| Why are christians so against catholics? [Thread Closed/Bashing-Exclusivity of Truth]
Posted: 5/12/2005 12:29:59 PM | | I just don't understand this because one religion sprung from the other and it just doesn't make any sense to me. Its like a snake eating its own tail. I just think its kind of defeating the purpose because most catholics I know don't gripe about christians yet they still gripe about catholics. I once worked with a christian chick and she would always be down on the catholic religion, she would say for instance if she had to get on her knees to wind down the spinning machines that man I hate this it makes me feel like those damn catholics getting down on my knees all the time. I really couldn't care but after hearing this from her for every day for about a month straight I finally told her to shut her trap because I really don't want to hear it when she asked why I told her: I may not be a practicing catholic but that doesn't give you the right to preech your dislike of catholics to me because I was indeed baptised roman-catholic even though I don't give a flying f*** about the religion. I have been in many situations like this. I always wondered why they feel its alright to put it down. I can't count on both hands and feet how many christians I have known in the work place or school or where-ever that preech their religion in the work-place or school or where-ever when it is in fact not legal for them to do so. How is it that they can get away with being like that? By playing the freedom of speech card yet they get so mad when you speak freely on your own believes and they get more surly when you refuse to accept their believes as your own. I just find it queer when in reality they are similar religions. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/12/2005 12:43:36 PM | | It has to do with the reformation... Catholicism is pretty well Paganism converted, this doesn't sit well with the weak minded for some reason. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/12/2005 5:16:55 PM | I think because it doesn’t follow scripture.. It deviates off what is written in the bible.
I think peoples biggest hang ups with it are.
Mary worship…I know all sides of this issue.. Not looking for a fight.
Kissing the popes hand.. Jesus washed feet of his followers and served.
Calling the pope the holy father_ he is a man like all the rest of us.. there is only one holy father.. that is GOD.
Praying to saints..
Please don’t flame me..
I have no hate in my heart for the catholic brothers and sisters. And have many friends of this faith. I just don’t agree with all there doctrine. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/13/2005 6:41:18 AM | | I just get completely floored...to me everything to do with "bibles" I have have read are similar not saying that I know them cover to cover but wow. It is true they are roots of the same tree man like languages that sprung from one dilect. It began in rome (rome being the worlds largest user of the crucifix after battle) the romans did a kind of genicide with all of the nations it took over from gaul to germania, jeruselem and after expanding so far that it could go no further christianity moved in as another means of war being pretty much if you don't join us you will die, crucifixion was a form of punishment used on those whom did not convert after christianity moved in. That means of punishment was used on pagans and what they called witches whom now are called catholics. If you went back in time and stopped in a place like oh say scottland or england and spoke to a native of that time and place and told them that you believed in one god they would most likely look at you strangely and in fear because you would be what they called christians and to them that meant death. Thats what I mean when I say they are for all reasons very similar and especially with people who have no grasp of what it "was" and what it is today it used to all be the same thing when it was un-known and humanity added its strife and corruption and made it worse with time. I don't understand how so many religions (catholic and christain most of all) can worship the same god and still have extream disagreements about it. Its like religeous people can't find common ground with us who don't believe or eachother anymore because someone will always dissagree, hence why religion is a main cause of war in the world. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/13/2005 6:52:16 AM | | Every catholic I have ever known doesn't pray to the saints they have a kind of respect for them and they honour their memories and there is a huge difference between respecting something and worshiping something. For example my boyfriend worships tim hortons coffee and will drink no other and I respect that. Very simple example but I am sure you understand what I mean by it. I don't believe in either religion but cannot for the life of me figure out why it is exactly that there are so many arguements between them, they are indeed sister-religions so why quarrel about it? I think they should eat some special brownies and all get along...but doubt they would unless you didn't tell them how special the brownies were...LOL. Oh no I am having a mental pic of what it would be like to see my mans 86 year old grandmother eating a special brownie and the after-math...I am not sure who would be more confused..lol she is very strict practicing catholic, cool lady. | |
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craww
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Joined: 2/16/2005
Msg: 6 | |
| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/13/2005 7:33:39 AM | cleo,
i'll be happy to eat some ''special brownies'' with you and a bunch of catholics.
