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Posted: 7/28/2007 6:54:41 PM | Ok if you beleive in adam and eve, then we are all backward ass inbred hillbillies if we all evolved from those first 2. I mean eve would have had to have sex with her sons. Or their sons would have had to had sex with their sisters, or whatever. Thats why i choose not to beleive in the adam and eve thing. Plus how did we get blacks , arabs, indians....??
Anyways if you think back on it its amazing. First of all for one thing that is human like to mutate and form is awesome, but to have several diffreent genetic mutations that all formed something human like is weird...... Im probly related to 90 percent of you guys depending on how far back we ever traced a tree. I wonder how many original breeding pairs there was, 10,20.....100.......  | |
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Posted: 7/28/2007 8:19:44 PM | It's possible that God created more than Adam and Eve. It's possible God created whites, black, asians, in the beginning and when adan and eve sinned it fell upon the other races. I also don't believe in the world wide flood if so then the human fate is dependant upon 8 people to re-populate the entire earth. Native american indians wouldn't of cross the barren straight to inhabit northern america a few thousands of years before cristopher colombo discovered it. We wouldn't have 6 billion plus people on earth now days just from 8 survivors from the flood.
But I believe Adam and Eve represented the human race. When they sinned it fell upon the other races. I also believe the flood happened but I also believe its not even remotely possible for the entire earth to be flooded. | |
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Posted: 7/28/2007 11:23:47 PM | | A world wide flood is pretty easy to believe if you consider the melting of a LOT of ice... y'know, like the polar ice caps, the glaciers, and other masses of frozen water.. | |
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Posted: 7/29/2007 1:47:39 AM | Say it with me kids...one, two, three....
M-E-T-A-P-H-O-R
metaphor.
Mythological language uses metaphor to relate concepts.
That's today's Religion forum spelling bee answer. Won't. You bee. My Neighbours.
Goodnight neighbours. | |
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Posted: 7/29/2007 3:45:01 AM | | The earth was NEVER totally flooded... this is a fact... as the madfiddler says "Metaphor". The sun never stood still in the sky and Jesus never walked on water. There are so many metaphors in the bible it is ironic to say you would not believe. Lol! | |
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Posted: 7/29/2007 7:42:36 AM | Stories of the flood are almost word for word the same that came from the first civilization to have a written language. The Sumer civilization grow around the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers in Present days Iraq. For a people living in a river valley environment a great flood story makes a lot of sense. To those people a flood could consume their whole world.
The Adam and Eve story does need a lot of questions to be answered. Could 2 or 8 people repopulate the whole world with 8 billion humans? Sure why not. They didn't use birth control there wasn't TV so you didn't have all that much to do for an evenings entertainment. The only reason that Men invented Wine beer is to get woman tipsy so she would let her guard down.
We could have come from a very limited stock. Being a bunch of inbreds might explain a lot about the human race. | |
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Posted: 7/29/2007 8:32:30 AM | | didnt you ever wonder,if they werent black,arab.....of course thery were not 'white! | |
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Posted: 7/29/2007 9:38:30 AM | Yep. Metaphor.
Most religions trace the ancestry of Man back to a single male and female, but it's not meant to be taken literally. They are the *archetypal* man and woman that the human species is *patterned* after.
As for the flood; pretty well all mythologies mention such an event. And why not considering that the Ice Age ended some 12,000 years ago, freeing up most of NW Europe (which was covered by a great ice sheet) for habitation and bringing about a corresponding rise in sea levels. Thus how the British Isles became islands and how NE Asia was disconnected from North America, for example. | |
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Posted: 7/29/2007 12:08:14 PM | | There are actaully alot of sources in alternative histories that offer a lot of proof for the happening of a world wide flood. I don't believe eight people repopulated the earth after that, but almost every single culture on all continets has a story about a collossal flood. Who knows. | |
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Posted: 7/29/2007 12:46:02 PM | There is no proof of a worldwide flood. What there IS proof of is MANY giant floods around the world. The flooding of the Black Sea is likely the main source of Middle-Eastern and Central Asian flood myths. Nevada, Oregon, Washington, Idaho, and parts of Montana were repeatedly flooded by eruptions from unimaginably large glacial lakes. Regions around the Himalaya are subject to both glacial lake outbursts and monsoon rain floods. I expect that South America is the same in that respect. Europe experienced glacial outbursts, and this is apparently the ultimate cause of Britain's isolation [a glacial lake outburst scoured away a narrow peninsula connecting Britain to France - this week's issue of Nature]. Countries around the Mediteranean would have also been affected by the flooding of the Mediterranean.
