| Guilty before proven guilty Posted: 7/18/2007 5:36:55 PM |
Saudis prepare to behead teenage maid
By Tim Butcher, Middle East Correspondent Last Updated: 2:58am BST 17/07/2007
The imminent execution of a teenage maid in Saudi Arabia drew fierce criticism yesterday and provoked condemnation of the kingdom's prolific use of capital punishment.
The case has brought fresh attention to the draconian Saudi criminal justice system which is expected this year to set a new record in its use of the death sentence.Human rights campaigners yesterday urged the authorities not to behead a 19-year-old Sri Lankan maid found guilty of killing a baby in her care.
According to the Saudi authorities, Rizana Nafeek admitted strangling the four-month-old boy while feeding him with a bottle.
But Nafeek, whose job was not meant to include child care, has denied making any such admission. She claims the child had begun to choke before losing consciousness in spite of her desperate efforts to clear his airway.
Tonight is the deadline for appeals in the case. Unless the Saudi authorities change the sentence or the parents of the victim offer clemency, Nafeek will have her head cut off by an executioner wielding a sword in front of a crowd of onlookers.
In 2005 there were 191 executions but that record could be surpassed this year as 102 have already taken place just over half way through the year. Last year the total dipped to 38 but this year's figure already includes three women, according to Amnesty International.
Nafeek, who had been denied a lawyer at her trial, is one of 5.6 million foreign workers who live in Saudi Arabia. The vast majority are domestic workers such as Nafeek, employed to look after the homes of oil-rich families. advertisement
According to the Sri Lankan government, Nafeek had only been in the country a few weeks when the incident happened in May 2005. A government delegation tried to fly to Saudi Arabia to organise her appeal but it was delayed because of visa problems.
Beheading has always been the punishment for murderers, rapists, drug traffickers and armed robbers in Saudi Arabia, which follows a strict interpretation of Islamic law.
In February, four Sri Lankan workers were executed for armed robbery and their headless bodies left on public display in Riyadh, triggering harsh criticism from international rights groups.
Amnesty International says some defendants are convicted solely on the basis of confessions obtained under duress, torture or deception.
Kate Allen, the director of Amnesty International UK, said: "It is an absolute scandal that Saudi Arabia is preparing to behead a teenage girl who didn't even have a lawyer at her trial. The Saudi authorities are flouting an international prohibition on the execution of child offenders by even imposing a death sentence on a defendant who was reportedly 17 at the time of the alleged crime."
There are so many foreign workers in Saudi Arabia that they account for a large proportion of crimes committed.
"The workers commit big crimes against Saudis," said Suhaila Hammad of Saudi Arabia's National Society for Human Rights.
She said the number of executions had risen because crime had increased. She said that prisoners were treated humanely and that beheadings deterred crime.
"Allah, our creator, knows best what's good for his people," she said.
"Should we just think of and preserve the rights of the murderer and not think of the rights of others?"
this seems a little excessive, though i wonder if the girl really killed the child? | |
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| Guilty before proven guilty Posted: 7/18/2007 6:49:02 PM | I totally oppose the death penalty for many reasons. All I can say is people know how draconian Saudi punishment can be, so the question that comes to my mind is why would anyone want to go there? In north america a person accused of a crime has the right to be represented by counsel and if they can't afford one the state will supply one. Now the problem is that the state pays the lawyer and we all know that lawyers represents the one paying him/her. I wonder how many people on death row were represented by public defenders? Maybe saudi courts and north american courts aren't really that much different. Got to wonder. | |
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| Guilty before proven guilty Posted: 7/18/2007 9:47:18 PM | I have read and seen on news programs, where foreign workers going to Saudi have their passports taken from them and then are treated with less respect than slaves and are forced to stay.
This article is deplorable in the manner in which this young ladies defence was handled. Accidents happen and babies can choke........this is a sad moment. | |
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| Guilty before proven guilty Posted: 7/18/2007 10:05:02 PM | | Personally, Im not going to jump to bash the Saudi Goverment on this one. Maybe the investigation was thorough. For many of you believing all non-western nations are "backwards" is really very sad. We have people in the United states who are trained to distinguish cause of death. Do you not think that Saudi Arabia has these specialists as well? Id caution anyone jumping to conclusions so quickly. | |
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| Guilty before proven guilty Posted: 7/18/2007 10:36:12 PM |
Nafeek, who had been denied a lawyer at her trial, is one of 5.6 million foreign workers who live in Saudi Arabia. The vast majority are domestic workers such as Nafeek, employed to look after the homes of oil-rich families.
Of course... why would she need a lawyer..... shes not one of the elite..... she's just a slave.
Beheading has always been the punishment for murderers, rapists, drug traffickers and armed robbers in Saudi Arabia, which follows a strict interpretation of Islamic law.
"Allah, our creator, knows best what's good for his people," she said.
"Should we just think of and preserve the rights of the murderer and not think of the rights of others?"
