| Decisions and Karma
Posted: 10/29/2007 2:33:45 PM | Today I made a decision that caused me a lot of pain. I rescued a severly abused dog about 6 months ago. I have worked with him trying to bring him back around without the success I had hoped for. Today I made the decision to put him to sleep. A lot of though went into the decision yet still I cried as he was put down.
Do you ever wonder if the pain we feel is the Karma payment for errors in a previous life, or are we getting it wrong and we are going to have to redo it?
Or do you believe we pick the life we have, before we get here for the learning experience of it? | |
|
| Decisions and Karma
Posted: 10/29/2007 2:40:05 PM | The way I look at karma is when we make a choice to do something, good or bad, it will be returned to us threefold.
The pain we feel when we make a difficult and painful decision is not karma. It is the emotional attachment we have and our desire to not have to do it.
I almost think you are confusing reincarnation with karma.
If you believe in reincarnation, then the problems you have in life is merely the lessons you need to learn and did not learn in your past life. In my case, I need to learn how to accept change and develop patience. I will keep reliving my life till I learn these lessons. Each time I have to repeat it, the lessons will get harder and harder.
But that is my belief on it.
Do I think we have the choice to choose what life we have? I am honestly not sure. If that is true, I have to wonder sometimes what hell I was thinking when I chose this life!!! | |
|
| Decisions and Karma
Posted: 10/29/2007 3:38:05 PM | I am sorry to hear... In no way do I believe this was bad karma heaped on you for doing wrong... It is an experience which showed you a bit of your "you".
I commend you on your actions and think you did a very good thing... He may have had to go down, but you ensured he was loved and I have a feeling he knew it... You probably gave him alot of joy seeing there is kindness behind some eyes and I bet it made his passing easier for him.
Do you ever wonder if the pain we feel is the Karma payment for errors in a previous life, or are we getting it wrong and we are going to have to redo it?
Sometimes I think some things we do here will affect our next life... Lessons learned and such, but I don't believe in getting it "wrong" really.
Or do you believe we pick the life we have, before we get here for the learning experience of it?
Sometimes I believe this too but I don't think we'd see the whole life we are to choose... Just the time and place we will be born... The path would depend on our decisions, our environment, our body and the decisions of those close to us. | |
|
mak68
|
Joined: 10/9/2007
Msg: 4 | |
| Decisions and Karma
Posted: 10/29/2007 3:47:55 PM | Today I made a decision that caused me a lot of pain. I rescued a severly abused dog about 6 months ago. I have worked with him trying to bring him back around without the success I had hoped for. Today I made the decision to put him to sleep. A lot of though went into the decision yet still I cried as he was put down.
Well I'm sorry to hear that, my condolences. Sometimes it's those hard decisions that hurt the most, but they may be for the best. I can only speak for this life, that's the only one I think we ever get. Sometimes things just aren't fair, either of our own doing or others doing, or that's the circumstances. The important thing to remember is to keep going forward.
Do you ever wonder if the pain we feel is the Karma payment for errors in a previous life, or are we getting it wrong and we are going to have to redo it?
No. Whenever pained, it's usually a result of something I've done, someone else has done to me, or sometimes just bad fortune. It helps to reflect and try and figure it out. If your dog was beyond rehabilitation, quite likely the abuse he suffered was just too severe, even though you tried. If you gave him a good and comfortable place to be, at least he had that. That is something a lot of abused pets don't ever get. I can't see how it is due to something we may have done in some kind of previous life that we don't even know we had. It just doesn't make sense. If there is "karma", it makes much more sense that we pay for our wrongs in the life that we commit them in, because we know why we're being "punished". In a "next" life, how could we ever know?
Or do you believe we pick the life we have, before we get here for the learning experience of it?
I think we win the genetic lottery, and are born. Out of all the combinations we could have been, we are what's here. We grow up and learn how to live, adapt, overcome, and try and find as much happiness in as much things as we can. I think we only have this one life, make the most of it, it won't last forever.
