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| Ignorance as bliss? Smart vs happy?
Posted: 6/19/2007 1:11:57 PM | There's no shortage of very bright people in the world. On the flip side, there are far more average to below average people than very bright.
It has been said that ignorance is bliss, in that sometimes knowing something will not only not make us happy, but may in fact make us unhappy.
There are examples of this everywhere, where people exercise willful or incidental ignorance in their lives. Those who talk of "learned optimism" argue that those who are happiest often exercise the ability to ignore or self-delude themselves when it comes to experiences of pain and suffering, or to blot out from their conscious awareness of those things that would make us fearful, fill us with anxiety, or give us cause for concern.
For example, the majority of people if given the option would rather never know when they are going to die, whether they have a genetic predisposition for illness, if the company they work for is in financial difficulty, or if the economy is headed for rough waters.
This begs a few questions.
Given a choice, would most people choose to be highly intelligent and aware of the true nature of things, or would they rather be ignorant and happy?
Is the quest for "truth" worth sacrificing the possibility of personal happiness? Or is the search for "truth" something that may either be unattainable, or not worth pursuing in some instances due to the emotional cost?
How correlated is intelligence with happiness? Are those with a clear view of reality at a disadvantage in terms of achieving personal fulfillment and happiness?
How many would trade some portion of their intellect if they knew it would make them happier? How many wish they could sometimes?
Just some wandering thoughts. | |
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| Ignorance as bliss? Smart vs happy?
Posted: 6/19/2007 1:53:54 PM | | In general, I've always found myself happiest when I know as much of the truth as possible. There are certainly exceptions. I wouldn't choose to know the date of my death. However, if I were subject to a terminal illness, I'd rather know about it as soon as possible so that I could enjoy my remaining time and end things as responsably as possible. I'd rather not know that I was just one number short of winning a lottery or something of that nature. However, when it comes to anything where decisions can have an important impact on quality of life, I find that greater longer-term happiness is always achieved when more truth is known. | |
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| Ignorance as bliss? Smart vs happy?
Posted: 6/19/2007 2:13:09 PM | I'm obviously missing something here. What does intelligence have to do with having a clear view of reality? There are plenty of intelligent people who are quite capable of deluding themselves.
There are too many assumptions here (incorrect ones, in my opinion) to answer the questions you pose. For example:
Given a choice, would most people choose to be highly intelligent and aware of the true nature of things, or would they rather be ignorant and happy?
This seems to imply that you can't be intelligent and aware and still expect to be happy. I can only go by my own personal experience, but I'd say that's incorrect. I think one of the reasons I am happy is because of my intelligence, because I like learning and knowing how the world really works. Not that the truth is all sunshine and roses, but it isn't all doom and gloom either. I'm intelligent enough, and apparently of the right psychological make-up, to find ways to cope with the bad stuff without pretending it doesn't exist.
However, when it comes to anything where decisions can have an important impact on quality of life, I find that greater longer-term happiness is always achieved when more truth is known.
Agree completely. If you know what to expect, you can plan for it, and the smarter you are, the more likely you will be successful in your planning. | |
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| Ignorance as bliss? Smart vs happy?
Posted: 6/19/2007 2:22:24 PM | Ignorance is Bliss, but Knowledge is Freedom.
Personally, imagine if you had an IQ of 190. You were so amazingly intelligent that you understood concepts almost instantly. You flew through school, no topic ever gave you a challenge because you caught on instantly. Eventually you hit the Philosophy topics, the questions which every person (hopefully) ponders. Meaning to life, Does God exists, etc...You develop your own theories based on your already beautiful mind, filled with all this knowledge you've gathered (as your IQ is 190, I am sure your thirst for knowledge is unquenchable. ) and you've accepted your theories as the truth, and are perfectly content with them.
You now sucked the joy out of life. Can you imagine? You know and understand everything. Death? You don't fear it, you know whats on the other side (or so you place trust in your theory and thats as good as knowing for you). That beautiful sunset? It's lost it's charm now that you know exactly how it works and why.
Part of what makes life so amazing is the constant learning experience. Being challenged, enjoying things, taking interests. If you understand everything, if there are no challenges, if you needn't spend more than 10 seconds before you become a master at something; then where is the joy? You'll spend you life in solitude sitting in your room continuously feeding your hungry mind until it all ends.
I'd rather be average. Not dumb as a post, but not a genius. Got to study to learn, practice to become better.
There is some hard evidence that the smarter you are, the more negatives you possess.
