| girl with a leash has guilty plea thrown out by military judge
Posted: 5/4/2005 2:24:19 PM | By T.A. BADGER, Associated Press Writer
FORT HOOD, Texas - A military judge Wednesday threw out Pfc. Lynndie England's guilty plea to abusing Iraqi detainees at Abu Ghraib prison, saying he was not convinced the Army reservist who appeared in some of the most notorious photos in the scandal knew her actions were wrong at the time.
The mistrial marks a stunning turn in the case and sends it back to square one.
The case will be reviewed again by Fort Hood's commander, Lt. Gen. Thomas Metz, who will decide what charges, if any, England should face. If she is charged, the case would go back to a military equivalent of a grand jury hearing, an Article 32 proceeding, prosecution spokesman Capt. Cullen Sheppard said.
The military judge, Col. James Pohl, entered a plea of not guilty for England on a charge of conspiring with Pvt. Charles Graner Jr. to maltreat detainees at the Baghdad-area prison and a related charge.
The mistrial came after Graner, the reputed ringleader of the abuse, testified as a defense witness at England's sentencing hearing that pictures he took of England holding a naked prisoner on a leash at Abu Ghraib were meant to be used as a legitimate training aid for other guards.
Other photos showed England smiling while standing next to nude prisoners stacked in a pyramid and pointing at a prisoner's genitals.
When England pleaded guilty Monday, she told the judge she knew that the pictures were being taken purely for the amusement of the guards.
Pohl said her statement and Graner's could not be reconciled.
"You can't have a one-person conspiracy," the judge said before he declared the mistrial and dismissed the sentencing jury.
do you think she's "not guilty"? | |
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| girl with a leash has guilty plea thrown out by military judge
Posted: 5/4/2005 4:45:09 PM | Think about it....if it were Americans tortured in a prison ANYWHERE and humiliated like these.The US would ask for the heads of the heads of state if the admitted torturers were not sentenced to the MAX.
Its the hypocracy of America that is hated by most,not the ideas of "freedom".The elitist,racist,imperialistic attitudes and policies not the concept or practice of Christianity that bothers people.There have been no worse incidents of crimes against Christians in the Islamic world in the past 900 yrs than there have been of crimes against Moslems in the Christian world in the past 900yrs.The problem IS and has been elitist/racist/imperialistic policies and practices. | |
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| girl with a leash has guilty plea thrown out by military judge
Posted: 5/4/2005 5:11:21 PM |
Think about it....if it were Americans tortured in a prison ANYWHERE and humiliated like these.The US would ask for the heads of the heads of state if the admitted torturers were not sentenced to the MAX.
Well, that's just not true. About ten years ago a kid was caned in Singapore for doing some vandalism. Were we up in arms with Singapore? No, would we be up in arms if something like this happened to Americans? I don't think we would be.
Its the hypocrisy of America that is hated by most, not the ideas of "freedom".
And the hypocrisy is what that the united states takes away the power of madmen?
There have been no worse incidents of crimes against Christians in the Islamic world in the past 900 yrs than there have been of crimes against Moslems in the Christian world in the past 900yrs.
Well, I don't know about the last 900 years but the last 8 years there sure as hell has been more Moslem aggression. | |
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| girl with a leash has guilty plea thrown out by military judge
Posted: 5/4/2005 7:07:20 PM | mauser.. I'm on noone's side here on this subject, but comparing the sentencing of some people who demeaned and mistreated prisoners is completely different from the spraypainting that kid did back in the 90's. That crap was all over the news and I remember people being split on whether or not to bring him home. He wasn't mistreated. He broke their law and received their punishment in their country. They didn't mask him, degrade him, defile him, and then laugh at how rediculous he looked while leaking the photos to the press.
You bias is overpowering your intelligence. You know this is not a reasonable comparison.
Well, I don't know about the last 900 years but the last 8 years there sure as hell has been more Moslem aggression.
