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| How Many RED flags did you ignore before you got wise?
Posted: 7/10/2007 6:49:46 PM | | Just wondering if anyone was as naive and trusting and stupid as I was...... I should have seen it all coming at the wedding reception. Really! that plus the drunken 75 mile drive to the Honeymoon place, where we ran off the road, into a ditch 9 times that night (and he refused to give me the keys).... or three days later, when every single other couple in the place got up and did the crazy line dance and we were the only two sitting there like warts on a dead frog..... or three months later when he totaled the car drunk driving, and ya think 5 years later, the day my first born came, and we had to call out the state police in three N.E. states to put out an apb on his car cause he was no where to be found would have made me sit up and smell the rotting roses... hmmmm, those all should have been a big clue...but no, love is so damn blind... and we always think our love , a ring and a marriage license (or a kid) would change them. So, 21 years later, 8 years in Alanon later, I finally filed, but only when I got cancer - scared the living **** out of me, and I immediately thought, "HeLLo! If I only have a limited amount of time left, I am not wasting any more of it with him!" So.... when was your first red flag? How long did you ignore it? When did you finally act on it? And if you get a chance at a second time around with love, will you be as kind, patient, forbearing and self sacrificing as you were the first time around because time is running out and you don't want to be alone, will you always be the kind of person who will give the one you love a second, third, fourth chance or will you totally call the whole thing off because no human being with problems is worth the trouble???? | |
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| How Many RED flags did you ignore before you got wise?
Posted: 7/10/2007 7:02:08 PM | My last quasi boyfriend and I had been together for 6 months when his mom, who had Alzheimers, asked him who I was. He told her my name "Well, that's *****!" and she said "***** who?" (Asking my last name)
He turned to me and said "***** who?"
He didn't know my last name. After six months.
I won't tell how many red flags I let flutter in the breeze before I finally dumped that one. I like to think I'm smart, but that is sometimes up for debate. | |
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| How Many RED flags did you ignore before you got wise?
Posted: 7/10/2007 7:09:23 PM | and we always think our love , a ring and a marriage license (or a kid) would change them. I guess that's why the world's full of divorces
Too many people marry somebody, hoping that they'll eventually change into the person they want them to be.
I'd like to think that a perfect relationship is with the person who you don't want to change.
I don't think I'd desire a relationship with someone who I'd want to change.
maybe I'm wrong? But at least I ain't one of the people starting these soap-opera forum threads. | |
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| How Many RED flags did you ignore before you got wise?
Posted: 7/10/2007 7:41:35 PM | I get the feeling nowhere is slightly more apropos..... ooops, or are you the only one allowed to be so judgemental????
People make mistakes, sometimes it's hard to forgive yourself for being so darn stupid, sometimes it's comforting to hear that other's had the same tendancy....and right now I am wondering if I should take another step forward with someone who is now in recovery.... will it all be a replay, sooner or later? I'm inclined to think that one red flag will be my limit this time, that's all...and I'm wondering if that is fair to the other person. Why even get involved if that is my attitude going in. That's all.... just want some feed back, and wondering if women or men in my age bracket take into consideration the aging factor, that this may be the last chance we get.... someone once said to me that any love is better than no love...but I don't think so. Just wanted other's opinions. I'm not going to allow you to make me feel all embarassed, you don't have my consent for that, and I'm not going to apologize for coming here to get some advice or opinions.... that is what I thought the forums were for.
I also don't think I was out to change anyone when I married them...... I was just too young and clueless and head over heels to have an agenda with this person.... I just believed how could it go wrong or ever be wrong if you love someone so very very much..... but love has nothing to do with a person who has an addiction...they love nothing, love no one, not even themselves, and way back then, in the 60's, there was no education on alcoholism as a disease, alcoholics were skid row bums, living in the bowery, under newspapers, I saw them often.... not well educated people from nice normal families... there just wasn't the awareness back then that we have today, and we went to all kinds of counsellors, doctors, psychiatrists who never mentioned alcoholism as a reason for the problems in our marriage...go figure, all these professionals, only 9 years later did someone finally mention it....alcoholism doesn't come in bottles, it comes in people, all kinds of people, who suffer terribly.... but I know in my heart I will not suffer along with someone again, not ever again.... so should I even think of dating this person? I don't know. Yeah, so? My life is a soap opera.... tough. I need some advice here? tough. I look like a fool? tough. Like I said, no one has my consent to make me feel foolish, I don't feel foolish, I feel human and confused. | |
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| How Many RED flags did you ignore before you got wise?