It's a balance theory. If you're a genius, chances are you're going to have some pretty serious demons. Take a look at Stephen Hawking. His IQ is ENORMOUS. He spews forth Time Theories and Creation theories like kindergarten math. He eats Advanced Quantum Physics for breakfast.
But he can't move.
All that intelligence, all that energy is in his incredibly powerful brain. None is left over for his body. I've checked this out myself, and I know plenty of people who have high IQ's that suffer from certain things. One fella I know has an IQ of 150. He knows math and physics (the language of the universe) easily. Learns it without a problem. But when it comes to learning english, he fails HARD. Has many issues reading and writing. His social interaction abilities have also taken some hits. But he has a glorious mind for math.
So being the jack of all trades is definitely the best route, I find. | |
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| Ignorance as bliss? Smart vs happy?
Posted: 6/19/2007 3:06:29 PM | | At first truth seeking leads through brambles and over rocks, an unpleasant journey, as the world appears starkly deranged, cold, doomed. The faint of heart turn around or stop in their tracks. The brave and curious who continue eventually find in hard won wisdom a second kind of ignorance, the bliss coming from a knowledge of knowledge itself, free of the emotional enslavement of youthful reactionism. | |
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| Ignorance as bliss? Smart vs happy?
Posted: 6/19/2007 3:40:40 PM |
Given a choice, would most people choose to be highly intelligent and aware of the true nature of things, or would they rather be ignorant and happy? This seems to imply that you can't be intelligent and aware and still expect to be happy.
I implied nothing of the kind. I merely offered a choice in order to determine one's values. While there are those that may be able to see things clearly and still remain happy, this was not the question of whether it was possible to be both (which may or may not be possible or easily achievable), but as to which one would prefer. | |
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Hoop
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Joined: 5/1/2006
Msg: 8 | |
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| Ignorance as bliss? Smart vs happy?
Posted: 6/19/2007 7:18:07 PM | I think a persons happiness depends on how they choose to deal with the knowledge they gain. Is the glass half empty or half full?
Example: Learning about starving children in third world countries would seem to be a depressing situation to most people.
If you never knew about it would it bother you? No
If upon learning you decided to go there and donate your time to help them would that make you feel happiness? Maybe because you were doing something to hopefully make things better. It may bring you more sadness and depression because you find out how overwhelming the situation is and how few people are willing to help and how the ignorance of the people you are trying to help is keeping them from helping themselves.
If upon learning you decide to send in a donation of money to help out. Would that make you feel happiness. Probably yes. Why? I think because you convince yourself that you're a good person and you're doing a good thing. That's all you want to know. You want to stay ignorant to whether your money really made a difference or not and you really don't want to know anymore about it other than you you feel better because you sent them money.
If upon learning you don't feel depression , but instead you feel anger because you feel it's their lack of knowledge that is causing the problem. You don't give them a fish, you teach them how to fish, but if they don't want to learn, then why waste your time feeding them. This is a case where knowing of other peoples ignorance bothers your hapiness. You can't help those that don't want to help themselves so instead of letting it bother you, you try ot push it from your mind and replace it with something that does make you happy. | |
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| Ignorance as bliss? Smart vs happy?
Posted: 6/19/2007 8:23:22 PM | Knowledge is power.
~~~ Power is freedom.
~~~ Power corrupts.
Happiness is a choice.
Integrity is a choice.
Exceptionally intelligent (IQ and EQ) individuals can be perfect chameleons.
Chameleons can blend into any background which they choose for as long as they choose.
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Ignorance is only bliss until you've had the barest hint of knowledge - after that, ignorance might become a shameful trap from which you seek escape. | |
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| Ignorance as bliss? Smart vs happy?
Posted: 6/19/2007 8:45:01 PM | Steven Hawking - If he had chosen not to exercise his intellectual abilities his quality of life right now would probably be much lower. Who pays much attention to the crippled, the dying, the afflicted unless they have something really astounding to say?
Ignorance is a two-sided edge. Take the case of a young child whose ignorance allows him the joy in the belief Santa Claus will bring him treasures on Christmas morning. That same ignorance also creates the terror that he will be sucked down the drain along with the bath water.
I opt for knowledge. | |
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| Ignorance as bliss? Smart vs happy?
Posted: 6/19/2007 10:06:58 PM |
I think a persons happiness depends on how they choose to deal with the knowledge they gain. Is the glass half empty or half full?
Example: Learning about starving children in third world countries would seem to be a depressing situation to most people.
If you never knew about it would it bother you? No
I think this is a perfect example of the idea I'm talking about. People talk a lot about the desire to know and understand reality, but most human beings choose to remain ignorant, or choose to become willfully ignorant.
