| vegan/vegetarians
Posted: 11/5/2007 3:47:29 AM | are there many vegans out there and do you find it difficult dating carnivores?
do you find that you have to explain yourself over and over about your choices (which I don't mind doing, but I would like to meet someone who has perhaps made the same choices).......
Are there meat eaters that avoid vegans/vegetarians????
just curious.....
and, for the record, no...I don't eat fish-->last time I checked, they have parents too.....=) | |
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| vegan/vegetarians
Posted: 11/5/2007 4:11:18 AM | I'm a meat eater but also have tried and like vegan foods (a few girls at work let me try stuff they've baked or made that is hard core vegan, no eggs, milk, etc), I wouldn't find it difficult to date a vegan. I respect other people's choices and what they do/like.
The meat eater shouldn't complain, its more meat for them. Unless you're trying to push your vegan ways onto the carnivore or vice versa, then I dont see how you're having an issue with it? So one person is eating meat and the other isnt? Theres worse things to have trouble with when you date someone.
If you can't watch someone eat meat or if you comment everytime they put a bite of cow into their mouth (or if you have it the other way around where someone can't stop bugging you to shove a piece of steak in your mouth), then I suggest you find someone that has like-eating habits as you. Don't date and think you're going to convert someone, thats a no no on both sides.
Good luck and happy fishing! | |
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| vegan/vegetarians
Posted: 11/5/2007 2:13:20 PM | | I wouldn't have a problem dating a vegetarian. Two of my daughters are vegetarians and it was no big deal doing meals. He might have a problem with me though as there is no way I am totally giving up my meat. Nothing better than a steak on the BBQ...mmmmm | |
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| vegan/vegetarians
Posted: 11/5/2007 3:15:14 PM | It wouldn't deter me from dating someone I really cared for if they were vegan or vegetarian, unless they were the type to make some crude comments about what I was eatingor shove they'd dining philosophies down my throat.
Like others have said, it's your choice to eat whatever way you want to. | |
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| vegan/vegetarians
Posted: 11/5/2007 4:28:08 PM | Vegan/Vegetarian North American Native word for lousy hunter lol
No Im not being racist that line was given to me by a North American Native. | |
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| vegan/vegetarians
Posted: 11/6/2007 2:08:10 AM | It would depend on the reasons for the vegan / vegetarianism. Health vs. moral reasons.
My philosophy is that I am more than happy to cook a vegetarian meal for someone but are they willing to cook a steak for me? Refusing to touch / cook meat for me is a non-verbal way of nagging me about my choices. | |
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| vegan/vegetarians
Posted: 11/6/2007 2:45:51 AM | I don't think not wanting to cook meat for moral reasons is about "nagging" you. If you wanted a steak, I mean, I would probably cook one for you, but it would make me uncomfortable--> would you really want to make me feel that way????
Also...just curious....about being a vegan-->health vs.moral.......is one more justifiable than the other??? | |
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| vegan/vegetarians
Posted: 11/6/2007 3:58:54 AM |
I don't think not wanting to cook meat for moral reasons is about "nagging" you. If you wanted a steak, I mean, I would probably cook one for you, but it would make me uncomfortable--> would you really want to make me feel that way????
Sounds like maybe you should stick to people who dont eat meat. Imagine, you're going to cook a meal each day for you and the guy down the road if you're commited to him, you are going to be expected to cook some sort of meat. Is that something you're really ready to do if you feel that strongly about even preparing meat to where you're uncomfortable all the time? If you're that uncomfortable even just cooking meat, then you shouldn't date people with carnivore habits. We like our meat, you can very rarely change that in a person. | |
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C.J.P.
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Joined: 10/22/2007
Msg: 9 | |
| vegan/vegetarians
Posted: 11/6/2007 7:21:10 PM | I'm a "flexitarian" and have no issues with vegetarians.
A past partner of mine, a vegetarian, opened my eyes to healthier eating habits. Though I haven't given up meat entirely, I have days where I'll deliberately not eat any.
I no longer buy most of what's sold as "food." (pre-packaged, pre-cooked, processed, preserved...) I've dropped 40lbs and feel fantastic.
To the carnivores reading this: if you haven't already, you need to experience really GOOD vegetarian cooking for yourselves. There are places in my city that make dishes with meat substitutes you'd swear were meat - Sacred Garden Thai comes to mind, if you're in Ottawa or Chu-Chai in Montreal.
A Harvey's veggie burger tastes basically the same as all their other burgers but doesn't ooze fat. A Subway veggie patty sub basically tastes like a chicken sandwich but costs a lot less. | |
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| vegan/vegetarians
Posted: 11/6/2007 7:23:07 PM | opps...I am expected to cook every night and it must be something HE likes?????
