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| What is she trying to tell you when she's complaining?
Posted: 10/12/2007 11:05:24 PM | Ok the first thing I want to say is that this is not another hate thread on the ladies, its actually an attempt to try to understand you better. If it helps out some of my fellow men out there then good for us all.
Heres the deal I was reading the infamous "Men are from Mars ..." Book and one of the things it list as a difference in communication between men and women is that when faced with a problem men will tend to seek another's advice to try to find the answer or fix the problem, where as when women are telling you about a problem they are having they are looking more for empathy instead of actually trying to get help on fixing the problem. I have 2 questions on this first for the ladies is this really true.
Then Second why just complain about a problem why not try to get help in actually fixing the problem instead of just trying to feel better. This may be one that helps us all out. | |
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| What is she trying to tell you when she's complaining?
Posted: 10/12/2007 11:10:52 PM |
men will tend to seek another's advice to try to find the answer or fix the problem  .....Since when? I find quite the opposite. Guy's whom I have come across tend to either ignore the fact that there actually is a problem, ignore the problem or 'Don't want to talk about it'.
Women will nag and nag until the guy has no choice but to face the problem, THEN and only then can something be done about it to rectify the situation. | |
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| What is she trying to tell you when she's complaining?
Posted: 10/12/2007 11:18:29 PM | I cannot speak for any other woman than myself, but if I mention something to my man, I am either a): directly asking for his help in finding a solution, or b): merely "thinking out loud". Many people (M/F) do the latter quite often, with friends or co-workers, depending on the topic at hand, not just with relationship issues and our S/Os . It sometimes puts things in a clearer perspective than to just have thoughts running pellmell in your head. Expressing these thoughts out loud gives them a type of cohesion, if you will. I and many other people (M/F) would rather not complain. It is annoying.
Books often overcomplicate the simplest matters.
*C* | |
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| What is she trying to tell you when she's complaining?
Posted: 10/12/2007 11:23:13 PM | Sometimes (for me anyway ... not speaking for other women in this case) I find that depending on the problem, and if it's not related to the relationship, I will just 'share' what I'm going through and sometimes talking it out just helps. There's a difference between just needing to vent about something and coming to another person wanting their help in resolving it. So if I've had something happen say at work that I just need to talk about, I want someone to listen and have compassion for it, not offer me solutions unless I've asked for it. Usually by the time I start talking about it I've worked out scenarios to better the situaiton and just need a sounding board... not someone to necessarily come to the rescue.
That's where the need to be friends first with someone becomes important. I'd hope that they could come to me in the same manner and that we could discuss everthing openly. I would ask if they were looking for a solution or just venting as well. Some guys don't ask for directions... but women do. We might want to get feedback, but mostly we want to be heard and feel like there's some empathy from our SO about what we may be going through.
That's just my 2¢ worth from my personal experience. | |
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LWK
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Joined: 7/10/2006
Msg: 5 | |
| What is she trying to tell you when she's complaining?
Posted: 10/12/2007 11:56:52 PM |
first for the ladies is this really true.
no
Then Second why just complain about a problem why not try to get help in actually fixing the problem instead of just trying to feel better. This may be one that helps us all out.
what comes to mind here is when a women is driving to somewhere she's not familiar with and gets lost she will most certainly stop and ask for directions even if she has to try a few different stops to get the answer she needs. Can this be said for men??????? most of em no . She'll look for a quick solution to the problem whereas more times than not the man's pride will have him driving around in circles for hours rather than admit he needs help getting where he's going .
JMHO | |
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| What is she trying to tell you when she's complaining?
Posted: 10/13/2007 12:15:51 AM |
why just complain about a problem why not try to get help in actually fixing the problem instead of just trying to feel better.
It's desparation! Why go through the whole process of trying to deal with the thing in a 'rational' way when men don't see 'rational' the same way as women do. Go straight for the jugular and complain about it. Whether women like it or not, when they want to talk feelings or emotional issues you can be pretty sure we are thinking about 1. cars, 2. computer games, 3. sport, 4. alcohol or 5. other women. I've certainly been guilty of thinking about no.1 above when I should be listening. lol | |
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| What is she trying to tell you when she's complaining?
Posted: 10/13/2007 12:25:16 AM | This is true SOME of the time, but not always. I know many men who also discuss their lives, and challenges without looking for help trying to figure it out.
Why do we do it? For many different reasons. Well, most of the time we want to hear input....but we're not always going to agree with it, or maybe we will sit and ponder about the solution you offered for a while before deciding what is best to do. Some "problems" don't really have plausible solutions, but it still helps to discuss them and get them off our chest. I think for many women talking about a problem frequently usually leads to more possible solutions, or relieving the tension that the problem is causing....even if there is no solution, eventually it will fade and not keeping it bottled up usually helps it fade away much faster than it would otherwise. Sometimes we talk about things just to see where you stand, and to see if the solution that we were already considering would bother you, or if you would agree with it. And then sometimes we are just outright thinking out loud, and don't want to talk to ourselves, because that would be crazy....right?? lol. | |
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| What is she trying to tell you when she's complaining?
