| Dates as learning opportunities
Posted: 7/23/2007 1:12:53 PM | Most of us have had the experience of adversity showing us someone's true character, whether our own or another's. I've been thinking for a while that the more ordinary dates--dinner, a movie, the clichéd walk on the beach, a sporting event--only reveal a certain amount about people. If you get past the second or third date and want to explore whether a relationship is possible with this person, what are some ideas for dates that teach you about that guy or girl's character? Not necessarily things that throw you two into a crisis, but situations that are closer to everyday real life than dinner at a nice restaurant. But still fun, of course...
I've thought of a few--bumper cars ought to show you how he or she deals with frustration; shopping together for the ingredients for a meal and preparing it side by side will teach you how well you work together. I'm sure the smart folks on the POF forums can help me come up with others.
--Ms. Flis | |
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| Dates as learning opportunities
Posted: 7/23/2007 2:44:05 PM | | I think you have some good ideas. I know one that I really enjoyed and miss is that we used to go to breakfast together on Sunday mornings. After breakfast, we would go do our running around for groceries, things we needed to get done, go to the car wash, whatever. Stuff that everybody needs to do anyway and it makes it a lot less boring when you have somebody to do it with and you find out what kind of things they like, what they eat, where they like to shop. Lots of things. | |
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| Dates as learning opportunities
Posted: 7/23/2007 2:55:17 PM | I find it very telling to find out what kind of relationship they had prior to meeting me. Who left whom, why, what responsibility if they own up to the failure of any LTR. How they answer it. For me it's the depth of conversation, the nitty gritty traits that can be seen from talking, asking, answering - and that can happen over coffee.
Well placed questions for me ~ Then I'll decide if I'm going to even get to the point of wanting to cook dinner side by side with someone, much less a second date.
I have been amazed at how those I've seen admit to the failure being almost totally due to the other person. One man shared his thoughts on what he did wrong that probably contributed to the end of his marriage - I found that so incredibly refreshing. | |
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| Dates as learning opportunities
Posted: 7/23/2007 2:56:31 PM | I think bumper cars wouldn't be a great revealer -- it would show if they're zealously competitive or not. I think a trip to a local amusement park to "win" you something would be good, though. You could tell if he's the kind of guy who feels that he has to win you over, or if he's more laid back when it comes to that stuff -- which may or may not be a characteristic you care about.
Shopping & cooking will do it, I have to agree with you. Any everyday-type activities will help show how someone is. However, in the early stages or "pre-dating" many people will inherently act a little differently (more cordially if they wouldn't be). Regardless, it definitely breaks the ice when it comes to knowing someone, that's for sure.
I think conversation about topics each feel passionately about is one way of doing it. Which is why on a first date you're not supposed to talk about politics, sex, or religion. I think after the first couple dates, if you really want to get to know the person, you try to talk about subjects that are impressive to one or the other, and you see how they deal with disagreement on things -- which I'm sure you'll find. In the pre-dating phase, you know that it won't get totally out of hand, but when a disagreement about a subject comes along, you can see how they handle it! I think that can tell a lot about the person, on whether they're a good communicator and an understanding person, etc., or if they're b!tchy (some people call this 'stubborn' haha), or if they're mindless. Very key characteristic that is a deal breaker or maker! | |
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| Dates as learning opportunities
Posted: 7/23/2007 3:03:05 PM | | OP, you will learn more about your date if you rent a canoe for the afternoon and go for a paddle. Another suggestion, people watch and share commentary on the people you're both watching. These two activities should give you a better insight into your date. | |
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| Dates as learning opportunities
Posted: 7/23/2007 3:08:12 PM | | Go on a trip together---believe me, there is no better way to get to know someone in a short period of time like spending 24/7 together and having to make daily decisions about where to go what to do etc, how you handle different opinions, the inevitable conflicts that come up etc. etc. It will either make or break you | |
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| Dates as learning opportunities
Posted: 7/23/2007 3:16:36 PM | First off, I am envious that you are in Southern California........