i'll get the fire going in the back yard, and get the chicken ready.
music?......... ok,....... dancing?......sure.......... what would you like to drink? | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/13/2005 8:05:25 AM | Cool beans man sure....one cool thing about the catholic church is they are for medicinal use...even if they don't fully condone it that rocks I mean that in general with the catholics I know I have seen it quite alot they would rather see someone in the mild stupour that special brownies give than to see someone who's so drunk they can't even speak..(I am very guilty of many alcoholic hazes...lol..) its just how they see it. I would like a huge glass of brisk ice tea to rid myself of the pasties the special browinies are giving me cause my tounge is sticking to the top of my mouth | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/13/2005 12:33:55 PM | | Christian aren't completely against Catholics, but Christians don't like how the catholics pray to saints. We are suppose to only pray to Jesus. | |
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MARKVF
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Joined: 3/12/2005
Msg: 12 | |
| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/13/2005 1:29:12 PM | | I have been reading these posts with great interest. Unfortunately there is such a huge mis-understanding of Catholicism. Perhaps therein lies the answer to the initial question. I was raised in a fundamentalist United Methodist Church and converted to Catholicism at age 42 after deep soul searching and yes scripture study. Many people know only what non-Catholics tell them about the Church which is typically a twisted version of our belief. First point: Catholic means "universal" so in that sense all of Christ's Church is "catholic". Secondly as to the Roman Catholic Church, its roots trace to Jesus giving the "keys to the kingdom" to Peter and Peter eventually travelling to Rome. In other words, (Roman) Catholics ARE Christians. All other denominations evolved from, spun off of, or split from the Church beginning with the Orthodox Church, the Anglican Church, and after the Reformation all the varied Protestant Churches. The agreement between all is probably at least 85%, but we choose to focus on the 15% differences. To answer the "pray to saints" post, it is best described like this: If a "Christian" says to a fellow member, "My back hurts, can you pray for me?" that's OK. The Catolic Church in the "Communion of Saints" believes that if people on earth can intercede with Christ for our help, then how much more a holy person who has gone before us to heaven. We "pray" to the saints asking for their petitions to Christ on our behalf along with our own prayers. "Hey Bill, pray for me" is ok, but "Holy Mary....pray for us sinners" is not? | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/13/2005 3:56:21 PM | I'm going to pick on semantics here, because it bugs me when people do this.
Catholics ARE Christians. You're referring to the argument between Catholics and Protestants. Any religion that holds Christ as it's savior is a Christian religion. | |
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MARKVF
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Joined: 3/12/2005
Msg: 16 | |
| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/14/2005 2:21:13 AM | | That is exactly correct. And that is where the large area of agreement comes in. Everything else is peripheral to the central point of Christ as Savior. And there lies the trouble. Too many people and organizations give lip service to Christ as Savior and then set out to discredit any other group that is even slightly different. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/14/2005 5:45:43 AM | You know why I like Catholics better than Non-Catholic Christians?
Because Catholics don't ramble on and on and on in "Bible Speak"
when they talk about their religion to "outsiders". Actually makes me
concider listening instead of blowing them off as Religious Nuts....
If only Catholics would get into the 21st Century and
start supporting birth control usage... ;) | |
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MARKVF
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Joined: 3/12/2005
Msg: 18 | |
| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/14/2005 7:54:15 AM | | Good Point. Thats just because we hold to Sacred Tradition, the Teaching Authority of the Church, and Sacred Scripture (Bible) as the foundation of our faith. Most other "Bible Christians" believe "Sola Scriptura" or "Bible Only" which limits what they can say! | |
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craww
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Joined: 2/16/2005
Msg: 19 | |
| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/15/2005 12:35:22 PM | pointy, .... you just don't look the same without your glasses.
markvf, ....... it's funny, peter didn't know a thing about dressing up in a fancy costume and pretending to be special.
so, peter was the ''rock?" and he only was given the keys?...... oh brother
you must have missed the contex of matt 16;13.
by the way, i'm not against catholics........ they are pretty free to do what ever they feel like doing, in most of their churches.....(as long as the priests get to play with the little boys genitals) | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/15/2005 4:15:00 PM | You know, I host a Christian forum because of exactly the same reasons the OP states. These people wanted a place to go where ALL religions could be discussed without being slammed. So Cleo, there are some that agree with you.