Posted: 7/10/2007 7:52:42 PM | Poeticprincess, if you are new to the forums, I'll give you a word of warning: One needs a mighty thick skin to survive the cruelty one can encounter here. My advice is that ignoring it is the best approach.
You have suffered the trauma of living with an alcoholic. Surely you are aware of the recidivism rate of people in recovery.
If I were in your situation, I would not be willing to take a risk on someone who has ever had a problem with drugs or alcohol. I would simply be too afraid of landing back in the same old situation as I was in before.
Here's an example of my own: I am allergic to cigarette smoke. Being around it gives me migraines. Yet I entered a relationship with my current partner, knowing he smoked, because he described himself as an occasional smoker, and he was trying to quit.
Well, 9 months later, he's still trying. He has the best of intentions, but quitting an addiction is very difficult to achieve and sustain.
My advice? This fellow in recovery may be a poor bet for you. Have you asked yourself why you are drawn to men with addictions?
Best of luck to you. | |
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| How Many RED flags did you ignore before you got wise?
Posted: 7/10/2007 7:55:04 PM | | Well, personally I don't think you should get involved with this new man who is in "recovery"....MAYBE involve yourself with him once he has proven he has RECOVERED instead. I'm all for giving people the benefit of the doubt, but given your history this doesn't really sound like something you need right now. People make 'mistakes' to learn from them, not to repeat them. I'm not meaning to sound harsh, but just tellin it like I see it. Best of luck! | |
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| How Many RED flags did you ignore before you got wise?
Posted: 7/10/2007 7:55:59 PM | Sometimes red flags aren't as obvious but if you think about it ARE red flags....
For instance.... if you meet a man at a bar and he asks if you want a drink and you tell him no thank you ... does he respect you for not wanting to drink or does he insist on getting you a drink and buys you one anways??? That might not be a red flag because you can justify or try to justify it by saying, she really didn't mean no, she was just being polite etc etc... but later down the road, is he going to justify your no again???
Also ....
In the beginning of the relationship, he is so into you and wants to see you all the time, he wants you to go everywhere with him and always have you by his side. Maybe you think it's so sweet and you just can't believe how into you this guy is and it's so wonderful.... but that is a great red flag of a controlling person... just in the beginning of a relationship it's seen as so romantic and sweet.
Just some signs that red flags in the beginning of a relationship are overlooked and when you look back they can be so obvious. It's easy to brush things off in the beginning.
Red flags aren't always big warning signs like abusive pasts etc etc. Red flags can be very very subtle. | |
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| How Many RED flags did you ignore before you got wise?
Posted: 7/10/2007 8:11:03 PM | POetic-it sounds to me as if you amy have some co-dependent tendencies, and really, is that a good match for you OR your new guy? If he is in recovery, adn you are (in a sense) in recovery for being complementary to his issues, then SURE you will feel comfortable with him-and vice-versa. You should both even know the same AA-type of language. I wouldnt think that this is a good pairing, but stranger things ahve (and always will!)happen.
I remember my first red flag with my Ex.......it involved many smashed and broken glass bottles I used to collect, every ashtray in the house, a flower vase and a few other objects. There were a few others,(impotence, sleepless nights and a sparkling clean houe coupled with 5 page love letters, weight loss, etc) I just didn't notice them for what they were-signs of drug use. It took me exactly one child, one marriage, one year of living together with no fights, one unexpected pregnancy, several hundred tearful apologies (from me!), lots of the "SCREW YOU!!! NO-screw YOU!!!" type of oral sex, a bankruptcy, and about 5-6 years to get my head out of my rear. It took him a trip to prison, serious emotional trauma to his son, his only daughters entire babyhood, his entire family, and about 8 years plus parole to get himself straightened out. Sober, he is a pretty nice guy-which is good, as that makes it easier not to kill him.
Good lock, hun, but take it slow with the new love, ok? | |
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| How Many RED flags did you ignore before you got wise?
