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| Difference forms of discipline...
Posted: 7/2/2007 10:01:06 AM | The "bad words" thread was drifting so I thought I would start another so the OP's post would not get lost.
I spank my children. I respect those who do not.
Here are MY VIEWS on my form of discipline.
First, I only think spanking should be done on children who are between 2 and 12.
Children between 2-4 do not need to have anything explained to them. If "NO" does not work one time, then spank. Little ones can get into big trouble in a blink and their minds are always in the short-term. You gotta get through to them quickly.
Secondly, when a child has a good grasp on the English language (4 or 5), I believe that the child should be able to tell you exactly what he/she is getting a spanking for, BEFORE you spank. If he/she can't tell you, then you talk it out until he/she can. Try to get low enough so you can be on the child's level. Don't "tower" over the child. Make eye contact and make the child do the same when he/she is talking.
Always sit down and make the child lay across your lap. ONLY spank the butt.
NEVER spank while YOU are mad.
ALWAYS hug your child after you spank and tell them that you love them but you do not love what they did.
My children are not afraid of their daddy because I spank, but they do know that if they do something bad that I will spank. No, I do not spank for every little thing, only the big ones like lying, disrespect, cursing, stealing, etc. The little things can be handled with time-out, taking something away from the child, or sending them to their rooms. | |
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| Difference forms of discipline...
Posted: 7/2/2007 10:31:12 AM | | I agree with you totally. Spanking should be the last resort. My kids are to old to spank so taking away privileges works at times. | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 3 | |
| Difference forms of discipline...
Posted: 7/2/2007 11:13:57 AM | Good idea to start a thread.
I disagree with you. Your children are afraid and fear you when you spank. Nobody wishes to be hit.
You say never spank when you are mad. The problem with that is, this is generally when it happens by parents. Parents spank coz they dont know what else to do.
The parents who know other parenting skills will use other means to discipline their children.
IMO Spanking is abuse. There is no grey area with it. Sure it was practiced a lot by parents decades ago but that does not mean it is right. Times are changing and there are more positive ways to teach a child instead of hitting.
Spanking is not a form of discipline in my house. | |
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| Difference forms of discipline...
Posted: 7/2/2007 11:25:41 AM | I have no problem with disagreement.
I hope everyone who post here can leave any personal bashing at the door.
Your children are afraid and fear you when you spank. Nobody wishes to be hit.
No one wishes to be in time-out, nobody wishes for their parents to be disappointed, no one wishes to be grounded. With that kind of thinking, we as parents should not discipline our children at all.
Not saying you are one of these Puck, but I have been around children who's parents do not believe in discipline. These are the kids you do not want to spend the night at your house or have your kids play with. These are those "terrors" you see in grocery stores where the parents are just begging them to behave. These are the kids who will tell their mom/dad to shut up. My two-year old did that ONE time.
It is not fear I am teaching, it is respect and I am showing my children the line between parent and child. I am NOT their friend, I am the parent. I have never sensed anything close to fear in my children, and neither would you. They both say "yes sir", "thank you", and "please" and I never spanked them once to teach them this. | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 5 | |
| Difference forms of discipline...
Posted: 7/2/2007 11:43:42 AM | NO spankings allowed in this thread LOL
Hey Noone, I know many parents who do the same as you. At least you have limits on the spankings.
Its is not that i do not believe in discipline. I just choose to teach my kids and i call it and use positive parenting approaches. There is nothing positive about spanking.
Consequences for there actions are much more effective that fear induced spankings.
Respect is naught taught thru hitting.
You can be a parent and not spank. I have total control of my children. I am a parent first but i just choose to use "other" meds to teach my children. | |
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| Difference forms of discipline...
Posted: 7/2/2007 11:47:46 AM | Personally, I believe spanking is an outdated method of discipline for a child. It teaches children they can hit when they are angry-- even if the parent is calm when doing the spanking. It does not deter bad behavior. Some kids will act out more, out of rebellion at being spanked.
A much better plan is time-outs (one minute per year of age is recommended, so I've been told), taking away priveleges (yes, this can work for a two-year-old), and never NEVER back down!
My son isn't getting into trouble yet. Oh, sure, he'll pitch his little temper tamtrums sometimes, but he's developmentally delayed, so he isn't knocking things over or testing a whole lot of boundaries. (Please don't tell me I'm lucky--I'd love for him to be able to do things like rolling over and sitting up without having to try as hard as he does, even though it comes with the trouble-making!) | |
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| Difference forms of discipline...
Posted: 7/2/2007 11:51:41 AM | point taken.
