| Gun violence Vs. Drunk Driving
Posted: 7/24/2007 11:08:45 AM | In Toronto, Ontario we recently had another shooting where an innocent child was caught in the cross fire of a gang fight in a crime infested neighborhood. These criminals and drug dealers have taken another victim. As a result, the provincial and city governments are calling for a complete ban on handguns.
In my view, this is a tragedy, our government has failed us. That said, I don’t think the call for a complete ban on hand guns is the answer. I believe the solution is much more complex. Focus on the neighborhoods with gang activity. Take the criminals with extensive criminal records (incidentally this was the perpetrator of this crime) off the streets. Focus on the criminals who are drug dealers, gun slingers and gun runners.
The fact is that the average Canadian citizen is much more likely to be killed by a drunk driver than by gun violence. Mother’s Against Drunk Driving (MADD) say that, “On average just under 4 Canadians are killed every day and just under 190 Canadians are injured each day” and that “approximately 70,000 Canadians impacted by impaired drivers annually.” This far outnumbers those killed or injured in gun violence. Perhaps, the Ontario provincial government and Toronto's local government should be looking to ban alcohol and cars rather than just handguns.
What are your thoughts?
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| Gun violence Vs. Drunk Driving
Posted: 7/24/2007 11:27:48 AM | | I think comparing one against the other is just sick!! You cannot put any statistics against one - to say that they should not both be taken extremely seriously! To belittle or to try and saracstically lighten the pain they both cause is wrong! Both causes are important to address - in both cases lives are lost and families are affected!! So what ever forces are put in place - to protect from loss of life - is very important and warranted. | |
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| Gun violence Vs. Drunk Driving
Posted: 7/24/2007 11:34:34 AM | Maybe the Provincial Governments might elect to bring in a vehicle registry????
OK on a more serious note you are comparing apples and oranges. The current laws allow the driver (except learners and under 18 or in some cases less than 1 year experience) to consume alcohol and drive providing they dont exceed .08.
All these myths about it being 2 x drinks are just that. Each persons metabolism is different and reacts differently. Other factors like lack of sleep and when they last ate also contribute. Even the ASD devices the Police use are not 100% accurate.
If you truly want to impact then you set a zero limit. That way excuses like well my client only had 3 x beers and he did run out in front of the vehicle cannot be used.
There is no excuse as the limit is ZERO.
A few restaurants might complain as you will not be allowed to drink that nice glass of wine with your evening meal are you prepared for that??????? | |
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| Gun violence Vs. Drunk Driving
Posted: 7/24/2007 12:16:03 PM | There is no need for handguns in Canada. They should be banned except as museum pieces. No private collections.
You want to target shoot, use a shotgun or bow and arrow.
Drunk driving is 100% preventable. Any accidents should be treated as premeditated. | |
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| Gun violence Vs. Drunk Driving
Posted: 7/24/2007 12:24:20 PM | Nascar I full heartly agree with your last statement..my niece was killed 6 yrs ago by a drunk driver..she herself had been drinking but had done the right thing an had parked her car an was walking from where they had been to sleep over at a friends place when she was struck from behind by as it turns out another who had been with them earlier in the night(racing with against another) heading to the same friends place.
As for the fire arms I don't like them an will not have them in my home.my father used to go trap shooting in competitions an hunting as well but the fire arms where never kepted in the home..near the end he sold his guns an rifles to a dealer an switched to a bow an arrow which he enjoyed just as much.. | |
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| Gun violence Vs. Drunk Driving
Posted: 7/24/2007 1:24:51 PM | | There is only one reason for the existance of a hand gun or any gun - and that is to kill. There should be no reason for anyone to have a gun if they were all banned - period. | |
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| Gun violence Vs. Drunk Driving
Posted: 7/24/2007 2:22:04 PM | There are many issues that come to light, especially when a young life is taken. I don't want to belittle the crime, but the cry to ban handguns is a joke. I wonder which criminals will turn in their guns when they are banned? Registration of handguns has been required in Canada since the 1930's. It isn't the legitimate registered owner of a handgun out shooting up neighbourhoods.
The real problem is the justice system. Our governments aren't willing to do what is necessary and fix it. Banning guns is just an easy political maneuver to deflect the real issue, pass the blame to another level of government, and buy votes in the next election. It won't prevent crime or get illegal guns off the street.
Just last week, Toronto Mayor Miller declared he will be reducing the police budget do to the shortfall. How is this going to help crime?
Fix our justice system:
-Enforce the laws we have in place. More funding to police agencies, courts and detention facilities.
-Put criminals away for the duration of their sentences, not 1/3, 1/2 or even 2/3. Put them away for the whole sentence.
-Make stiffer penalties for commission of crime with a weapon. No plea bargains allowed.