Secondly, would you mind stopping by Roberto's and getting me a beef chimichanga? Holy crap those things are sooooo good..........
Anyway, how about a trip up the Sunset Strip? Or the Getty Museum?
When I lived there my friends and I would also go to the flea markets. If anything, we bought produce and cooked out. What about the Gaslight District and the Whaley house? It's supposed to be haunted.
I miss San Diego. Always something to go do, to see.........even the zoo was spectacular! | |
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| Dates as learning opportunities
Posted: 7/23/2007 3:43:43 PM | I agree that conversation can tell you a lot, especially when you start venturing into the not-so-"safe" subjects, but I'm assuming you've already passed those first few discussion hurdles and have decided that this person is a definite candidate for more than just a date here or there.
And indeed, a disagreement can sure show you a lot about someone! But I'm not looking for activities that would deliberately provoke one; life hands you enough of those without having to arrange it.
Wouldn't you want to know if someone is intensely competitive? Might not be a deal-breaker, but I'd rather know up front if someone can't bear to lose. (Or upsets the game board!)
--Ms. Flis | |
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| Dates as learning opportunities
Posted: 7/23/2007 3:46:15 PM | Roberto's is one of the reasons for living here...
So a haunted house tells you whether your date scares easily?
--Ms. Flis | |
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| Dates as learning opportunities
Posted: 7/23/2007 3:51:42 PM | While walking through the haunted house, just very casualy blow on him.......around his neck or arm. Psyche him out into thinking someone or something is near him......
I think it would be funny just to watch them freak out or maybe scream! Nothing like pulling pranks on your date....... | |
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| Dates as learning opportunities
Posted: 7/23/2007 6:43:00 PM | I think I see what you are getting at here OP! I once had a male friend who really was one of those people that seemed awesome in every absolute way. I would have gotten deep into him - until we did several things together and saw his true colours. Let's just say - knowing this guy taught me not to take someone at face value - but to get to know them a little. He had a difficult side and not as moral as I thought.
Other men I have gone out with have also taught me huge lessons in life - some more than others but lessons none the less!
Dating as learning opportunities indeed they are!!! | |
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| Dates as learning opportunities
Posted: 7/23/2007 9:02:19 PM | Well, I think most dates are learning opportunities--some more than others. But yes, I'm specifically asking for situations that will help show someone's true colors, though I hadn't thought of it as a test of honesty or other such characterististic (although of course you'd want to know that too)--more like a preview of what you might expect from this person in a relationship. Some of that you're never going to know until you're actually in it, and even then time will show you more and more, but it seemed worth the exercise to see if we could come up with a few preliminary ways. The suggestion to take a trip together was a good idea, I thought, though perhaps premature for someone with whom a relationship hasn't been actually established.
--Ms. Flis | |
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| Dates as learning opportunities
Posted: 7/24/2007 6:20:04 AM | My entire dating life changed for me when I had this moment of dating satori.
I just went out to meet this woman I'd asked out, and had zero expectations. I showed up with a totally blank page in front of me. Unlike other dates, where I'd wondered where it would lead, on this one I just let it all go.
That date was one of the best I'd ever had up to that point in my life, and lasted fifteen hours (WAAAAY too long, btw and that ruined any chance of continuing). The lesson I learned (other than never do a fifteen hour date again.... ) was to simply allow myself that luxury when dating.
You show up, stay 100 percent "in the moment" and just start to sketch in the real person you are seeing in front of you on that blank page you have. By doing this , you release that person from any chains you may place on them that come with that big box of labels you have collected over your lifetime. | |
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| Dates as learning opportunities
Posted: 7/24/2007 4:51:01 PM | That's a great way to approach that first date/meeting. But I'm talking about further down the road, when you've acquainted yourself enough to believe this guy or girl just might be around for a while, and you've already sketched in the outline of that person. What shows you the finer details of the portrait?