Maybe that is where I have gone wrong in the past.........
also...beware fast-food "veggie" burgers...usually fried with the regular burgars..therefore covered in animal fat......... | |
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| vegan/vegetarians
Posted: 11/7/2007 3:48:38 AM | | I wasn't implying you're going to cook every night for a man, i dont expect every woman to be a Mrs. Beaver Cleaver, it came out a bit wrong lol. I was trying to make you think about how many years you're going to be with the guy if you do end up with him, how many double meals being made, how many times when you do cook (or he cooks) that theres going to be meat involved with the guy. Some vegans I know are very much against meat to the point they wont touch it and one even gets a bit sick from the smell. | |
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| vegan/vegetarians
Posted: 11/7/2007 5:14:52 AM | | hmm....I don' t think I am quite as anal as that.....although, if a gentelman ordered veal or lamb, I probably wouldn't go on another date.......nor would I permit either to be cooked in my kitchen....maybe I am more anal than I thought.......lol....... but I don't think I could date someone who hunted for sport or wore fur either......I am beginning to think there are no straight men who love animals and vote green...... | |
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| vegan/vegetarians
Posted: 11/7/2007 9:16:30 AM | I've been vegetarian for about a year and I've experienced great side benefits: Feeling healthier, more energetic, lost some weight (and really without even trying), but the best side benefit by far for me is getting back into cooking from scratch and making the effort to produce a really great meal. I extend that to include meat in the meal if the person or people I'm cooking for eat it, no biggie. It's all about the experience : good food, conversation paired with great friends or family ...
Thanks C.I.P for the restaurant suggestion in Ottawa -- I'm going to be checking that one out! | |
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| vegan/vegetarians
Posted: 11/7/2007 9:47:24 AM |
I am beginning to think there are no straight men who love animals and vote green......
I am a straight animal loving green voter.
I am not a big meat eater, but I don't see me ever giving it up. | |
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| vegan/vegetarians
Posted: 11/7/2007 4:58:16 PM | Please forgive me for editing for effect 
although, if a gentelman ordered veal or lamb, I probably wouldn't go on another date.......nor would I permit either to be cooked in my kitchen........... but I don't think I could date someone who hunted for sport or wore fur either......
I personally don't believe in hunting (or fishing for that matter) for sport, BUT, if the animal in question is used in it's entirety, then I have no problem with hunting.
I will wear fur AND leather AND wool (not necessarily at the same time  ) I do NOT believe in waste. Use one part? Use ALL parts.
I am beginning to think there are no straight men who love animals and vote green......
Straight? ... yes
Love animals? ... yes, especially barbequed
Vote green? ... Well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad | |
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| Eat Meat!
Posted: 11/8/2007 7:50:35 AM | I find the vegan lifestyle choice difficult to fathom at best and I certainly would consider it a huge red flag. In my experience, vegan's carry this chip on their shoulder about eating animals and using animal based products. Maybe it is a function of a misguided socialization that seems to affect a part of our culture these days. Anyway, from what I understand, a vegan diet seems to require substitutes for all the stuff normal people get from eating meat and fish and eggs. In my opinion, it means going through a lot of extra effort to produce the same results. It says something about the person if they have difficulty facing the reality of being human to the point of denying that humans are meat eaters.
Having stated all that, I would note I've eaten plenty of vegan dishes and I'd say a lot of them make great side dishes -- served with some dead animal bits on the plate. Stand alone, the dishes come across as... well... lacking in meat ;)
Several responses have already addressed the issue of separate meals. I don't mind eating non-meat meals here and there but that definitely implies eating meat here and there. To me this is a one-way issue and that's where part of the problem lies. I don't mind not eating meat for a meal, but the other is going to have a problem with eating meat for a meal or that meal will consist of two separate dishes, which still points up the disparity. If something as basic as diet is in dispute, I can see a lot of other things cropping up too. It seems clear as well that the OP, as an example of a vegan mindset, has a problem with fur or leather. That puts several bits of clothing I own into conflict -- like the pair of rabbit fur lined leather gloves I own :o
Since this opportunity exists, let me also take issue with a position I've noticed reiterated here a couple of times. Exactly how does anyone see a vegan diet as being healthier than eating a balanced diet of all that good stuff humans are supposed to consume to be healthy? I find it impossible to understand the twisted rationalizing necessary to come to the conclusion that eating only vegan-approved stuff is healthier for a human when it is well known that animal products are, not only a normal but a necessary, part of a human diet to maintain health. Why would substitutes, to compensate for a lack of animal products, be considered a healthier choice? Obviously, in my opinion, they are not. To me, this position is akin to arguing that taking multi-vitamin tablets is a better choice than ensuring a proper daily intake of recommended vitamins through reasonable dietary choices. At best, those tablets constitute a substitute to compensate for a poor diet. I think the same is true for vegan dietary choices.
