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| Che Guevara/Cuban Revolution
Posted: 10/2/2007 12:47:37 AM | I would like someone to reply to this and tell me if they think that Cuba is better or worse off after Batista got overthrown?
I recently watched a dvd called "Fidel & Che" and I was inspired by it. I thought it was good after the Yankees got kicked out, however, I was dissapointed to see that Che was responsible for a lot of executions and that Huber Matos got arrested and thrown into jail for 20yrs for resigning from Castros government.
Is there any such thing as communism that doesn't have all the bad stuff but good stuff??
Secondly, why does Castro allow the US to have a prison in Guantanamo Bay. I think Castro should bomb them and get rid of them because I think that the US have no right to be there in the first place. | |
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| Che Guevara/Cuban Revolution
Posted: 10/2/2007 12:59:09 AM | Both are dictators, both subverted the democratic process. One did his best to make American corporate interests and himself rich, the other has instituted social programs that have benefited the general populace whatever his crimes.
It's really hard to make a real comparison. Castro's Cuba has been under embargo for almost a half a century, and have gone to the point of enforcing their embargo on foreign companies operating in Cuba.
It's a muddy issue. | |
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| Che Guevara/Cuban Revolution
Posted: 10/2/2007 2:56:24 AM |
Secondly, why does Castro allow the US to have a prison in Guantanamo Bay. I think Castro should bomb them and get rid of them because I think that the US have no right to be there in the first place.
The U.S. has leased Guantanamo Bay Naval Base since 1903 and then modified in 1934, as a result of the Spanish-American War.
The lease is in perpetuity until both sides agree to cancel the lease or the U.S. abandons the base. The yearly payment is approx $4000. Castro cashed the initial check he received after coming to power, but hasn't cashed any since.
It's hard to say who Cuba would've been better off with. Batista was corrupt, the Mob pretty much ran Havana. He catered to US corporate interests. Then Castro came to power, he's corrupt, his mob runs Havana, and he catered to Russian interests, till the Russians packed up their security blanket and left.
Communism is a failed idealogy, just ask North Korea and Cuba. The only way they survive is through economic aid and subsidies from other countries, primarily Venezuela in Cuba's case and China and South Korea in North Korea's case.
China didn't start gaining power economically, until they started moving toward free enterprise and away from Communism and centralized management. | |
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| Che Guevara/Cuban Revolution
Posted: 10/2/2007 3:11:58 AM | | I'm not a communist by any means, but on several key indicators cubans do better than other south american and caribean countries. | |
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| Che Guevara/Cuban Revolution
Posted: 10/2/2007 6:14:14 AM | When you compare Cuba to western democracies it's bad and ugly. When you compare it to the rest of the Latin American world over the last 50 years, it doesn't look so bad - it's better than Haiti, El Salvador, Guatamala, Argentina (not now, but over 50 years), Chile, and on and on.
Castro's a dictator who very quickly came to like power for it's own sake. But he doesn't run death squads. Pretty low bar, I know, but the bar was set by other dictators in the region. | |
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| Che Guevara/Cuban Revolution
Posted: 10/2/2007 6:36:00 AM | | One of the reason the bar is so low is because of American sponsored capitalist dictatorships during the cold war. | |
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| Che Guevara/Cuban Revolution
Posted: 10/2/2007 9:56:33 AM | Batista got the power by military coup prior to constitutional presidential elections, Castro assumed power by armed insurrectional response.
While both were governants by force and became dictators are not comparable one to another because the nature of their political interests.
By virtually any measure of political, economic and social factors, by UN data, Cuba was in better shape in 1958 than its today.
In the most relevant themes for comunist propaganda: health care and education, a wide variety of microindicators remain as the most advanced as were before Castro compared to developed countries and Latin American countries. Others are worse and has nothing to do with the US embargo to blame for.
"Is there any such thing as comunism that doesn't have all the bad stuff but good stuff?"
No. The collapse of the old Soviet Union and the comunist block without a single shot is proof enough if the people has a recognized voice and vote.
The purpose of the US Naval Station in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba is to serve a political agenda for both, US and Cuba to perpetuate antagonism.
Cuba, on oficial comunications with US in the atermath of 9/11, consented with the use of the base as prison and made promise for return of prisoners in the event of escape as a sign of sensitive solidarity with the pain of American people and adherence to the principle about "not to habour terrorists". | |
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| Che Guevara/Cuban Revolution
Posted: 10/2/2007 9:52:11 PM | Charles:
It is certainly muddy as to whether things in Cuba are better or worse with Castro versus Batista.
There is nothing muddy about the lameness of the "whatever his crimes" line regarding Castro. Castro is a criminal thug responsible for the misery and brutal oppresion of millions. "Yeah, but he built some schools and hospitals" can wait until he is compared with Vlad the Impaler (who also had his defenders as a robust defender against the Turks).