Posted: 10/13/2007 12:30:58 AM |
Women will nag and nag until the guy has no choice but to face the problem
The Difference Between Men and Women
Let's say a guy named Fred is attracted to a woman named Martha. He asks her out to a movie; she
accepts; they have a pretty good time. A few nights later he asks her out to dinner, and again
they enjoy themselves. They continue to see each other regularly, and after a while neither one of
them is seeing anybody else.
And then, one evening when they're driving home, a thought occurs to Martha, and, without really
thinking, she says it aloud: "Do you realize that, as of tonight, we've been seeing each other for
exactly six months?"
And then, there is silence in the car.
To Martha, it seems like a very loud silence. She thinks to herself: I wonder if it bothers him
that I said that. Maybe he's been feeling confined by our relationship; maybe he thinks I'm trying
to push him into some kind of obligation that he doesn't want, or isn't sure of.
And Fred is thinking: Gosh. Six months.
And Martha is thinking: But, hey, I'm not so sure I want this kind of relationship either.
Sometimes I wish I had a little more space, so I'd have time to think about whether I really want
us to keep going the way we are, moving steadily towards, I mean, where are we going? Are we just
going to keep seeing each other at this level of intimacy? Are we heading toward marriage? Toward
children? Toward a lifetime together? Am I ready for that level of commitment? Do I really even
know this person?
And Fred is thinking: ...so that means it was...let's see...February when we started going out,
which was right after I had the car at the dealer's, which means...lemme check the
odometer...Whoa! I am way overdue for an oil change here.
And Martha is thinking: He's upset. I can see it on his face. Maybe I'm reading this completely
wrong. Maybe he wants more from our relationship, more intimacy, more commitment; maybe he has
sensed - even before I sensed it - that I was feeling some reservations. Yes, I bet that's it.
That's why he's so reluctant to say anything about his own feelings. He's afraid of being
rejected.
And Fred is thinking: And I'm gonna have them look at the transmission again. I don't care what
those morons say, it's still not shifting right. And they better not try to blame it on the cold
weather this time. What cold weather? It's 87 degrees out, and this thing is shifting like a
garbage truck, and I paid those incompetent thieves $600.
And Martha is thinking: He's angry. And I don't blame him. I'd be angry, too. I feel so guilty,
putting him through this, but I can't help the way I feel. I'm just not sure.
And Fred is thinking: They'll probably say it's only a 90-day warranty...scumballs.
And Martha is thinking: Maybe I'm just too idealistic, waiting for a knight to come riding up on
his white horse, when I'm sitting right next to a perfectly good person, a person I enjoy being
with, a person I truly do care about, a person who seems to truly care about me. A person who is
in pain because of my self-centered, schoolgirl romantic fantasy.
And Fred is thinking: Warranty? They want a warranty? I'll give them a warranty. I'll take their
warranty and stick it right up their...
"Fred," Martha says aloud.
"What?" says Fred, startled.
"Please don't torture yourself like this," she says, her eyes beginning to brim with tears. "Maybe
I should never have...oh dear, I feel so..."(She breaks down, sobbing.)
"What?" says Fred.
"I'm such a fool," Martha sobs. "I mean, I know there's no knight. I really know that. It's silly.
There's no knight, and there's no horse."
"There's no horse?" says Fred.
"You think I'm a fool, don't you?" Martha says.
"No!" says Fred, glad to finally know the correct answer.
"It's just that...it's that I...I need some time," Martha says. (There is a 15-second pause while
Fred, thinking as fast as he can, tries to come up with a safe response. Finally he comes up with
one that he thinks might work.)
"Yes," he says. (Martha, deeply moved, touches his hand.)
"Oh, Fred, do you really feel that way?" she says.
"What way?" says Fred.
"That way about time," says Martha.
"Oh," says Fred. "Yes." (Martha turns to face him and gazes deeply into his eyes, causing him to
become very nervous about what she might say next, especially if it involves a horse. At last she
speaks.)
"Thank you, Fred," she says.
"Thank you," says Fred.
Then he takes her home, and she lies on her bed, a conflicted, tortured soul, and weeps until
dawn, whereas when Fred gets back to his place, he opens a bag of Doritos, turns on the TV, and
immediately becomes deeply involved in a rerun of a college basketball game between two South
Dakota junior colleges that he has never heard of. A tiny voice in the far recesses of his mind
tells him that something major was going on back there in the car, but he is pretty sure there is
no way he would ever understand what, and so he figures it's better if he doesn't think about it.