Another example would be when you objectively view a human conflict like ethnic cleansing in Darfur or the former Yugoslavia. Where it is easy to see the flawed logic that false justifications that are used not only by those that exploit sentiment to incite the public to commit atrocities, but those participants that choose to participate in those atrocities, as well as those governments that choose to do nothing, or do little and claim to have done something, or the individuals that push it from their minds and then focus on relatively insignificant issues. After all, getting Huck Finn out of those schools is obviously so much more important than the sum of human suffering!
Which leads us back to the original problem, ie, it would be awfully hard to be happy if everyone fully grasped the scope of human suffering in the world. Even more difficult if one considered that much of it was a result of man's inhumanity to man. And perhaps unbearable if one were to consider that as much suffering was caused by willful neglect as by concerted effort by the bulk of humanity.
Keep in mind, this isn't supposed to be a depressing thread, just one that explores the paradoxical nature of intelligence, knowledge, wisdom, ignorance and happiness.
Honk when your head begins to hurt.  | |
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| Ignorance as bliss? Smart vs happy?
Posted: 6/20/2007 1:40:01 AM | Is a happy meal really happy?
Was life easier when I didn't know the things i know now, and not knowing somethings made me less intelligent then i am now? We simply don't know what we don't know and when we know better we do better unless we are greedy little buggers that can by pass our own moral and ethical wiring.
If something becomes common knowledge does it make any difference at all? Its common knowledge that fast food isn't good for us yet its a multi billion dollar industry. Its common knowledge that they are destroying rainforest's for us to consume happy meals. Its common knowledge that people are starving and dying in the world and a simple google will tell us how many people that is. Would that make us smarter knowing these things?
Or would it be an intelligent thing to make a response to the information we learn? I don't think knowing is intelligence. Doing something is intelligent, even if it is something small. I didn't become vegan because of the ethical reasons however after learning as much as i have i can see my choice is intelligent because it saves one acre of rain forest a year. And i'll do more to save more thats for sure, not because it seems intelligent to do so but because without the rain forest we won't be able to breathe... that doesn't take to much intelligence to understand.
As humans we leave a footprints ecological, and collective moral and ethical ones. We can choose how much impact our choices make on the world by our every day choices. Intelligent choices leave small foot prints and even combat the bigger ones made by less intelligent people who are driven by greed. I wouldn't know what my iq is and really don't care, my spelling is terrible and i often have to look up the meaning of words people use on the forums to understand what they mean. Its impossible to live completely self sufficient and self sustaining so we all contribute to the horrors of the world no matter how high and mighty some may think they are. There are people who die of starvation and by the hand of war so we are all responsible on some level even if we can't see the choices we made that led to their death. Just because we don't believe in these things doesn't separate us from the shared responsibility for what happens in our world. An intelligent person would see this. A smart person can shift the responsibility and accountability to others.
Next time you spark up the barbie think about the acre of rain forest you are destroying... The next time your driving your car think about the carbon footprint you are leaving and what impact that might have. Then think about how many other millions of people are doing the same... Our happiness it seems has a price if these things make us happy. And if making a difference makes us happy then our heart seems to be in the right place doesn't it... We can only try our best with what we know and even then we have so much to over come to be intelligent beings.
crazylilting | |
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| Ignorance as bliss? Smart vs happy?
Posted: 6/20/2007 4:49:34 AM | You seem to center all aspects of emotional wellbeing or "not" around psychological processes, which the truth is, emotional and mental wellbeing are a product of experiences learned externally and through their own desire to educate and be educated on ways to resolve conflicts in themselves and around others.
For many this takes a lot of work, and healing the past, or learning wisdom and moving from a place of being focused only on yourself, to joining a larger process of helping other people, and being content with the present moment, as it is -- requires a strong understand, an education in faith, and someone devoted to being at peace.
Some learn these behaviors and move from incompetent/unconscious through competent/unconscious before they even reach their teen years, while others don't learn these skills at all, as a result of violence in their lives, their location, their culture, -- sometimes it's just plain misfortune.
In the end, everyone in the world is doing the best they can to improve their quality of life and to live well, given their model of the world. Sadly some don't understand that by taking at the expense of others, doesn't necessarily create the conclusion they were hoping for, at least not long term. | |
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| Ignorance as bliss? Smart vs happy?