Now, if you don't mind, I think I'll go sign up for scuba lessons (always wanted to do that). | |
|
| Decisions and Karma
Posted: 10/29/2007 4:46:57 PM | SFL, I am sad that you are sad, my condolences. As a pet owner, I sympathise with your pain.
Last Christmas, a cat I had since birth died in my arms; he was 18. Just writing about it now hurts me. But I think back to those 18 years. Bob was an awesome cat and he was very much loved.
Was it karmic though? I believe so. I believe all lives in our immediate sphere are karmic.
Just a thought though. Perhaps it was your pets' karma to be in the circumstances he found himself in? Perhaps as Stone said,
I commend you on your actions and think you did a very good thing... He may have had to go down, but you ensured he was loved and I have a feeling he knew it... You probably gave him alot of joy seeing there is kindness behind some eyes and I bet it made his passing easier for him.
I don't see this as negative. You both found love.
And yes, I believe we "pick" this life. But that's a whole 'nother thread.....
Cheers, Raven | |
|
| Decisions and Karma
Posted: 10/29/2007 5:57:18 PM | Karma = cause and effect. I drop my pen, it falls to the ground. That is Karma.
Karma is the effect, Dharma is the laws by which it operates. | |
|
| Decisions and Karma
Posted: 10/30/2007 10:53:40 AM | I'm with Paul, for the most part. Not necessarily that dharma equates to the strength of gravity, but that it's a cause-and-effect gig. Dharma's the path, and karma is the effect of either walking it, or going one's own way.
As for the situation, I'll add my condolences first, then go into my metaphysical "take". Big hugs, for starters, 'cause Feral knows the joy of a pet's love and the pain of loss.
In my view, as regards the metaphysics of the situation, though, I feel that it's a kind of a cusp, a turning point for deciding how to progress in the dharma. "Into every life, a bit of rain must fall", you know? It's how we deal with such things that advance our dharma and resonate karmically in future situations. | |
|
| Decisions and Karma
Posted: 10/30/2007 2:17:43 PM | Feral!
It's very good to read you again!
I'm with Paul, for the most part. Not necessarily that dharma equates to the strength of gravity, but that it's a cause-and-effect gig. Dharma's the path, and karma is the effect of either walking it, or going one's own way.
Don't get me wrong... I believe in karma as cause and effect as well but I just don't think the pain this caused was something meant for her to pay with... On the other hand, I think her act of kindness will certainly further her way. | |
|
| Decisions and Karma
Posted: 10/30/2007 4:57:42 PM | | Funnylady; the fact that you took in an abused dog and cared for it will bring good Karma to your life. The fact that you humanely had the dog put down will also bring good Karma to you because you did a difficult thing in a kind and compassionate manner. Karma operates on the intent of the heart. Since it is the intent behind one's actions that determine whether it is "good or bad", both your actions are good and will bring good Karma because they were for the benefit and not harm of another. | |
|
| Decisions and Karma
Posted: 10/30/2007 5:48:07 PM | This is a very complicated question because depending on what religious or spiritual beliefs you have, could be explained in different ways...the basic premise though, from my viewpoint, is what the intention was. Your intention was not to hurt this dog, it was to help him and by helping him, you've created good karma. Everyone will in their lifetime hurt someone, intentionally or inadvertently. I beleive you need to take responsibility for your actions if something you did caused someone pain or harm. If you do not take responsibility, the bad karma accumulates, but if you try to right a wrong, you've just created good Karma. In the end (if you beleive in reincarnation), if it is in this lifetime or another, everything needs to balance out, the good and the bad. I beleive that if someone has hurt you or caused you harm, you may not neccesarily live to see that person get some sort of "payback", and you shouldn't hope for it either because just by hoping for it and wishing the bad thoughts, your creating more negative karma on yourself. Giving someone anymore of your energy, after they've hurt you, is a total waste of time and doesn't serve any purpose...just beleive that in the end everything is balanced.
