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| Is Freedom of Religion in danger From ENDA?
Posted: 10/31/2007 8:13:18 PM | I was doing some research regarding ENDA (Employment Non-discrimination Act) currently being reviewed for inclusion/amendment of the Civil Rights Act. The bill called, H.R. 2015 prohibits employment discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity.
In my research I've disovered that the majority of Christian opposition is claiming that to enact this law would endanger free religious exercise.
I'm trying to argue 'fairly' but in all my research I fail to find any actual examples of HOW this act would endanger the right to freedom of religion.
Can anyone offer any argument? | |
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| Is Freedom of Religion in danger From ENDA?
Posted: 10/31/2007 9:38:19 PM | | Employment of Pastors and related Clerical staff. Priests are hired. This could force Churches that do NOT ordain women to hire female clergy. | |
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| Is Freedom of Religion in danger From ENDA?
Posted: 10/31/2007 11:14:14 PM | They are afraid that they won't have a reason to not hire someone who they feel offends their sensibilities.
My personal view on freedom of religion is that anyone is free to have what spiritual views they wish, and not be persecuted for it. However, once those views impinge on the freedom of others to have differing opinions, the rights stop. | |
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| Is Freedom of Religion in danger From ENDA?
Posted: 11/2/2007 3:14:14 PM |
My personal view on freedom of religion is that anyone is free to have what spiritual views they wish, and not be persecuted for it. However, once those views impinge on the freedom of others to have differing opinions, the rights stop.
Then their rights stop! Name ONE religion that does not say everyone ELSE must believe it too. Islam is VERY specific. Non believers must convert or die. Period.
Religion needs to be ridiculed in the same way you would ridicule the fat old women who trek to Graceland every year to talk about how Elvis saved them. | |
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| Is Freedom of Religion in danger From ENDA?
Posted: 11/2/2007 4:12:44 PM | Well for all those who have voiced opinoins against equal rights for homosexuals, there sure doesn't seem to be a lot who care to defend why?
If there's a substantial arguement I, for one, would like to hear it.
The U.S. government has it's issues, but I believe in the ideal that the Constitution sets forth. I also believe that it's my duty to make sure that no one's rights are substantially affected when any law is enacted.
Therefore, I would like to know how ENDA would limit or infringe on the freedom of religious exercise.
This makes 3 formus on which I can find no responces. It's difficult to believe that so many millions oppose ENDA but I can find no just cause as to why. | |
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| Is Freedom of Religion in danger From ENDA?
Posted: 11/2/2007 4:36:50 PM | Emotionalheat - Since you haven't yet found anyone to take you up on the fight you're trying to pick, I'll bite. And I'll bite by simply repeating what the poster above said: Religious organizations would be forced to employ those whose beliefs differ from the religious organization itself.
Now, in doing my small part to cheer your day up, I'll say "them dang homos ought stay in the clawset whure they blong"!!
Happy now? | |
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| Is Freedom of Religion in danger From ENDA?
Posted: 11/2/2007 4:50:36 PM |
Name ONE religion that does not say everyone ELSE must believe it too. Islam is VERY specific. Non believers must convert or die. Period. And in a country with freedom of religion, adherents of religion are free to believe this. They are not permitted, however, to implement it. In the same vein, there are those who believe that homosexuals are going to burn in hell. Doesn't mean that they shouldn't be hired in this life.
Religion needs to be ridiculed in the same way you would ridicule the fat old women who trek to Graceland every year to talk about how Elvis saved them. See? You are perfectly entitled to believe this as well. But doing it wouldn't be right.
I personally don't believe in religion, but I'm not going to ridicule someone who does. To each their own. As long as they respect others rights to not share their beliefs.
It almost seems that the various religious organizations who are so vehemently against this bill are afraid they will be overwhelmed by a sudden tide of homosexuals applying for jobs. | |
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| Is Freedom of Religion in danger From ENDA?
Posted: 11/2/2007 9:39:35 PM |
And in a country with freedom of religion, adherents of religion are free to believe this. They are not permitted, however, to implement it. In the same vein, there are those who believe that homosexuals are going to burn in hell. Doesn't mean that they shouldn't be hired in this life.
You don't actually own/run any business do you? 