Posted: 7/10/2007 8:28:05 PM | I agree with stoney1.
When you're in love, there can be more red flags than you would find at a gathering of commies and you still can have the tunnel vision to ignore what's wrong.
But when you're not in love, it is easy to dismiss someone and for the smallest of reasons. | |
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| How Many RED flags did you ignore before you got wise?
Posted: 7/10/2007 8:28:06 PM | LynSteph (and GardenNut and Irreverent Lass)
I think you are right, this isn't right for me...I didn't know about his "recovery" until 15 phone calls into this...we were finally going to meet this Saturday night, and he had to change the time frame because he had to go to a "meeting" his sponsor was speaking at. After 8 years in Alanon, that was a huge clue....I asked him outright what recovery program was he in, GA, AA, NA, OA...what? He tried to make light of it, and he tried to assure me that his recovery was number one in his life for the past two years, but he also admitted to getting involved with someone in a halfway house....so no, I don't want to appear terribly judgemental with him, but right now, for me, this isn't the "wise" thing to do.... it's just when I told my girlfriend tonite, she said someone my age shouldn't be so picky.... maybe not, but I guess I feel like I am being very very judgemental and shallow. I already gave someone the benefit of the doubt and look where that led me??? And I do have a very ragged-eared copy of Co-Dependent No More by Beattie on my shelf, and I know when I am slipping in my own recovery..... I've been out of the marriage for over 14 years, and I'm still recovering from the effects alcoholism, and probably will the rest of my life...the key is to just take everything one day at a time and keep the focus on myself this time around. | |
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| How Many RED flags did you ignore before you got wise?
Posted: 7/10/2007 8:49:45 PM | {Well, personally I don't think you should get involved with this new man who is in "recovery"....MAYBE involve yourself with him once he has proven he has RECOVERED instead.}
Just an FYI. There is no such thing as "recovered" This is something that is with you for life. If you are fortunate you remain in "recovery" for life. | |
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| How Many RED flags did you ignore before you got wise?
Posted: 7/10/2007 8:59:21 PM | | I totally agree.... I know I will have to be vigilant for the co-dependancy issues...and should take myself to a Al-Anon meeting toute suite...been awhile.... I gave it up when I got far enough away from the man and the issues.... maybe I should go to a few meetings...like I said, I will be in recovery for life... I still have my ODAT too!!! | |
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| How Many RED flags did you ignore before you got wise?
Posted: 7/10/2007 9:07:56 PM | Last relationship I was in I got my 1st red flag before we even dated. Just things she talked about.
Over the next 2yrs of our relationship red flags were popping up all over the place and I just kept ignoring them trying to make myself believe her and ended up paying for ignoring them big time. | |
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| How Many RED flags did you ignore before you got wise?
Posted: 7/10/2007 10:53:08 PM | So many 'picture perfect' people here on this thread. Someone asks a question, gives an example and get's attacked! Nice one.
In my situation, I saw one major red flag, and I was outa the relationship. Sure I had the 'I would never cheat on you' crap which I didn't believe anyway, but the day I had solid proof (straight from the horses mouth.....my ex friend admitted sleeping with him) and I confronted the guy who moved in with me 8 years prior, he became physical. The police dragged him away, and from that day forth he was out of my life permanently.
I guess we love a person so much, that we become ignorant towards their faults, and hope deep down that they will change. Sometimes it takes someone looking from the outside IN to make us see the confronting issues we choose to live with. | |
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| How Many RED flags did you ignore before you got wise?
Posted: 7/11/2007 12:13:04 AM | I think whats being missed here is the OP is just finally having an 'AHA' moment!
Asking how many other people ignored signs.. helps her know she's not alone. And no, she's not. Patterns in abused persons are habitual, ... so keep those eyes wide open! | |
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| How Many RED flags did you ignore before you got wise?
Posted: 7/11/2007 1:13:49 AM | poeticprincess66
So many questions you have my dear.
So.... when was your first red flag? How long did you ignore it? When did you finally act on it?
My first red flag was when he threw a very expensive power tool as far as he could. I ignored his physical outbursts for years. I never acted on it, he left me because, 'I was boring'.