--Ms. Flis | |
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| Dates as learning opportunities
Posted: 7/24/2007 4:57:52 PM | | Well if he isn't insisting on hiding the salami on the third date take him to Lone Pine and take in 11,000 gorgeous feet of relief. | |
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JWA
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Joined: 5/21/2005
Msg: 16 | |
| Dates as learning opportunities
Posted: 7/24/2007 4:59:37 PM | Your scenario about shopping for and preparing ingredients for a dinner has a few problems in it-----------the biggest coming to my mind is that is NOT a good indication of anything other then our individual habits at that moment---we're both still single but looking. Wouldn't such a thing as this be something that becomes an "us" thing after being in a relationship together for a length of time? We'd "grow" together, each adjusting to the other in a way that this sort of activity or chore becomes not so much a test as just another everyday thing we enjoy about being in a relationship.
It's rare two people come together and not have to adjust----how or IF we do would be the real indication of "where it's going" I think. Sure that isn't helpful in light of your question about a test or trial but is there a foolproof way for that anyway? Working together is something we learn to do and that takes time. Maybe you learn in a few dates or less---maybe it takes much longer. Any test administered so early can't really be a good predictor of things to come for the most part. | |
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| Dates as learning opportunities
Posted: 7/24/2007 6:03:47 PM | Perhaps I didn't word this correctly. I'm really not after any sort of test or trial that isn't provided by everyday living. What I was hoping for were ideas that let you see folks in many situations, especially those that might show you more about their character and behavior than you would be likely to see at, say, a restaurant or a theater. If you wanted children someday, for instance, wouldn't seeing how a date reacted to the chaos of a kid's birthday party give you an idea whether that person got along with children?
Okay, maybe the date at Chuck E. Cheese isn't such a good example...
--Ms. Flis | |
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| Dates as learning opportunities
Posted: 7/24/2007 6:13:10 PM | | I can only speak for me, but I have learned that the more you go out together in very crowded places you get a sense of how they deal with things like long lines, rude people, odd people, traffic and so forth. In my opinion you can tell if they might be impatient or quick tempered. | |
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| Dates as learning opportunities
Posted: 7/24/2007 7:10:37 PM | I think the key is to watch how they interact with others. The interaction they have with you is coloured by their feelings (and need to not be seen badly). The interactions they have with others can be far more telling.
Are they rude to a waiter, or a store clerk ? That might show you something.
Do they react badly at a kid's party ? Like the above example, it might simply be that they are tired, or have had a bad day. It might also (in this case) show that they are not used to that situation.
My point was that by remaining totally open and in the moment, at all times, allows you to avoid sticking a great big label on their forehead that they may not merit. It might be an indicator of YOU (and your perceptions) rather then THEM.
Also , as someone that was with someone for seventeen years, you have to realize that people will change with time. That's natural, and to be expected with any human being. | |
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| Dates as learning opportunities
Posted: 7/24/2007 9:47:03 PM | MS Flis,
You have the right idea, but you're looking in the wrong direction. To learn more quickly about someone, it's best to work on observation skills. Part of observing can be learning to ask the right questions, or just sit back and watch. Dinner offers a fantastic array of opportunities to observe your date:
1) Do they pay, or expect you to go dutch?
2) Do they open the door for you, pull out your chair, or stand up when you go to the bathroom?
3) How do they talk to the wait staff?
4) Are they paying attention to you, or the hott girl that just walked in.
5) Do they ask you how your meal is?
6) Are they asking you questions, or doing all the talking?
I think it's great you're trying to think of other places to go on a date, but work on the basics first. Here's an idea - ask HIM out on a date, and see how he reacts! | |
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| Dates as learning opportunities
Posted: 7/24/2007 11:31:56 PM | Ah, thanks for all the thoughtful responses.
DoubleCabin: Whose relief? Mr. Unhidden Salami's, or the woman's?
JWA: I'm not looking for a predictor, exactly--just better opportunities to flesh out what I've already seen. Here's the analogy I thought of tonight: The first few dates are a lot like the profiles here; people generally put their best foot forward. The kind of know-him/her-better a few dates later idea I'm trying to elicit is like the forums, when you start seeing the layers beneath those polished profiles.