Posted: 6/20/2007 7:43:52 AM | happiness and sadness is the end result conclusion when a person views the reality they chose, it is like they chose to see the world through a glass lens.
this lens has been crafted by that persons life experiences, of both success and failure. but since the person has grown up, they need to realise that they cannot be controlled by there own past experiences, they have the ability and responsibility to chose how they should view their own world, there own happiness depends on it.
realising that we have the ability to question ourselves, our actions, have the ability to change how we think and act, as well as how we view reality through (the glass lens we chose to look through), realizing our own capability is half the battle, the other half is actually doing it *laughs* our own happiness depends on it. | |
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| Ignorance as bliss? Smart vs happy?
Posted: 6/20/2007 8:41:47 AM | Truth is subjective to belief. If you believe that the happiness you have is based on a truth, you will never know of said ignorance. My truth and perception is likely different from any others view of truth. Ignorance, or denial of truth is another truth.
Smart vs Happy? I am both, as many others claim for themselves. | |
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| Ignorance as bliss? Smart vs happy?
Posted: 6/20/2007 10:35:31 AM | | I just thought i would mention that someone who might be that intelligent would understand these things intellectually, and since there is a greater reality to who we are then just an intellectual one, this person would have just as much to learn as the rest of us, IQ means nothing, it was created by humans who dont know enough about what intelligence is to create a test, but for some reason people seem to but into these tests. | |
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| Ignorance as bliss? Smart vs happy?
Posted: 6/21/2007 2:48:48 PM | Just a few quotes that I thought sort of related to the topic .
Many persons have a wrong idea of what constitutes true happiness. It is not attained through self-gratification but through fidelity to a worthy purpose.
~Helen Keller
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.
~The Dalai Lama
Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious.
~Brendan Gill
I am still determined to be cheerful and happy, in whatever situation I may be; for I have also learned from experience that the greater part of our happiness or misery depends upon our dispositions, and not upon our circumstances.
Martha Washington
Stupid is forever, ignorance can be fixed.
Don Wood
The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance.
Socrates
You don't stop laughing because you grow old. You grow old because you stop laughing.
Michael Pritchard
The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge.
Elbert Hubbard
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
Bertrand Russell
To acquire knowledge, one must study; but to acquire wisdom, one must observe.
Marilyn vos Savant | |
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| Ignorance as bliss? Smart vs happy?
Posted: 6/21/2007 4:20:56 PM |
Given a choice, would most people choose to be highly intelligent and aware of the true nature of things, or would they rather be ignorant and happy?
Given the choice, I'd rather be aware of and understand the true nature of things. Understanding how things function is what allows me to achieve the best possible results.
Are those with a clear view of reality at a disadvantage in terms of achieving personal fulfillment and happiness?
Not if they want to take the action(s) necessary to achieve personal fulfillment and happiness. Your 'clear view of reality' most likely will differ from someone else's. There are many things I see clearly and don't like, don't agree with how it's 'being done', see all kinds of mistakes being made....but that doesn't mean I have to accept what I see as being the only alternative. I look for ways around it or the best way through it, and decide that I'm going to do the best that I can. I don't have to become 'like' everyone else in that reality. I can exist within that reality and still do what I know is right for me....that leads to my personal happiness and fulfillment. Am I going to change the world and make a huge difference? Yes....my little world, and it makes a difference to me.
How many would trade some portion of their intellect if they knew it would make them happier? How many wish they could sometimes?
I don't think I have enough extra intellect to use to make a decent trade (lol). Yuh know what would make me really happy? Finding myself in an environment that nurtured and encouraged learning. Being with others who are interested and happy to share their knowledge with someone who wants to understand and learn. | |
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| Ignorance as bliss? Smart vs happy?
Posted: 6/22/2007 1:38:39 PM | The more you learn the more you see how much you have to learn. When I was involved in research I sometimes felt discouraged by the overwhelming and seemingly endless growing mountain of questions and things I didn't begin to understand or things where understandings seemed only just, tantalisingly, out of reach. I spoke with a professor I regarded as being the most intelligent and intelligible regarding this and he assured me that this feeling just continues to grow as you learn, do research and find questions and answers that no-one else has seen before. It's a humbling experience. I never thought highly of my abilities or intelligence despite what anyone has told me or any academic achievements: I always felt slow and ignorant and was impatient with my lack of ability to understand things. But academic intelligence truly is not intelligence to me. The professor I spoke with was not only a professor of mathematics, he also had degrees in psychology, he was responsible for changing the lives of many people through his combination of insight and intellect. Anyway, what I am trying to say is that greater understanding can open our eyes more to our true ignorance and so a less intelligent person may feel happier that they are intelligent compared with one who is painfully aware of the greater depth of their ignorance.
