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 Author Thread: Russians Claim North Pole
 Darrr

Joined: 3/14/2007
Msg: 1
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Russians Claim North Pole
Posted: 8/2/2007 10:28:19 AM
This just in from the Globe & Mail............I don't know about everyone else, but if there is global warming, I would likely be one of the many who would flock to the North Pole, what do you think................


Russian mini-subs plant flag at North Pole sea bed
UNNATI GANDHI AND ALAN FREEMAN

Globe and Mail Update

August 2, 2007 at 9:36 AM EDT

Russian explorers dived deep below the North Pole in a submersible on Thursday and planted a national flag on the seabed to stake a symbolic claim to the energy riches of the Arctic.

A mechanical arm dropped a specially made rust-proof titanium flag onto the Arctic seabed at a depth of 4,261 metres under the surface, Itar-Tass news agency quoted expedition officials as saying.

The expedition leader, Artur Chilingarov, who was aboard one MIR 1 three-person sub, told colleagues on a research ship on the surface that his craft had reached the seabed.

"The landing was smooth, the yellowish ground is around us, no sea dwellers are seen," he said, according to the ITAR-Tass news agency.


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As part of the expedition aimed at claiming vast swaths of the Arctic Ocean seabed, the Rossiya atomic icebreaker burrowed a path to the Pole through a sheet of multiyear ice, clearing the way for the Akademik Fedorov research ship. But the Russian effort, which will also gather geologic samples and look into the possibility of the Arctic shelf containing nine billion tonnes of oil and gas deposits, is seen by Canadian experts as not much more than a symbolic gesture.

In Ottawa, the Department of Foreign Affairs wouldn't comment on the Russian actions but reiterated Canada's traditional claim to Arctic sovereignty.

"Canada's sovereignty over the lands and waters of the Canadian Arctic is long-standing, well established and based on historic title," said a Foreign Affairs spokesman.

Michael Byers, Canada Research Chair in Global Politics and International Law at the University of British Columbia, said the planting of the titanium Russian flag in the waters at the Pole has no legal significance but it does make a point.

"The planting of the flag is purely political symbolism and most of that is directed at a Russian audience but it does send a reminder to places like Ottawa of the very impressive Arctic capabilities that the Russians have," he said in an interview.

However, he does give credit to the Harper government for placing more emphasis on Arctic sovereignty, most notably the announcement last month of plans to spend $3.1-billion on six to eight patrol vessels capable of operating in ice up to a metre thick and on construction of a deep-water port in the North to service them.

The Russian moves put extra importance on the Prime Minister's planned visit to the Arctic next week. "That trip to the Arctic will not hurt," Prof. Byers said.

But the real urgency is for Canada to undertake seismic mapping of the ocean floor, which is essential to Canada's scientific assertion of sovereignty over the far reaches of the Arctic. The government is planning to use Canada's aging icebreaker, the Louis S. St-Laurent, to undertake some of the work but Prof. Byers said it's essential to charter a heavy icebreaker from the Finns or even the Russians to get the work done in time.

Canada must make its claim to the continental shelf by the end of 2013 under terms of its ratification of the UN Law of the Sea. Russia is making its own claim by the end of this year to the same UN agency.

But there are only five extreme-depth submarines in the world that can reach the depths of the Arctic Ocean: the French, the Americans and the Japanese each have one, while the Russians have two.

The fact that Canada, of which 40 per cent is the Arctic, does not have the capability of getting to the sea floor at the Pole is significant, according to Joe MacInnes, a Canadian diver who led the first team of scientists to dive under the ice at the North Pole.

"I've always taken the position that it's one thing to claim sovereignty. It's another thing to be able to go to the place that you claim. The Russians at least have got a sub that takes them to the bottom, that's the place that they're claiming."

Sergey Petrov, chargé d'affaires at the Russian embassy in Ottawa, said the expedition is an extension of the historic interest Russia has taken in the Arctic, dating as far back as the 1930s. The placement of the Russian flag is only part of the reason they'll descend to the sea floor.

"I'm sure that every nation that would do such a heroic [expedition] would put something precious at the place, and the national flag is something that's respected and is considered the most precious symbol."