Blondblue: Aha! Theme parks on holiday weekends! (Shudder.)
MontrealGuy and NerdStatus: Yup--I'm looking for ways and places to better observe. While you can do some of this with ordinary dinner dates, the idea is to see 'em in various situations. Not to label but rather to assess compatibility more accurately. And yes, anyone who is rude to staff anywhere is not likely to be seeing me again.
NerdStatus: I believe I have those observations skills already, but I find the dinner date is just too limited to draw out all the behaviors I'd want to observe. (Lordy, I'm starting to sound like Jane Goodall here...)
And it's interesting indeed to watch a guy's reaction when I ask him out... I don't do it very often anymore, but I do love to see the guy's face when I do! (Are YOU asking me out? Are you asking ME out? Are you asking me OUT?)
--Ms. Flis | |
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JWA
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Joined: 5/21/2005
Msg: 22 | |
| Dates as learning opportunities
Posted: 7/25/2007 4:23:42 AM |
I'm not looking for a predictor, exactly--just better opportunities to flesh out what I've already seen. Here's the analogy I thought of tonight: The first few dates are a lot like the profiles here; people generally put their best foot forward. The kind of know-him/her-better a few dates later idea I'm trying to elicit is like the forums, when you start seeing the layers beneath those polished profiles.
And Ms Flis I knew what you were seeking and my point was that it seems you are looking for a way to "fast forward" into the dating experience with a planned activity or situation which is why I used the word "predictor". Certainly there are events or actions that would automatically eliminate someone but I still think---and know from personal experience--it's only in the longer term do we get the full view or idea about a person. How many of us have been stunned by something done by a long time friend or SO, something we'd NEVER have imagined them capable of doing? Sometimes those discoveries are shocks or surprises, other times deal breakers but the point still is it takes time.
The observing and paying close attention to what you see is probably the best way going about this. Actions always speak louder than our best foot forward efforts or a well polished profile and I don't really think there's a short cut for that---it takes time to build trust and time to know a person more completely.
However I do wish there was a sure fire test for such things---it would make some of this dating stuff far easier! | |
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| Dates as learning opportunities
Posted: 7/25/2007 1:35:24 PM | But isn't the fast-forward button a wonderful thing? And wouldn't it be great if we could rewind life sometimes? And pause--that might be the best of all!
You're correct, of course, that it will take the longer term to show you a complete picture of anyone--as complete as you can get about anyone else, that is. Yet I still think there are ways of getting to know people that will provide more information than others. And we may not have uncovered them all, but my fellow posters have given me a few good ideas, not to mention a little food for thought. (Munch, munch.) Thanks!
--Ms. Flis | |
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| Dates as learning opportunities
Posted: 7/25/2007 7:21:31 PM |
Blondblue: Aha! Theme parks on holiday weekends! (Shudder.)
Yep, that and bumper to bumper traffic, you learn a lot in situations like those. | |
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| Dates as learning opportunities
Posted: 7/25/2007 7:39:23 PM |
For me it's the depth of conversation, the nitty gritty traits that can be seen from talking, asking, answering - and that can happen over coffee.
I agree. The more you talk to some one, the better picture you get of who they really are. Anyone can craft a good profile, and be on their best behavior for a date or two. But after awhile, the things they talk about, and the way they say things is a much bigger indicator of who they in fact are. As are the things that they harp on, and how much they talk about themselves, as opposed to talking about other people or getting to know you.
For instance, I had a date with a guy who seemed great. However, we got our signals crossed in terms of when we were going to meet on our first date. So, long story short, he felt that I kept him waiting for an hour and a half, and I felt that he had changed the meeting plan at the last minute and showed up early (I had not planned to leave home until he called.) Anyway, it was clear that we had a miscommunication. But this man, instead of moving on, threw in at least two subtle digs during the date. For me, that indicated that he is (a) not very patient and (b) not particularly forgiving. | |
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