this is false. There's been more EXTREMIST aggression. The united states in the name of liberty, christianity, and Weapons of Mass Destruction did happen to waste about a 50 billion dollars in ordinance taking over a muslim nation, which we have yet to turn back over. I dunno, man.. I get where you're coming from, but I'm having a hard time seeing past your parent's opinions being regurgitated on my screen by your fingers.. | |
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| girl with a leash has guilty plea thrown out by military judge
Posted: 5/4/2005 7:15:24 PM | | Didn't our guys do the prisioners in the rear with broom sticks? They should have the same thing done to them by the victims...The orders might have come from higher up but you can't tell me from the expression on Lundie's face she didn't enjoy torturing those people..... | |
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| girl with a leash has guilty plea thrown out by military judge
Posted: 5/4/2005 9:11:00 PM | | Wait a minute the Hague? We're talking about piling up a few naked people and taking a picture not the My Lai massaacre. Were not speaking of removing fingernails , electric shock, or flaming bamboo, burning peoples houses down, or beheading innocent civilians (which we'll get to later). We're talking about young kids who have seen their friends shot and killed or crippled by roadside bombs. Kids who while serving have seen these enemy combatats detonate car bombs and kill scores of innocent civilians. Where is the out cry to bring the real war criminals like this to trial. Last year we saw an innocent American civilian (Nicholas Berg) and others beheaded on Al Jazzera T.V. Why has this been forgotten? Where is the out cry to bring these people to justice. Or the outcry to bring the Homicide bomber that today killed 50 Iraqi civilians who were trying to make their country a better place. What about the Muslim forces in Darfur that have killed and starved countless civilians to death. You are willing to forget these actions but willing to take up the pitchforks and torches to destroy a young woman who had the guts to answer her nations call to duty. Those of you who are Americans writing how she should be hung should be ashamed of yourselfs. It's obvious you never picked up a pack a rifle and either in peace time or war time honored your country by defending her. Yet you are now ready to take up arms and hang a young lady who has risked her life in the name of her country for taking a few disturbing photos. While I am in no way condoning the actions taken by the guards at the prison please put this in perspective they were some demeaning photographs not dead contractors hanging from a birdge in Falujah. War is not a pretty thing and I'm sure those soldiers on the Bataan death march in WWII would have galdly traded places with any of those prisoners in the famous Abu grahib photos and laughed about it later. | |
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| girl with a leash has guilty plea thrown out by military judge
Posted: 5/4/2005 9:26:35 PM | I believe it was Rumsfeld who suggested that Iraqis were guilty of warcrimes because they simply broadcasted the faces of American POWs. If they are guilty of warcrimes, then Ms. England certainly is.
However, I'm sure she was following orders or there was at least an impression that this behavior was acceptable. A number of prisoners have already been beaten to death by American soldiers and beatings are a matter of routine. It was also Rumsfeld who suggested that it should be ok to beat priosoners up until organ failure occurs.
England's boyfriend got 10 years. She should get the same and Rumsfeld should get more. He's being a pu$$y and letting his troops take the fall. | |
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| girl with a leash has guilty plea thrown out by military judge
Posted: 5/4/2005 9:32:03 PM | | Can you give me the proof on the beaten to death prisoners? I have not heard tis as of yet and I have a hard time believing the media would be trumpting this case if this were true. Please post a link to support your facts so I can see it myself. And no national enquirer links or Moveon.org types. Give me a reputable source please. | |
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| girl with a leash has guilty plea thrown out by military judge
Posted: 5/4/2005 10:51:30 PM | Okay, here's one example.
Army Details Scale of Abuse of Prisoners in an Afghan Jail
By Douglas Jehl
The New York Times
Saturday 12 March 2005
Washington - Two Afghan prisoners who died in American custody in Afghanistan in December 2002 were chained to the ceiling, kicked and beaten by American soldiers in sustained assaults that caused their deaths, according to Army criminal investigative reports that have not yet been made public.
One soldier, Pfc. Willie V. Brand, was charged with manslaughter in a closed hearing last month in Texas in connection with one of the deaths, another Army document shows. Private Brand, who acknowledged striking a detainee named Dilawar 37 times, was accused of having maimed and killed him over a five-day period by "destroying his leg muscle tissue with repeated unlawful knee strikes."
The attacks on Mr. Dilawar were so severe that "even if he had survived, both legs would have had to be amputated," the Army report said, citing a medical examiner.
The reports, from the Army Criminal Investigation Command, also make clear that the abuse at Bagram went far beyond the two killings.
.... Last fall, Army investigators implicated 28 soldiers and reservists and recommended that they face criminal charges, including negligent homicide.
But so far only Private Brand, a military policeman from the 377th Military Police Company, an Army Reserve unit based in Cincinnati, and Sgt. James P. Boland, from the same unit, have been charged.
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Now let's see, does that match with the administration's position? In Aug 2002 our now esteemed attorney General cleared a state dept memo that disregarded the Geneva convention and defended the President's position on detainees. The memo said, "You have asked for our Office's views regarding the standards of conduct under the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman and Degrading Treatment or Punishment." It then states that soldiers acting under the president's authority can inflict "cruel, inhuman or degrading" without violating anti-torture laws. The memo then defined torture only when there is severe pain of "an intensity akin to that which accompanies serious physical injury such as death or organ failure."
Therefore as long as you don't die and your organs are still working, you can beat them all you want. Welcome to George Bush's America! Sounds a lot like the SS.
Of course the current administration has been trying to keep this silent. Oh, they didn't report this on Fox so-called news? There's a shocker. | |
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| girl with a leash has guilty plea thrown out by military judge
Posted: 5/5/2005 2:03:06 AM |
Can you give me the proof on the beaten to death prisoners? I have not heard tis as of yet and I have a hard time believing the media would be trumpting this case if this were true.
Ricitbut, try putting the joystick down for a few hours.
google: Taguba Report, Sy Hersch, New Yorker
I suppose raping detainees is OK with you?
I suppose some dude screaming at you in a foreign tongue telling you to suck the****of the prisoner standing in front of you would be OK with a tough guy like you?
Right?
How about those innocent 'stress positions' Rumsfeld opined about?
This is where you chain a prisoner in such a way to make gravity the agent of torture.
