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 Author Thread: USA to unilaterally proclaim Kosovo's independence
 entatiki

Joined: 12/29/2004
Msg: 1
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USA to unilaterally proclaim Kosovo's independence
Posted: 9/8/2007 6:05:54 AM
As the sole remaining superpower in the world, the United States is establishing a unipolar world order. In that order, it attempts to decide the fate of peoples largely on its own authority, such as the systematic establishment of U.S. military bases around the world, guaranteeing its geostrategic options and strengthening its hegemonic position.
The military and political capability of imposing one's own will on others are an important source of instability in transnational and transcultural relations. It has also become a source of the feeling of impotence and of humiliation in particular for those people who feel themselves to be victims of this imbalance of power.
The USA's unilateral decision to recognise Kosovo's independence , no matter what the UN's resolution, European Union's, or the bilateral Serbian-Albanian talks will conclude within the next few months only stregthens Europes perception that the US is demanding total obedience to America, and seeking to stifle any criticism from Europe by means of blackmail, with statements such as "Europe needs America, but America does not need Europe".
 Politically INCORRECT

Joined: 8/14/2007
Msg: 2
USA to unilaterally proclaim Kosovo's independence
Posted: 9/8/2007 6:57:10 AM

The USA's unilateral decision to recognise Kosovo's independence , no matter what the UN's resolution, European Union's, or the bilateral Serbian-Albanian talks will conclude within the next few months only stregthens Europes perception that the US is demanding total obedience to America, and seeking to stifle any criticism from Europe by means of blackmail, with statements such as "Europe needs America, but America does not need Europe".

For some warped reason....that is just freaking hilarious.
Stupidity without limits it seems.
 Merc4aGoodCause

Joined: 2/10/2006
Msg: 3
USA to unilaterally proclaim Kosovo's independence
Posted: 9/8/2007 8:09:24 AM
"As the sole remaining superpower in the world, the United States is establishing a unipolar world order. In that order, it attempts to decide the fate of peoples largely on its own authority, such as the systematic establishment of U.S. military bases around the world, guaranteeing its geostrategic options and strengthening its hegemonic position.
The military and political capability of imposing one's own will on others are an important source of instability in transnational and transcultural relations. It has also become a source of the feeling of impotence and of humiliation in particular for those people who feel themselves to be victims of this imbalance of power.
The USA's unilateral decision to recognise Kosovo's independence , no matter what the UN's resolution, European Union's, or the bilateral Serbian-Albanian talks will conclude within the next few months only stregthens Europes perception that the US is demanding total obedience to America, and seeking to stifle any criticism from Europe by means of blackmail, with statements such as "Europe needs America, but America does not need Europe"."

What a smug statement complete with anti-american setiment. Kosovo my friend was a UN mission with a NATO mandate. It was EUROPEAN affair that America helped her allies in (because many of her allies do not allocate adequate money for military spending).

And the final solution is not an American dictated policy but rather a shared view. As it transfers to an EU mission it will only benifit European nations for Kosovo independance, as a good chunk of change will be saved fro moperations costs.
 entatiki

Joined: 12/29/2004
Msg: 4
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USA to unilaterally proclaim Kosovo's independence
Posted: 9/8/2007 8:50:15 AM
____________________________________________________________
And the final solution is not an American dictated policy but rather a shared view. As it transfers to an EU mission it will only benifit European nations for Kosovo independance, as a good chunk of change will be saved fro moperations costs.
___________________________________________________________

This is my whole point, it is NOT a shared view. The US goverment outspokenly states that NO MATTER WHAT the Europeans or the UN or the Albanian-Serbian talks decide, they will proclaim Kosovo independent. If this sound ludicrous to you, just wait and see. Because of this conviction alone the war might start all over again, and because of this conviction, dont be surprised if Serbia proclaims it its own again.
 spartacus428

Joined: 3/29/2006
Msg: 5
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USA to unilaterally proclaim Kosovo's independence
Posted: 9/8/2007 9:20:58 AM
You write as though the 'europeans' have a unanimous voice...they certainly don't. Many countries located in europe actually share the US opinion that Kosovo should be recognized.
Conditional, supervised independence for Kosovo was actually recommended by the UN mediator. The US is only acting because, as is typical, the european governments refuse to take a stand on serious issues. These talks have been dragging on for years and they end in 3 months. If there is no resolution of any kind, the situation will only deteriorate again. Isn't it time for something to happen?