If you take the time to build a business venture and get to the point where you have to hire someone (NOT CHEAP IN CANADA by the way; A 30k salary costs the employer 45k), do you want to invest in a rational person, or someone who believes that those that don't believe the dogma they do, should be tortured for eternity? Remember this is YOUR MONEY, and LIVELIHOOD you are putting on the line. An employee is an INVESTMENT. Jesus and Allah are all very popular delusions and the churches make plenty of money off their credulous followers...
...but they are a crappy investment.
Freedom of religion is a DUMB FREEDOM. It glorifies the worst parts of humanity. Remember, EVERY Muslim you know prays 5 times a day and is COMPELLED to read from the Qu'ran at least as many times. I encourage EVERYONE here to pick up a Qu'ran and read it cover to cover, then decide if you want such a person working for you.
Even the most deluded devout Christian has a few problems with some of the things in the bible, but you will get no such objectivity from a muslim.
Such people are NOT people I want in charge or entrusted with MY hard work. I'm speaking as somebody who was dragged before the human rights tribunal... and exonerated. Will I fare as well the next time I decide I won't participate in supporting socially harmful delusions? I don't know. We are already at the edge of that slippery slope.
We are REGRESSING to the dark ages by pandering to these mass delusions. It has to stop.
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| Is Freedom of Religion in danger From ENDA?
Posted: 11/2/2007 10:02:33 PM | Clouser - thanks for trying, but I was hoping to find a more effective argument. I'm trying to be fair, but what you've stated doesn't make sense to me. The law that provides the free choice of religious exercice is also upheld in the Civil Rights Act itself. There should be no fear that religious 'organizations' would be forced to comply with something that already exempts them. This is simply a misunderstanding of what the new act (basically just an amendment to the Civil Rights Act) is trying to accomplish.
In another forum someone voiced a similiar objection in this way. That Churches and privatly run religeous schools often hier staff, including manitenance poeple, from the general public. That person didn't think it was right that the law would force them to hire an open homosexual.
But the law can't force that issue. If the school is a direct extention of the religious organization, it falls under the protection of religious rights. Do you understand?
This is why I'm so confused over the issue that is blocking so many from the gainful emploment of thier choosing.
Is there another issue?
If not, if I get no responces to any of my open forums, I well be forced to believe that some fanatical Christians are manipulating other Christians by taking advantage of their lack of knowledge with regard to the law. In so doing they are disceiving a great many people and willfully subjecting millions of poeple to oppression by their bigoted actions. | |
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| Is Freedom of Religion in danger From ENDA?
Posted: 11/2/2007 10:07:46 PM |
Freedom of religion is a DUMB FREEDOM.
Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion, which is a right you are exercising right now. There are countries, now and historically, where you would not be able to express such a sentiment except under pain of death.
You are correct in your observation that I am not a business owner. My father is, two of my brothers are and a sister is, but not me. One thing I do know is that if any of them hire someone, it is because the potential employee can do the job. What they believe on their own time is immaterial.
EDIT:
someone who believes that those that don't believe the dogma they do, should be tortured for eternity?
I would suspect that someone fitting this description is not likely to apply for a job where they are surrounded by infidels/heathens/heretics (pick your enemy) all day. | |
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| Is Freedom of Religion in danger From ENDA?
Posted: 11/2/2007 10:42:15 PM |
Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion, which is a right you are exercising right now. There are countries, now and historically, where you would not be able to express such a sentiment except under pain of death.
That just ISN'T TRUE! Danish cartoons; Muslims protest in Nathan Phillips Square with placards screaming "behead those who satire islam". NO news organization will SHOW the cartoons in question. Are any of them charged with hate speech? NO! Could I get in trouble under Canada's hate speech laws? YES I MIGHT!
Our head of state (the Queen) is also the head of the church of england, to which every Canadian taxpayer pays a tithe, whether they want to or not.
OUR TAX DOLLARS FUND CATHOLIC SCHOOLS!
Atheists are the MOST discriminated against, and we are in NO WAY "free from religion"
I would suspect that someone fitting this description is not likely to apply for a job where they are surrounded by infidels/heathens/heretics (pick your enemy) all day.
EVERY Muslim meets this criteria. They really believe it is their RIGHT to harm, subjugate or kill you. Remember... 5 times a day, reading an instruction manual (which is what Qu'ranic text is) on how to lie about the religion when muslims are the minority (Al Taqiyya) and how to punish infidels when they have control. Islam is NOT christianity. There are no moderates. It's VERY easy to find a Christian that will say some of the bible is just fiction and the morality in it (kill those who work on that sabbath, selling daughters as slaves, etc) is just wrong...
