Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > UK forums  > Creationism or Evolution?      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 T1mberwolf
Joined: 6/15/2007
Msg: 1
Creationism or Evolution?Page 1 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
A nice straightforward simple question this one...well, as straightforward and simple as defining the totality of existence can be anyhow

Basically, you have two theories on where humankind came from - an allpowerful supernatural being created us and indeed, everything else at the very beginning of time (around three thousand years ago), alternatively, we were all some sort of bacteria stuck to a rock, which hit another rock an incalculable amount of time ago, and over a period e developed into a squishy thing sat infront of a computer screen.

Which do you believe?
 Whitey1974
Joined: 11/24/2006
Msg: 2
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 10/25/2007 10:36:58 AM
I used to attend church, weekly although I now only attend occasionally, but I definately believe in God and a higher power. I don't really have an opinion on Darwin's theory or evolution because IMHO their is an afterlife and heaven

Evolution is a bankrupt speculative philosophy, not a scientific fact. Only a spiritually bankrupt society could ever believe it. ... Only atheists could accept this Satanic theory.Rev. Jimmy Swaggart
 T1mberwolf
Joined: 6/15/2007
Msg: 3
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 10/25/2007 10:45:02 AM

Evolution is a bankrupt speculative philosophy, not a scientific fact. Only a spiritually bankrupt society could ever believe it. ... Only atheists could accept this Satanic theory.Rev. Jimmy Swaggart


Thats not a quote I personally would have used. They sound more like the frightened words of a man in denial as opposed to a thoughtful arguement against evolution
 Guy66
Joined: 4/18/2007
Msg: 4
view profile
History
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 10/25/2007 10:47:42 AM
I read somewhere God created the universe and Satan caused it to evolve

Me I don't know
 Tuttifruity
Joined: 9/6/2007
Msg: 5
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 10/25/2007 10:48:47 AM
well if this helps i don't believe in god.. but i believe in spirtuality

God or the theory is based on a story with no foundation... well in my mind. I believe in something based on my own personal values and feelings.

So does that make it so that science wins the debate?

Well if we go by the fact some men are very hairy maybe! lol
 Mr-Bear
Joined: 10/5/2007
Msg: 6
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 10/25/2007 10:58:53 AM
This sums it all up for me.

http://www.yoism.org/?q=node/196
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 10/25/2007 11:35:52 AM
creationism or evolution which do i believe in.....?

'ME'....is the simple answer...

what comes before or after is always up for debate on anything i'd put forward on beliefs...i know what 'I'VE' seen and felt, heard and sensed..though what's the point of saying anything when you get shot down (such as -message number 5 and spiritual message 7 ) ...after all we have individual experiences,and for most indoctrinations on beliefs...

in a civilised debate, i may of divulged....this is shoot the messenger on here...

too much mercury has turned some mad!..:O)

(i'm a winged messenger..time to fly to another thread...)
 Dance Commander
Joined: 6/26/2007
Msg: 8
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 10/25/2007 11:48:58 AM
Evolution is a scientific theory, and like all theories can be tested, modified, proved, argued with etc. Creationism requires a suspension of critical faculties and belief over reasoned argument.

I'm with Darwin and Bill Hicks. "I've got one thing to say to Creationists... dinosaurs."

I'm an atheist. I don't beleive in God, the supernatural or the afterlife. I think when you die you become worm food and there is no more. Life isn't a dress rehearsal.
 socialjustice
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 9
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 10/25/2007 11:49:12 AM
as some wise soul once said - never talk about politics and religion, you dont know who you are going to offend.

i am firmly in the evolution camp, i am aware it is only a theory and will only listen to arguments from religious people who accept that their version of events is also only a theory.

as it is unlikely that either theory will ever be proved it comes down, IMHO, to whether you can believe in an almighty creator or a scientists view of our world.

nicked from richard dawkins - the god delusion

I don't try to imagine a personal God; it suffices to stand in awe at the structure of the world, insofar as it allows our inadequate senses to appreciate it.
Albert Einstein



VVVVVV the beauty of free thought and speach at its finest, to belive in what you want and how you want.
 Whitey1974
Joined: 11/24/2006
Msg: 10
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 10/25/2007 11:50:30 AM

MY argument would be that it's the religious people who are the ones with closed minds. But to meet people who still beleive in religion with the education available to us? At best, lazy. At worst, a fu*kwit.