And before you critisize me for being ignorant of balkan politics, I've been to Romania/Bulgaria/Macedonia/Greece more times then I can count. There will be no resolution between Albania and Serbia without outside interference.
 namegame2

Joined: 4/17/2007
Msg: 6
USA to unilaterally proclaim Kosovo's independence
Posted: 9/8/2007 9:24:23 AM

This is my whole point, it is NOT a shared view. The US goverment outspokenly states that NO MATTER WHAT the Europeans or the UN or the Albanian-Serbian talks decide, they will proclaim Kosovo independent.


I'd like to see you put your money where your mouth is and show me where the US government has said that.
 disaronno amaretto

Joined: 8/1/2007
Msg: 7
USA to unilaterally proclaim Kosovo's independence
Posted: 9/8/2007 9:37:13 AM

As the sole remaining superpower in the world, the United States is establishing a unipolar world order
Superpower? ~I just got a visual of Bush doin' a Texan 2-step in a superman costume! Priceless, man, thanks.
 Wolfie65

Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 8
USA to unilaterally proclaim Kosovo's independence
Posted: 9/8/2007 9:53:06 AM
One wonders if the people of Kosovo know or care about this......
You didn't by any chance read this at the supermarket checkout, did you.....?
 spartacus428

Joined: 3/29/2006
Msg: 9
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USA to unilaterally proclaim Kosovo's independence
Posted: 9/8/2007 6:00:22 PM
I disagree with the OP's sentiments and he is incorrect that the USA government has stated an intention. However, there is some genuine discussion from within the US state department about unilaterally recognizing Kosovo.

"U.S. Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns said Monday that the U.S. considers independence the only option for the Serbian province, which has been a U.N. protectorate since 1999.

He has suggested that the U.S. may recognize Kosovo's split from Serbia, even if Russia carries out its threat to veto a U.N. plan proposing internationally supervised independence for the province, where separatist ethnic Albanians comprise an overwhelming majority."

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/04/17/europe/EU-GEN-Serbia-US-Kosovo.php

Its old news (04/07), but still causing an uproar in the Balkans.
 RockGnome

Joined: 6/29/2007
Msg: 10
USA to unilaterally proclaim Kosovo's independence
Posted: 9/8/2007 9:24:48 PM

sole remaining superpower

Yeah, remind me to send thank you notes
to the U.K. and France for being the first
two countries to unilaterally
recognize Texas as an independent Nation/State,
without asking how the rest of the world felt about
it at the time.

Have a Midol and relax.
 entatiki

Joined: 12/29/2004
Msg: 11
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USA to unilaterally proclaim Kosovo's independence
Posted: 9/9/2007 1:27:48 AM
________________________________________________________
I'd like to see you put your money where your mouth is and show me where the US government has said that.
_________________________________________________________

OK namegame2, Ive got the money, enjoy:


The Bush administration has made clear that the new negotiations will be limited to 120 days and that regardless of their result the United States will seek recognition of an independent Kosovo.

_Washingtonpost.com, Jult 28, 2007_

Kostunica's comments came after Bush said: "At some point in time -- sooner rather than later -- you've got to say 'Enough is enough. Kosovo is independent' and that's the position we've taken."

_cnn.com, June 11, 2007_

U.S. President George W. Bush said Sunday there's no need for "endless dialogue" on the future status of the breakaway Serbian province of Kosovo, saying "the time is now" to move toward independence.

_cbcnews, June 10,2007_

The statement George Bush gave in Tirana... has complicated the Kosovo knot which was already tangled enough. By granting independence, everything is aimed at satisfying the Albanians' appetite for an imposed solution, and calming Serbia down with unclear promises about a speedier European association.

_bbcnews, june11, 2007_



George Bush declared yesterday that he had made up his mind that Kosovo should be an independent country.If the deadlock continues, western analysts say, Washington could encourage Kosovo to declare independence, afford it diplomatic recognition, and encourage others to follow. That would divide Europe and be very messy, possibly violent.
"Sooner rather than later you've got to say Kosovo's independent," Mr Bush announced at a press conference in Tirana, the Albanian capital.