...try find a muslim who will say the same! READ THE QU'RAN. These people do not play by the rules! | |
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| Is Freedom of Religion in danger From ENDA?
Posted: 11/2/2007 11:37:41 PM | And Catholics' tax dollars fund public schools. And Alberta tax dollars fund programs in Nova Scotia, and I pay mess dues whether I go to the Jr. Ranks mess or not. Big deal.
Freedom Of/From Religion means that you are free to adhere to the spiritual doctrine of your choice (as opposed to having an official religion forced upon you), it does not mean that there will not be religion in the world which you reside.
This is going wa-ay off topic so I'll end my part in this. | |
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| Is Freedom of Religion in danger From ENDA?
Posted: 11/3/2007 3:01:43 AM |
Freedom of religion is a DUMB FREEDOM.
The same might be said for the freedom granted fools to rant about another's "dumb" freedom, but there it is. I get to freely exercise my faith (or non-faith) and you get to spout your hatred to anyone who will listen. Seems like a fair deal. | |
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| Is Freedom of Religion in danger From ENDA?
Posted: 11/3/2007 4:17:45 AM |
I well be forced to believe ... fanatical Christians are manipulating other Christians ...their lack of knowledge ... disceiving a great many people ... subjecting millions of poeple to oppression ... bigoted actions.
As long as you got it off your chest. | |
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| Is Freedom of Religion in danger From ENDA?
Posted: 11/3/2007 9:42:30 AM | Are there any open continents left...
Looks like we're gonna need one. Or all you non-believers could colonize space and leave all of us religions here on earth and let our returning saviors fight it out.
But seriously.
I think the problem is that we've come so far and argued back and forth so much about the same things that we've rationalized our way into a corner and some of us are looking for answers that will not come without the shedding of blood. Lets face it... homosexuality and AdamEveuality ain't going to mix.
There's a fight coming... and that ain't the only issue. Numerous LIC's are on the horizon over this (low intensity conflicts) but we may see a need to make zones for awhile.
But seriously two.
I think the only way for christianity to win this issue is to make a play for property rights issues again. We've stop calling people in this country property a long time ago but now we're stuck with some of the legal reprecutions of the time when we did. This aspect of our law is linked with freedom of religion. Some of the larger older churches are having their chickens coming home to roost... maybe the apologies weren't enough... | |
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| Is Freedom of Religion in danger From ENDA?
Posted: 11/3/2007 10:57:17 AM | I don't' know if it will prove useful, but when Canada enacted or amended laws to make sexual orientation a protected area, and the subsequent equality granted to same sex couples in regard to marriage, they also enacted or amended to he various laws ad acts to include an accommodation for religious groups and individuals.
For example, a public Marriage Commissioner may refuse to marry a same sex couple because of personal beliefs that prevent him/her in good conscience from doing so. It's unlawful to punish them for refusing. It's an accommodation for conscience, much like the accommodation that allows a doctor to refuse to perform an abortion without censure or penalty. Religious groups in Cnaada cannot be forced to hire a homosexual in that group doesn't believe that homosexuality is permissible.
I see it as a reasonable balance between rights. Several people have stated "your rights end when it meets my rights". Well, what if I say "Your rights end when it meets my rights"? If your right is to be hired without discrimination on the basis of your sexual orientation, and my right is a firm conviction and belief that homosexuality is wrong and hiring you would be against my faith's teachings, then our exercise of our two individual rights conflict. To insist that your right trumps mine because it's yours is a trampling of my rights and creates an inequality. The Canadian accommodation resolves that potential conflict by making neither right superior. Both remain equal and different. | |
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| Is Freedom of Religion in danger From ENDA?
Posted: 11/3/2007 12:00:56 PM | While I disagree with codec's stance, he has a very valid point. Why should your freedom of religion trample on my rights as a business owner? I have never been in favor of the government involvement in private business. If they want to pass a law that those who discriminate based on religion can't hold government contracts then I am all for it. They spend way to much time legislating my morals. They don't want me to smoke...pass a law, want to make be open minded...pass a law. It's BS. If a company doesn't want to hire you because you are pagan do you really want to go to court and force them to let you work there? Like wise, if you know of a company that discriminates agains Muslims you can boycott them and if enough people do so then they won't be a company. We have the power already. We don't need a law.