I'm not a 'Catholic', as in Roman Catholic. I'm not a member of the church. My profile says 'Catholic', because 'Catholic' means 'Universal'. So I'm a 'Universal Christian'. I've studied religions, mostly Christian variations, and after all that the only one that comes close to the original IMO is what is commonly known as 'Roman Catholic' (although there are variations of 'Catholic' as well). They are the only ones of the bunch that have even remotely preserved what the original Hebrew/Latin texts contained. Not to knock 'Baptists' or anyone else, because I know a few of those that have the right ideas, but I would suggest that anyone that thinks the Catholic doctrine (note: this is in regards to official doctrine, NOT individual interpretations) is about praying to statues and stuff to go and read the original documents. You will be quite surprised.
The Bible, the KJV was rewritten under order of politicians (royalty) and every other version out there has been rewritten with their own slant. Even the Catholics had, over the centuries and translations to English and other languages, have lost some of the original concept. The RC's held the Vatican II Council in 1963, and blew away a lot of the trappings that had developed over 1800 years or so. Instead of the usual practice of editing the 'latest' version of the bible, they went back to the original documents. Ask yourself (everyone) if you are aware, for example, that priests can be married? Some of the Disciples were. Did you know that the Pope receives respect from people, and in no way thinks he's 'God'? That respect and title is because he has given his life in SERVICE TO the people of the world (not just the catholics) and not the other way around (contrary to popular opinion).
Unfortunately, there are still a lot of diehard 'Catholics' that resent and even defy the Vatican II Council orders. A big part of that Council was allowing the people the FREEDOM to implement the changes as they felt they were guided to do. Some parishes have adopted them all, others have adopted a few.
Were you also aware that the leaders of the High Anglican Church (aka the Church of England, created to allow divorce, and the spring from which Baptists, Presb's, etc all originate from) have accepted and appointed the Pope as their official 'Spiritual Leader'?
shannanigan, you said "If only Catholics would get into the 21st Century and
start supporting birth control usage... ;)"
FYI, they do. Look here for recent (say last 10 years) articles about it, right from the horse's mouth, so to speak: http://vatican.mondosearch.com/search_en.aspx?query=birth+control
There's a lot of science there, and you will also note that a lot of the more recent negative press about the Catholic stance on birth control is directly related to the Church opposing making mandatory birth control a condition of UN foreign aid policies. The Vatican repeatedly asked that condition be changed to be mandatory EDUCATION, rather than mandatory birth control. When that was refused, the church pulled their funding.
I do agree with you about 'Bible Speak.' If they can't speak in plain language I have to ask, what are they hiding? IMO, the whole thing boils down to: 'Be nice, be good to each other, Live Long and Prosper.' :) | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/15/2005 4:35:27 PM | shannanigan, you said "If only Catholics would get into the 21st Century and
start supporting birth control usage... ;)"
I know many Catholics do support and use BC, if they didn't my father's side of
the family at Christmas would be unable to be housed in anything smaller than a
gymnasium! That comment was simply an attempt at sarcastic humor. Hence the ;)
I should have said "The Vatican"... I have yet to see them officially support thier followers
choice to use non Rhythm-method forms of birth control. Last I checked the Vatican's
stance on artificial BC is that its wrong. So I asked my Aunt who is very Catholic about
this, and she is very much against artifical forms of BC (including condoms!) because
thats what the Pope says. And even though I'm a heathen sinner, she still loves me.