_the guardian, June 11, 2007_


During a press conference with Sali Berisha, the Albanian prime minister, Bush said: "Sooner rather than later, you've got to say, Kosovo is independent."

_Al Jazeera, June 10, 2007+_


U.S. will recognize independent Kosovo
_http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics_
Posted on 09/08/2007 1227 PM PDT by kronos77


WASHINGTON, BELGRADE, PRIŠTINA -- The United States are ready to recognize Kosovo's independence even without a UN deal, a State Department official says. He then went on to say that, "if Kosovo unilaterally declares independence, the United States will recognize that independence.
"President Bush not only confirmed once more his strong support for independence, but in a sense he declared independence," Ceku told a special news conference

_Posted on 09/08/2007 1227 PM PDT by kronos77"_

President Bush not only confirmed once more his strong support for independence, but in a sense he declared independence," Ceku told a special news conference. Bush was hailed by Albanian Prime Minister Sali Berisha as "the greatest and most distinguished guest we have ever had". Bush dived into a throng of waiting Albanian fans to enjoy an ecstatic rock-star reception.

_Reuters News. June 11 2007


The head of Kosovo's opposition Democratic Party of Kosovo, Hashi Thaci, called on the United Nations to heed Bush's words and approve a resolution on Kosovo's independence "as soon as possible."
Kostunica, Serbias Prime Minister said "America must find another way to show its affection and love for the Albanians, without offering them Serb territories."

_Radio Free Europe, june 11 2007_
 namegame2

Joined: 4/17/2007
Msg: 12
USA to unilaterally proclaim Kosovo's independence
Posted: 9/9/2007 7:33:26 AM
You should post links. I had to spend 20 minutes to identify each story you referenced, with the result that I can't be bothered to check the last bunch which look like blog posts anyway.

Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/27/AR2007072701947.html

This is not reporting, but is an editorial opinion piece. Here is an excerpt:


Russia's public position is that it will oppose any solution for Kosovo that is not accepted by Serbia. This cynical stance has the aim of locking Serbia's leaders into their intransigence, isolating the Balkan country from the European Union -- which has offered it the prospect of membership -- and making the former heart of Communist Yugoslavia dependent on Moscow.
:
To its credit, the Bush administration has refused to be cowed by the Russian tactics. Instead, officials have made clear that the new negotiations will be limited to 120 days and that regardless of their result the United States will seek recognition of an independent Kosovo. This will require not suasion over Mr. Putin but careful diplomacy with European governments, which must be persuaded to recognize Kosovo without a U.N. resolution. Britain, France and probably Germany can be counted on; the harder work lies with such nations as Cyprus, Greece, Spain, Romania and Slovakia, some of which worry about possible separatist claims in their own countries.


Sounds like diplomacy, not unilateral rejection of our allies.

The cnn.com quotes are actually from June 10.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/06/10/bush.europe/index.html


TIRANA, Albania (CNN) -- Setting up possibly another showdown with Russia, U.S. President George W. Bush has said "the time is now" to grant independence to the Serbian province of Kosovo and called on Moscow not to slow down the process.

"I happen to believe it's important to push the process along," Bush said Sunday at a joint news conference with Albanian Prime Minister Sali Berisha.

"The question is whether or not there's going to be endless dialogue on a subject that we have made up our mind about. We believe Kosovo ought to be independent." [The Albanian PM is also a strong supporter of independence.]
:
Bush said the G8 supported Kosovo's independence, but "discussions were all aimed at determining if there is a way to make this acceptable to Russia."

"Obviously they're not there yet ... I'm worried about expectations not being met in Kosovo and therefore we'll push the process."

A vote on Kosovo's independence is before the United Nations Security Council, on which Russia holds a veto-wielding seat.

Bush said Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice would pursue the issue through diplomacy with Moscow along with America's European allies.

But the diplomacy surrounding the issue seemed a bit fuzzy when Bush was asked about his call for a deadline on U.N. action on Kosovo.

