| Two power stations a week being built in China
Posted: 6/20/2007 7:36:02 PM | There has been a lot of talk about China's apatite for energy and that the west is primarily responsible for the rise through our own consumption.
China says that the west has produced most of the pollution till now in order to get where we are. Agreed. But the west has given China a major leg up, enabling it self to jump out of the forties to the twenty first century thru the west’s technology.
There for I say that they also have a responsibility regarding the environment because of the help that has been given.
What are your thoughts on this subject?
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| Two power stations a week being built in China
Posted: 6/20/2007 7:45:29 PM | What is help you refer to that the West provided China?
So what if the the technology exists, has the west given any kind of incentive for developing nations to adopt them other than a high price tag? eg AIDS medication to Africa.
We in the west, particularly through the efforts of companies like GM, had the technology to mass produce electric cars on a commercially viable scale at least 10 years ago but where are they?
GM cut the project in favor of the more financially lucrative Hummer which pumps out far more environmentally harmful emissions than any other consumer vehicle in the Chinese market - which still has the largest number of cyclists anywhere in the world.
I say, if you want to act all high and mighty, lead by example instead of dictating principles from your soap box (or gas pump) | |
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| Two power stations a week being built in China
Posted: 6/20/2007 7:52:00 PM | Emmissions output by China is just on the verge of passing the USA and very soon will be the largest world contributer to the production of greenhouse gases as well we Nox and So2. This mainly due to a mssive program to build coal fired electricity generation plants, most of which have no pollution equipment.
China will not contribute to controlling its share or air contamiants until it has reached a certain level of GDP per capita.. that is... priorities are first to economic development.
Their stage of development and thinking is no different than where the western world was 50 years or more ago where we essentially polluted ourselves out of existence.
So meeting Kyoto accord targets by develping nations may be dwarfed by what's happening in China | |
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| Two power stations a week being built in China
Posted: 6/20/2007 8:08:40 PM | Couldn't it be argued the wests push for Chinese made products rather than having the businesses here is a direct cause of that?
I mean, increase the number of factories in a country, and they're gunna use more energy..... | |
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| Two power stations a week being built in China
Posted: 6/20/2007 8:30:24 PM | Lol Exactly.
I'm just as guilty of filling up with gas and driving down to the store to buy some cheap Chinese product.
My ethos is a holistic approach.
China is not wanting to go all out to implement environmental technology too reduce pollution.
Though the west’s consumption has raised the standard of living in china thru there adoption of our technologies
So I feel that as we are responsible, they are as well. | |
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| Two power stations a week being built in China
Posted: 6/20/2007 9:06:38 PM | What kind of power stations? Electical, nuclear,or what?
<div class="quote">Couldn't it be argued the wests push for Chinese made products rather than having the businesses here is a direct cause of that?
I mean, increase the number of factories in a country, and they're gunna use more energy.....
There is no reason for this country to depend on products from China. So it increases the use of energy here in this country to have more power plants. I believe in buying USA made products. The unemployed could sure use the jobs. We have unfinished nuclear power plants in this country that were not finished because of a few people b*tching about it. One is located above Charlestown, In. I don't see why solar energy isn't used more. There are alternatives to oil and people who don't work need to stop running somewhere every day. We also are surrounded by oil in the gulf, Atlantic Pacific, and Alaska and other states. Keep your eyes on China. They have the power to knock out our satellites (Russia also) so that could end communication. Goodbye cell phones and computers.No communication here anywhere. Scary thought huh? Yet it is possible and I think China is the one to watch. I think all our troops should come home from all unfriendly nations and protect our borders and take care of our own and let the other countries take care of their own affairs. We can not save the world and trying to help some countries is making other countries hate us. Plus the last 6 years the USA has not had a leader. Expect more
bull as he tries to make something of a good legacy happen, which it won't for there is no possible way. Americans need to cut down on the use of gas. Sorry for the off post part. | |
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| Two power stations a week being built in China
Posted: 6/21/2007 4:56:59 AM | Hi Sassy
The power stations are actualy coal fired with little emition standards.
Each power station puts out per year the same amount as two million cars.So if you do your sums that would be an extra 208'000'000. cars per year in china.
Its funny how sum people can't think out side the square.What atracted me to this site was the fact that is global>>>> people from all over the world not just the united states of America.
I live in New Zealand and like most people in this country get tought geography, have an apreciation and understanding of what is going on in the rest of the world.