Let's do examples to keep from being so "across the board" with our thinking. Keep the AGE of the child in mind when answering these.
What do you do when....
1: Your 2 year old loves to jump on couches and the bed. He has already fallen off and hurt himself once, so the "If I do this, it might hurt" thinking has flown out the window.
2: You 6 year old brought a note home saying she cheated on a spelling test.
3: Your 11 year old sneaks out of the house.
4: Your 8 year old keeps interrupting adults when they are talking.
5: Your 4 year old is mean to the family pet.
6: Your 12 year old was caught smoking/drinking.
You can't answer any of these with "My child would NEVER do this." | |
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| Difference forms of discipline...
Posted: 7/2/2007 12:11:42 PM | I don't agree with spanking and yet I don't disagree with it. I have a 2 & 1/2 year old and I haven't had a reason to spank him, I do slap his hand though... I don't know if that's considered the same or not.
Either way, all I know about spanking is from my own past experience. My parents were spanked and have no ill effects from it, and I was also spanked as a young child. I don't remember an incident as I was quite young, but I was told that I was by my parents. I have no memories of abuse or even being scared of being spanked... I think I had more fear in my dad yelling at me than being spanked.
But like we have realized in this forum, everybody's parenting style is different. What I absolutely don't like, in regards with spanking, is when those who don't spank, step in to push their parenting beliefs on the parents that do spank... before I get attacked, I'm not talking about ANYBODY on this thread, just some parents that I've talked to in the past.
I guess I just don't see it as a form of abuse and rather a form of "last resort" discipline. If you consider spanking abuse than perhaps we should stop parents from yelling or raising their voices to their kids as that can bring on a form of verbal or emotional abuse... | |
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| Difference forms of discipline...
Posted: 7/2/2007 12:16:31 PM | | yelling and screaming demean a child IMO. Now, I do use THE VOICE and THE LOOK, both are very effective but only because I already "have my bluff" in. (lol) | |
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| Difference forms of discipline...
Posted: 7/2/2007 12:23:14 PM | My son is extremely intelligent, and I trust his ability, through conversation, to understand what he did wrong. For instance, there was a day when he spit on a child on the school bus. I brought him into the living room when we got home, and I sat on the couch, while he stood in front of me. I asked him what happened. He told me his version of the story. I then read him the note that the driver had sent home, with her version of the story. The stories actually matched almost identically. (This to me shows a sign of honesty, which I appreciated). Then I asked him if he thought his actions were a good thing, or a bad thing. He told me they were a bad thing. I told him that he's right, they were a bad thing. I then asked him if when he does a bad thing, what kind of things happen, good things or bad things. He said bad things. Again, I told him he was right. I then asked him if I love him. He said yes. I asked him if I will always love him. He said yes. I told him that he was right, that he was my son, and that I will always love him. I asked him if he loved me. He told me yes. I asked him if he would ever want to hurt me. He said no. I then explained to him that because I love him and because he's my son, that when he does bad things it hurts my feelings, because I know he's a good boy, and I know he knows how to do good things. I then asked him if I could spit in his face. He said no. I asked why not. He told me that it wasn't nice, and it was gross, and it would make him sad. I said, that's right, so how do you think your friend on the bus felt when you spit in his face? And that's when it seemed to sink in. I then reminded him that as much as I do love him, that I'm the boss, and I'm the mom, and even though I love him, that it's my job to make sure that when he does bad things, he gets in trouble for them, because otherwise, he won't understand that they're bad things. I asked if he understood, he said yes, sadly. I then told him that he was to stand in the corner for the next 15 minutes (the one minute per year thing I don't find long enough, but I also won't go overboard). He walked over, crying, but calmly to the corner, and stood there. By using this method, I am explaining to him what he did wrong, but I'm involving him in the conversation, to make sure he's understanding. I find this a lot more successful.
I want my son to learn to RESPECT me, not FEAR me. I don't ever want to see my son flinch when I walk towards him. That would break my heart.
I, myself, was raised with abuse. Not spanking, ABUSE, by my mother's husband. Therefore, I swore to myself my entire life, that I would never raise my hand to my children. However, I also can't stand parents that don't discipline at all, because the children need to be taught and reprimanded for their actions. I just don't think that hitting solves anything.
And plus, let's say my son is in trouble for punching a kid in school, and then I spank him to teach him that we don't hit. I am a hypocrite. I can't teach not to do bad things by doing bad things. That would be like saying, "We don't f*cking swear!" | |
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| Difference forms of discipline...