This is why in the US we have a seperation of church and state.... we can not be tried by the laws of ones religion..... backwards 3rd world country.... but we already knew that! Heh the last comment sounds vaugly familiar to some of those in the "Murphree TX exonerated every guy caught by CATCH A PREDATOR" thread below. | |
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| Guilty before proven guilty Posted: 7/19/2007 12:55:50 AM | BadMouth...""Murphree TX exonerated every guy caught by CATCH A PREDATOR" thread below"
I really don't think this can be compared to some slug, who runs around with his zipper down, looking to molest 12 to 14 year old girls....and anyone who thinks it can....or exonerates any male who has that on his mind......must think like the predators do. shame on you.... | |
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| Guilty before proven guilty Posted: 7/19/2007 3:11:27 AM |
Do you not think that Saudi Arabia has these specialists as well? Id caution anyone jumping to conclusions so quickly.
Agreed. It's offensive that Arab/Muslim countries are considered backward and illiterate, merely because we often do not agree with them.
Perhaps it's because I live in Ohio, but I'm not really seeing the point of this thread; she killed a baby, she got the death penalty. What, exactly, was the question? | |
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| Guilty before proven guilty Posted: 7/19/2007 5:15:25 AM |
Agreed. It's offensive that Arab/Muslim countries are considered backward and illiterate, merely because we often do not agree with them.
there is a difference between chopping off someones head and a needle.
Perhaps it's because I live in Ohio, but I'm not really seeing the point of this thread; she killed a baby, she got the death penalty. What, exactly, was the question?
not only she was denied a fair trial she was also denied a lawyer. see the part about the sri lankan officials being denied into the country to help her. second of all she wasnt even qualified to watch the kid, yet the parents put her in watching their little bratt. Because she wasn't a citizen, they probably didn't even do an autopsy to determine death. if there were hand prints on the kid, and the hand prints were on her, it would be strangulation. because she is a foreigner they probly didnt even care.
and you should care. the point is that these "allies" are giving money to terrorists or being terrorists. then they wonder why we support countries like Israel? if this happened in America, at least she could get a fair trial...innocent before proven guilty. A true measure of a country is how well they treat their prisoners. | |
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| Guilty before proven guilty Posted: 7/19/2007 5:26:11 AM |
Agreed. It's offensive that Arab/Muslim countries are considered backward and illiterate, merely because we often do not agree with them.
Perhaps it's because I live in Ohio, but I'm not really seeing the point of this thread; she killed a baby, she got the death penalty. What, exactly, was the question?
how would your feelings be if an American citizen was denied a lawyer at trial, access to the American embassy, was found guilty, and due to be executed.
Agreed. It's offensive that Arab/Muslim countries are considered backward and illiterate, merely because we often do not agree with them.
Not all of them, but some certainly are. Saudi Arabia is a pretty hellish place unless you're part of the elite. | |
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| Guilty before proven guilty Posted: 7/19/2007 7:13:13 AM | | I for one see a country that beheads people and leaves their bodies out for public display is alittle backwards sorry. I mean this kind of thing was common back in the middle ages but come on. I think that this girl probably did not kill the baby, although how would we know that is why we have a fair trial. Regardless she will be made a scapegoat and somehow maybe her death will appease the Saudi family. Hey who are we to argue its the will of Allah right????????? | |
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| Guilty before proven guilty Posted: 7/19/2007 8:42:56 AM | Guilty before proven guilty
- Doesn't the same concept apply all over Western world as well as Europe? For instance, those doctors were caught and shown all over the media as the "Islamic terrorist" and all the newspapers put the word "guilty" all over them and then some were released now?
but....
- Anything we do is pretty "fair" and "Nice", such as the trial of Saddam Hussain.
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| Guilty before proven guilty Posted: 7/19/2007 8:52:31 AM | I wonder if such sentances would deter some of the gang violence in the cities here? Imagine...knowing that your headless corpse was gonna be on display for all to see. Hmmm....even public caning has its deterrent factor. The public humiliation of being punished in front of everyone is often enought to make a potential criminal think twice before committing a crime.
Anyways....I didn't like the way the case was handled with this woman, but the punishmnet is their own way of handling things. We don't have the right to look down on them nor critisize. If you don't like their laws and crininal justice system, just avoid going there. Don't have any more dealing with them than necessary and refuse to stay for "hospitality" reasons. | |
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| Guilty before proven guilty Posted: 7/19/2007 8:54:55 AM |
- Doesn't the same concept apply all over Western world as well as Europe? For instance, those doctors were caught and shown all over the media as the "Islamic terrorist" and all the newspapers put the word "guilty" all over them and then some were released now?