Seculism is something that gets to me.We all live in this world together and gone are the days of post war systems. We all breath the same air, so we are all responsible. | |
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| Two power stations a week being built in China
Posted: 6/21/2007 6:45:47 AM | | I think the old saying 2 wrongs dont make a right. I really hope we as a world can wake up and stop destroying our earth before it is to late. We have the opportunity to choose green energy but we all know that there is far more money in dirty sources of power. So it comes down to money versus air......sorry about your luck....AIR | |
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| Two power stations a week being built in China
Posted: 6/21/2007 6:57:52 AM |
We in the west, particularly through the efforts of companies like GM, had the technology to mass produce electric cars on a commercially viable scale at least 10 years ago but where are they?
Electric cars are largely impractical.
GM cut the project in favor of the more financially lucrative Hummer which pumps out far more environmentally harmful emissions than any other consumer vehicle in the Chinese market - which still has the largest number of cyclists anywhere in the world.
While the Hummer is more profitable to build, it is also a very popular vehicle. While gas mileage on the H1 is about 8mpg, I doubt it puts out any more harmful emissions than any other modern and recently built vehicle.
China may have the most cyclists, but according to a recent PBS program on pollution in China, has the most horrendous pollution problem of any industrialize country in the world. They burn coal at a maddening pace.
I say, if you want to act all high and mighty, lead by example instead of dictating principles from your soap box (or gas pump)
The US produces 30% of the world's GDP. | |
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| Two power stations a week being built in China
Posted: 6/21/2007 7:19:39 AM |
There is no reason for this country to depend on products from China
The reason is economics. Shareholders of companies demand higher and higher profits every year (or so we are told) and as such companies that produce 'things' are obliged to find less and less expensive ways to produce these things and sell them for higher profits, which are then passed on to the shareholders.
Presently the least expensive place to produce 'things' (pens, phones, electronics, etc, etc,) is China with a huge pool of workers willing to be employed for a tiny fraction of what workers in North America would tolerate.
If these nameless, faceless shareholders would just stop being so demanding perhaps companies could better address issues responsibly instead of giving them lip service after the profits are calculated.
We could all demand that the companies our mutual funds invest in on our behalf only choose those that don't produce in China, or that put a premium on environmental stewardship, etc.
the west is primarily responsible for the rise through our own consumption
I don't agree. China is just as capable of enacting environmental protection legislation and enforcing it as any other country in the world. It's what they are choosing to do, not what they are being forced to do. | |
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| Two power stations a week being built in China
Posted: 6/21/2007 4:10:03 PM | | Perhaps there needs to be an import tax levied against goods whose origin country have no regard to international efforts to curb greenhouse gases. This would be the appropriate incentive to renegade countries like China and Canada to start pulling their weight. | |
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| Two power stations a week being built in China
Posted: 6/21/2007 4:26:48 PM | But we are the guilty party, we bought the goods and have a high standard of living because of pollution caused by out factories. A bit unfair that we should have the right to deny another country it's due.
The main problem we have concerning Kyoto or any "green " policy is greed and individual nationhood. As long as we have borders and they have borders coupled with we can do whatever the f8ck we want inside our own country this will never end.
I see the elimination of all borders happening long before we eradicate greed from the human condition. | |
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| Two power stations a week being built in China
Posted: 6/21/2007 5:05:07 PM | Global paradigm shifts are having some serious impact via the Chinese economy as well as other parts of the world. The following website has some interesting views for reflection on the situation.
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/video/shifthappens | |
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| Two power stations a week being built in China
Posted: 6/22/2007 3:44:38 PM | Its funny how sum people can't think out side the square.What atracted me to this site was the fact that is global>>>> people from all over the world not just the united states of America.
I live in New Zealand and like most people in this country get tought geography, have an apreciation and understanding of what is going on in the rest of the world.
Secularism is something that gets to me.We all live in this world together and gone are the days of post war systems. We all breath the same air, so we are all responsible.
@ paper dart, Thanks for answering my question. In that case, that is why our country isn't using more coal. China has now passed the states in immison output. I try to keep up with what is happening in the world and I wish all nations would try a little harder to curb emissions and pollution. I was hoping Al Gore would run for president as if ever a man was qualified he is and he is very up on the environment. | |
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Ls1
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Joined: 3/26/2007
Msg: 16 | |
| Two power stations a week being built in China
Posted: 6/22/2007 5:36:34 PM | The quickly increasing manufacturing capacity of China is the biggest reason for it passing the U.S. in greenhouse gas emissions and pollution. This is fueled by the rising demand of cheaply produced Chinese goods which has been benifiting both corporations with higher profits and consumers with much cheaper products.
China will become by far the world's largest greenhouse gas emitter and polluter because they do not adhere to western standards on many things including pollution controls which is made worse by extensive government and bureaucratic corruption.
They could be a lot better if they wanted to.....environmental technology is much better today than 50 years ago, this year the U.S will emitt 1.3% less greenhouse gasses than last year even though their economy grew.