"First of all, I don't think I called for a deadline, I thought I said (timetable)," Bush said.

Responding to the reporter, who could not be heard, Bush responded, "I did, what exactly did I say? I said deadline? OK ... Then I meant what I said."


Sounds like Bush being convoluted Bush, and uncharacteristicly committed to diplomacy at that.

The cbc piece I could not identify, but I'm guessing it is a rehash of the above remarks.

I cannot find the bbc piece either, but your excerpt sounds like an editorial about the consequences of taking that action. So what?

The Guardian reference is confusing, as the article I found on that day paints quite a different picture. Perhaps you were quoting a letter-to-the-editor?
www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2099981,00.html


Many Albanians had been hoping for Mr Bush to give a boost to the Kosovan push for independence. Settlement terms drawn up by the special UN envoy, Martti Ahtisaari, have been with the security council since March following more than a year of fruitless negotiations between the Serbian government and the Kosovan Albanian leadership.

Western leaders are keen to resolve the crisis but cannot agree a formula with Moscow, which backs Serbia's argument that Kosovan independence would strip it of 15% of its territory and flout international law, as well as creating a dangerous precedent for secessionists worldwide.

The west argues that Kosovan independence offers the sole prospect of stability and progress in the Balkans and that the establishment of the new state is merely the last act in the protracted drama of the disintegration of Yugoslavia.

"Sooner rather than later you've got to say enough's enough. Kosovo's independent," Mr Bush announced at a press conference in Tirana, the Albanian capital.

But his pressure for a quick decision was countered at the weekend by Mr Putin, who emphasised that there was no change in Moscow's pro-Serbian position.

Western officials are exasperated by the Russian refusal to countenance independence and are worried that the fragile peace in the UN-administered province could collapse, with Albanians going on the rampage and enacting anti-Serbian pogroms if the status issue remains unresolved.


Based on how hard you made it to track this down and the information so far, I won't post the rest. Bush supports independence - fine. So do most countries in Western Europe, and that's the gist of the UN resolution. But everybody wants this problem to go away, and be resolved diplomatically.

Nothing you've cited supports that the US has said it will, as you put it,

recognise Kosovo's independence , no matter what the UN's resolution, European Union's, or the bilateral Serbian-Albanian talks will conclude within the next few months
 entatiki

Joined: 12/29/2004
Msg: 13
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USA to unilaterally proclaim Kosovo's independence
Posted: 9/9/2007 10:51:50 AM
____________________________________________________
Nothing you've cited supports that the US has said it will, as you put it,
____________________________________________________

I think it is clear that the province's future lies in the hands of the United Nations, not the United States.
If you agree with this statement, then you agree with all the UN's resolutions. The Security Council has this purpose, to vote and agree on resolutions and pave the way for their implementations.
Having said and agreed upon this, it is unwise and frivolous for a president, of any counrty, to determine the result before it is agreed upon. If Russia vetoes , the United States should abide, in accordance to the UN's charter. If Russia vetoes, Mr. Bush can say that he wished the Security Coucil voted otherwise, but stop considering Kosovo's independence undisputed. Either your part of the World Organization or your not and go by the rules. Once this is settled, the only other way for a country to become independent is to fight for it, go to war. If that's what Kosovians want, they'll certainly find resistance from the Serbs.


Statements from Bush such as "Kosovo will get independence - Hence, deadline", only inflame the situation before a resolution has come out of the UN process. He should be neutral until then.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mx513g5EDkw
or search it as :Kosovo will get independence - "Hence, deadline", Bush said.
 namegame2

Joined: 4/17/2007
Msg: 14
USA to unilaterally proclaim Kosovo's independence
Posted: 9/12/2007 3:32:20 PM

Having said and agreed upon this, it is unwise and frivolous for a president, of any counrty, to determine the result before it is agreed upon. If Russia vetoes , the United States should abide, in accordance to the UN's charter. If Russia vetoes, Mr. Bush can say that he wished the Security Coucil voted otherwise, but stop considering Kosovo's independence undisputed.


You seem to be suggesting that there is no room for diplomacy in our world. No discussions, no coalitions, no pressuring, just take it to the UN for an up or down vote, and live with the results.