Comparing the two doesn’t make much sense, but even for drunk driving, more could be done for stiffer sentencing. | |
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| Gun violence Vs. Drunk Driving
Posted: 7/24/2007 2:45:32 PM | This world is going to hell. It's sad but true. That's why I'm going to colonize planet xl4572-diujck9382.
Oh, and you're more likely to get killed J-walking across ta highway as getting killed by a drunk driver or a gun, it's just that less people play in that type of traffic. | |
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| Gun violence Vs. Drunk Driving
Posted: 7/24/2007 2:58:08 PM |
Oh, and you're more likely to get killed J-walking across ta highway as getting killed by a drunk driver or a gun, it's just that less people play in that type of traffic.
And it doesn't give much for the media to blow out of proportion. | |
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| Gun violence Vs. Drunk Driving
Posted: 7/24/2007 3:26:46 PM | | Yes, but even if they were to try and ban alcohol and cars, all the government would do is sit around and call for the ban and not actually do anything about it. In my opinion, if you just get caught with an illegally owned gun, 15 years no questions asked. If you use a gun in a crime, automatic 25 years to be served after your term for the crime has been served not in conjuction with. For a modern, civilized country we are laughing stock. The Provincial and Federal governments are all talk, no action. | |
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| Gun violence Vs. Drunk Driving
Posted: 7/24/2007 9:17:28 PM | yeah, people kinda piss me off a bit with this gun control crap!
I KNOW all of you have heard that saying, guns don't kill people, people kill people. thats all it is!
if these dumbass crackheads in the city didn't have a gun to use, they would stab eachother, beat eachother with bats, etc... maybe start using improvised explosives to do the killing, wich would do alot more collateral damage.
The federal gvt agrees that the 2 Billion dollar gun registry (wich, all of us sports men that own firearms know was a joke before the vote) isn't working and they are trying to scrap it now.
wonder why a peice of paper saying I own a gun hasn't saved any lives... must be... because the people that kill other people don't care about a peice of paper saying "using a gun you don't own to kill is bad".
alot of you people that are against guns probably never had them in your homes growing up.. I did and guess what? I turned out OK I haven't shot anybody yet (I say yet due to my job) and I haven't shot myself... hell, I won't even point a gun at anyone unless I am in a training scenario.
Hand guns are already hard to legally aquire, and I don't own any, or have a need to own any hand guns. However, I have friends that enjoy target shooting, and other related sports so it would be unfair to take it away from these responsible people because some "homie" in the shitty part of town wants someone dead for "dissin his turf" or whatever they rap about... maybe music is the problem? or no, its gotta be the violence on TV... People need to stop finding the blame in the WAY things happen and focus on WHY they happen.
Gun violence and drunk driving aren't related... sure both are bad choices. the only way to control this is to control the people. if you take away guns to save lives, then whats to say we won't take away vehicles or alcohol to save them?
I think NOBODY should drink and drive and I have no respect for that, sure those offenders need to be taken care of, wich is the only way to control it... and it has been proven with the falling rates of impaired drivers that enforcement works, so maybe controlling and enforcing these thugs might help too?? | |
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| Gun violence Vs. Drunk Driving
Posted: 7/25/2007 1:15:12 AM | How timely this thread is.
On Friday two dear friends of mine, Netty and Andy Miller aged 66 and 65 were killed when a drunk driver slammed into them from behind at a railway crossing in Milton, Ontario. They were forced onto the tracks by the impact into the path of an oncoming train. Witnesses said he didn't even appear to try and slow down. The drunk who's name is Ingram Rahim Bakhsh (I think the name should be made public like pedophiles) , was facing two previous impaired charges in Peel region, and in all three cases he has refused to give breath samples.
They were from Scottland. Netty was a recent cancer survivor, and Andy and Netty had 4 children and 10 grandchildren, and were about the sweetest couple you would ever want to meet.
The thing that pisses me off the most is that this guy will likely get rehab and a slap on the wrist jail sentence.
If he had walked up to them and shot them with a handgun he'd be a murderer and get life.
Premeditated or not, he's a killer. If he took a handgun and randomly shot two innocent people in public, would being an alcoholic matter? | |
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| Gun violence Vs. Drunk Driving
Posted: 7/25/2007 4:01:03 AM |
If he had walked up to them and shot them with a handgun he'd be a murderer and get life.
The truth of the matter is, in Canada ~ it just doesn't happen...In the United States, yes - But not in Canada...Simply because the Canadian Judicial System is disgusting! Go Dalton! Pardon the sarcasm...
Fortunately, I have not been a victim of gun violence, but I am human and these stories break my heart...Especially the ones that involve the innocent, whether it'd be animals, the elderly or children...Canada shouldn't be like this...
Perhaps all of these gang bangers should meet up a field somewhere and go nuts on each other...Gee - There's a suggestion!