The next day Martha will call her closest friend, or perhaps two of them, and they will talk about
this situation for six straight hours. In painstaking detail, they will analyze everything she
said and everything he said, going over it time and time again, exploring every word, expression,
and gesture for nuances of meaning, considering every possible ramification.
They will continue to discuss this subject, off and on, for weeks, maybe months, never reaching
any definite conclusions, but never getting bored with it either.
Meanwhile, Fred, while playing racquetball one day with a mutual friend of his and Martha's, will
pause just before serving, frown, and say: "Norm, did Martha ever own a horse?"
And that's the difference between men and women. | |
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| What is she trying to tell you when she's complaining?
Posted: 10/13/2007 12:46:38 AM | It’s sometimes called “trouble talk” and it is usually about venting and connecting.
Sometimes when I hear it coming out of my mouth it helps me get clear on what the problem actually is. Other times it is the act of getting it concise or organized to explain to someone else that brings me clarity – or perhaps the questions they ask or comments they make give me the insight I was missing. And then, yeah, there are those unevolved times when I’m feeling petty or stressed or ticked off and telling my “oh woe is me” is about processing it and it’s a comfort – later I’ll be a big girl and go handle it.
So, yeah… just listen when women are venting. If it helps, think of the venting stage as “problem identification”. I think a guy brain can get that. (I imagine it can be painful as a guy to sit and listen to this stream of seemingly angst ridden drivel and NOT jump in to help out the woman you care about).
I haven’t read the book, but a guy I’m rather fond of has and says that was the most useful advise in it. I’ve noticed he waits until the end before offering solutions – and he invariably offers them respectfully (he frames it as offering his perspective – more as a “did you consider x?” than a “you should do x”). When he jumps in with a fix he’s caught himself; that’s incredibly endearing. In return, I’m aware of the process difference and I try to name that I'm just venting and, perhaps more importantly, keep the angst venting dialed down to a minimum.
I really think the positive outcome is when you both realize there is a processing difference and both try to adapt a bit to communicate more effectively with each other.
There are other differences in the way men and women communicate. If you’re interested check out any of Deborah Tannen’s books – “You Just Don’t Understand” is a must read and “Talking 9-5” is fabulous for revealing how communication plays out in the work place | |
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| What is she trying to tell you when she's complaining?
Posted: 10/13/2007 2:10:02 AM | It isn't complaining....women's brains work in such a way that they need to talk things out in order to find the solution to the problem. It is the process their brains use.
They do this all the time with female friends, because female friends will automatically (almost in most cases) empathize with them and their feelings. Men however don't work that way..they just want to find a way to fix it, feelings are dealt with later (if ever).
Just how we are wired...not wrong, not right. :) | |
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| What is she trying to tell you when she's complaining?
Posted: 10/13/2007 3:20:00 AM |
Can this be said for men??????? most of em no . She'll look for a quick solution to the problem whereas more times than not the man's pride will have him driving around in circles for hours rather than admit he needs help getting where he's going.
It was only a matter of time before some bitter person would start the assault on men vs women----and the asking for directions is the perfect worn-out topic to begin with I guess.
FWIW the thing about men not asking directions is we tend to be creatures of action and to a large part discovery, too. Instead of seeking "help" at the first sign we might not be on the perfect path to our destination we tend to revert to our built in self reliance our problem solving tendencies. Women tend to seek consensus on things like directions so incorporating others is tapping into their methods of resolving a problem or situation. It really has nothing to do with pride or failing to admit something---we simply like to do things for ourselves sometimes.
Its said a young man askes questions in seeking better understanding about women and he's treated to this instead. Doesn't this fly directly in the face of the assumption men don't seek directions? LOL This sort of knee jerk reaction without thinking first could discourage anyone----at least to this sort of person.
OP instead of the Men-Mars/Women-Venus book get a few by Debroah Tannen, Phd who you might find extremely more illuminating. She's a linguist and has made extensive studies of HOW men and women use language to communicate with the emphasis on the romantic or involved aspects. I've found her book invaluable and well worth the time invested. | |
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| What is she trying to tell you when she's complaining?
Posted: 10/13/2007 3:21:35 AM | | Honestly most of the women I know what you to "feel" for them. They dont want any fixing to happen til they feel that u understand why it makes them feel that way. We dont want to just make you do things we want u to know why first... if that helps any | |
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| What is she trying to tell you when she's complaining?
Posted: 10/13/2007 3:43:36 AM | genegem - a classic 
JWA - I am also tired of that "directions" thing.
I never get lost, but I have had the experience of many women who cannot read a street map. So let's call it a draw on the them/us battle. OK everyone?  | |
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LWK
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Joined: 7/10/2006
Msg: 17 | |
| What is she trying to tell you when she's complaining?