In the end, veganism seems to me to be more a political choice than a choice base on healthy living or morality as such. It is not the case that caring about the environment requires not eating animals. Frankly the logical connection utterly escapes me. Likewise, there is no logical connection between "loving" animals and not eating animals, or hunting and loving animals.
Perhaps the truth is that in a world that has so many people to feed, and the relatively greater cost of producing meat products, veganism is really a political-economic ploy to get individuals to accept "green" plant product substitutes for "red" animal products -- masking the truth in false claims of healthiness and morality. It also wouldn't surprise me that agribusinesses find plant food more profitable to produce. So I can't help suspecting that vegans are really just suckers for a direction the business and political elite want society to accept -- willingly being played and not even realizing it. This wouldn't be the first time :D | |
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| Eat Meat!
Posted: 11/8/2007 3:39:59 PM | I choose not to eat meat or animal products because I find it abhorent to eat animals...plain and simple....that doesn't involve a chip on my shoulder....it isn't political.......the same way it is taboo not to eat human flesh.....I feel the same way about animals......why is that so hard to fathom???? It really isn't anything bigger than that......why are my eating habits such a huge red flag for you???? Hmmm....And I don't agree that we are natural meat eaters......why are heart disease and obesity so prevelant? I have yet to meet an overweight vegan.......or one with clogged arteries.....
I don't think I am being "played" any more than those who choose to give thier money to places like McDonalds or companies like Coca Cola who are poisoning our children and causing an obesity epidemic......
that being said...I have made my choices for ME.......for my own reasons......I don't understand why my choices...(that have no effect on you) brought about such a negative response from someone....assumptions about me and those who have made similar choices......a huge red flag for me! | |
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| Eat Meat!
Posted: 11/8/2007 4:42:25 PM | ......I don't understand why my choices...(that have no effect on you) brought about such a negative response from someone....assumptions about me and those who have made similar choices......a huge red flag for me!
Why are you taking it personally? I don't think he made any comments directly at you, although they seem to have hit a nerve. He is stating his view on Vegan/Vegetarianism. Last time I checked the forums are for communicating views on different topics.
No surprise I agree with some of what he posted. As humans, we ARE equipped to eat and digest meat. To say that meat is the cause of heart disease and obesity, please?!. Yes, meat may contribute if a well balanced diet isn't followed, but meat is not the cause.
Many Vegans/Vegetarians suffer from serious deficiencies in their systems too, so don't think it's the only way to being healthy. It might be your way. I hope it works.
Personally, I can't see myself ever dating one again myself. My past experience was that the strick dietary choice was also and indication of other obsessive traits. | |
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| Eat Meat!
Posted: 11/14/2007 8:17:32 PM | It's not a big issue. I used to live with a chick that was and still is mostly vegan. She eats chicken and fish here and there, but no beef or pork.
Not because of beliefs or feelings. She found the additives in a lot of the meat would affect her badly.
It didn't affect much other than what gets cooked for supper and what gets bought at the supermarket. In fact it's a lot cheaper to eat that way too. | |
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Bona x
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Joined: 6/11/2007
Msg: 20 | |
| Eat Meat!
Posted: 11/21/2007 4:23:21 PM | Ralph42 and others
I am quite in agreement with some of your postings but not entirely.
As info I am relatively new to the vegan lifestyle and have these observations to make.
1.You are right it does take a little more effort to prepare food for the vegan.This is because vegans represent only about 1 to 2 percent of the population.You can't be a vegan and realistically expect to be catered to in our society.It boils down to demand,vegans represent 0% demand in the eyes of most marketing people.
2.You are right in that many vegans are obnoxious about their dietary beliefs and what others do to animals.These types probably irritate me as much as they apparently irritate you.I believe everyone has the right to their beliefs but no one has the right to belittle or criticise others for theirs whether they are vegan or not.
This would be my opinion as far as dating as well.
3.There is no question about whether a vegan diet is healthier,difficult for some to live with but healthier. The reason for this is fat. All animal protein contains fat,some less fatty than others but still contains fat.Some also contains cholesterol and note that fat turns to cholesterol in your body. No vegetable contains cholesterol,there may be some fat in certain plant foods,most notably olives and avocados.
The body with high levels of fat and cholesterol is in danger of heart attack and stroke.
This is a medically proven fact.I wouldn't think anyone would argue that point.