I beleive that there is no such thing as getting a get out of jail free card when it comes to Karma. Nobody can escape it and if you are the type of person that keeps hurting others, there are consequences to that, but it is not up to you retaliate. Revenge is one of the worst things you can do karmically speaking because it just creates more bad karma, and that karmic debt has to be repaid, just like the taxman....they always get their money...you can run and hide, but in the end you still need to pay it.
As far as if you've chosen this life before you were born, personally, I do believe you have , and the people who cross your path in this life are all part of that choice. They all serve a purpose and I personally do not beleive in coincidence.. every person, place or thing that you've encountered serves a purpose to your own spiritual growth.
Opie from what you say in your post, you did a great thing and your intentions were always good. You shouldn't feel that this is some sort of payback for something you did in the past....all you did was add good Karma to yourself and like I already said, in the end, it always balances out for everyone,,..nobody gets a free pass from harming another. | |
|
| Decisions and Karma
Posted: 10/30/2007 6:06:53 PM | | The problem I have with karma, is it seems to contradict free will, which is what karma seems to be dictated by. If I have free will to do whatever I chose, then how can I be kept under the karmaic laws of cause and effect. If the laws of karma are at work and ruling my life then what choices do I have, are not my circumstances already set in place? I just don't get it...maybe I am unable to understand this concept, because I don't believe in free will.. I wish i did believe in free will, because I would choose to be rich, choose to marry the woman I wanted, and then I would choose to jump off the earth and land on another planet. | |
|
| Decisions and Karma
Posted: 10/30/2007 6:37:02 PM | The problem I have with karma, is it seems to contradict free will, which is what karma seems to be dictated by.
Well, this is just my take on it but free will is just your ability to make decisions for yourself... Karma is cause and effect... The two go hand in hand in my view... Every decision you make has it's effects.
If the laws of karma are at work and ruling my life then what choices do I have, are not my circumstances already set in place? I just don't get it...maybe I am unable to understand this concept, because I don't believe in free will.. I wish i did believe in free will, because I would choose to be rich, choose to marry the woman I wanted, and then I would choose to jump off the earth and land on another planet
Aww, come on now! Hehe... No, it's more like if you kick a cement block with your bare foot, it will hurt... The cause of the kick will dictate the effect of the pain... But you can chose to kick the block or not to... Your decision dictates whether or not you break your foot... I know the comparison is on a smaller scale, but it's all the same.
Our decisions are the by-product of free will and Karma determines the effect created by our decisions(and everything else that happens for that matter).
That's just my view... Others will likely differ, but I think I got the gist of it. | |
|
| Decisions and Karma
Posted: 10/30/2007 7:03:19 PM |
Aww, come on now! Hehe... No, it's more like if you kick a cement block with your bare foot, it will hurt... The cause of the kick will dictate the effect of the pain... But you can chose to kick the block or not to... Your decision dictates whether or not you break your foot... I know the comparison is on a smaller scale, but it's all the same.
Our decisions are the by-product of free will and Karma determines the effect created by our decisions(and everything else that happens for that matter).
That's just my view... Others will likely differ, but I think I got the gist of it.
stonestongue
I do get the jist of it, but I have issues with it...lets stick to your example of kicking the cement brick. We are talking about self inflicted wounds basically, and I know numerous people who are in this vicious circle of inflicting themselves with wounds over and over again, and can't seem to get out..other lifestyle examples of kicking the cement block, could be girls who keep getting involved with the same type of guys over and over and getting hurt over and over...drug addicts who can't get off the pipe even though they want to.... sex addicts who continue to abuse over and over...etc...All of these actions have consequences of negative effects on the quality of life that is experienced...I don't see this as karma as i understand karma to be( as in getting payback for your actions from a previous life) But I see it as a result of people being victimized and acting according to the pain they are dealing with. I see life more along the lines of a 'Pavlov's dog theory' and responses and actions being based on conditions that are provided, as being what triggers an unconditional response in human behavior. I believe that a child will be a product of thier environment...and not the other way around that the environment will be a product of the child. | |
|
| Decisions and Karma
Posted: 10/30/2007 7:49:59 PM | ^^^^ Well that was just an example... It could be whether or not you catch a frisbee.