As the glaciers retreated, massive lakes were left behind, dammed by gravel and mud. Bursting of these dams washed away anything and everything in their paths, over and over sometimes. Land rebounding from the weight of ice, plus the addition of glacial water to the oceans caused a relative rise in sea levels. One of the first consequences of this was ocean water breeching into the Mediterranean [where civilization was widespread already]. Shortly after this, they breeched the Black Sea. The last seems to be the source of the biblical myths, but there is an obvious connection for similar-age myths worldwide. The connection isn't a single flood, but many catastrophic floods at more or less the same time.
Insofar as an ancestry of two is concerned, there is a degree of possibility to it, though it is highly unlikely. Many ancient communities could probably trace their ancestry orally at least a few generations. It would not be surprising if "insignificant" ancestors were forgotten, and before long, everyone in the community [and surrounding communities] can trace their backgrounds to the same people. Male ancestry is often traced by surname. This can create an illusion of singularity, since a name and its derivatives can be traced back to fewer and fewer people, with other names dying out along the way. There are other scenarios, but basically, it's very easy to create an illusion of an ancestry of only two people.
Where the reality is concerned, many species have suffered "bottlenecks", wherein most of the population was lost and only a small gene pool left. It's not likely that gene pool would be only two [highly different], but whether two or few, enough diversity can remain for the species to persist and regain its viability. If such a bottleneck exists for humans as a whole, it is likely a couple MILLION years ago, the last point at which all humans shared a single female ancestor. That was clearly enough time for regained viability, since many genera and species of hominid have come and gone in that time, many from that very same ancestor. What this also means, though, is that modern humans cannot have only a single maternal ancestor, since the last shared female ancestor was before modern humans existed. | |
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Posted: 7/29/2007 3:20:01 PM | Posted By: skypoetone on 7/29/2007 6 01 AM: "The earth was NEVER totally flooded... this is a fact... as the madfiddler says "Metaphor". The sun never stood still in the sky and Jesus never walked on water. There are so many metaphors in the bible it is ironic to say you would not believe. Lol!"
I guess unbelievers have every bit as much right to their unbeliefs as a believers have to their beliefs. However, I think unbelievers should always keep an open mind. Merely one pivotal unexplainable event in your lives could plant a seed of faith which would be conducive to more miracles which in turn would bring about a change of heart and your eventual salvation. | |
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Posted: 7/29/2007 7:18:55 PM | | What was this topic about? Well back in the old days everyone thoght the earth was flat. So it flooded and noah thought the whole world was flooded because he saw nothin but flood water everywhere. Surely if he didn't see ground then it was all covered up cause earth was flat...right? NO, NO , NO it wasn't until cristorhper colombo crash into plymoth rock and took the first step into american soil that we finaliy figure out the earth was round. That was like back in late 1700's right before declaration of the constitution. | |
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Posted: 7/30/2007 2:46:26 AM | garry
I guess unbelievers have every bit as much right to their unbeliefs as a believers have to their beliefs. However, I think unbelievers should always keep an open mind.
It's not so much a question of open-mindedness as reality (albeit from my perspective). In the end one has to choose which way to go, right? That is not to say I am 100% correct of anything I - you or they say.
Merely one pivotal unexplainable event in your lives could plant a seed of faith, which would be conducive to more miracles which in turn would bring about a change of heart and your eventual salvation.
I'm all for seeds of anything that can clarify an event/events. :) | |
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Posted: 8/3/2007 7:35:32 AM | The bible says that Adam and Eve were the first....not the ONLY.
Jesus walking on water? Perhaps it was frozen.
I agree with those who say that, in general, the bible is taken too literally. | |
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Posted: 8/3/2007 8:22:29 AM | Yes, Adam and Eve could have created the whole human race AND that statement is supported by science.
If God created Adam and Eve, then they would have been perfect physically. Don't start the "If they were perfect, why did they sin?" crap, becuase the answer has been said plenty of times: "Free-will". Adam and Eve choose to sin, it wasn't because of some inherent flaw in their being. Back on track...If they were perfect, then they didn't have any defective genes to pass their children. So their children could have married each other and produced perfectly healthy babies. It was around 2000 years after creation that God commanded that brothers and sisters could no longer marry. I suppose it was at that point that the number of defective genes had built up to a level that endangered life. Ignore the supernatural and address this fact: Two beings of any species, who lacked any genetic flaws would produce perfectly healthy babies and their offspring could safely inter-breed for many generations before the number of negative genes built up enough to produce deformed young.
The need for vitamin D drives changes to human skin color, this is a well established and accepted theory. N Jablonski theorizes that human skin color could evolve in less than a thousand years. She determined this by studying non-indigenous populations that had migrated from their normal habitate (for example: Africans living in Europe). | |
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Posted: 8/3/2007 11:39:07 AM |
Yes, Adam and Eve could have created the whole human race AND that statement is supported by science.
I'm sure you have a peer reviewed journal or two that provides a good article on just how this little bit of genetic magic can be performed then...since it is so "supported by science."
Love to see it.