Posted: 7/2/2007 12:26:58 PM | The thing, too, with the "last resort" discipline that worries me, on a personal level, is that, if I have to resort to spanking my son at 5, when nothing else works, what will I have to do at 12? Punch him in the face? It's like if you take one aspirin for a headache for 3 years, eventually you become immune, and need to up the dose. If I spank my 5 year old for every instance where it's "last resort", by the time he's 7 or 8, that won't cut it anymore. The thought of that worries me.
Again, though, I was raised with abuse, so I'm a little touchy on the whole concept of hitting my child, even if I understand the difference between spanking for discipline, and abusing. I guess part of me is afraid that a) my son will fear me, rather than respect me, and b) that if I allowed myself to open that gate, where I allowed myself to raise a hand to my son, I'm afraid that because of "environment influencing behaviour" that I may not close that gate again, and that spanking will be the only form of punishment that will work. | |
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| Difference forms of discipline...
Posted: 7/2/2007 12:39:44 PM | And plus, let's say my son is in trouble for punching a kid in school, and then I spank him to teach him that we don't hit. I am a hypocrite.
My thinking is different here. By the way, this is probably the number 1 argument against spanking a child.
I do not tell my daughter it is wrong to hit. I tell my daughter to make sure it is worth it when she does hit because I am going to spank her when she gets home. I have an example of this.
My daughter came home with a bruise on her arm. I asked her what happened. She said there was a boy in her class that thought it was funny to hit her. I told her to tell her teacher. Nothing happened. I went to school and talked to the teacher. Nothing happened. I then set my daughter down and told her sometimes you have to take matters into your own hands. I said the next time he hits you, smile, walk up to him and hit him square in the nose. She immediately asked if she was going to get a spanking. I said "not from me" but probably from your teacher. She came home that night, smiling and said the little boy ran off crying. I asked her if she got "licks". She said yes but she didn't even feel it. No more trouble from that kid.
Now, what would have happened if the little boy would have fought back? My daughter might have toted an extra bruise or two, but something would have been done via the school. As it happened, I made another trip to the school and apologized for my daughter's behavior but also made it clear that both she and I had brought it to their attention with no results. The principal said "off-record" that he would have done the same thing.
Remember, we are talking about 5 year olds.
Hitting is NOT wrong every time. My children will be taught self defense. If someone hits them, I want them to knock their GD lights out. | |
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| Difference forms of discipline...
Posted: 7/2/2007 12:50:19 PM |
Your children are afraid and fear you when you spank. Nobody wishes to be hit.
Um...just for your information pucks. How do YOU know his kids are afraid? Now you're going way over the line here. I suggest that you take it back a little as now you're acting as if you know other peoples kids. It's great that you wish to share your opinions like the rest of us, but you have to realize when you're getting to far involved and where you're overstepping the boundary. | |
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| Difference forms of discipline...
Posted: 7/2/2007 12:54:36 PM | I understand where you would have a certain view of spanking because of your past. I would say I am sorry but I know pity is not what you want.
I think that most people who are dead set against spanking have this "skewed image" in their heads of what spanking actually is.
There is this image of a child being picked up by one arm and beat with a belt as he runs around in a circle screaming. The strikes hit his leg and back and the child is begging for the dad to "please, stop".
Does this happen?....yep
Is the child being taught correctly?....nope
Is there some psycho damage being done to the child?...yep
Is this the way all parents who spank act?.....nope.
Let's flip the coin.
I get an image of a child who does not get spanked, tearing the house up, jumping off of furniture, throwing fits in the floor, screaming at their parents, just being a total little sh*t.
Does this happen?...yep
Is the child being taught correctly?...nope
Is there some psycho damage being done to the child?...yep
Is this the way all parents who do not spank act?...nope
My point is simply this: The extremes of both cases are EQUALLY harmful to the child.
Spanking is not an extreme. It is simply one of many ways to discipline a child. Just because a parent spanks DOES NOT mean that is the only way he/she punishes a child. It is just ONE way. | |
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| Difference forms of discipline...
Posted: 7/2/2007 1:01:43 PM | I much agree with the posts on here. Spanking in my parents house was only used when other methods were not "fit" for the situation. Most often time-outs were used. But eventually that wears off. We can't use time-outs anymore for my siblings as they're 10 and 11 and it doesn't suit for their age anymore. Time-outs work better for the little ones, while taking away privileges like video games, etc. if more age appropriate for the older kids.