And if you get a chance at a second time around with love, will you be as kind, patient, forbearing and self sacrificing as you were the first time around because time is running out and you don't want to be alone,
I will be kind, patient and loving, not forbearing or self sacrificing, in my new love life.
Time is not running out, for as long as I live I will have new opportunities to find my lover for life. I am not alone, I always have me.
will you always be the kind of person who will give the one you love a second, third, fourth chance or will you totally call the whole thing off because no human being with problems is worth the trouble????
I will tell my love the things I will not tolerate- in detail- and that there will not be a second chance on issues I have already dealt with. It is not my job to save my new love from himself, it is my job to work on me. Every human being has problems, and every human being must work them out for themselves.
I've been out of the marriage for over 14 years, and I'm still recovering from the effects alcoholism, and probably will the rest of my life...the key is to just take everything one day at a time and keep the focus on myself this time around.
Focus on you. Yes, you said it. Can you truly live with wondering if today, tomorrow, next week...will be the day he quits his quit? If you can, then go for it, but I'm betting 14 years of ignoring red flags will have you seeing them for the next 14 years. You won't be rejecting him. You are just refusing to go back to a lifestyle you know you cannot live again.
I read your profile, you are not too old for love, nor should you feel in anyway desperate. Let that man take care of him and you take care of you. If he truly believes he's worth your love, he will show you in all ways that you can trust him. However; if he makes his life an excuse, then let him loose.
Good luck, God bless and happy 
DD | |
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| How Many RED flags did you ignore before you got wise?
Posted: 7/11/2007 1:39:42 AM | When you love someone you NEVER see the red flags. It took years for me to finally open my eyes enough, and now I look for them actively BEFORE I start to get really involved.
There are questions you can ask when you first met someone in order to gauge their emotional state. One that I find helpful is asking about his family dynamics. I've decided that I want someone well adjusted, and I will never try to make up for any mans' unhappy childhood again. I'm emotionally healthy, and I want someone who is the same way. | |
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| How Many RED flags did you ignore before you got wise?
Posted: 7/11/2007 2:33:58 AM | I want to just offer a bit on the new man that people are suggesting you steer away from quickly. I honor his recovery in the programs he is in. For me, being in many 12 step programs for decades I find that to be in more than one is really a gift. The man is in touch with his addictions and getting the help. He has a sponsor, which is great. Although two years of substance abuse recovery is not a lot, it's still 24 months of it and that is past a lot of the 'might not make it' points of recovery. From your feelings expressed I agree that you maybe should return to Alanon (and find a CoDA meeting too!) toute suite. I don't think you should 'diss' this man quite yet. There is a lifestyle (if you become active again... take that ODAT book and GO) that you share.
My own hope is to meet someone in recovery. I've been sober for more than 20 years and also in Alanon, DA, SLA and OA. The programs have saved my life. They didn't all happen at once, it was more of the onion-peeling. It's a language and lifestyle that I want to share with a partner who is also doing the same thing. A drinker, even a 'social' one wouldn't understand so much of my world as it is today.
I think this man warrants a coffee 'meet and greet' before any decision is made. He's not your ex (and after 14 years you might want to stop referencing him in each paragraph like he's a living legend-moving on is cathartic). Also, in my opinion, lumping all alchoholics, recovering or not, into the same heap is painting with too broad a brush.
I've met some men with 25 years sobriety who act like 12 year olds that don't drink, and I've met some men with 18 months sobriety who have the kindness and wisdom of an old soul.
So, this is unsolicited, but here goes...grab your book, get thee to a meeting, find a woman who you want what she has, ask her to be your sponsor, and use her! Meet the man during the day in a safe, well-lit area with a set amount of time to spend with him. Assess after that. You don't have to marry him, you want to meet a fellow soul in recovery to share a talk, a walk a laugh with. Simple enough... Enjoy and leave the ex out of the conversation.
CP | |
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| How Many RED flags did you ignore before you got wise?
Posted: 7/11/2007 7:53:04 AM | The very first red flag? I should have run screaming when he wouldn't let me call the doctor. We'd been together about two weeks, and we went to a party one night at his friends' house. He hung out with the guys, mostly, and I spent most of the time with the friend's wife and the kids (never been much of a party person). We got home (he'd moved in, a friend of the roommate, before we started dating) and he started throwing up. Then he had a seizure. Apparently he'd been drinking (underage, we were 20 at the time) and popped a couple pills (that I didn' t know about until after the seizure and he told me) and hadn't taken his insulin (diabetic on two types of injections). And he wouldn't let me call for help because he didn't want to go to jail (funny... that's exactly where he is right now.... after abusing me and my son).