Well you are entitled to your atheist opinions but I still believe in God and religion, nothing you can post will change my opinion.

God is love, God is everywhere
 All_hail_to_the_Hypnotoad
Joined: 10/12/2007
Msg: 11
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 10/25/2007 11:52:12 AM

i am firmly in the evolution camp, i am aware it is only a theory and will only listen to arguments from religious people who accept that their version of events is also only a theory.

as it is unlikely that either theory will ever be proved it comes down, IMHO, to whether you can believe in an almighty creator or a scientists view of our world.


There is a HUGE difference between one and the other. That difference is evidence. Lots on the side of evolution (even if some of the details are yet undiscovered or incorrect), and absolutely NO evidence on the part of creationists.
 guernsey_donkey
Joined: 1/31/2006
Msg: 12
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 10/25/2007 11:54:10 AM
Well since, as you point out, they are both theories, one assumes that a rational, educated, person wouldn't accept or dismiss either until they were proven, or not.

I've seen no reason not to accept that assumption, so far.
 All_hail_to_the_Hypnotoad
Joined: 10/12/2007
Msg: 13
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 10/25/2007 12:00:24 PM

Well since, as you point out, they are both theories, one assumes that a rational, educated, person wouldn't accept or dismiss either until they were proven, or not.

I've seen no reason not to accept that assumption, so far.


No, a theory is a well constructed argument. Creationism is anything but that.

Again, I'll say it's down to evidence. lots on one side, none on the other.

A question for you?

I think, therefore I am.
True do you think? or not true?
There is no proof. only evidence.
Everything we do is based on this.
All of our mathematics is based on the premise that we actually exist.


To put it another way, if it looks like a duck, acts like a duck and quacks like a duck, you have to at least entertain the idea the bloody thing might be a duck.
 socialjustice
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 14
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 10/25/2007 12:02:41 PM

There is a HUGE difference between one and the other. That difference is evidence. Lots on the side of evolution (even if some of the details are yet undiscovered or incorrect), and absolutely NO evidence on the part of creationists.


yes i agree with the majority of that, however their is a cool little theory that creationists have bandied about.

The contention that the bacterial flagellum could not have evolved rests upon the further contention that the bacterial flagellum is irreducibly complex. However, as shown in 4.2, the irreducible complexity of a structure or mechanism does not preclude its evolution.

the rest of this is at
http://www.vuletic.com/hume/cefec/4-3.html


as i said i am in the evolution camp, but i still like to keep an open mind. i also believe in letting people believe in what they want, dedriding people for what they believe in hardly moves the argument forward.

 peachyperfect
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 15
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 10/25/2007 12:09:04 PM
i belive in evolution pretty much, im certainly not part of the god squad...

i respect anyones right to choose what they will and to belive in what they will..

however i dont respect those views to be forced on others..or used to create nonsense laws..or so called morals to live by...however i digress...

as a side note..if god is love and everywhere..is he on tea break when thousands at a time die, or innocents are taken? Cos i know for sure id fight tooth and nail to save the ones i love.

Lou
xx
 Mr-Bear
Joined: 10/5/2007
Msg: 16
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 10/25/2007 12:24:31 PM
I am always swayed by intelligent arguments based on logical observation so on that basis, evolution edges out creationism for me. I do NOT agree that this justifies an attack on religion. Religion is a very useful device for understanding humanity and it provides a strong moral framework for many people. The problems start to occur when people try to use their beliefs to argue about concepts that are beyond the scope of religion, such as science.