<div class="quote">Is the quest for "truth" worth sacrificing the possibility of personal happiness? Or is the search for "truth" something that may either be unattainable, or not worth pursuing in some instances due to the emotional cost?I used to believe that there was a truth. I liked maths because apart from the fact that I liked to puzzle over things, I liked the exact nature of it: that fact that truth existed and could be proven. It was a sanctuary from real life where there was so much uncertainty, inconstancy, ambiguity and hidden levels of meaning. I certainly considered that truth was worth more than happiness, but I don't think I had the power to make such a choice: I could not see how there could be happiness or anything worth having or experiencing unless it was the result of true things. I wanted nothing that was in any way false and did not cope well with the fact that there is no absolute truth to be found in everyday things: everything is perception.
Eventually I came to realise that imagining that I could pin down the truth of anything in reality was missing the point. I think that if there is an absolute truth about the real world then it is deeper than any one human can accurately perceive because our perceptions are too individual, filtered by our beliefs and our very humanity. I used to get very upset when I had believed something was true and it turned out not to be true (like if people are lying or being misleading), but now I know that I don't know anything. The truth is always there and failure to see it is not the issue... the important thing is not knowing what is true but is more about what we do with the fragments we perceive.
My special someone might not measure as a genius on an IQ test, but I am very impressed with the way he thinks about things. It's not about knowing stuff, it's about what you choose to do with that. I think that love and compassion are far more profound than truth and that in fact perhaps they are like a light that would let us know the truth of the world if we could only put aside the shadows of fear that we all carry. I think that the intelligence that is really worth having is the intelligence that comes from the heart's most loving instincts. Crazylilting explained it wonderfully. I think that the kind of intelligence he described: the intelligence of taking responsibility for all your actions, the intelligence of living with compassion and love, is the kind that leads to truer happiness and to the truth itself: the things that really do matter. Not knowing, perhaps, but loving and acting on that.
"A joyful heart is the inevitable result of a heart burning with love." Mother Teresa | |
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| Ignorance as bliss? Smart vs happy?
Posted: 6/23/2007 12:07:23 PM | How happy? I mean really, really I' allright Jack happy? Happier than a proverbial pig in sh!t happy? Then, yeah...I'd be fine with ignorant.
It's like Billy Joel. Some people say he's arrogant. But before his career took off - when he was struggling through the hard times that provided the fuel for all those lovely lyrics to follow - they locked him up as insane and said he'd amount to nothing.
Now he has a house in the Hamptons. He can pay people to put up with just how f^cking arrogant he feels like being that day. Sounds good to me. | |
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| Ignorance as bliss? Smart vs happy?
Posted: 6/24/2007 1:23:15 PM | I think that the happy would choose to gain a greater understand of the nature of things, while those with that understanding would give it up for bliss.
As, you never know what you had untill it is gone.
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Alzena
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Joined: 6/12/2007
Msg: 24 | |
| Ignorance as bliss? Smart vs happy?
Posted: 6/28/2007 2:14:04 PM | True, IQ and happiness are not always proportionate. Education and happiness is often dispropotionate. You don't know what you don't know and therefore, you can't grieve it or feel the lack of...
I think there is healthy fear and it often comes after a period of denial. Ignoring anxiety and sticking ones head in the sand sounds like s frustrating view of life. Most anxiety and worry are useless becuase the thinks we are anxious and worry about frequently never happen. Making the problem worse, they keep you from being present in the moment, and almost insure future unhappiness.
On the other hand, I reflect on a concept from the Course in Miracles: Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy? With age comes some wisdon, which is differnt than normal intelligence. You learn to let go of the small stuff, and it's all small stufff.
Abe Lincoln said most people are as happy as the choose to be...
I think that being happy must include some delayed gratification and that takes a certian level of intelligence.
There is another level of intelligence takes place when you learn that those external things in life withh never provide happiness. | |
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Alzena
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Joined: 6/12/2007
Msg: 25 | |
| Ignorance as bliss? Smart vs happy?
Posted: 6/28/2007 2:25:53 PM | Hawking is incredable... He has ALS and can only more his eyes slightly, a computer reads the position of his eyes while he types Noble Peace Prize Papers on Black Holes. He even uses this theroy to prove the exisance of God.
I would love to hear from him on the topic. He was a Rhodes scholar who partied though school and didn't get serious about life until he got sick.
I know that self-esttem is a good measure of happiness and it is the byproduct of doing productive things... there fore those will low accompliments would seem to have more anxiety. Especially if they are bright enough to recognize their short commings.
I think being a brilliant a Stephen would be difficult even with verbal communication, becuase there would be less individual whom you could share ideas with. Issolation is probably the biggest cause of unhappiness. | |
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