There are many parents out there who fear doing the wrong thing for their children, and often the kids start taking advantage of it. One thing that I suggest for all parents (not just single parents) is to watch Super Nanny. It's a GREAT show and teaches very valuable tips. I watch it all the time and find it facinating. If you're not hard on your kids when it's needed, they will start taking advantage of you. Normally that's for the younger ones.
When in doubt, seek advice before trying something. And when in doubt, take yourself out of the situation so that your anger doesn't get the best of you. Always make sure you're calm before diciplining your child. Otherwise you could easily take it out of hand. | |
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| Difference forms of discipline...
Posted: 7/2/2007 1:27:13 PM | When I had my daughter, I thought a lot about what form of discipline I thought would be most effective. I remembered back into my own childhood where spankings were a norm and realized although I quite vividly remember some of the spankings themselves, I have no idea what a single one was actually for.
However I do remember....
Coming home and seeing everything from my bedroom in my living room. It stayed there for a week. If I didn't want to clean and take care of my room then there was no reason for me to have nice things....
Having my 11th birthday slumber party canceled because I decided shop-lifting was a cheaper way to go....
Spending the school dance home on my couch because I thought it would be ok to tell mom to "Shut Up".....
Sitting on the steps for 4 hours holding my brothers hand to teach both of us that arguing was just going to get both of us in trouble.....
so on and so on
I'm not saying any of these things would work for all kids but they were things that actually impacted me and taught me life lessons. Spankings do nothing but solve the problem (and I use those words loosely) for that moment but are forgotten as quickly as they are given out. | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 17 | |
| Difference forms of discipline...
Posted: 7/2/2007 2:15:42 PM | Hottieangel,
Ask a child is they want to be hit? spanked?
Of course none of them do. That is how i know they are scared. You know it too.
i am not forcing my views on anyone. I am simply expressing my opinion on the thread topic.
IMO children today have new needs. By fulfilling these needs, we directly nurture thier ability to cooperate and increase motiviation to yeild their will to their parents. Our children today imo do not require outdated punishment which includes spanking and threats or yelling that will be punished etc. Children have a greater potential and require a new and different kind of support.
As parents are able to speak and act more from love, their children also learn to listen, not only to their parents, but to the feelings of love in their hearts. Spanking does not teach this. They are motivated (from spankings) out of fear. I rather my kids be motivated out of love.
The alternative to punishments/spankings is rewards. There are many others as well. Instead of motivating children with punishment i choose to motivate my daughters with rewards. Instead of focusing on consequences of negative behaviour, positive parenting focuses on the consequences of positive behaviour. Instead of using a negative outcome to motivate children, it uses a postive outcome. There is no greater motivator, other than children inner desire to co operate, than their desire for reward.
Do what you wish. Spank your kids if you wish. I really dont care. I am just expressing my view on this issue.
Rewarding rather than spanking will increase childrens willingness to co operate.
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| Difference forms of discipline...
Posted: 7/2/2007 2:21:31 PM | So your children will be taught that every good deed deserves a reward and every bad one will just be unrewarded?
What happens when they do something good away from you and no reward comes or better yet what if they do something bad and they get a reward? Will it not make them think that the bad act might be a good one since they were rewarded? | |
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| Difference forms of discipline...
Posted: 7/2/2007 4:07:15 PM | Good things happen when you are good, bad things happen when you are bad.
Good things, or "rewards" don't have to be material. You are nice to your friend, that's a good thing. Your friend says, "Thank you" and shares his toy with you, is a good thing, or reward.
You are mean to your friend, that's a bad thing. Your friend no longer wanting to play with you, is a bad thing.
Not all good things are rewards in material ways, or administered by me, the same way that not all bad things involve time outs, or punishments delivered by me, either. | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 20 | |
| Difference forms of discipline...
Posted: 7/2/2007 4:25:48 PM | I never said a reward had to be a present or a dessert. Like Frog Lover said rewards can be verbal praise.
Giving rewards works because you are rewarding your child for positive behaviour and the parent is focusing on the good they do.
Whereas spannking your child focuses the parents attention on the bad that the child does. do you see this? It reinforces the old idea that focuses on the bad, the good does not have the opportunity to come up and be expressed. When you spank a child a lot of attention gets put on a child's negative behaviour.
"THe opposite of punishments is a forgiving attitude that clearly states it is okay to make mistakes and then forget about it and move on". IMO what is more important is nuturing a childs needs and directing them as a parent in ways to make them successful. I do not see spanking as doing this. If you reward a childs positive behviour, that i s what will increase. Rather than look for and focus on a childs mistakes, parents need to try "catching" the child doing things right. At least this is what i try to do . No i am not perfect at catching them but i do often times. Whenever my daughters are moving in the wright direction i acknowledge their success, praise them, and they continue to move in that direction. | |
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| Difference forms of discipline...