BTW, I don't smoke and don't have a problem with anyones religion. I just think that private business should be allowed to run their business as they see fit...and if I don't like it, I can make sure I don't do business with them. | |
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| Is Freedom of Religion in danger From ENDA?
Posted: 11/3/2007 5:19:48 PM | Romanticop - thanks for the idea. As I read it I thought it sounded reasonable, and then I began to think about it more. You see the Cival Rights Act is already in place, it has been for over 30 years. Thirty years, there was basically the same battle being waged by the fanatical Christian sector, but in 30 years there has been no visable affect to the freedom of religious exercise. ENDA is simply amending the law that is already in place. It was not meant to be a "special" law, it was meant to correct a miscarriage of justice under a current (and quite extensive) law. HONESTLY, if we attempted to change ENDA so that those who are Christian and offended by the gay lifestyle could choose how to treat the GLBT, they could also choose how to treat, any of the other minorities currently proteced under this law from encountering such bias. As you can see, this would be totally unproductive.
baseballfan - has voice her opinion with regards to governments involvement with business. Basically that the government is directing business how to conduct their business practices, in spite of what business owners believe.
baseballfan - your argument is very broadbased and I wonder if it's been well thought out. Consider that the major corporations are the largest prviders of jobs in the United States. I won't bore anyone with all the little fact and figures, I will just try to stick to law. Corporations, for good reason, are considered to be an 'entity' under the law. They are owned by shareholders, who may or may not be transient in nature, but they ALL have one purpose, to make money. This is why the government decided that corporation needed to be a legal seperate entity. Because the corporation is a 'created' entity, it is assumed to be a very responsible citizen, and it WILL follow ALL the laws, as directed under federal code and by the state in which it holds its charter. There can be no argument in this, because corporations have the money, the strength , and the capacity to ruin this county - therefore its considered imperitive that they be responsible citizens.
Now, talking about other forms of businesses, most of the laws that are created that would affect business, exclude businesses bases on certain qualities. Mostly those businesses where employees are a small number have exclusion. Because its understood that to put the measures related to such law into affect could substantially financially burden those smaller businesses. Now the fact is that there are some 17 million small businesses compared to the several thousand corporations in this country. We already know that corporations are good citizens and will follow all laws, and we NOW know that there are millions of businesses that would not be affected by ENDA.
So somewhere in between the Corporations, and the small businesses are an aweful lot of Christians who think that divorce, adultery, sex outside of marriage, sex outside their race(religion), lieing, stealing, cheating, bigotry and judgmental opinions, as committed by heterosexuals, are somehow more forgivable, in fact even desirable over being admittedly gay.
I would like to make a point here. There is a major flaw in the Civil Rights Act, as it stands today. The closer ENDA gets to passing the harder Christains are going to come down on those they know, believe to be and EVEN PERCIEVE to be gay or lesbian. There is nothing in the law to protect ANYONE from being on the receiving end of that injustice. Make a silly jesture in front of the wrong person, maybe a jealeous co-worker, and find yourself without a job, because you were percieved to be gay. What's more, there is nothing to stop the person who fired you from telling future employers that you were fired because you are gay. THE LAWS DO NOT APPLY TO GLBT - whether you are or not, it was 'perceived' and it's ok, in this country, to be bigoted against those who have no law to protect them.
Don't you understand, a hole in the law, means things can come up, as well as go down. | |
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| Is Freedom of Religion in danger From ENDA?
Posted: 11/3/2007 8:11:11 PM |
While I disagree with codec's stance, he has a very valid point. Why should your freedom of religion trample on my rights as a business owner?
Because Freedom of Religion (or non-Religion) is a Right, and there is not "right" to prevent someone form taking a job that they are qualified for on the basis of the "religion" (or non-religion). Just as he can't refuse someone because they a Italian, or a homosexual, or any age between 18 and 65, or pregnant, or a woman, or a man, or disabled, and so on.
As for government involvement, Rights laws are usually enacted because certain people don't want to treat others fairly. The government isn't forcing him to hire a religious person (or a homosexual). It's penalising him if he is prejudiced in his hiring practices. That's a Good Thing. | |
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| Is Freedom of Religion in danger From ENDA?
Posted: 11/3/2007 9:32:30 PM |
Freedom of religion is a DUMB FREEDOM.
I see that you have decided to state this as a fact as if you may possibly have the exclusive truth on this and yet I do believe that this is indeed just your belief and/or opinion.