With report from Associated Press and Reuters
 JumpingRaindrops

Joined: 2/2/2006
Msg: 2
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Russians Claim North Pole
Posted: 8/2/2007 11:20:18 AM
Well, what the heck are they gonna DO with it?!?
 smileybear

Joined: 3/9/2007
Msg: 3
Russians Claim North Pole
Posted: 8/2/2007 1:02:28 PM
Betcha Santas pissed with them messing up his landscaping. As far as imperialisim and claiming things they dont own the russians are 45 years late. The U.S. nuclear submarine Nautilus did it in the 60's
 DeusXMachina

Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4
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Russians Claim North Pole
Posted: 8/2/2007 1:11:35 PM
They'd claim North Wales if they thought they could get away with it. Shameless political opportunism with no actual moral or legal weight
 JumpingRaindrops

Joined: 2/2/2006
Msg: 5
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Russians Claim North Pole
Posted: 8/2/2007 1:30:09 PM
Hey, I want to claim North Wales! But I'd settle for Bali....
 high_procrastination

Joined: 7/26/2006
Msg: 6
Russians Claim North Pole
Posted: 8/2/2007 1:42:57 PM
Finally, the old crazy Russia is back!
 slysterling

Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 7
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Russians Claim North Pole
Posted: 8/2/2007 1:44:43 PM
"""Well, what the heck are they gonna DO with it?!?"""

"""...A mini-submarine dropped a titanium capsule containing a Russian flag on the ocean floor at the North Pole Thursday, in a symbolic claim of the polar region's oil and minerals.

If recognized, the claim would give Russia control of almost half of the Arctic seabed, an area as large as the Prairie provinces that could be abundant in natural resources such as oil and gas."""
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/08/02/russia-arctic.html
 firefly013

Joined: 6/23/2007
Msg: 8
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Russians Claim North Pole
Posted: 8/2/2007 1:54:35 PM
about as viable a claim as America has on the moon! someone needs to give vlad putin a prozac i.v. drip. Last i knew, there was no land at the north pole.
I think he needs to drink more vodka. dropping a flag on a sea bed doesnt give you ownership.
it just makes you a joke.
 Duckman_2

Joined: 5/15/2007
Msg: 9
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Russians Claim North Pole
Posted: 8/2/2007 2:01:58 PM
Does this mean the U.S. owns the moon because we put up a flag there?
 slysterling

Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 10
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Russians Claim North Pole
Posted: 8/2/2007 2:10:56 PM
"""dropping a flag on a sea bed doesnt give you ownership"""
No it doesn't. But it sure does send a message to this country that if you say it's yours, you better be able to travel there. We can't. there's only 7 vesselss in the world that can get there. Russia owns two of them and we own none as usual.

To me it also possibly sends a message of things to come down the road as hinted in another thread about the world 25 years from now with Russia, China, India and brazil all looking for base metals, minerals, oil and other resources to fuel their rapidly growing economies.

The Russians are coming. the russians are coming...That was an old movie from the late 60's, but what's old is new and what's new is usually old is an old saying.
 Prime Beef

Joined: 1/11/2006
Msg: 11
Russians Claim North Pole
Posted: 8/2/2007 3:54:54 PM
Now all the elves have to learn to speak Russian.
 mungojoe

Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 12
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Russians Claim North Pole
Posted: 8/2/2007 4:09:34 PM
Russia is making the claim because of a "finger" of the continental shelf that extends from northern Russia to the Canadian Arctic.

By international law a nation can make a claim for control of resources under their continental shelf (to a maximum of something like 350 miles offshore).

This is the same basis (along with the presence of the islands of the Arctic Archipelago and its use thereof) that Canada uses to make its claim to the Canadian Arctic. It is also a part of the basis of dispute between Canada and the US (since the US portion of the continental shelf is rather tiny and doesn't give them access. That's why they keep trying to insist that the Arctic is international even though most of it is part of Canada's continental shelf)

The question becomes: Is that bit of continental shelf enough to satisfy a claim to a portion of the resources?