Yes ,we are a meat eating society as a general rule, but what has happened overtime is that the amount of meat has risen in our diets and consequently so has the amount of fat. In the "olden days" the meat we ate was what we had hunted,consequently the meat portion of our meals was a much smaller percent than it is today.In fact we ate a whole lot less then on average than we do now.Just notice that the average height and weight for men and women is considerably more now than what it was years ago.
Anyway,because we are eating more meat now , the percentage of fat in our diets has risen from about 10% to approaching 40%. We think we are eating a balanced diet when in fact our diets are out of balance ie not enough veggies and too much meat.
We used to eat some meat with our veggies, now we eat some veggies with our meat.
As to why I became a vegan,it was a matter of health. By becoming a vegan my cholesterol and triglycerides have fallen rapidly in a relatively short period of time.I have lost weight,and my diabetes has come under control. I have no political agenda as far as animals are concerned and I certainly would not try to convince anyone to change their lifestyles in the way I have. I will only say it works for me.
Anyone that is interested in improving their health should read one of Dr Dean Ornish's books; Reversing Heart Disease or, Eat more and Weigh Less .Both present options for a healthier lifestyle. | |
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| Veggies... Good!
Posted: 11/21/2007 4:58:16 PM | In all fairness, I'd agree that many folks eat too much period, but particularly meat.
I certainly would not try to convince anyone to change their lifestyles in the way I have. I will only say it works for me.
My initial response to your position was going to be that maybe I'd consider dating you even if you were a vegan... LOL! I checked the profile. Okay, so my revised response would be that such an attitude expressed by a vegan woman would certainly cause me to drop that huge red flag.
As an aside, I still would bicker about the claim to inherently higher healthiness of vegan choices. Meat is a part of a human diet. It isn't as great a part as some might wish, but it is still a part. | |
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| vegan/vegetarians
Posted: 11/22/2007 2:58:55 PM | Not only do fish have parents, so do plants.
I could never be a vegetarian, because I enjoy meat. I have friends who are vegetarians, and some who just don't eat red meat. I cook accordingly when they attend. | |
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| vegan/vegetarians
Posted: 11/22/2007 5:48:44 PM | Fish have parents ... Oh brother. Yes, can't you see how a fish, after laying its eggs, and the male dropping its sperm, take care of their youngin's until they are mature enough to fend for themselves? Most fish leave their eggs on their own right after mating. Some do take some time to let their fish babies grow but usually leave the nesting area after a couple of weeks, leaving their 'babies' to grow up by themselves. Just as common are fish who predate on their own young. So please stop with the whole "I don't eat fish because they have babies".
I don't mind if someone is vegan or vegitarian. That's their choice, but don't look down upon anyone who eats meat and play the whole moral card please. If you look at the human jaw, it is made to accomodate a variety of different types of food. Humans are omnivores in nature. That's why we have grinding teeth for grains and veggies but CANINE teeth for meat. You enjoy eating roots and berries and tofu forever, good for you. Just don't spew a PETA laced diatribe about how wrong eating meat or fish is.
I would date a vegan or vegitarian. We could go to restaurants, order 2 steak dinners, and she can eat the veggies and I'll eat her share of the steak. works for me!!! Of course, the lovely young lady who I am dating loves eating meat too. Which is cool. | |
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| vegan/vegetarians
Posted: 11/22/2007 7:48:19 PM | Okay I have been reading your comments and the answer is no no no no no. Every time it’s the same problem I eat meat love meat I don’t have a problem eating anything that had a mother. I do not criticise you for not wanting to do it it’s your choice you do what ever you want but don’t impose on me your beliefs. That is just like people that are fanatic religious to the point that if other religions come into play then they are wrong. Just won’t work.
Honey stick with your own. BTW some plants have female gender and male gender therefore mothers and fathers how are them apples lol. | |
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| vegan/vegetarians
Posted: 11/23/2007 5:20:40 AM | I mentioned that fish have parents because many people think that vegetarians eat fish....which isn't true...vegetarians don't eat any animals (and fish are animals)---to clarify---> I don't eat fish because they are animals....is that better????
I don't believe I have ever imposed my way of life on anyone.....people ask me questions and I give them answers...nor would I...I don't think I am a fanatic either...(I don't understand how you would get that impression---I am no more "fanatical" than those who speak out about how they would never give up eating meat)...I don't even believe that meat-eaters are going to hell....LOL
I never said I look down upon anyone for what they eat or don't eat....and I never stated that it was "wrong"...I clearly did state that my lifestyle was my personal choice....that was all.....I don't recall mentioning PETA.....hmmm....I was only curious as to how meat-eaters felt about dating vegetarians/vegans........ | |
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