck Liddel in an Octagon ?
Actually, I think Tyson would knockout Liddel in the Octagon just as Jackson did...but put Fedor Emelyanenko against Tyson in the Octagon and Tyson is tapping out in 2 minutes. Now of course Tyson beats Fedor in the ring in 1 rd also. Get the picture now?
A boxer has the edge on fitness levels, defence, stamina, ring craft etc boxers have to be prepared to fight for 12 rounds. UFC fights rarely go the distance. They have no fitness, no stamina. Thats simply absurd! I boxed golden gloves and I went out for wrestling after being cut from the basketball team as a sophmore in HS(Yes, I played Varsity the next year) I've got to tell you,wrestling practice was the toughest training I've EVER gone through. I've since picked up Muay Thai. But I'll admit to quitting the wrestling team,besides.....being a 6'1 138 lbs 14yo worked better for boxing than for wrestling. My point is that wrestling training is 1 of the most demanding ANYWHERE. As for boxing....there are some worldclass boxers who are in EXCELLENT shape. Then there are boxers like former 1belt champ Hasim Rahman and worse.....Butterbean. Compare them to any olympic wrestler or any top ranked MMA fighter with a traditional wrestling mastery. Watch those former boxers who have crossed over into MMA and see how hard they breathe after a round or 2.
1)MMA fighters are NOT as good at boxing as boxers
2)Boxers mostly aren't as good at MMA
3)MMA training is TOP NOTCH! Top 10 hevyweight MMA fighters as a group are in better shape than top 10 heavyweight boxers.
4)due to styles....I believe a peak Tyson would beat Lidell in ring OR octagon.
5)MMA made a stunt by saying they'd match UFC lightwieght champ against former lightweight champ Floyd. This was a ploy and a JOKE! Floyd is a natural 140 lbs fighter(although he was fighting for the 154 crown). In UFC a lightweight is 155lbs. Now,Joe Calzaghe vs Sean Sherk could be interesting in the OCtagon due to their styles. Also, Welter alphabet champ Kermit Cintron has said he would love the challenge of fighting a MMA champ even Sherk at 155. Fo course it wsould be a MMA fight since Cintron was a wrestler in HS. OF xourse, it would be much more difficult than he may think in my opinion. Boxing and wrestling doesn't prepare you for a flying knee or a kick. Still, I'd say advantage Cintron(if he trains well).
5)MMA fighters while very good at mixed martial arts, and are in TOP NOTCH shape,my mark against them as a group is that even the top fighters have very suspect chins. A puncher with good boxing ablity ala prime Mike Tyson would have a chance even against Fedor in the Octagon. Tyson with good grappling skills...kills Fedor..and Fedor is the greatest MMA fighter in the last decade or more. | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 6/22/2007 2:58:49 AM | I think you go that wrong, Boxing can't compare it's self to UFC...infact for entertainment value it couldn't even lace up a wrestlers boots.
A typical boxing match is 20% hits, 20% posturing and 60% dancing about pretending there getting ready for a hit.
UFC where as is 50% fighting and 50% submission.
Would I rather watch Ricky Hatton or Tito Ortiz...Ortiz as your guarenteed a top class match and he never pulls out a fight due to a small injury. | |
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| UFC can not compare itself to boxing.
Posted: 6/22/2007 3:40:45 AM | why has this even been brought up? i looked at this thread with curiosity and found just as i thought... it was a complete load of garbage. boxing and ufc... why would they be compared? they are so disimilar apart from them being combat sports!
a boxer would not treain in the same way as a ufc fighter, would not prepare the same as a ufc fighter and would have a completely different mindset. money is not the object or why wouldnt everyone be a football player and earn millions. its what your into and what you find challenging and exciting.
at the same time i dont think the ufc would want to compare itself to boxing. as boxing goes it is very respected for the skill levels people need to be the best, people in the ufc have to be versatile in order to succeed. where's the comparison?
what the hell is the need for this thread! | |
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