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Posted: 8/3/2007 11:43:52 AM |
I'm sure you have a peer reviewed journal or two that provides a good article on just how this little bit of genetic magic can be performed then...since it is so "supported by science."
Love to see it.
Read my post maybe? I mean all of it. Why would you ask your question, without bothering to read what I posted? Typical of atheists, the possbility that Christians could be right about anything is unthinkable. | |
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Posted: 8/3/2007 11:48:59 AM | Keeping in mind, I am not the most knowledgeable on the subject, I don't believe there was a world wide flood either... The question in my mind is were we around when the Earth cracked out of the C-shaped continent making the continental drift? If so, we would have sailed(for lack of a better word) to the different areas of the globe and started adapting to each climate respectively...
There is alot of speculation about Atlantis(The point of human origin) being a continent after the drift... I kinda believe if there was an Atlantis it was the Earth before it started forming continents and that we adapted and survived the pangaea effect...
There were three major phases in the break-up of Pangaea. The first phase began in the Early-Middle Jurassic, when Pangaea created a rift from the Tethys Ocean from the east and the Pacific from the west. The rifting took place between North America and Africa, the rift produced multiple failed rifts. The rift resulted in a new ocean, the Atlantic Ocean.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangaea | |
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Posted: 8/3/2007 12:38:01 PM | spidercmb, I read your whole post. What am I missing? I don't see any references what so ever to support your argument. Your only reference is to N Jablonski in regard to skin color. i have not looked your source up so I won't comment on what he has to say.
i will comment on what you said about skin color. Assume you are using skin color to prove that humans could become racially different in less then a 1000 years?
Skin color alone does not tell us much about how the different racial characteristics came about in less then 1000 years. There are different bone structures, muscular structures and a lot more going on then just the color or lack of color in the pigment of ones skin. | |
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Posted: 8/3/2007 1:06:05 PM |
If they were perfect, then they didn't have any defective genes to pass their children. So their children could have married each other and produced perfectly healthy babies
And live to a phenomenal age with life span gradually decreasing over time as the ancient scribes noted. | |
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Posted: 8/3/2007 1:12:31 PM |
Read my post maybe? I mean all of it. Why would you ask your question, without bothering to read what I posted? Typical of atheists, the possbility that Christians could be right about anything is unthinkable.
Tell you what, instead of starting the ball rolling with an ad hominem response - and an assumption that because I am not in agreement with your statement that I am an atheist - why don't you just produce some kind of evidence as I inquired for that might support your claim.
After all, you stated that science supports the proposition that the entire human race could be started by one man and one woman. How hard could it be to find a piece of peer reviewed science to back that up if it is so well supported? | |
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Posted: 8/3/2007 1:23:30 PM |
After all, you stated that science supports the proposition that the entire human race could be started by one man and one woman. How hard could it be to find a piece of peer reviewed science to back that up if it is so well supported?
I really don't know what you want...What I said is 5th grade science.
Deformities are caused by defective genes shared by both parents building up in their children, so it's more common with relatives. When two people who are related have children, we call it inbreeding. But if two parents had NO defective genes, their children would be perfectly capable of having children without defects. Has a study been done on this? No, because it's so basic that no study is required.
It wasn't an ad hominem, you either didn't read my post or you read it and didn't understand it. It's VERY simple. I learned about the Punnett square in 5th grade. No defective genes in the parents would mean that each generation would have a slight increase in defective genes, but the increase would take many generations before two siblings would be in danger of producing an inbred child. | |
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Posted: 8/3/2007 1:33:58 PM | Artz,
Read about Prunett's square: http://anthro.palomar.edu/mendel/mendel_2.htm
Read about Mendel: http://anthro.palomar.edu/mendel/mendel_1.htm
Read about hereditary disease: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hereditary_disease
This isn't something that's tricky, if there are no defective genes, then there can be no hereditary diseases. If there are no defective genes, two siblings can produce children and and their children can marry and reproduce and so on for many generations without fear of inbreeding. There is no study, there is no research done on this, it's simply a fact of how genetics work.
I'm not trying to be offensive, but this is the most basic principle in genetics.
N. Jablonski is a woman, Nina Jablonski.
http://www.bgsu.edu/departments/chem/faculty/leontis/chem447/PDF_files/Jablonski_skin_color_2000.pdf
http://www.brynmawr.edu/alumnae/bulletin/jablonsk.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_skin_color | |
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Posted: 8/3/2007 1:39:32 PM |
And live to a phenomenal age with life span gradually decreasing over time as the ancient scribes noted.
Exactly right. Adam and Eve's children discovered music and metal working very early on, because their genetics made them all extremely intelligent. How did the pyrimids, stone henge, etc get built without modern technology? Because the builders were all extremely intelligent. Their skill and creativity still inspires wonder and they never once saw an I-Pod. | |
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