Would you be happy if the US vetoed *everything* it didn't like and rejected any attempts at discussion? That's where your philosophy leads - a world in which nothing happens that is not 100% supported by China, Russia, USA, etc.
 entatiki

Joined: 12/29/2004
Msg: 15
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USA to unilaterally proclaim Kosovo's independence
Posted: 9/20/2007 12:37:01 PM
___________________________________________________________
Would you be happy if the US vetoed *everything* it didn't like and rejected any attempts at discussion? That's where your philosophy leads - a world in which nothing happens that is not 100% supported by China, Russia, USA, etc.
____________________________________________________________

If you are in agreement with this statement, then you must condemn Bush for setting a "deadline" for Kosovo's independence.
 lovelyblonde

Joined: 10/11/2006
Msg: 16
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USA to unilaterally proclaim Kosovo's independence
Posted: 10/5/2007 5:46:20 AM
USA can proclaim what they like the serbs are not going to give away the oldest and most precious part of Serbia (Kosovo) its just a shame that Nato Un and the ''superpowers'' dont read history books.. Making Kosovo independant would increase drug crime as everyone knows the Albanians are only capable of living by Drugs/prostitution. Un peacekeepers should let the serbian army back in, the ilegal Albanians in kosovo that have come over illegally from Albania should all be sent back. And Serbian homes and Churches should all be restored, This solution is realistic and the right thing to do. By reading some of your comments its obvious that the majority of you are falling for media propaganda..
 entatiki

Joined: 12/29/2004
Msg: 17
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USA to unilaterally proclaim Kosovo's independence
Posted: 10/10/2007 8:25:03 AM
The latest update on the situation is that the US insists that Kosovo will become independent despite the December deadline's conclusion. Thus in this way the US is obstructing the Kosovo talks between Belgrade and the secession-seeking Kosovo Albanians. So what's the point of the negotiations when the outcome is already known?Those are destructive activities aimed against a possible negotiated solution for Kosovo.
Kosovo's Prime Minister Prime Minister Agim Ceku said independence was inevitable and that the province will declare it soon after the deadline, even if no agreement was reached and regardless of whether the European Union backed the move.

The Associated Press : October 10, 2007

I'd really like to know how the US would react if Native Americans decided unilaterally to declare Oklahoma's (or any other state's) independence. And dont nobody tell me its not the same thing because it is. Ethnic cleansing in both cases. The only difference is that in Kosovo's case the Serbs where there first and the Albanians encroached into the territory. In America's case, the Indians where there first and the Americans encroached into their territory.
 Merc4aGoodCause

Joined: 2/10/2006
Msg: 18
USA to unilaterally proclaim Kosovo's independence
Posted: 10/10/2007 8:47:02 AM
^^ I take it your serbian, or at least serb-sympathizer. Kosovo is simply the last unresoved status of a failed state formerly known as Yugoslavia. The United States and most of europe want to simply see this resolved. Its costing money. This happened in 1999, the peacekeeping portion successful in minimizing the violence, and all are looking for the next step forward.
 jrbogie

Joined: 8/31/2007
Msg: 19
USA to unilaterally proclaim Kosovo's independence
Posted: 10/10/2007 10:42:38 AM
As the sole remaining superpower in the world, the United States is establishing a unipolar world order. In that order, it attempts to decide the fate of peoples largely on its own authority, such as the systematic establishment of U.S. military bases around the world, guaranteeing its geostrategic options and strengthening its hegemonic position.



Hmmmmm. Or not.
 entatiki

Joined: 12/29/2004
Msg: 20
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USA to unilaterally proclaim Kosovo's independence
Posted: 10/10/2007 11:07:22 AM
_________________________________________________
The United States and most of europe want to simply see this resolved
_____________________________________________________

Granted. Everybody would like to see it resolved. But KOSOVO IS PART OF SERBIA. Just as say, Texas is part of the USA with many Mexicans living within it's confines.

Granting Kosovo independence would be like granting Catalonia or Basque territory independence from Spain, or Kurdistan independence from Turkey, or the Magyars from Slovakia.

