| Keep Gitmo open!
Posted: 7/7/2007 11:56:30 PM | unfortunately what was done in Iraq was a mistake by Bush but 1 mistake should not beget another!
Congressional Dems announced plans to cut Gitmo funding by 1/2 which made news the very week that Al-qaeda cells were planning a bomb attack in the UK.
Rob Gates was quoted as saying that Bush wants to close Gitmo as a detainee center.....which is idiotic at best and fatally dangerous at worst!....with no better alternates to choose from, Gitmo should be kept open for the following reasons:
1. to keep established combatants locked up so that they don't return to haunt us!
2. to conduct interrogation as stern as necessary!.....this has yielded priceless information and saved countless lives:
a) valuable info was obtained from top al-qaeda man Abu zubayadeh, who gave up names of pivotal agents.
b) Khaled sheik Mohamed's contribution led to the capture of countless butchers; Majid khan, Hambali, gunawan, Yazid suffat, to name a few
Human rights groups squawk about inhumane treatment but the fact show that the detainees are allowed adequate praying time, requested meals, enuff physical exercise......the typical detainee has gained about 10 lb from his on-field weight.........they also get medical care than even Michael Moore praises and that 45 million uncovered americans wish they had!!!!
Not only should Gitmo be kept open...it should be expanded and Bush should be constantly explaining why it must be done instead of cowering to the left wingers!
How long should it be kept open?....right up to the time that the war on terror ends!...and that will be up to none other than OBL & Co!........the geneva convention allows for lawful combatants to be held as long as the conflict lasts!........reports have shown that at least 30 former detainees have gone back to militant activities after they were released!
I can't figure out why Bush wants to close Gitmo after all his tuff talk about fighting terror.....closing it will not yield anything for Bush!......focused on their own self-serving agenda, the leftwingers will still hate him (or find other reasons to hate him), and the islamo-fascists will still wanna conduct terror on the US regardless...in fact, they will probably view the closure as a sign of weakness on our part......based upon the info that was harvested, Gitmo should be kept open at all costs,.... and let the liberals scream until they burn out their vocal chords! | |
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| Keep Gitmo open!
Posted: 7/8/2007 12:34:22 AM | That's a pretty funny OP!! Fairly dripping with sarcasm! I mean, come ON!! You'd have to be barking mad to actually think that way!
Shut it down!! | |
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| Keep Gitmo open!
Posted: 7/8/2007 3:36:31 AM | grog are you out of your mind?
There is one reason and one reason only the idea of shutting Gitmo down is even on the table,. there has been scandal there, point is my misdirected friend up there is right, there is no suitable alrenative to it available at the moment. However sum1real, GET REAL and realise that these detainees are not considered combatants, if they were they would have far more rights than they do. they are considered criminals, not POW's and most of them are awaiting trial for fighting against the US...and action that I would most certainly take if the US were to rollint Canada with guns a blarin. That makes me a patriot, not a criminal
Do NOT shut this thread down, he is not attention seeking, nowere in his thread does he mention his own name, he is expressing an opinion that is not inline with popular belief, but he is not attention seeking. Freedom of speech is a two way street, keep it going! | |
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| Keep Gitmo open!
Posted: 7/8/2007 3:45:25 AM | " ...at least 30 former detainees have gone back to militant activities after they were released!"
And the rest had no reason to be there except that they were brown in the wrong place and time.
Arbitrarily snatching foreigners and putting them in a hole indefinitely is breeding hatred, not capitulation. Also, it does nothing to stop the next Tim McVeigh. | |
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| Keep Gitmo open!
Posted: 7/8/2007 3:52:07 AM |
How long should it be kept open?....right up to the time that the war on terror ends!...and that will be up to none other than OBL & Co!........the geneva convention allows for lawful combatants to be held as long as the conflict lasts!........reports have shown that at least 30 former detainees have gone back to militant activities after they were released!
Right up until the war on terror ends eh? Since terror has been around forever, do you ever think a war on it can ever end?
I like Americans, but I've never understood your need to constantly declare war on abstract concepts... the war on poverty, the war on drugs, the war on terror.  | |
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| Keep Gitmo open!
Posted: 7/8/2007 10:40:06 AM |
1. to keep established combatants locked up so that they don't return to haunt us!
- It is not them haunting. It is Washington killing innocent people overseas, meddling in their affairs, stealing their wealth and oil.
- The whole gang in Washington needs to be put in Gitmo and I will personally contribute for the funding!!!
2. to conduct interrogation as stern as necessary!.....this has yielded priceless information and saved countless lives:
Very priceless information. That priceless information I would assume involves homosexual army men raping prisoners as well!!!
Human rights groups squawk about inhumane treatment but the fact show that the detainees are allowed adequate praying time, requested meals, enuff physical exercise......the typical detainee has gained about 10 lb from his on-field weight.........they also get medical care than even Michael Moore praises and that 45 million uncovered americans wish they had!!!!