Nothing personal, mind you -- sadly, the US in its obstinacy has made Castro bigger than the petty thug that he turned out to be, even if he could have been more. | |
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| Che Guevara/Cuban Revolution
Posted: 10/3/2007 2:21:54 AM | Considering the nature of governance in Latin American countries, Castro isn't much worse than a slew of other dictators.
Unlike the English colonies which started off as self-governing (perhaps with the exception of Georgia, which was started by the Hanover Regime as a penal colony), All of New Spain had 'top-down" governments via appointed viceroys and the Catholic clergy.
So when Spain bailed from South and Central America in the 1820s, the people lacked the skills needed to govern themselves.
Almost 200 years later they still aren't up to the level of the USA and Canada.
Now as many here know Cuba is a special case where the USA evicted Spain from Cuba but in the face of an insurgency which had begun while Cuba was under Spanish ownership,
the USA gave Cuba independence (BIG MISTAKE IMO) but the corporates supported a
series of odious dictators...eventually Castro came to power where with the help of the Soviets he has remained for almost 50 years.
After Raul Castro passes on .. things are likely to get very interesting in Cuba; as many tyrants do, the Castro regime has had the tendency to remove anyone with political/leadership skill who could be a potential threat via a coup to the Maximum Leader's position.
This does have the side effect though of guaranteeing instability when Maximum Leader is deposed by the Grim Reaper if he hasn't named a successor who will be around for a long time and who will have the loyalty of the armed forces. | |
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| Che Guevara/Cuban Revolution
Posted: 10/3/2007 3:13:28 PM | Cubans were heavily oppressed under the previous regime. The Mob, and other corporate interests , used Cuba as a huge source of income.
It became a type of Disneyland for the corrupt - prostitution (including with children) , drugs , alcohol gambling , and repression of the Cuban people.
The Revolution, and it's support, came as no surprise.
After it, with the Cuban embargo, it had to rely on Russian foreign aid. In the meantime, the USA dealt with far more repressive regimes , and still do. China gets billions, and you still can't travel to Cuba without risking being charged with a crime.
Smoking a Cuban cigar, anywhere in the world, is a crime - if a US citizen.
The Cubans have almost the same life span, and suffer far less losses in hurricanes and storms.
The 2007 CIA World Factbook reveals that the average life expectancy for Cubans is 77.08 years. The book, an annual publication compiled by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency, contains statistical information on countries worldwide. The Factbook notes that life expectancy in the United States is 78 years.
An April 22 Associated Press news story quoted a 70-year-old retired gas station attendant who candidly described life in Cuba: “Sometimes you have all you want to eat and sometimes you don’t. But there aren’t elderly people sleeping on the street like other places.”
She may well have been alluding to the United States, a fabulously wealthy country just north of her island home. Here unimaginable wealth is concentrated in the hands of a microscopically small capitalist class, while on any given night nearly a million people go homeless.
n contrast, there is virtually no homelessness in Cuba, a relatively poor, developing country. The tightening of the U.S. blockade in the aftermath of the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union, Cuba’s former main trading partner, has caused shortages of food, medicine and other needed goods. To manage the shortages and protect against malnutrition, Cuba has a highly equitable food rationing and distribution system. Food supplies have markedly improved in recent years.
Why is the Cuban life expectancy equivalent to that of the United States? We’d have to start by noting that Cubans have free medical care. In contrast, in the United States more than 45 million citizens—not to mention the millions of undocumented—have no health insurance. Those tens of millions, many of them children, are left virtually to their own wits if they get sick, or hurt, in the capitalist system.
Obviously, a society that offers free medical care, with an emphasis on preventive health care, will have citizens with a longer average life span.
But there may be more at play here. Western scientists have been slowly coming to terms with the understanding that mind and body work together and that stress can be a major factor in bringing on illness. Cuba is a socialist society, where resources are used to meet human needs.
When a major hurricane hit Cuba, the people had been prepared and knew what to do. The community was prepared, and casualties were minimal. In Cuba, emergency preparedness planning and medical resources are designed to meet the needs of the entire community.
http://www.inteldaily.com/?c=145&a=1912
I've had a lot of friends vacation there, and all were able to move freely inside the country and talk to anyone they met.
They found the Cuban people generally happy, and certainly proud of their country. Especially with all the forces allied against it by the USA, that's pretty interesting to hear.
So , it seems the Revolution has worked for them quite well. | |
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| Che Guevara/Cuban Revolution
Posted: 10/5/2007 6:41:50 AM | There has to be a reason why cubans will try to make it to
American shores, cramming onto boats and rafts to brave
shark infested open ocean. | |
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| Che Guevara/Cuban Revolution
Posted: 10/5/2007 6:44:56 AM | There has to be a reason why cubans will try to make it to
American shores, cramming onto boats and rafts to brave
shark infested open ocean.