Four countries in Europe have 30% or more of their population minorities (Latvia, Moldova, Estonia, Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia)

Russia has 45 groups, Ukraine has 23 groups, Romania has 19 groups.

Russians are a minority in 9 european countries and 7 Asian countries.

The number of peoples in Europe is surprisingly high: 87. Some of these peoples count less than 10.000 members as the Tsachurians, the Karaime, the Kernians and the Livs, the smallest group living in the Baltic states.

According to results in 2003 the number of persons belonging to a national or ethnic minority in Europe accounts to 86,674 millions (11,45% of the population) divided on 329 national or ethnic groups. In other terms: every tenth European citizen is directly concerned by the minority issue. Due to the quantitative dimension of the phenomenon this issue is one of the most important political questions in Europe at all. Even Portugal and Ireland, which someone retained to be "minority-less", are hosting minorities.

Granting Kosovo independence will open a Pandora's box for all minorities to proclaim their own independence.
 Merc4aGoodCause

Joined: 2/10/2006
Msg: 21
USA to unilaterally proclaim Kosovo's independence
Posted: 10/10/2007 7:16:23 PM
"Just as say, Texas is part of the USA with many Mexicans living within it's confines"

Yeah but we havnt gone into texas by my recollection commiting genocide.
 entatiki

Joined: 12/29/2004
Msg: 22
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USA to unilaterally proclaim Kosovo's independence
Posted: 10/11/2007 2:18:02 AM
____________________________________________________
Yeah but we havnt gone into texas by my recollection commiting genocide.
______________________________________________________


You are off subject for this thread. We are talking about granting Kosovo's independence

Nobody accused the USA of commiting genocide to Mexicans. Although it would be easy to accuse the US goverment of an Indian genocide.

But since you brought it up, the Texas Declaration of Independence was the formal declaration of independence of the Republic of Texas from Mexico in the Texas Revolution. It was adopted at the Convention of 1836 at Washington-on-the-Brazos on March 2, 1836, and formally signed the following day.

It is interesting to me that after giving you all the information I did (Msg # 20) your only comment is that of Texas. Does your government's support for the succession of Kosovo from Serbia touch some sentimental American patriotic cord that relates it to Texas's succession from Mexico? I think not. Have you nothing to say of my comment on the opening of Pandora's box? What if 329 minorities in Europe all self proclaim themselves independent? Would the US goverment, or you support that?
 Merc4aGoodCause

Joined: 2/10/2006
Msg: 23
USA to unilaterally proclaim Kosovo's independence
Posted: 10/11/2007 4:21:44 PM
I didnt adress it simply didnt warrant a response. And you can save your history lessons for someone else- Im a bit up on you with that one. The pandora box argument is overused. Fact is, Serbia f' ' ed big time with the genocide. The Kosovars want out and they have quite a bit of support behind them.
 entatiki

Joined: 12/29/2004
Msg: 24
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USA to unilaterally proclaim Kosovo's independence
Posted: 10/12/2007 3:11:38 AM
_______________________________________________________
I didnt adress it simply didnt warrant a response
________________________________________________________

Avoiding a response to a direct question is your right, but it either means you dont know the answer, you know the answer but want to avoid it, or even still you just dont care.

My question to you is direct and I would appreciate a straight answer for the sake of discussion and not an evasive statement.

Would you be in favor of the independence of 329 minorities in Europe? If you do not want to be implicit ,a simple yes, no or I dont care would do.

And since I sense a bit of sensitivity on the genocide issue, another related question would be: Would you favor an independent Indian territory in the US because of the genocide the US goverment procured on the native Americans? Yes? No? I dont care?
 Merc4aGoodCause

Joined: 2/10/2006
Msg: 25
USA to unilaterally proclaim Kosovo's independence
Posted: 10/12/2007 11:44:06 PM
"Would you be in favor of the independence of 329 minorities in Europe? If you do not want to be implicit ,a simple yes, no or I dont care would do."

If their native country sought to exterminate that particular race- absolutely. They were citizens of that country.

I remember quite vividly passing the destruction alomst on a daily basis. A local school we worked with on some projects had several of its teachers and staff killed. Not to mention the large number of orphans left by Milosovic's paramilitary force that swept into the once quite villages with sheer brutality.
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