Probably the best way to force China to pollute less is to stop buying cheaper Chinese goods.......and force Walmart & others to be more responsible about who they choose as their suppliers.
Which would mean no more price rollbacks....lol. | |
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| Two power stations a week being built in China
Posted: 6/22/2007 9:27:29 PM | | Well it all comes down to standards, doesn't it? Its not possible to have effective globalism unless its coupled by common tax and environmental regimes. Otherwise its a race to the bottom that is not in anyone's long term interests. | |
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| Two power stations a week being built in China
Posted: 6/22/2007 9:31:30 PM | China just surpassed the US as the biggest producer of CO2 emissions,
thought to cause green house effects...and they are exempt from the Kyoto Protocols,
go figure? | |
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| Two power stations a week being built in China
Posted: 6/22/2007 10:09:17 PM | Thank you Walmart! I suggest everyone keep shopping at Walmart. They only make up 13% of the Chinese economy. Only 70% of what they stock is made in China.
Ok, consider this. How did we beat USSR in the cold war? Now, how is the China/US trade functioning. They are following the same blue print we used on USSR. I hope someone wakes up.
I won't even go into the Chinese monetary system and its protectionist policies.
The shep | |
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| Two power stations a week being built in China
Posted: 6/23/2007 4:48:41 PM |
The reason is economics. Shareholders of companies demand higher and higher profits every year (or so we are told) and as such companies that produce 'things' are obliged to find less and less expensive ways to produce these things and sell them for higher profits, which are then passed on to the shareholders.
Well, I for one could care less if Mfg. Co.'s and shareholders make billions of dollars.
example: Proctor and Gamble made a a substitute for shorting or oil which is used by Lays potato chip co. for non-fat chips. When they tried it out in a few cities they only made millions of dollars in profits so they took it off the market because it did not make Billions. Greed!!! I am far from rich but I would rather pay a little more and see the money and jobs stay here in the USA. We need to get and use a solution to minimize the emissions and pollution for the sake of future generations. It is selfish of us to ruin the earth when there are children and the future children who will suffer for our mistakes. As for Walmart, a long lasting boycott with a message to buy American to sell would have an impression on them and what little roll-back you get there will be other stores to buy from that will understand the message. I don't like the way they treat their employees. Frankly they are treated like crap. SURELY THERE ARE SOME IN USA SMART ENOUGH TO COME UP WITH A SOLUTION. | |
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| Two power stations a week being built in China
Posted: 7/22/2007 4:02:19 PM |  More power plants built the more blue or green collar working chumps to fix the ultities lines, and China may be curropt regime at times, and need to ply local officals, but at least most of these curropt polticians in China invest instructure for the economy that better than some countries in Africa or Latin America where the polticans go blow billions in France on Villas, or spend millions of goverment aid at the Las Vegas casino. China will clean up the power plants overtime in sure, but they are industrializing right now, and just wish the Chinese would let the yaun floating in the trading markets instead of rigging against domestic producers in western nations. China a mix bag, and understand the China delimma that you need to produce high growth to create job or else be civil unrest and that would be undesriable for the whole world, but at the same time China should not make the yuan so cheap it affects efficient use of resources in the west. | |
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| Two power stations a week being built in China
Posted: 7/22/2007 4:16:02 PM | | I want to see a coal fired power plant built in a week. I live 10 miles from one. It took a minimum of 2 years to build it, and they are now building on to it. The addition will take over a year. They also spent 3 months railing in coal before it even fired up. The concrete it takes to build a power plant wouldn't even be set in a week, let alone the other contractors building the cooling lakes and doing the wiring. If they are building 2 a week....it won't take long before 2 a week fall down. | |
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| Two power stations a week being built in China
Posted: 7/22/2007 4:21:46 PM | paper dart
I agree with you in theory BUT
most of the chinese were dirt poor .....like forever
IE
no car for the whole family poor
I think it will be a tough sell to get the Chinese to 'simmer down'
now that they can afford basic stuff we take for granted | |
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| Two power stations a week being built in China
Posted: 7/23/2007 8:17:20 PM | China has a right to produce dog food that kills the dog and toothpaste that is poison while using tradmarked names in order to sell it. China produces a whole bunch of crap let me tell you... They feel that they can do whatever they want becasue most of you people will not care but only the price.
Lets face the facts China is a wasteland full of more people to work than anywhere in the world next to India. They are the cheapest people the world has to offer. China does not have the rules and regualations that the US has. They never will because they cannnot play on our level. Their country would fall to peices if their people had the rights that we have in the US. China is lucky that they can keep their citizens under the barrell of a gun becasue it is the only thing sustaining its society. | |
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