I am also concerned that atheism has become little more than another form of religious dogma for many of its proponents. The arguments that many atheists espouse are often little different in their intent from those of any other religious fanatic.
 All_hail_to_the_Hypnotoad
Joined: 10/12/2007
Msg: 17
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 10/25/2007 12:29:53 PM

I am always swayed by intelligent arguments based on logical observation so on that basis, evolution edges out creationism for me. I do NOT agree that this justifies an attack on religion. Religion is a very useful device for understanding humanity and it provides a strong moral framework for many people. The problems start to occur when people try to use their beliefs to argue about concepts that are beyond religion, such as science.

I am also concerned that atheism has become little more than another form of religious dogma for many of its proponents. The arguments that many atheists espouse are often little different from those of any other religious fanatic.



The attack IS justified on religion on the grounds that policies made in our societies consider religion.

Yes, religion can offer a moral framework. So can thinking for yourself.
Atheism is not dogma. Any scientific atheist would beleive in god tomorrow morning if there were evidence for it.
 rosso27
Joined: 6/6/2007
Msg: 18
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 10/25/2007 12:34:46 PM
The 'youngest' dinosaur fossil has been carbon dated at around 65 million years.

The 'oldest' humanoid fossil is around 5 million years old.

A gap of 60 million years.

The Creationists would have us believe the World and all the species upon it were created in the space of seven days.

Hence the largest possible gap between the fossil records would be 6 days (remember the Lord rested on the seventh day) as opposed to the 60million years the evidence shows us.

So there are several choices possible:
a) All the Scientists are liars and Carbon Dating is bogus
b) The dinosaur fossils were 'planted' by God to test the faith of his adherents
c) Evolution happened

Make up your own minds.....

My view is that the Creationists have as much credibility as the Flat Earth Society......
 socialjustice
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 19
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 10/25/2007 12:38:54 PM
No, a theory is a well constructed argument. Creationism is anything but that.


then how do you explain the irreducible complexity theory?

theories are just that - theories. i agree that evolution seems to be better researched and founded, but you cannot dismiss creationism out of hand and say there are no theories when there plainly are - the reason for my post with the link in.

i too am an aethiest, but an open minded one.



(edit re msg30)

i have read the article and the point of it as i have already said was not to prove creationism, but rather to show you another argument or theory - of which you said creationists had none. i am not arguing for irreducible complexity, rather that it is a theory. i do not believe it myself, but that does not mean it isnt a theory. as i have already said both ideas are only theories, however i believe that evolution has been researched further and IMHO is more sound.
 Wizzywig57
Joined: 5/11/2007
Msg: 20
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 10/25/2007 1:10:58 PM
Timberwolf: Seems to me you've set the cat among the pidgeons here. Was that your intention? Also you haven't actually said which side of the fence you're on.
 Whitey1974
Joined: 11/24/2006
Msg: 21
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 10/25/2007 1:12:11 PM
All you atheists and non believer will be sorry on judgement day. When you reach the gates of paradise, instead of going on to heaven you will be going on to purgatory, then down to hell.

Even if you support Darwins theory of evolution, surely it is much better to be agnostic rather than a spiritually bankrupt atheist?
 Tuttifruity
Joined: 9/6/2007
Msg: 22
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 10/25/2007 1:14:47 PM
Some information facts about evoloution and that not everyone thinks in the same aspects as theres many different forms of it!


Evolutionism - A General Definition
"Evolutionism" means different things to different people. For example, there are theistic evolutionists and there are atheistic evolutionists. But the basic premise behind the evolutionary world-view is atheistic. Theistic evolutionists are those who have managed to reach a compromise between two very distinct world-views: creationism and evolutionism. Evolutionism, in its purer form, is the idea that this universe is the result of random cosmic accidents. Life arose spontaneously via chance chemical processes, and all life-forms are related and share a common ancestor - from bananas to birds, from fishes to flowers, apes to Adam, etc.