On the other hand ~ Unfortunately, I have seen how families have been absolutely destroyed by people that chose to drive drunk behind the wheel...
**Anyone who claims the life of a person by using a weapon should receive an automatic 10years in prison - and a vehicle mixed with alcohol is a weapon...A deadly weapon at that...Why is it so easy for me to come up with suggestions, yet Ottawa can't seem to pass any bills? ** --> There are no such things as alcohol-related accidents...
Humble Pie: I pass along my condolences to you ~ for your friends... | |
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| Gun violence Vs. Drunk Driving
Posted: 7/25/2007 3:31:42 PM | Humble Pie: My condolences, sorry to hear about your friends.
The purpose of my post was not to belittle gun violence or drunk driving. My point was to emphasis the tremendous impact that drunk driving has on society. The impact of drunk driving far out ways that of gun violence, yet the government continues to ignore its impact and chooses to focus instead on gun violence, that in reality affects far fewer people overall. | |
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| Gun violence Vs. Drunk Driving
Posted: 7/25/2007 8:29:49 PM | | Drinking and driving isnt new , thats what your missing when you did make this thread ...all these shootings are new and do take the headlines cause of what they have tried to do about it and how much they have spent on it this far . Guns are made for one thing... and only one thing to kill ...where a car is not considered a weapon unless someone makes it that way . Guns are a weapon and if you read you`ll see that KIDS are now packing guns with their lunches ...kids arent jumping in a car after tieing one on and going for a spin down the 401 . You cant compare the 2 at all , a weapon vs a drunk driver isnt the same , tho the gun will always take the headlines before the drunk driver will ... Canada needs new laws for this bullshit ... drunk drivers shouldnt be able to drive if theyve been busted ... then again who can say someone is drunk if they just blow over? as for guns... they should have an all out ban on any type of fire arm... hunters need to find a differant hoby . As for the laws... as soon as your busted with a gun.. say hello to your new home for the next 15 yrs ... young offenders act is also bullshit , at what age did you know right from wrong ? Canada needs to get tough | |
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| Gun violence Vs. Drunk Driving
Posted: 7/25/2007 8:47:45 PM | I choose not to drink and drive.
But let me tell you this.
'There have been MANY times in my life that if we were allowed to have guns, I would have used it.
Thankfully we can't, and I am not spending my life in jail over anger.
Having no guns here in Canada, is awsome.
There is no need for guns unless hunting.
My goodness people were canadians, use a hockeystick | |
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| Gun violence Vs. Drunk Driving
Posted: 7/26/2007 8:14:32 AM | you urban types don't know the first thing about guns being in a house hold.. and to just go right out and have us hunters change our "hobby" wtf... Do you not realize some of the best moments of my growing up were walking through the bush with an experienced hunter, having them teach me and show me things... how to read prints, how to recognize a trail, how long ago the animal passed by, how to read land, and hell... how to use a map and compass. its a good way to spend time with your kids, a good way to teach and use self control.
I don't agree that some guy trying to live the hip hop life style has the right to change my life, part of who I am because he killed someone I don't know, and possibly someone that has killed other people for DRUGS... wait... what?! yeah, DRUGS thats the damn issue with all this gun crap, thats where it starts.
I AM country, I can't remember a time where I didn't live in a house without fire arms, nobody in my familly has died from a gun shot, none of my friends have either. See, regulations state that fire arms must be locked in a suitable space, such as a gun vault (wich, are usually made heavy so they are nearly impossible to move easily in one peice) with either the action/bolt removed, or the triggers locked AND the ammunition MUST be in a seperate locked container. THAT is how accidents are prevented, not by saying a responsible, legal gun owner such as myself is not allowed to possess and use something that has been handed down to me and is something I take pride in, knowing I've probably spent a hell of alot more time experiencing nature than most of you. I don't go out and blast everythign that moves, I spend weeks scouting out a spot, learning animal patterns even before season starts, then when season starts I sit there for hours, days, and hell spend a full weekend out in the bush waiting for one perfect shot that might not come that season. I enjoy wildlife, last month I sat and watched 10 turkeys walk across a field and not even notice me there, hunters are not some blood thirsty nearly insane people that killed bambi's mom.
yes, gun control is needed, and we HAVE it, its to prevent accidents but people will kill no matter what the tool. its to prevent the chance of an 8 year old finding daddys handgun under the matress and accidentally shooting a friend, it can't stop some ****ed up (I can't say this word here) from going out and shooting some guy for selling crack on the corner to some 13 year old kids. (Maybe he deserves a death sentence for selling drugs to people too young to know better anyways)
that is a seperate culture in our society, of violence and murder and yes, it is very sad when someone innocent is affected by it. but when its some gang banger with his brains blown out on the sidewalk, I some how don't really feel all that bad for the guy... thats the life he chose.