This sounds like an attention-seeker thread to me!!!  | |
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| Keep Gitmo open!
Posted: 7/8/2007 11:09:40 AM | | i think we should hand them over to the iraqi govt. let them handle them. or is that stupid too? | |
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| Keep Gitmo open!
Posted: 7/9/2007 12:16:34 PM | i think we should hand them over to the iraqi govt. let them handle them. or is that stupid too?
__________________
Depending on which sect they belong and which sect we hand "THEM" to.
One way they end up dead by the hand of a death squad, the other way they become the death squad.
Remember it is only torture when they die.......... | |
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| Keep Gitmo open!
Posted: 7/9/2007 1:14:33 PM | | Quit raping countries of their natural resources and you will not need a place like Gitmo to begin with. Just a thought. | |
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| Keep Gitmo open!
Posted: 7/9/2007 6:30:21 PM | | I think we should shut Gitmo down and give the land back to Cuba | |
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| Keep Gitmo open!
Posted: 7/9/2007 7:26:51 PM | | I disagree,they should have a trial civilian or military,now I have no sympathy for those found guilty but to keep them there for years?This is not the ideals of america.This is more along the lines of stalin,mao,kim jong ill.And being a moderate republican,I am so glad to see some republicans jumping ship,over iraq.I detest the neo cons. | |
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| Keep Gitmo open!
Posted: 7/9/2007 7:31:19 PM | | Oh and stern interrogation is another name for torture,ask john mccain. | |
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| Keep Gitmo open!
Posted: 7/9/2007 8:59:31 PM | | You guys should do the honourable thing and shut the place down. | |
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| Keep Gitmo open!
Posted: 7/11/2007 12:02:46 AM | My question is why are the CIA and DoD people doing the "interrogations"? They are not trained in it. The FBI, on the other hand, routinely get serial killers to tell them where the bodies are without so much as poking someone in the eye. Why were these trained professionals left out of the loop? Sure, it might take a couple of weeks, but it will be reliable intel.
What will you tell those who were released from Gitmo because it turns out there was no evidence? "Sorry we waterboarded you and smeared you with feces. It's just that... we honestly thought you were lying. No hard feelings?"
Getting rid of Habeas Corpus made decent soldiers into monsters who were persuaded into putting their morals aside by using their patriotism against them. Their actions will haunt them in years to come. I would not be surprised in an increase in suicides from the interrogators in years to come. | |
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| Keep Gitmo open!
Posted: 7/11/2007 1:12:50 AM | | Trailsman, I remember reading a long while back an article on Gitmo where FBI agents who were involved in the interrogations were very critical of the methods picked by those running the joint. I'll see if I can dig it up, its a good read. Anyway they weren't so much left out of the loop, but they did complain that CIA and DOD interrogators were poisoning the well with harsh methods that yielded little in the way of results, but were successfully at hardening the resistance of otherwise cooperative prisoners (and sometimes simply going to far altogether by torturing, or "abusing" those who had no intel to offer). | |
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| Keep Gitmo open!
Posted: 7/26/2007 5:11:25 AM | | just a footnote here...I know when the war on terror will end....July 26 Two Thousand Never | |
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| Keep Gitmo open!
Posted: 7/26/2007 9:42:14 AM | | A human rights Black Eye........... A mismanaged Cluster. | |
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| Keep Gitmo open!
Posted: 7/26/2007 3:45:25 PM | | Close it down, and turn into Casino for the American that wants cuban made cigars. | |
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| Keep Gitmo open!
Posted: 7/26/2007 10:04:40 PM | Gitmo isnt needed.
These prisoners can be held elsewhere, especially after the supreme court decided that they should have basically the same rights as US citizens. spread them out.
I personally don't believe Gitmo is badly run. But our enemies use it effectively as a propaganda tool. We can take that away from them. | |
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| Keep Gitmo open!
Posted: 7/27/2007 8:47:59 AM | ^
the US supreme court should not have gotten involved in making a ruling on this! ....what jurisdiction do they have over the capture of non-american combatants?.........the Geneva convention states that they can be held (albeit humanely) as long as the conflict may last!...it would be crazy to give them the same rights as a civilian law-breaker!....therefore, they just could not be held "elsewhere". | |
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| Keep Gitmo open!
Posted: 7/27/2007 2:59:41 PM | | I agree, but fact of the matter is this is the course we will be taking. Might as well make the best out of a bad situation. Just close the doors and send them elsewhere. | |
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| Keep Gitmo open!
Posted: 7/27/2007 3:29:28 PM |
the geneva convention allows for lawful combatants to be held as long as the conflict lasts!
This is probably the only thing we agree on. However, there's no evidence to show that many (if not most) of the detainees are combatants, they aren't being charged with crimes, or being offered a fair trial. By refusing habeas corpus rights, they're being held illegally.
http://voanews.com/english/2007-07-27-voa35.cfm
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=833122007
http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/61/20413
http://www.guardian.co.uk/guantanamo/0,,1000982,00.html
How many prisoners did he think were the worst of the worst – real terrorists?