Communism is one of those things that looks good on paper,
but really sucks when implemented in the real world. Thats why,
without exception, every communist state has bee, almost out of necessity,
an oppressive, totalitarian state. Castros regime, despite any benerfits they
might have brought to Cuba, are just thugs and murderers. | |
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| Che Guevara/Cuban Revolution
Posted: 10/5/2007 7:14:57 AM | Of course Cubans are flocking to the shores of Florida, but so are other citizens of poor nations. Have we forgot about the poor Mexicans that come to America daily? The US has had an odious attitude toward the revolution because it thretens the hegemony in Latin America.
While there are no current political or economic systems that are perfect in the world, ask yourself why the US (government) would foster such hatred and resources to such a tiny island, is it because of the totalitarian government? nah, is it for the freedom of Cubans? nope, we don't buy that anymore, do we? not after Iraq.
It is because Cuba has gone in a different direction in the last forty nine years and the US should respect Cuba's sovereign right to do so.
I think if anything Americans should tell their government to stop dictating to them by telling them which countries they may visit, so much for the land of the free.
Viva Cuba! Viva Socialismo! | |
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| Che Guevara/Cuban Revolution
Posted: 10/5/2007 11:05:01 AM | Cubanguy Since I realize you speak from a position of personal knowledge, education and intelligence....I will look forward to reading more of your post on the subject. Please enlighten the masses. Thank you. Whisper  | |
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| Che Guevara/Cuban Revolution
Posted: 10/5/2007 12:21:55 PM | lol i love it when i see idiots with Che T-shirts in the streets, they are normally heavy metal heads, do they know Che Banned that kind of music? i bet they dont 
Che was a Murderer, why do you want him on your t-shirt. duh | |
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| Che Guevara/Cuban Revolution
Posted: 10/5/2007 12:32:03 PM | I would like someone to reply to this and tell me if they think that Cuba is better or worse off after Batista got overthrown? Were Cubans fleeing Cuba on bicycle inner tubes and other makeshift contraptions just to get to America during the Batista years as they are doing now under the Castro regime? That should answer your question.
I recently watched a dvd called "Fidel & Che" and I was inspired by it. I thought it was good after the Yankees got kicked out, however, I was dissapointed to see that Che was responsible for a lot of executions and that Huber Matos got arrested and thrown into jail for 20yrs for resigning from Castros government. Che and Castro are failures on the global stage. The only people who like them are other oppressive dictatorial regimes and idiots in college campuses who don't know any better.
Is there any such thing as communism that doesn't have all the bad stuff but good stuff?? Nope, all attempts at building an ideal communist country have failed miserably. Communism has killed, starved, or displaced hundreds of millions of people around the world because it doesn't work. People have to be FORCED into a communist system, and they still try to flee afterwards. Even the russians and chinese have corporations, what more proof does anyone need of communism's utter failure in the real world?
Secondly, why does Castro allow the US to have a prison in Guantanamo Bay. I think Castro should bomb them and get rid of them because I think that the US have no right to be there in the first place. Castro is the leader of a poor country with a weak military. The USSR no longer exists and the Chicoms are too interested in making profits. All Castro can do is spout out an occasional hate speech while the Marines laugh at their guard post and the Navy picks up another boatload of desperate Cubans. | |
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| Che Guevara/Cuban Revolution
Posted: 10/5/2007 3:55:14 PM | Although I have a lot of problems with Castro, the Cuban people in general seem not to. They supported the revolution, and still seem to. All the people I know that have visited there do not report a group of people that are being "oppressed" in the traditional sense.
They seem happy, and no ones standing there with a gun to their head making them say it.
Like the Soviet Union, one cannot stop a people rising up in revolt. Unless they accept the government, it will weaken and fall. After all the forces that rose up destroyed the Soviet Union, in almost every country it was under - the Cuban people are smart enough to do the same.
As Jim Morrison sang , "They got the guns, we got the numbers."
As to why people escape to the USA, that's easily explainable. They know that they are welcome there, and will be supported. Should they wish to start somewhere, that's a great choice, it they are not happy there.
Look at what happens to a Haitian fleeing HIS tyranny and poverty.  I think he has to not only float across all that water , he also has to probably make it PAST Florida to even have a chance to get accepted as a political refugee. 
Any Cuban that touches American soil gets accepted on the spot.
In the end, it's the choice of the Cuban people to accept their government, or refute it. | |
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| Che Guevara/Cuban Revolution
Posted: 10/14/2007 5:41:44 AM | Although I have a lot of problems with Castro, the Cuban people in general seem not to. They supported the revolution, and still seem to. All the people I know that have visited there do not report a group of people that are being "oppressed" in the traditional sense. They seem happy, and no ones standing there with a gun to their head making them say it. That's because they have a wacked out sense of pride in the face of American supremacy. They tolerate tremendous suffering under Castro because he stood up to "The Yankees". America is the most macho nation in the world, Castro stood up to them and managed to cling on, therefore Castro and the Cubans are more macho.