If you take the time to build a business venture and get to the point where you have to hire someone (NOT CHEAP IN CANADA by the way; A 30k salary costs the employer 45k), do you want to invest in a rational person, or someone who believes that those that don't believe the dogma they do, should be tortured for eternity? Remember this is YOUR MONEY, and LIVELIHOOD you are putting on the line. An employee is an INVESTMENT. Jesus and Allah are all very popular delusions and the churches make plenty of money off their credulous followers...
...but they are a crappy investment.
First of all,as I would hope to be a rational,logical and critical thinker needed to possibly run a successful business of my own,I would first come to the conclusion that there is NO AVAILABLE EVIDENCE to draw conclusions that Jesus and/or Allah are 'the delusions' of another...there may be competing views and theories but no available evidence that I could draw any conclusions that would determine another is delusional because they choose to believe this.
And if one is truly going to look upon an employee as an investment as well,then in my opinion,I would think that it makes it even more important than ever to hire someone based on their individual merits,and virtues in reference to the job in the first place notwithstanding religious differences one may have.
In my opinion,there are indeed some unearned privileges that are predetermined in the womb that others use to dominate and discriminate against others in the workplace.And in my opinion,religious prejudice is more than just a passive disobedience to others in the workplace but also used to discriminate against another in the workplace as well.
And as for this part of the quote: "Remember this is YOUR MONEY, and LIVELIHOOD you are putting on the line," then I would have to add that, IN MY OPINION,if this same one's livelihood and money for personal gain also depends upon this same one's clients and/or customers that are also religious to make this happen,then to me it makes this one not only prejudice but it would also make this one a walking contradiction! Of course this is just my opinion. | |
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| Is Freedom of Religion in danger From ENDA?
Posted: 11/3/2007 10:04:24 PM |
EVERY Muslim meets this criteria. They really believe it is their RIGHT to harm, subjugate or kill you. Remember... 5 times a day, reading an instruction manual (which is what Qu'ranic text is) on how to lie about the religion when muslims are the minority (Al Taqiyya) and how to punish infidels when they have control. Islam is NOT christianity. There are no moderates. It's VERY easy to find a Christian that will say some of the bible is just fiction and the morality in it (kill those who work on that sabbath, selling daughters as slaves, etc) is just wrong...
...try find a muslim who will say the same! READ THE QU'RAN. These people do not play by the rules!
Weeee.. I get to defend the Islamics now. This should be interesting! Let me slip on my Professor cap again...
The basic tenets of Islam, also known as the Five Pillars of Islam are:
A. THE CREED OF ISLAM (SHEHADA)...
1. This is the profession of faith in Islam: "There is no other
god but God; and Muhammad is the Prophet of God" (la ilaha
ill'Allah, Muhammad rasul Allah)
2. Professing this creed is sufficient to make one a convert to
Islam, provided the following conditions are met:
a. To repeat it aloud
b. To understand it perfectly
c. To believe it in the heart
d. To profess it till death
e. To recite it correctly
f. To declare it without hesitation
-- Nigosian, ibid.
B. PRAYERS (SALAT)...
1. "The next most important religious duty after the profession of
faith is prayer."
2. "Qur'anic texts prescribe only three prayers a day, but Islamic
tradition requires five: at dawn, noon, mid-afternoon,
evening, and night."
3. "Muslims may not waive the obligation to pray five times daily
even if they are sick or on a journey."
a. "The sick are to pray in bed and, if necessary, lying down."
b. "Travelers are enjoined to pray at dawn, to combine noon
with mid-afternoon prayer, and evening prayer with prayers
that follow nightfall, thus praying three times daily."
4. "Prayers may be said either in private or in public worship."
5. "All public or ritual prayers must be preceded by ritual
purification both of the individual and the place. Ablutions
(wudu' or ghusl) secure bodily purity."
a. "...Muslims was their foreheads, hands, and feet before they
pray..."
b. "If no water is available, then hands and feet may be wiped
with fine, clean sand."
c. "Muslims pray on a mat or rug in token of purity secured for
the spot or place."
d. "Shoes or sandals are removed before devotees step on their
prayer rugs."
6. "...a worshipper prays facing in the direction of Mecca (qibla)
a direction which is indicated in mosques by a niche in the
wall (mihrab)."
7. "One day a week is set aside as a day of public prayer (Friday)
...Muslim women do not attend public prayers, although some
mosques have a room or section set aside for them."