Gun control has been beaten to death!
Its criminal control that is needed, time to wrench down on these losers, beat some sense into them and maybe they will get the hint that you can make money in other ways other than preying on people.
this is a free country, and I feel I have the right to make the decision to be a legal gun owner and user. once you start to take away peoples freedomes such as this, it starts feeling more and more like communism. People get hurt, kids fall and break arms at the playground so hey, lets take down the playgrounds so the kids get fat and eventually die from obesity! Or maybe we should totally ban swimming because every year a few people drown... its just because guns are in the news and gets a rise out of ignorant people that they are focused in. They get more cover time in the news cast than the case of a pedofile on the loose!
people don't grow up around fire arms anymore and as a result, they are afraid of a peice of steel and wood because they don't know how to deal with them. | |
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| Gun violence Vs. Drunk Driving
Posted: 7/26/2007 12:51:48 PM | Yeah... I can think of other good reasons to have them around.
Hand guns have a totally different set of laws set up for them than long guns... wich is why its called the "long gun registry" because hand guns are already registered.
the long gun registry didn't have an effect because it usually isn't a sawed off rifle or shot gun used in a crime, just a hand gun, so that long gun registry was a joke.
To legally own a hand gun, you have to jump through alot of hoops... enough to deter me from wanting one, but I know people that do and they haven't used them to kill anyone.
So hey, lets ban hand guns... THEN you will see the sawed down high cailber, high powered rifles, and the shotguns shooting out buck shot used in crimes. I'd rather it be a 9mm that has an effective range of about 150 metres used in a downtown shooting than it be a 30-06 that will be lethal at over a kilometre... THINK people, not that hard.
so there are guns in the world, and people use them for bad things... but people will always find a way to do what they want if they want it bad enough.
just how it is, if you aren't happy, build a concrete bunker in your basement and stay there so you are safe... me... I think I'll enjoy life and not worry about it. Lol even tho I know I most likely will be getting shot at in my life quite a bit, and I will have people trying to blow me into vulture meat, I'm not that afraid of a bit of risk in ontario | |
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| Gun violence Vs. Drunk Driving
Posted: 7/26/2007 3:37:17 PM | where are your brains people ... we need to spend another 1 Billion $$$$ on an enhanced gun registry and maybe even school for criminals how to write up the registry forms ....
and even it's only the first murder, perhaps the criminal needs more lawyers and constitutional rights .... law abiding citizen ... hell you have no rights ....
what a waste of time | |
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| Gun violence Vs. Drunk Driving
Posted: 7/26/2007 6:30:33 PM | cdnredneck I can support your cause of not needing to eliminate all guns, but your maniacal stance doesn't really help champion your side of the story. I happen to agree that there is value in hunting. I have no desire to go out shooting animals and think it's a pretty barbaric and unnecessary thing, but there probably is a positive environmental impact in some way. I also don't want to think about where my tasty steak comes from, but it's probably killed no worse than a hunter kills a deer.
However; we are not talking about hunting. We are talking about handguns. The only place they belong is museums. No matter how responsible owners are, there is still no reason to have them. Having a gun law that makes it illegal to possess a hand gun makes it cut and dry to process, prosecute and detain a criminal. If it were an automatic minimum jail sentence, then kids would be less likely to put one in their hands. As a former teen delinquent, I can assure you that no kid wants to go to jail.
My question to you is, what do you think would be the negative loss if to possess a handgun were illegal? | |
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| Gun violence Vs. Drunk Driving
Posted: 7/26/2007 10:46:30 PM | When are people going to stop and think? Banning handguns will NOT get them out of the hands of criminals. You may not like guns or have any use for them, but believing that is naive. I don't own any, but I can certainly see that this is nothing more than a misguided and often political stance taken by those who are blind or too lazy to do the right thing....
FIX THE REVOLVING DOOR JUSTICE SYSTEM!!! | |
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| Gun violence Vs. Drunk Driving
Posted: 7/27/2007 9:13:31 AM | Gun violence Vs. Drunk Driving > I agree there should be no VS.
Drunk Driving is disgusting & I feel the ppl driving drunk should have no chance at ever having a licence again!
Hand guns > we have NO need for as citizens! So I agree they should stop the sales of hand guns & put them in a museum
( & nobody did mention that would stop criminals from obtaining them) but not having shooting ranges & sales of hand guns would make it more difficult for the fvck'n losers that obtain them illegally
ppl purcashing hand guns for shooting ranges have their FAC! To obtain the FAC ppl should have to be evaluated better not just their learning ability & police check & wow they passed they get a hand gun...woot woot
On a lighter note > We could get the hand gun ppl to Target practice @ the Criminals that have committed serious offences like Drunk Driving, manslaughter, murder, rape etc! We could save all those tax dollars from going to jails to support those criminals | |
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