I some what agree here with what passionateman said, but also you have to ask "what part does the media play in this guilt before proof?" Nothing quite like a hound chase after the criminals...and often it is the media barking like hounds thinking they have a fox, but in reality they have a opossum. | |
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| Guilty before proven guilty..happens in The West, too Posted: 7/19/2007 9:02:02 AM | - Anything we do is pretty "fair" and "Nice", such as the trial of Saddam Hussain.
now Saddam is a hero to you? I'm sure he defended Islam well by murdering so many believers..
these miscarriages of justice happen in the Western world too, there was a forensic pathologist in Ontario (smith) who apparently was some type of religious freak who thought it was his "mission" to punish child abusers, therefore he came back with findings of "looks like abuse" in cases of accidental child death, very biased in the lab..several people were convicted & imprisoned based on his faulty "findings", some for up to 12 years or more until the truth came out..
imagine a mother accused of killing her own child, which she did not do, & imprisoned.
or uncle accused of murdering his own niece, etc.
http://www.injusticebusters.com/05/Smith_Charles.shtml
http://netk.net.au/SmithHome.asp | |
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| Guilty before proven guilty..happens in The West, too Posted: 7/19/2007 9:21:51 AM |
these miscarriages of justice happen in the Western world too, there was a forensic pathologist in Ontario (smith) who apparently was some type of religious freak who thought it was his "mission" to punish child abusers, therefore he came back with findings of "looks like abuse" in cases of accidental child death, very biased in the lab..several people were convicted & imprisoned based on his faulty "findings", some for up to 12 years or more until the truth came out..
I'm sure glad we don't have barbaric capital punishment in this country. | |
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| Guilty before proven guilty..happens in The West, too Posted: 7/19/2007 9:37:32 AM | Sugar
now Saddam is a hero to you? I'm sure he defended Islam well by murdering so many believers..
- Sometimes I wonder at what age people get out of kindergarten mentalities - What represents Islam? The Koran - Does Islam have a leader? No - Who is Saddam Hussain? A guy who has an Islamic name - Does he follow Islam? You have no clue. - Do you know what religion he was following? You don't know. - How do you link him to Islam if you don't even know his inner soul and spiritual world? - Do you have psychic ability? No. You don't. If you did, you wouldn't be on this forum ranting, instead you would be a big shot in Hollywood.
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| Guilty before proven guilty..happens in The West, too Posted: 7/19/2007 9:43:07 AM |
is such a convincing logical 'argument'. thanks.
afraid to even show your face on your pic? might be in the terr. database?
- Answer questions instead of beating around the bush!!! - You wanna see my face? Why? You into guys!!! Got some kind of fetish with hot guys?  | |
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| Guilty before proven guilty..happens in The West, too Posted: 7/19/2007 9:57:20 AM | If a country wants to deter killing, they need to stop killing altogether - this includes the death penalty.
It's like a parent smoking a cigarette while giving a lecture to their child how bad smoking is. The Death Penalty does not deter crime or murder to any degree. It's for revenge on behalf of the victim's families. | |
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| Guilty before proven guilty..happens in The West, too Posted: 7/19/2007 12:54:52 PM | For many of you believing all non-western nations are "backwards" is really very sad.
I'm sorry but for any country that hangs 16 year old girls for getting raped or stones a women for cheating on her husband is backwards. That to me is sad.
Agreed. It's offensive that Arab/Muslim countries are considered backward and illiterate, merely because we often do not agree with them.
awww, call the whaambulance, geesh. It's offensive that these barbaric practices still occur, it's offensive that children are "punished" for being victims of rape, it's offensive that we have apologists running around condoning such BS and crying when someone calls you on it. | |
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| Guilty before proven guilty Posted: 7/19/2007 1:36:04 PM |
She said the number of executions had risen because crime had increased. She said that prisoners were treated humanely and that beheadings deterred crime.
"Allah, our creator, knows best what's good for his people," she said.
Saudis quote Moses as their Father, If you look further into it in Hebrew and see what he states, by there own standards there should be two witness's to the murder, if not it is unlawful. | |
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| Guilty before proven guilty Posted: 7/19/2007 2:09:31 PM | | its always guity before innocence but i disagree about the death peneltyit should not be banned five prisoners have been released in this country G Britain and they have killed again one of which has killed 3 times all but one was women over 18 the other a child i say this murders should stand trial three times for one murder found guilty twice they should hang but found not guilty twice but manslaughter they should be put in prison for life and i mean life not released ever including the failed bombers in glasgow and london hang them all sorry but thats my view but in the case of sudia arabia they killed on of their own princeess`s why for she fell in love with commoner and her maid fell for the commoners sister that was back in 1970`s so dont say there alaw for one and not another or am i saying that the princess should of died either but you must know they are dangers taking jobs out their they dont drink inthose countries and i also beleave their should be a state for palastine but they have to reconise isreal two i am jewish by the way | |
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| Guilty before proven guilty Posted: 7/19/2007 2:12:09 PM | Sorry I didn’t mean to put Moses I meant Abraham, their mother is Haggi. Standards are still the same. message 22 Saudis quote Abraham as their Father, If you look further into it in Hebrew and see what he states, by there own standards there should be two witness's to the murder, if not it is unlawful.
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| Guilty before proven guilty..happens in The West, too Posted: 7/19/2007 3:05:31 PM | | Using the term "backwards" sounds very haughty and also generally refers to cultural inferiority. I'd say that there is a great injustice in many parts of the world, but to leap out and tag nations as backwards is another story | |
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