8. "Prayer is the heart and essence of Islam. Any Muslim who
willfully avoids prayer is considered to have forsaken Islam."
-- Nigosian, ibid.
C. RELIGIOUS TAX (ZAKAT)...
1. "The third duties of a Muslim is to give alms to the poor as an
outward sign of true piety."
2. "There are two kinds of almsgiving: legal (zakat) and voluntary
(sadaqa)."
3. "In Muslim canon law legal alms are assessed at one-fortieth
(2.5%) of an individual's income in kind or money."
4. "Legal almsgiving is now more or less defunct, because many
Muslim states follow western systems of taxation."
-- Nigosian, ibid.
D. FASTING (SIYAM)...
1. "The fourth duty of a Muslim is to fast during the twenty-nine
days of the ninth month of the Islamic lunar calendar (the
month of Ramadan)."
2. "...during the day Muslims abstain from food, drink, and sexual
intercourse; but these proscriptions are lifted between sunset
and sunrise."
a. "All adult male and female Muslims fast from sunrise to
sunset."
b. "Only children, the sick, nursing or pregnant mothers, the
aged and travelers are exempt, though anyone exempted by
reason of temporary disability or circumstances is expected
to make up an equivalent period of fasting."
c. "The end of each daytime abstention is celebrated joyfully
after sunset."
3. "Those who observe the fast faithfully and in a spirit of
sincere repentance are assured of a remission of sins."
a. "Voluntary fasts at various times during the year other than
the month of Ramadan are also considered as meritorious
acts..."
b. "None, however, other than Ramadan, may last any more than
three consecutive days."
-- Nigosian, ibid.
E. PILGRIMAGE (HAJJ)...
1. "The fifth prescribed religious duty of every Muslim is to make
a pilgrimage to the holy shrine of Ka'ba in Mecca."
2. "It is an obligation to be fulfilled at least once in a
lifetime by every adult who is sane, healthy, financially
capable of supporting his family during his absence, and able
to underwrite the expenses of the journey."
3. "The pilgrimage...can be performed only on specified days (the
seventh to the tenth) in the last month (Dhu'l Hijja, the
twelfth month) of the Islamic calendar."
4. "A cross-section of Muslims from all walks of life and of
varying color, race and nationality realize their equality
before God as they meet on common ground at least once a year."
-- Nigosian, ibid.
"Jihad, as an Islamic concept, can be on a personal level --
inner struggle against evil within oneself; struggle for
decency and goodness on the social level; and struggle on the
battlefield, if and when necessary." - 1st Islamic Web
(http://islamicweb.com)
2. "Islam permits fighting in self-defense, in defense of
religion, or on the part of those who have been expelled
forcibly from their homes. It lays down strict rules of combat
that include prohibitions against harming civilians and against
destroying crops, trees and livestock. As Muslims see it,
injustice would be triumphant in the world if good people were
not prepared to risk their lives in a righteous cause." - ibid.
3. There is diversity of opinion among Muslims regarding the
meaning of jihad
a. "Some Muslims, like Sufis, promote the conquest of one's
self as 'the greater holy war', while they disparage
conflict with unbelievers or infidels as 'the lesser holy
war'."
b. "Others put forward the argument that fighting, or holy war,
is justified only in self-defense."
c. "Still others, like Zaydi and the Ahmadiyya, reject the idea
of fighting or holy war and advocate peaceful negotiation as
the most effective means for upholding the principles of
Islam." - Solomon Nigosian, Islam: The Way Of Submission
d. Of course, there are the extreme Islamic fundamentalists,
who make it clear that their concept of jihad includes the
killing of innocent civilians in an offensive war for God
So.. with that said class, we see that not all Islamics believe in slaughtering the "infidels". Like any religion, it is the extremists who seek this path. And an extremist in any religion is dangerous.
Please, do not make assumptions and asinine claims if you do not know what you are talking about. It really makes you look like a fool.
Any more questions class?
~Professor Freya | |
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| Is Freedom of Religion in danger From ENDA?
Posted: 11/4/2007 2:20:45 AM | I see many others, of many callings, have beaten me to the "put the loudmouth prat in his place" game. Damn, I was hoping to be the one to offer a History lesson this time.