Posted: 7/2/2007 5:31:24 PM | i don't believe in spanking. i don't believe in purposely causing my children pain.
i "love" the examples people always give of children who's parents don't spank going nuts in department stores. i can tell you that my kids have never gone nuts in department stores, nor do they jump on the furniture like monkeys, nor do they tell me to "shut up", nor have they ever mistreated a pet. and as far as kids misbehaving in public, in my experience it is the kids screaming while mom/dad drags them by one arm stopping periodically to smack them on the ass, that i see most often.
seriously, you can't say that you think every kid who misbehaves in public comes from a non-spanking home?
also, i often hear spankers say that they "have" to spank because the child is too young to understand & might run out on the street & be hit by a truck. my kids have never touched a hot burner, run out into the street or come into any other danger that supposedly could be avoided by spanking. | |
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| Difference forms of discipline...
Posted: 7/2/2007 7:23:38 PM | wow, rollergrrrl, sounds like your kids are little angels. It's not you to decide how kids are disciplined, spanking may not be for you, but perhaps it works for others.
I knew this thread would turn into a spanking works vs spanking is abuse. Every child needs a different form of discipline. I'm certainly not saying that every child needs to be spanked, but there are alot of instances where spanking did work and was effective, just like sitting a child in time out for 2 minutes would. What works for some doesn't work for others.
I'm a "victim" of spanking and I'm certainly no worse for it. As a matter of fact my parents "ruled with an iron fist" and my 2 brothers and I grew up to know who is boss and were never in trouble and held alot of respect for them. I'm not saying that I'm glad they spanked me, but they definitely did something right in raising us. | |
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| Difference forms of discipline...
Posted: 7/2/2007 8:22:10 PM | ^^^
lol. yeah, they're angels. i said nothing like that. they are well behaved without being spanked.
spanking might "work" (depending what you're trying to accomplish)...but the point is, there are other, non-violent ways to discipline kids....and i choose those ways.
where did i say that it was up to me to decide how people discipline their kids? because i don't believe in spanking? give me a break. | |
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| Difference forms of discipline...
Posted: 7/2/2007 8:39:43 PM | I agree care_bear...It's just like that for time-outs, taking away privileges, etc. It works for some and doesn't work for others just like you said.
We're not saying that spanking should be used for all kids who misbehave, we're just saying that in a lot of cases spanking does work. We need to have faith in parents that they know what they're doing. I think I can say for others that we've had faith that our parents knew what they were doing while raising us. Some unfortunately aren't so lucky.
Do whatever works for you and your kids. Just don't be so uptight about certain diciplining techniques as they CAN work. And spanking isn't really considered "violent". And I'm seeing that people are not understanding what violent means.
Definition: Marked by, acting with, or resulting from great force or Extreme in degree, strength, or effect.
Reading this definition, spanking wouldn't be considered a violent act. A violent act would be beating up a child as means for punishment. Spanking a childs behind is less severe than frantically hitting the child.
I thought I would point out the actual definition of violent, so that those who think it is a violent act to spank, would see that it truely isn't. | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 25 | |
| Difference forms of discipline...
Posted: 7/2/2007 8:55:59 PM | Time outs and rewards can work with any child. With reptition, patience, teaching and time. I have worked with people with iq's less than 70 (that by the way is severvely develelopmentally delayed) and even people with severve disabilites can be taught to behave properly with out punishment and spankings. We as support workers are not allowed to hit. Instead we are trained to teach and motivate.
More so in the past children have been controlled or motivated to behave primarily by the threat of punishment. It is evident here in this thread that when a child starts to misbehave, most parents gut intinct is to threaten the child and use spankings. By using spankings the threat of violence, pain or increaaed suffering is put into effect as a deterrent.
While some of you parents state that using spankings (i call it fear) as a deterrent appears to work, IMO it does no awaken a child's natural motivation to cooperate and to help a parent. Clearly obedience and cooperation are very different. Children need to be a willing helper to be truly cooperative and breaking the childs will with spankings is not the answer.
I believe some of you parents use spankings coz it works well in the short term. Then theres some of you who dont want to spank but just dont know any other way.
My daughters are not spoiled, deaminding, disruptive, disrespectful or unamangeable Sure they have there moments and are not perfect like any average child. I am just using other parenting skills that are more effective IMO. I am not content with hitting my kids. if you are, again i say its your individual choice as parent. | |
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