Do you even know what qualifies anyone to become a guest in an American Gulag ?
I'll give you the answer. Next to nothing.
And even when the captors KNOW you are suspected of nothing they are entitled to open up their bag o' torture tricks, because of memoranda that basically says that any Iraqi, Arab or Muslim, just might possibly maybe have some kind of information to be havested.
Go get it boys.
darjeeling | |
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| girl with a leash has guilty plea thrown out by military judge
Posted: 5/5/2005 5:50:45 AM |
Well, that's just not true. About ten years ago a kid was caned in Singapore for doing some vandalism. Were we up in arms with Singapore? No, would we be up in arms if something like this happened to Americans? I don't think we would be.
I remember this quite well, and yes, there were a lot of Americans who were up in arms about it. | |
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| girl with a leash has guilty plea thrown out by military judge
Posted: 5/5/2005 7:21:40 AM | | The Americans would'nt accept the excuse that "I was only following orders" from the Nazis but it's all of a sudden okay when GI Joe or Jane are accused of war crimes. How typical of the Yanks. Great at talking about rights and freedom, but will sell out those very same ideals when they have to back them up with something other than talk. | |
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| girl with a leash has guilty plea thrown out by military judge
Posted: 5/5/2005 7:47:57 AM | | What I found interesting was a story that told while most Americans were horrified to hear about the "Abuses" of prisoners by U.S. G.I.s, Muslims were not in the least surprised. As they have always believed Americans acted that way. It only confirmed in their minds what their leaders had been telling them. | |
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| girl with a leash has guilty plea thrown out by military judge
Posted: 5/5/2005 7:51:56 AM | | Problem is that all it ever is; is talk. No action. It seems as if the politcian hold the american people in contempt; some may even say deservedly. For all the polling and complaining come the end of the day nothing will be done and nobody in power will be held responsible. Afterall Bush was re-elected after it was clear he lied the states to war in Iraq. | |
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| girl with a leash has guilty plea thrown out by military judge
Posted: 5/5/2005 11:03:52 AM | | yeah like I said scared to arm themselves and do the job but not too scared to hang a bunch of kids That are doing it for them for doing it for them. As for the Alleged deaths of detainees if these accusations of beating these prisoners to death are true then these soldiers should be brought up before a court marshall or the Hague whatever trips your little trigger. As for how information is obtained from detainees. Who cares if it saves Americans lives. Remember a few months ago when all you liberals were up in arms because the administration didn't know before hand about sept. 11. Well you got what you wanted now and we're now taking steps to get the information to prevent further attacks and save lifes and your ****ing about that. You want to hang these kids for saving you and yours form further attacks over a few nude photos. Shame on you! Another question? Why is it that we have to follow Geneva accords and those we fight can chop heads off, kill civilians, stone women to death for not wearing her Burka, etc. and this is okay with you? Your sick! We're losing men because people like you are making us fight a war thats Politically correct. I have news for you there is no such thing as a politically correct war, in war people get hurt they die war is ugly and it should be fought so hard and so ugly that the other side says I want no more. Thats whats saves lives but this joke we have going now this is a safe for fabrics keep the world happy war. We could have had Zarqawi and a lot of these attacks would have stopped but no we had to give civilians time to get out of falujah first. How many weeks did that take gee I wonder how he ever got away. Why don't you ask your parents or grandparents about the fire bombing of Dresden and how much warning they gave the civilians to get out of there. Why is it that a self proclaimed perpitraitor of war crimes and attrocities can run for president of the United states and you don't ask for him to appear at the Hague? Oh wait a minute he fit nicely into your liberal ideals so you made an exception for him right? Perhaps we should investigate eveyones grandpa and father and find out what their units behavior was in WWII and see if they should be brought up on charges Canadains, U.S. English, French all the allies. I bet you find some stuff that makes these stupid pictures your all worked up into a tissy over seem pretty tame. | |
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| girl with a leash has guilty plea thrown out by military judge
Posted: 5/5/2005 11:50:13 AM | First of all, these american GIs have already been found guilty of beating POWs to death. 2 of them have already been convicted by military court in secret. 24 other GIs have also been implicated by the Army investigation and have yet to have charges filed against them.
Originally the Army declared that prisoners were in fatigue positions only (hands chained above them tot he ceiling). After the NY Times challenged the Army with it's own investigation, the Army agreed that the prisoners had their hands chained above them and were beaten by US soldiers regularly. This led to the subsequent investigation in which the army implicated 26 GIs in this particular incident. The soldiers indicted claimed beating the prisoners was standard procedure and didn't understand why they were being charged.
The thing that used to separate the US from less scrupulous nations is that we didn't treat humans in this matter no matter what their political or national stripe may be. However, with the President's and Attorney General's consent, we have now joined a team that includes Nazi SS, Stalinist Gulags, Saddam Hussein, etc.
People who study torture will tell you, and have testified to the congress, that information garnered from torture is unreliable. Victims of torture will say whatever you want them to say to make the torture stop.
Lastly, I believe we killed mostly civilians in Fallujah but you wouldn't know that listening to Fox News. | |
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