Ironic, that a non-muslim would claim to know so much about Islam- yet clearly doesn't understand anything except what the media tells him. Newsflash: if it wasn't for Islam, nobody on Earth would know who Plato, Socrates, Aristotle, or the other classical philosophers were. Mathematics, architecture, anatomy, medicine: all would be backwards and stunted. The faith you so despise- while cowardly insisting that there is nothing wrong with your egocentric view- has directly affected the world far more than you can imagine.
We are all connected. Sever yourself from everyone else, and it is you who suffers. | |
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| Is Freedom of Religion in danger From ENDA?
Posted: 11/4/2007 6:12:56 PM |
Arguments against ENDA
Opponents of the law often argue that, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, sexual orientation is a choice, like religion, which is actually protected under the Civil Rights Act of 1964, but unlike other protected factors such as gender and race, and thus should not be equally protected. They also argue that homosexuality and transgender identity are "unnatural," "immoral" or violates their religion. They say the law creates a protected class that "promotes homosexuality" and negatively affects their interpretation of family values.
Additional claims of opponents involve a form of free speech covering freedom of association. Opponents say that the legislation, in its current form, would eliminate the ability of organizations such as the Boy Scouts of America to prevent homosexual men from becoming scoutmasters. A policy analyst with Concerned Women for America claims that many faith-based organizations, even those which are tax exempt, would be discriminated against under ENDA. Groups such as Christian schools, Christian camps, faith-based soup kitchens and Christian book stores would be forced to adopt a view of human sexuality which directly conflicts with basic teachings of their faith.[citation needed] However section six of the bill specifically gives exemption to religious organisations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment_Non-Discrimination_Act#Arguments_against_ENDA I doubt that the ENDA would make any true problems with enlightened, homosexual people who were of a perfect mind and action, with 100% integrity, never slandering religion, or other people's viewpoints, just because they felt hurt in some way. If the ENDA added a clause that it only applied only to such people, I believe that many organisations would be in favour of it. But this is not the case. Given the number of people who rant against religion, you might as well show a video of gay porn to 5-year-olds. Because the chances are that a lot of people would be only too glad to ram their selfish and conceited ideas down young, and impressionable children's throats, just because the ENDA would give them an opportunity to do so. | |
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| Is Freedom of Religion in danger From ENDA?
Posted: 11/7/2007 11:59:20 AM | I understand that coporations are an intentity in and unto themselves but I still don't believe that the governments job is to regislate my morals. If I want to be a hater, so be it. If I want to hire only blue eyed blondes in my business then I should be allowed to. So what if I run my business into the ground because I pass up on better employess because I don't agree with their religion, sex, hair color...whatever. It's my business. And if you want to take your business elsewhere because of my hiring practice than you should.
My argument is well thought out. You may disagree but don't assume I think the way I think because I don't know any better. I just believe that this country is run on the dollar and the quickest way to make a change is through money. Stop shopping at Walmart if you don't believe in the big box corporations. Ride your bike if you don't like the price of gas. Boycott corporations who discriminate if you don't believe in it.
We already have the power to envoke change...we don't need the government to legislate morality. Besides the fact that they dont have much of a track record when it comes to getting it right. | |
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| Is Freedom of Religion in danger From ENDA?
Posted: 8/17/2009 12:05:24 PM |
Weeee.. I get to defend the Islamics now. This should be interesting! Let me slip on my Professor cap again...
...yet none will denounce the violence of the danish cartoons. NONE. Not one sound-byte.
Ezra Levant and mark Steyn get charged with "human rights" violations for exercising their rights.
Idiotic terms like "islamophobia" are now in common use, as if criticizing the backward ignorant violent ideologies of the 7th century somehow entitles multiculturalists to diagnose and label people with a clinical condition.
What you just did in your "defending islam" is what is known in Islam as "al-kitman" or the lie of omission. Everything you say is true. Except it's not. If you want to pull the professor card, tell the kids what Wahabiism is. Tell them what the Sira really dictates. Lies of omission make you part of the problem. This is especially disturbing as you are female. Feminists will gladly read my profile and have no end to the editorials about how I am everything that's wrong about men, yet are deafening in their silence about women and islam.
Just look to the UK to see what your enabling does. Sharia law in a democracy? Are you KIDDING ME?
You really think that ignorant, violent, misogynistic oppressive ideology is worth defending? Go move to Saudi Arabia. Freedom FROM religion is far more important.
You can believe in all your imaginary sky daddies and I don't care. when you start saying I should lose liberties to preserve these, then you are part of the problem.
I really should check the forums more often, I know it's old, but it needed a response. | |
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