.... blah blah blah. In the end, it's the choice of the Cuban people to accept their government, or refute it. That is correct. That is why the US 'gubment is taking a hands-off approach with Cuba. As long as Castro stays on his poor island making a lot of hot speeches and not much of anything else, then we're content to sit back and laugh at Cubans floating into our shores on TV. Cuba has nothing of real value to the USA. We've already got plenty of Cuban women, we already drill for oil in the waters off of FL, and we've set up plenty of other vacation destinations all over the Carribean. Castro still runs Cuba because that armpit just isn't worth bombing. | |
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| Che Guevara/Cuban Revolution
Posted: 10/19/2007 7:58:30 AM |
That is correct. That is why the US 'gubment is taking a hands-off approach with Cuba. As long as Castro stays on his poor island making a lot of hot speeches and not much of anything else, then we're content to sit back and laugh at Cubans floating into our shores on TV. Cuba has nothing of real value to the USA. We've already got plenty of Cuban women, we already drill for oil in the waters off of FL, and we've set up plenty of other vacation destinations all over the Carribean. Castro still runs Cuba because that armpit just isn't worth bombing.
Marko, the Bay of Pigs wasn't an agricultural disaster. | |
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| Che Guevara/Cuban Revolution
Posted: 10/19/2007 8:51:39 AM | | The bay of Pigs was carried out drring a time where the Soviets were the threat. An attempt to overthrow Castro then was more of an effort to overthrow an area of communist support than it was about some guy on his Island. The United States couldnt have communist territory 90 miles away from her shores. | |
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| Che Guevara/Cuban Revolution
Posted: 7/4/2009 1:45:27 AM | You obviously do not know your history. After the October crisis the US signed a treaty and agreed that if Russia removed it's missiles from Cuba they in turn would remove their missiles from turkey and agree that no further hostilities would happen against Cuba.
That did not happen though because the US sactioned terrorist actions against the country also the CIA was involved in a number of attempts on Castros's life.
I can tell you never have been in Cuba and listen to all the propaganda that your country teaches you. Anyone who has visited Cuba thanks GOD that the US is not there | |
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| Che Guevara/Cuban Revolution
Posted: 7/4/2009 3:37:28 AM | They seem happy, and no ones standing there with a gun to their head making them say it.
That's because if they felt any other way about their gov then they would get thrown in prision for it.
http://www.article19.org/speaking-out/cuba
I can tell you never have been in Cuba and listen to all the propaganda that your country teaches you
Yep, it must be all propaganda, that's why thousands upon thousands of Cuban's fled Cuba to Florida over the years to escape Cuba's dictatorship gov. | |
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| Che Guevara/Cuban Revolution
Posted: 7/4/2009 9:21:09 AM | Is there any such thing as communism that doesn't have all the bad stuff but good stuff??
Sure; read about Yugoslavia under Tito, or Venezuela under Chavez, though technically speaking they were/are socialist governments, not communist.
You might also want to read about (small c) communism on a smaller scale, which seems to adhere to the real spirit of communism. Read about the Hutterites, Mennonites and (I think) the Amish. To the best of my knowledge they are communist societies.
why does Castro allow the US to have a prison in Guantanamo Bay
He doesn't "allow" it, he tolerates it. Taken from the Spanish by war, Cuba was a US protectorate (like the Phillipines, or Puerto Rico, or Palau, etc.) until Castro's revolution kicked the US lackey (Batista) out. Initially, the revolution wasn't in opposition to the US and Castro looked forward to good relations and so had every reason NOT to attack Guantanamo. Unfortunately, the US didn't like the idea of a communist so close to their border and set themselves up in opposition to Castro, which didn't exactly endear the US to him, but by then it would have been tantamount to a declaration of war to kick out the US troops at Guantanamo, and Castro was more concerned with trying to hold his country together. Considering that the US has been trying to stage counterrevolutions, enforce embargoes, and assassinate him since shortly after he took power, I'd say Castro has done a superlative job in simply surviving to become the biggest thorn in the US's side.
I think that the US have no right to be there in the first place.
I agree! | |
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| Che Guevara/Cuban Revolution
Posted: 7/10/2009 10:28:50 AM | "Yeah, but he built some schools and hospitals" can wait until he is compared with Vlad the Impaler (who also had his defenders as a robust defender against the Turks).
We're talking about Castro, not bush!
Yep, it must be all propaganda, that's why thousands upon thousands of Cuban's fled Cuba to Florida over the years to escape Cuba's dictatorship gov.
Thousands left; Millions stayed | |
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