Evolutionism - A Broad Overview
Evolutionism is a world-view, which seeks to explain every aspect of this world in which we live. It encompasses a wide variety of topics, from astronomy to chemistry to biology. At its core, it teaches that there were different stages in the evolution of our universe:

Cosmic-evolution. While the original "Big Bang" Theory is now a dead theory, from its ashes have emerged the "Inflationary Universe Theories" (IUT's). Starting with Alan Guth in the late 1990's (The Inflationary Universe: The Quest for a New Theory of Cosmic Origins), the scientific community has proposed roughly 50 different IUT variants. The general idea remains the same: In the beginning there was nothing. Then a "singularity" suddenly appeared, exploded, and the rest is history.

Stellar-evolution, Chemical-evolution and Planetary-evolution. After the primordial Bang, stars and planets slowly evolved. It's thought that the initial explosion produced hydrogen, helium and possibly lithium. These three elements condensed to form the first stars. That's stellar-evolution. The incredible heat and pressure inside of those early stars acted upon the Hydrogen and Helium, producing many of the chemical elements we observe today. This is chemical-evolution. We've identified 118 chemical elements, from Hydrogen (H) to Ununoctium (Uuo). 90 of the first 92 listed in our Periodic Table of Chemical Elements are thought to occur naturally, with the two exceptions being #43 (Technetium or "Tc") and #61 (Promethium or "Pm"). How did the other 87 get here? Apparently, they were produced inside stars. When these stars died, these chemical elements were released into space. These elements eventually came together via natural forces, condensed and formed planets, more stars, and solar systems like our own. This is stellar and planetary evolution.

Organic-evolution. This is the idea that life spontaneously generated in a "prebiotic soup."

Macro-evolution. This is the widely-held notion that all life is related and has descended from a common ancestor: the birds and the bananas, the fishes and the flowers -- all related. From the goo, through the zoo, to you over millions of years! This is the stage of evolution which Charles Darwin popularized in his classic, Origin of Species, published in 1859. Darwin didn't invent the theory, but he gave it credence by supplying a plausible mechanism: natural selection.

Evolutionism - Micro-evolution
The final phase taught in evolutionism is Micro-evolution. This evolutionary phase is unique in that creationists and evolutionists generally agree on this one. This is the idea that there can be variations within different kinds of animals. There can be tall people, short people, black people, and white people. There are many different shades of skin and many different eye colors, but people are still people. Just because your skin color is different from somebody else's, that doesn't mean you're any less human than they are. No, we're all human; we just express different traits. Human DNA allows for these traits. But variation is thought to be constrained by the genetic code. The code itself allows for variation, but there are genetic boundaries in place to limit them (people don't turn into non-people, and pigs will never fly).
 All_hail_to_the_Hypnotoad
Joined: 10/12/2007
Msg: 23
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 10/25/2007 1:33:43 PM

A title is a title it doesn't make them the person they are or what they are about..



You don't get to have the letters B.Eng or B.Sc after your name unless you really are one. You have to be to be able to think in a way which will allow you to complete the course.
 socialjustice
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 24
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 10/25/2007 1:41:30 PM
thats as maybe and terribly off topic, would you concede that however unfounded creationism is, the irreducible complexity theory is still a theory?



VVVVVVVyes, but will the fence sitters get into heaven as whitey hinted at?
 Katxxxx
Joined: 8/26/2007
Msg: 25
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 10/25/2007 1:41:33 PM
this is always a contentious subject...

I lean towards evolution too as there is more scientific evidence to back up the theory of how we came to be...

However i have no problem with people having faith in a higher 'being'. If it is a source of comfort to you then good for you.... as long as its not force fed to me i dont care..

I am not a believer, nor am i a non believer... so i guess it puts me in the position of agnostic..

"... an agnostic is someone who not only is undecided concerning the existence of God, but who also thinks that the question of God’s existence is in principle unanswerable. We cannot know whether or not God exists, according to an agnostic, and should therefore neither believe nor disbelieve in him."

Yep.... thats me!



yes, but will the fence sitters get into heaven as whitey hinted at?


Well, if God exists and he's a bloke he will want to prove it, what with me being a mere female, and let me in just to say na na na na naaaa!
Show ALL Forums  > UK forums  > Creationism or Evolution?