I believe that a child will be a product of thier environment...and not the other way around that the environment will be a product of the child.
The first part I agree with 100%... The second part I'm not partial to... Whether or not that child makes an impact on it's environment depends on the decisions made by said child... Starting a neighborhood watch, working at a soup kitchen, running for office, or anything which causes change to their surroundings.
I don't see this as karma as i understand karma to be( as in getting payback for your actions from a previous life)
Definatly not critisizing your view, but I see it more as whether or not you attain a certain level of experience in "being" which makes Karma dictate your next life... I don't see it as a form of punishment. | |
|
| Decisions and Karma
Posted: 10/30/2007 8:31:42 PM |
Definatly not critisizing your view, but I see it more as whether or not you attain a certain level of experience in "being" which makes Karma dictate your next life... I don't see it as a form of punishment.
I suppose to get right to the point of what I am suggesting as being the consequences or karma a person lives with, is not so much as thier descisions that have dictated this, but that thier karma or circumstances have dictated thier ability to make a decision. Maybe its just a vicious circle feeding itself. but what I have seen is that most people make decisions from the lifestyle they are absorbed in. Kinda like the movie with dan akroyd and eddie Murphy...'Trading Places' based on the two rich guys pulling strings in both of thier life circumstances. Dan Ackroyd went from being a so called pillar of his comunity to a beggarman thief because the rug(lavish lifestyle) was pulled out from under him, and Eddie Murphy went from being a thief to an honest person because he was given the lavish lifestyle..... My Point being, that Karma or circumstances we live under is what generally dictates the decisions we will make. Of course thier always is the exceptions to the rule, but I am speaking on generalized terms here... | |
|
| Decisions and Karma
Posted: 10/30/2007 9:04:10 PM | | consigliere31....i'm having a chuckle watching you two debate this...if you don't understand the concept, its probably because you're not ready to understand it...its sort of like NEWTON'S LAW OF MOTION ..3..'for every action , there is an equal and opposite reaction''....its the only way i can add science into this to explain it on a spirtual level.... | |
|
| Decisions and Karma
Posted: 10/30/2007 9:23:14 PM |
I suppose to get right to the point of what I am suggesting as being the consequences or karma a person lives with, is not so much as thier descisions that have dictated this, but that thier karma or circumstances have dictated thier ability to make a decision.
I think I know what you're saying, but I think it's both... I think you just come back and start again with your instincts and your inner gut "feelings" the only things provided by Karma... After that it is all up to the environment, decisions and amount of human experience you gain where you end up... I don't believe in fate... I believe our purpose is made- not- found by acting on what we believe and making decisions that affect ourselves and our surroundings.
Maybe its just a vicious circle feeding itself.
That's my take, but I'd call it more of a spiral type cycle... Going from the outside in... You get to the middle, you win a prize... What is the fine line between the "tool" and the "art"? I'm sorry... My own personal koan.
Kinda like the movie with dan akroyd and eddie Murphy...'Trading Places' based on the two rich guys pulling strings in both of thier life circumstances. Dan Ackroyd went from being a so called pillar of his comunity to a beggarman thief because the rug(lavish lifestyle) was pulled out from under him, and Eddie Murphy went from being a thief to an honest person because he was given the lavish lifestyle..... My Point being, that Karma or circumstances we live under is what generally dictates the decisions we will make. Of course thier always is the exceptions to the rule, but I am speaking on generalized terms here...
I liked the morals to that movie too... But although Ackroyd was being set up, Eddie could have been any poor slob... He was at the right place at the right time... Was it his Karma to be chosen over other needy folks or was it his decisions meeting a twist of luck (probability)?