It wouldn't realy have any effect on Canada's claim to the Arctic Archipelago (which is undeniably contiguous) but it may mean having to split the difference on some of the resources under the arctic.
 cleve rides again

Joined: 7/30/2007
Msg: 13
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Russians Claim North Pole
Posted: 8/2/2007 4:52:30 PM
It's all just political posturing for the inevitable Oil war. Nothing more nothing less they have teams or researchers that will eventually develop the technology to extract the resources from that region and when they do Russia is staking their claim. It is a reality that will have to be dealt with in this century so why not start preparing now.
 askingquestions

Joined: 1/29/2006
Msg: 14
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Russians Claim North Pole
Posted: 8/2/2007 8:12:08 PM
Have you actually seen a map of the area Russia wants to claim? It really isn't that bad and the area could be better claimed by Russia than anyone else. It's not like they want absolutely everything right up to our shores.

Here's a link to a map of the Russian claim:

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2005/10/09/international/20051010_ARCTIC_GRAPHIC_2.html
 vg angel

Joined: 8/20/2006
Msg: 15
Russians Claim North Pole
Posted: 8/2/2007 11:33:52 PM
I coulda sworn Canada had dibs on that piece of ice pack. Do you think they'd flip a loonie for it?
 Babylonia

Joined: 1/27/2005
Msg: 16
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Russians Claim North Pole
Posted: 8/3/2007 7:30:21 AM
There is one smaller area where Canada's claim and Russia's claim overlap, and that will be the problem.
 Ottawa_Chicklet

Joined: 8/5/2006
Msg: 17
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Russians Claim North Pole
Posted: 8/3/2007 8:11:11 AM

There is one smaller area where Canada's claim and Russia's claim overlap, and that will be the problem.


Guess we'll have to kick their Rusky a$$es like we did in '72.

Mr. Harper, time to get those Chinese-made killer pea-shooters from off the shelves so we can attack. No doubt, it will be a bruise-shed like no other.
 Babylonia

Joined: 1/27/2005
Msg: 18
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Russians Claim North Pole
Posted: 8/3/2007 8:36:59 AM
I'd better go Wiki what happened in '72 (hockey???).
 conor78

Joined: 5/22/2007
Msg: 19
Russians Claim North Pole
Posted: 8/3/2007 8:50:29 AM
They can have the place as far as I'm concerned. It's not like they can turn that area into an area for land development.
 Babylonia

Joined: 1/27/2005
Msg: 20
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Russians Claim North Pole
Posted: 8/3/2007 9:15:56 AM
^^^It is a hotbed for natural resources.

We'll see how this plays out. Russia is already suffering strained relations with the UK,. Remember too that the US has serious concerns about this, and will undoubtedly stick their collective noses in this as well. I wish we were stronger as a nation to stand up, but we are strong in political ties, which will pose a problem for the Russians.
 Thatguy67

Joined: 9/20/2006
Msg: 21
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Russians Claim North Pole
Posted: 8/3/2007 9:38:54 AM
Does this mean Santa Claus is on the KGB payroll?
 Trewq36

Joined: 2/9/2005
Msg: 22
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Russians Claim North Pole
Posted: 8/3/2007 10:04:54 AM
How do you think he puts together his Naughty list?
 Thatguy67

Joined: 9/20/2006
Msg: 23
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Russians Claim North Pole
Posted: 8/3/2007 11:22:41 AM
I see then. So, on Xmas eve, he's not just delivering gifts to good little girls & boys but is on a reconnaisance mission for the Russkies.
 tmotts

Joined: 11/7/2006
Msg: 24
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Russians Claim North Pole
Posted: 8/3/2007 1:55:09 PM
Does that mean that Santa is going to be Russian? than that means he is gonna start messing up the orders! Haste makes waste!! I know I know that was so damn corny!
 Rockin R...

Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 25
Russians Claim North Pole
Posted: 8/3/2007 6:39:10 PM
maybe we should play a hockey game over it, lol
if we don't get our arses in gear we will for sure loose this Artic piece of land.
.In all seriousness we should counteract with a symbolic gesture by placing a flag there too and send a video to them saying to piss off and get off our land.
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