Posted: 10/13/2007 3:45:44 AM |
It was only a matter of time before some bitter person would start the assault on men vs women----and the asking for directions is the perfect worn-out topic to begin with I guess
bitter? hmmm ok your entitled to that opinion . I would say its wrong but then I know me much better than you do . My point was that ..no ...not all women feel the need to discuss something to death instead of seeking a solution . Some of us go to where we will get the fastest answer to get the job done , directions only being one example . ss if that offended you | |
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| What is she trying to tell you when she's complaining?
Posted: 10/13/2007 4:21:37 AM | Great question, goodmankeepingitreal. At first I thought it was obvious, but then on reading the posts, I realised it was not clear at all.
I've seen a few reasons posted:
1) Because their other half isn't listening.
2) Because they want to talk it out.
3) Because they want to vent their negative feelings.
Guess what? Men do all of this too, for the same reasons. Also, when men do it, women often are just as lacking understanding as men when women do it.
Perhaps some women can post WHY they do this differently than men do, both in a different fashion, and about different subjects. | |
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| What is she trying to tell you when she's complaining?
Posted: 10/13/2007 4:44:44 AM |
Perhaps some women can post WHY they do this differently than men do, both in a different fashion, and about different subjects. I think it's more individual than this.
I think it's useful to recognise that complaining is a social tool: people bond over complaining about the weather, the government, the traffic, the coffee machine, their boss... etc etc. I can be a right Pollyanna at times but I do this too. Sometimes I wish I didn't complain about stupid things when I do know better, but it actually helps build connections and feelings of unity and association -- uniting against a common enemy, even if it's only a coffee machine, is something that leads to bonding and positive feelings. You can sit down with a colleague and have a good whinge about the managers and the working relationship between the two of you is strengthened and become more positive - if the other person suggested solutions to your complaint (other than the obvious ones involving guns and/or trebuchets) then they are denying this opportunity -- and generally are doing it intentionally, to make themselves appear better or to purposely alienate you.
Different things matter in different ways to different people. Different things are points of pride. Sometimes people complain because they want to be appreciated: look this job is difficult and I want you to realise it! There will be commonalities between men and women because more women than men have a sense of pride in their human insight or ability to manage people and more men than women have a sense of pride in being able to fix the car or to put up the shelves or to navigate. | |
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| What is she trying to tell you when she's complaining?
Posted: 10/13/2007 5:25:14 AM | | I think the book reflects well on the communication problems between the sexes. I don't necessarily agree with the facts stated above. I think men usually look inside themselves for the answer and do not seek advice. Women usually are just venting or sounding off about something. Unless I ask, "what do you think" when I sounding off, I am not asking for another's opinion. Everyone's style is different. | |
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| What is she trying to tell you when she's complaining?
Posted: 10/13/2007 7:03:55 AM | genegem-Touche!!
"Then Second why just complain about a problem why not try to get help in actually fixing the problem instead of just trying to feel better. This may be one that helps us all out."
I can only speak for myself and the women I know and it is because we like to get it out of our heads and talking about it helps that. Just to have it out there and have someone else have heard it makes it seem less daunting. Then our friends might describe a similair situation, issue that they have had, and it makes us feel that we are not alone. That is all I want in most cases.
Men (in general) make me want to scream when they go "let's just think about this logically." I don't wanna!!  | |
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| What is she trying to tell you when she's complaining?
Posted: 10/13/2007 8:01:56 AM | Genegem - that's way too funny, but close to the truth.  So, what happened to Fred and Martha? I want to know the ending! Hmm, that seems like Fred's "friend" asking if Martha ever owned a horse.
Complaining isn't limited to women only, I'm afraid we don't have that market cornered. I've met some fellas that sound almost like 3 year old with the constant complaining and whining. I guess the Complainers and Whiners should be labeled Drama Queens and Kings. Not much fun to hang around them.
Men and women communicate differently, it's a given. Women do figure out their own problems and they also fix their problems. We just talk about it out loud, and we don't always get to the point. That's ok, because the end result is our problems are solved. | |
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| What is she trying to tell you when she's complaining?
Posted: 10/13/2007 8:23:01 AM | A woman is seeking validation in these circumstances. More than likely, she's happy with her solution but now she wants to know that what is going on in her life is important to you, too. Validation. When she comes through the door guns a-blazin' put down the damn remote control, look her straight in the eyes, give her FULL attention, and don't say a word. When she's done hug her, kiss her and tell her you're sorry to hear about what a terrible day she had and would she like a cup of tea/coffee/jack and coke. You're job is easy. Don't get stressed out thinking you have to fix anything for her. Just give her some love.
genegem: loved it. | |
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