(Yes, we can disagree and still tease each other lovingly. haha)
If you have a link to some articles in particular that prove my knowledge of the
subject (and my Aunt's beliefs) incorrect please post them. I would be very interested
in reading them. The link above was rather confusing. (Or maybe I'm just slow tonight... LOL!) | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/15/2005 5:05:38 PM | Cleo, thanks for opening this discussion. I am a Protestant Christian. And I can tell you that I have absolutely nothing against Catholics. In fact I have several Catholic friends who mean the world to me, even if we do not agree on many things. The simple fact is that there are lots of Christians (people who follow Jesus as their Lord) within both Catholic churches and Protestant churches. There are also unfortunately a lot of people who attend both (and a lot of other religious institutions) who claim to be Christians, but are not. True, we’re all only human, and make mistakes. But when you see someone who continuously bashes others or puts them down, I would seriously question their true faith. A true Christian should be an example of the faith, expressing peace, love, kindness, understanding, etc. etc. If you see someone who claims to be a Christian, but behaves like an idiot, don't be afraid to call them on it!
As we all explore and seek the meaning of life, there must be room for discussion and even disagreement. Otherwise there is no room for growth and learning. The key is to address these differences with respect and maturity. I hope that you do have the chance to meet some truly devoted Christians so that you can see we’re not all just a bunch of infighting, delusional freaks. And I’m very sorry that you have had such bad experiences so far. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/15/2005 9:03:28 PM | Shan, that was a rather confusing links page, yes, but it was about the closest I could narrow it down. If you read through those, especially the latest (use the 'show highlights' links with each article listed), you can see that it appears you're both right. :)
Basically, it says that the RC disagrees with 'non-natural' BC due to several reasons, including scientific research that is pointing to the repeated use of condoms, creams, etc, as causing all sorts of problems including infertility, complete sterelization, cancers, etc. This is all based on scientific fact.
Here's one example of an article discussing this: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/family/documents/rc_pc_family_doc_20031201_family-values-safe-sex-trujillo_en.html
The base reason is that the scripture says it's wrong to prevent procreation, and this is what the 'official statement' is that everyone usually talks about. This is usually what is talked about in regards to 'the Church is against BC'. This goes back to the Pope's speech in 1968: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html
When you read through this one, there's a lot of logic and reasoning in there that makes sense too.
However, there is great contention within the Vatican as to what 'non-natural' means. The 'official' (and somewhat vague) answer is in this document: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/family/documents/rc_pc_family_doc_20001014_rome-jubilee-of-families-index_en.html
There's a lot more, but unfortunately I'm out of time at the moment. Hope that helps a bit, there's really no quick answer. Some parishes/priests/cardinals suggest that 'natural' should include 'natural' BC products as well, and others say not a chance. They've left (and I think possibly deliberately) a very open interpretation, and IMO that's because the scripture doesn't specifically state either way (other than that you should be married to have sex). Sorry if the last bit doesn't sound clear, I'm really rushing here. :) | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/15/2005 11:37:14 PM | People are going to do and feel what they want. Its a waist of time trying to find out why when there is more than just one reason! The only thing you can do is let them know if they are offending you and tell them you would appreciate if they kept there beliefs to themselves if they are nagging you with them. All you can do is live the best way you feel, and not everyone will agree i disagree with alot of things but it is a waist of time to try to decode this way of being. And it will be like this untill the end of time. I guess you and i should follow our heart and just go with the flow! No matter what kind of religion you are God is still The Lord and if you do not belive that is what you have chosen and people should just let people be. Wether you belive or donot, Reguardless if you are christian, catholic, atheist and so on. I also belive a person should do research on the subject before they go and start conjouring up all kind of riddles and singling out a particular religion or beliefe. I guess i would be labled as a christian but i donot call myself that i prefer follower of christ. I dont belive that any of the lables of christian, prodastant, catholic definds what a relationship with the Lord should be. If you belive in the Lord and choose to follow his word i belive you are a follower of Christ and you dont have to have some fancy name over your head to worship the Lord the way you been taught or you feel is best. Next time you open a forum you should not single out christians, because not one person tninks or belives exacatly the same you should aks why some or most the people you have come in contact or heard or observed have a grudge or negative opinion about a certain beliefe and or religion. Everyone has a opinion about something but if it bothers you so much why continue the conflict out even more by asking a question that has no one answer, and single out one religion and all the people that honor that religion. Again people believe what they want, and that is just the way it is. Just as you are so against God and call him a murderer and that is your opinion and your beliefe. People have differant opinions on anything and everything they choose! And it is not just christians, It is just human nature.  | |
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