"At best, I would say there were a few dozen, A few dozen out of 600." said Sgt. Erik Saar, a soldier who spent three months in the interrogation rooms. "If the rules of the Geneva Convention did not apply, what rules did apply?" asks Pelley.
"I don't think anybody knew that," says Saar.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/04/28/60minutes/main691602.shtml
Detention in Afghanistan and Guantanamo, the 115-page report released last week by three British citizens repatriated earlier this year from Guantanamo Bay, is further proof that torture and other war crimes have been daily occurrences in the American-run concentration camp. It is impossible to read the dossier without recalling the memoirs written by Nazi Holocaust survivors and the nightmare world they endured.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/aug2004/hick-a12.shtml
1. to keep established combatants locked up so that they don't return to haunt us! reports have shown that at least 30 former detainees have gone back to militant activities after they were released!
* the detainees are allowed adequate praying time
* the typical detainee has gained about 10 lb from his on-field weight
Where is your evidence? I can't take you seriously if you don't site your data, because I have no way of verifying it.
How many prisoners are detained (for months or years at a time) and released without ANY evidence, or a crime alleged? Until found guilty, aren't they innocent people are we torturing, beating and removing from their families? How many innocent people are there dieing each month from severe beatings, heat exposure and suicide?
2. to conduct interrogation as stern as necessary!
You know that's illegal right?
Gitmo should be kept open at all costs
I'm cautious of people who speak in absolutes like this. At ALL costs? Really? What if the cost is hundreds, or thousands of innocent people being beaten and tortured? Isn't that socialism? I know how we view OTHER governments that do this - how come we have the blinders on when we're doing it?
"As a professional soldier, and someone who dedicated his life to the service of the United States, in fact, to think that United States would stoop to such tactics as this, I find to be a disgraceful thing." http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/04/28/60minutes/main691602_page3.shtml
On a side note: OP, I noticed you claim to be a Christian. If this was a foreign nation torturing & killing your fellow Christians, how would you feel about it? | |
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| Keep Gitmo open!
Posted: 7/28/2007 1:00:39 PM | ^
there's no evidence to show that many (if not most) of the detainees are combatants, they aren't being charged with crimes, or being offered a fair trial. By refusing habeas corpus rights, they're being held illegally.
.........'absence of evidence' does not prove outright innocence......most of these individuals were captured "on the field"........about 95% are of al-qaeda!
.......read your own source:
voanews.com/english/2007-07-26-voa22.cfm
you are posting links to anti-bush/leftist publications and you expect me to take it seriously!
Where is your evidence? I can't take you seriously if you don't site your data, because I have no way of verifying it.
.....i started this thread a while and unfortunately i don't quite have the links for you but if you search "red cross" in relation to Gitmo detainees, you may find it............btw, am i supposed to accept your source of info as "evidence"???
How many prisoners are detained (for months or years at a time) and released without ANY evidence, or a crime alleged?
........war is hell!........until you come up with a more perfect system then there is little option when it comes to the extraction of intelligence!
Until found guilty, aren't they innocent people are we torturing, beating and removing from their families?
........most of these pple were fighting for the taliban when caught!........they were brandishing AK's and ammo..........they shoulda thought of the possiblity of be captured beforehand!
How many innocent people are there dieing each month from severe beatings, heat exposure and suicide?
......well why don't you tell us, since your source of info is accurate....
You know that's illegal right?
........yeah, so is hi-jacking airlines and crashing them into the WTC and killing several thousand pple!
Really? What if the cost is hundreds, or thousands of innocent people being beaten and tortured?
.........this is just another left-wing rant!...........but let me say this, if the means by which we get info form detainees will ultimately prevent the formation and detonation of a nuclear device in the USA...the effort will have been well worth it.........what you (and other blind liberals) don't understand, is that the extremists are bend on attacking the US regardless of whether we keep Gitmo or not.........if we stop interrogating detainees, we will risk denying ourselves of valuable info otherwise not attainable........detainees will not voluntarily give any info....and they won't be persuaded by talk and promises...these pple will gladly give their lives for their cause (maryrdom)...........some attempt at suicide because: they know that they cannot serve a purpose for their cause anymore, thus they have nothing to live for.......or they realize that the info gathered against them is too strong for be refuted!
On a side note: OP, I noticed you claim to be a Christian.
......its obvious you know little about christianity, so there is little point in you playing the 'christian' card..........i always find it amusing when non-christians try to tell christians how to think or react based on how they (non-believers) think the christians ought to act!
Isn't that socialism?
.....no it isn't!.......maybe you should educate yourself on socialist principles!
If this was a foreign nation torturing & killing your fellow Christians, how would you feel about it?
.............i wouldn't have any problems with it, if these so-called "fellow" pseudo-christians or their sham leader went around declaring holy wars and committing acts of violence against their detainers prior to them getting caught!
.......he who lives by the sword, usually dies by it! | |
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