That relationship had several more red flags that I ignored because I was pregnant and didn't want to break up the family. It took a long, hard, painful road to get out of it. SO, no, if I get a second chance with love, I'm going to carefully screen the guy before I agree to be with him. I not only have myself to look out for, but my son, and I WILL NOT subject him to another person even CLOSE to that guy. | |
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D+Rule
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Joined: 6/24/2007
Msg: 22 | |
| How Many RED flags did you ignore before you got wise?
Posted: 7/11/2007 10:27:36 AM | Okay well this isn’t exactly what I would think of when I’m thinking of red flags.
To me this is a red flag
In the beginning of the relationship, he is so into you and wants to see you all the time, he wants you to go everywhere with him and always have you by his side. Maybe you think it's so sweet and you just can't believe how into you this guy is and it's so wonderful.... but that is a great red flag of a controlling person...
And so was this;
plus the drunken 75 mile drive to the Honeymoon place, where we ran off the road, into a ditch 9 times that night
I make mental notes of red flags and wait and see if my intuition is right or not. I don’t turn tail and run right away.
To me this was just bad judgment. All the signs of an alcoholic were right there in front of you, I don’t care how long ago it was, you said yourself you knew what drunks were, they were homeless and asleep under newspapers. However in order to be there on the park bench, they had to start from somewhere and follow the path to rock bottom. You witnessed that path yourself. You even knew that alcoholics came from normal families like you said. So the signs were there, and yes you could have heeded them without needing any education about alcoholism.
Unfortunately you made the same mistake that everyone everywhere will make at least once in their life. You feel in love with the man in your head, not the man standing beside you at the altar. Like you said, love can be blind, but love can also be a pair of beer-goggles allowing you to see what you want to see and not what’s actually sitting there right in front you.
I don’t think you were planning on changing him before you got married, I think the idea to change him came along later. The reason that you wanted to change him later on was because you were finally starting to see the real man and not the man in your head anymore and you were starting to realize that you didn’t fall in love with this guy, it was the fantasy you fell in love with. So you wanted to change the real man into the man you had in your head, unfortunately it’s impossible to really change someone for forever, they have to do that for themselves.
I would have to say I can’t believe your thinking of getting involved with someone who is in recovery. After all the bs you’ve been through you’re actually going to put yourself right back in the same situation. My advice; wait until he’s proven that he is recovered. It will take years for it to happen and don’t worry about running out of time. Everybody seems to be worried about running out of time these days. I have all the time in the world regardless if I live to 80 or die tomorrow, I won’t rush through life for any reason. If you rush you can compromise your own values, principles and morals. Become happy and complete with yourself. If you can do that, you won’t feel that desperation to be with someone, you’ll be able to sit back and see things for what they really are, good or bad.
46&2 | |
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| How Many RED flags did you ignore before you got wise?
Posted: 7/11/2007 10:37:12 AM | First red flag:
Your brain says "huh"? as a response to something they do or say.
How long did I put up with it when I was young and dumb? 15 years and 2 kids and finally cancer.
How long do I put up with it now?
*click* You no longer exist.
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| How Many RED flags did you ignore before you got wise?
Posted: 7/11/2007 10:40:59 AM | | When I am in love and thinking with the wrong brain things can get pretty heavy before I get the hint. It seems even when you start to get a clue and know its going nowhere you turn it into a game and try anyway instead of just rolling the dice and moving on. I am getting better but a lot of this is probably human nature. We pick our mate and its what we want and we don't give up until we get it. Some take it farther then others. | |
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| How Many RED flags did you ignore before you got wise?
Posted: 7/11/2007 11:00:20 AM | | In my case, they were there from the beginning. But I was so bowled over by the fact that. unlike my ex-wife she actually enjoyed sex and was honest about (something I hadn't encountered much in my sheltered life at the time), that I overlooked a lot of things. Turned out that, in too many ways other than sex, she was exactly like my ex. Aw well, live and learn. | |
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