When someone wins the lottery, I consider that odds and luck... I don't think Karma could win you the lottery as that is too materialistic thinking experience wise... I could be wrong though.
Gonna have to ponder this one. | |
|
| Decisions and Karma
Posted: 10/30/2007 10:16:36 PM |
consigliere31....i'm having a chuckle watching you two debate this...if you don't understand the concept, its probably because you're not ready to understand it...its sort of like NEWTON'S LAW OF MOTION ..3..'for every action , there is an equal and opposite reaction''....its the only way i can add science into this to explain it on a spirtual level....
I suppose I was trying to understand karma in the way the OP describes it, as being a consequence that we are either punished or rewarded for in another life that is initiated and caused by our actions, and not as a simple cause and effect that operates under the laws of the physicalrealm. Paulthesane describes karma as dropping a pen and it falls to the ground...In my perspective, there is nothing spiritual about that specific cause and effect, but it is a cause and effect governed by the physical world and its laws of gravity. Stonestongue gave example of kicking a cement block and it causing pain, again I see nothing spiritual about that but also something that is an experience of the physical realm. How is karma considered spiritual? newtons laws of motion again are all based on the physical laws of nature and not on the spiritual. What am I missing? | |
|
| Decisions and Karma
Posted: 10/31/2007 12:43:03 AM | I believe that Karma is the residual energy that we put off when we do things. For example, you have a house where a murder happens, especially when many are murdered there where it leaves this feeling in that house. It almost leaves a permanent corrupted handprint on that house so that many who come after feel that negative energy, even when they don't even know that this bad thing happened in the house.
I don't know that I really believe in the whole what goes around comes around because I have seen examples of people that are very negative and who I wouldn't consider doing what is right never get in this lifetime any sort of justice. Plus I have seen people that continually through their lives have done very positive and right things who never have good come around to them.
I rely very heavily on my intuition. It has always been extremely accurate and right on. I have found that when doing what is right most of the time is the hardest and usually least popular choice. And I have found myself worrying heavily because of my belief of what I think is going to happen when I make that choice. However, rarely does anything ever happen as I perceieved and usually always ends up being an extremely positive experience even though the subject might not have been very positive to begin with. | |
|
| Decisions and Karma
Posted: 10/31/2007 9:50:55 AM | How is karma considered spiritual? newtons laws of motion again are all based on the physical laws of nature and not on the spiritual. What am I missing?
Well, for me personally, I don't see the separation between the physical and the spiritual... Observing the laws of nature at work can be quite a spiritual experience... If "everything" came from the same source, it all has to tie in together "somewhere".
Even our physical world and the world of potential or possibility can't be too far away from each other if we can make decisions to bring a possibility to fruition... If I look at a certain way, it's all the same place.
Yeah... I don't really see the difference... I see spiritual gain from scientific discovery and find scientific merit from shared spiritual insight. | |
|
| Decisions and Karma
Posted: 10/31/2007 10:08:04 AM | My belief of Karma goes far beyond just one lifetime. I don't hide my beliefs in reincarnation, and although we often feel the "karmic reward or punishment" of our actions in the same lifetime, it is not always so. For example, the OP story with a dog.... maybe she had a dog in a past life that she did not care for properly, so she is paying the price in this lifetime.... or maybe the karma is not about her at all, it is about the previous owner that abused that dog, and this lady got the benefit of loving and caring for the dog. We don't know the "why" of karma all the time, it usually reveals itself to us in time though.... with the right mindset and consideration.
Another example - I have a very close male friend that I dated off/on for about 6 months.... and we are now very good friends, like brother and sister. I did several past life regressions, and found that we had been together romantically in several past lives, but it had always been a very "unbalanced" relationship - he got murdered one time, and I never married.... another time, he was crippled, and refused to marry me, so I married another man although my heart was never in it. This time.... we met in order to heal that karma together...... and we have reached a place of balance. We are good friends, and we are both happy and content with that.
 | |
|
|
Home
login 
