| What is the reasoning for clothing our nakedness?
Posted: 11/5/2007 8:28:55 AM | I am trying to understand this reasoning and failing. It makes no sense to me. At what point did the naked human body become a sin and why is it viewed as such? We all have the same things, just different shapes, colors and sizes. Why are humans so ashamed of their bodies?
It even states in the bible that man sought to cover his shame. If Yahwah created humans naked and after eating the forbidden fruit they realized they were naked and grew ashamed, then wouldnt that mean that Yahwah made a mistake in creating humans naked? | |
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| What is the reasoning for clothing our nakedness?
Posted: 11/5/2007 8:37:38 AM | | First off you have to be niave to thing the forbidden fruit was something they ate. It was the fact they found out they could have sex for pleasue insted of for procreating. So after finding this out they were ashamed of themselves when god looked upon them and they covered up with figleaves. Now that being said clothes are absolutly nessesary in some places to keep from sunburn or frostbite that being the most obvious. And only shallow people who are shamed are afraid of being nude. | |
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| What is the reasoning for clothing our nakedness?
Posted: 11/5/2007 8:40:27 AM | | tsk tsk.. lets not talk down to people. I have not given my views on the forbidden fruit for that is not what this thread is about. I stated what the bible said and then asked my questions. But thank you for your input. | |
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| What is the reasoning for clothing our nakedness?
Posted: 11/5/2007 8:46:19 AM | Lol! I have long thought about this question and it only make an ounce of sense if I consider it like this: apart for my own reasons for keeping clothes on, the shame of being naked because one should feel that way isn't one of them.
I think the Adam and Eve story is symbolic on many levels... the sudden appearance, or awareness of nakedness is a way of saying... "Go and hide yourself away" just as a thief would 'hide away' from the authorities, the fact that he/she committed such a crime. Thus, they would be “hiding their shame”.
Literally, if God made them naked from the outset there is no shame in that, especially since they were man and wife… so any shame is the crime of taking from the tree… if that’s literally what it was, not in their nudity. :)
It was the fact they found out they could have sex for pleasue insted of for procreating.
So we were not supposed to have pleasure in making love???
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| What is the reasoning for clothing our nakedness?
Posted: 11/5/2007 8:49:57 AM |
Literally, if God made them naked from the outset there is no shame in that, especially since they were man and wife… so any shame is the crime of taking from the tree… if that’s literally what it was, not in their nudity. :)
I can see this.. but then why is clothing still worn? We did not do that 'crime' so why do we cover ourselves? Well, besides the obvious 'holy chit it's cold!!' or simply being embarassed at the thought of others seeing our naked form. | |
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| What is the reasoning for clothing our nakedness?
Posted: 11/5/2007 8:56:03 AM | | WE are naturally naked... clothes are only there for protection and the scriptures would say that we all to have to wear them to hide our inbreed guilt/sin from Adam and Eve... it's rubbish I know, but that's the mentality of the bible and those who believe such nonsense. :) | |
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| What is the reasoning for clothing our nakedness?
Posted: 11/5/2007 9:03:05 AM | Survival, mainly.
Mankind has, in the scope of its history, only very recently come to a state where our survival is all but guaranteed. For the overwhelming majority of our collective history as a species, we have had to adapt to our environment in order to live and perpetuate ourselves: any individual who was foolish enough to be in the nude persistently would find it difficult to survive almost anywhere on Earth. Even tropical and sub-tropical nomadic tribes to this day have some form of clothing.
Additionally, it became a cultural icon. How one dressed defined what culture one belonged in: sexuality would emerge from this trend, as even today, certain clothing styles are seen as more sexual than even the naked body.
Modern Man isn't, after all, a separate species from his forebears: he is the sum total of all that has come before. The idea that nudity is inappropriate is not a new one.
As for myself: I do not feel the need to display the one part of me that is guaranteed to worsen over time: looks. My body is mine to do with as I see fit, sure, but I do not think parading around with the Boys hanging out would be a reasonable course of action.
Also, I live in Colorado, and it gets COLD here. :-P | |
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| What is the reasoning for clothing our nakedness?
Posted: 11/5/2007 9:13:36 AM | Hi OP:)
To tell you the truth, I've never personally understood this shame we're supposed to have for our bodies, naked or otherwise. Why are my breasts treated any differently than my arms or my knees? Don't we all have nipples? And bums? And bellies and cellulite...er....well SOME have cellulite...or so I've been told anyway...haha!!! 
Nor have I ever understood the shame and secrecy that surrounds our sexuality, or our bodily functions, for that matter. I just don't get it. And it isn't because of the way I was raised. Hell no! My parents both locked the door when they would use the washroom, where in my house, I have problems remembering to even shut the door, even when there's company over...haha!!
My granddaughter and I often have our most profound conversations when one of us is using the bathroom....talk about having a captive audience....haha!! 
And she often comes and sits with me in the morning when I'm taking my shower and getting ready for work...hey at least she has no illusion of what a 50 year old woman looks like...poor kid!! 
But seriously though, it's my personal belief that if we were more open and less afraid to just be ourselves, our kids wouldn't grow up to have all these false expectations of what their body is supposed to look like. As it is now, they only get to see what they're being fed on TV and in magazines...and I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I certainly don't look like any to them....dang!!
And what irks me to no end, is that they'll often put a "R" rating on a movie that dares show a little nudity, but might be a good story just the same, but they have no quirms showing a movie with an idiotic theme with tons of violence without any restrictions!!
As far as religion is concerned and what role it's played in all of that....hmm let's see, what's that old saying again? Oh yeah...I think it goes something like this..."best to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubts"???
Yeah well, I think that it's best if I keep my big mouth shut....for once...haha!! 
Love and peace to all....
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| What is the reasoning for clothing our nakedness?
Posted: 11/5/2007 9:17:27 AM |
Trippy - The idea that nudity is inappropriate is not a new one.
Now the question I have is why is nudity inappropriate? I understand the need for clothes to adapt to our enviroments. You wouldnt catch me out in the arctic naked, however, why do most humans view nudity as wrong. | |
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| What is the reasoning for clothing our nakedness?
Posted: 11/5/2007 9:22:09 AM | It's hard to fight against countless thousands of years of behavioral evolution and survival mechanisms, for one.
For two, human beings cannot function as Hive-mentality creatures: we need our privacy, our own thoughts, feelings, and coping strategies, designed to ensure that our individual consciousness remains separate from others. It plays into the fundamental dichotomy of the human animal: being our need to both feel like we are a part of something as well as feel unique and special.
Simply put: if we are always naked, we literally have nothing to hide behind: no distinction to set us apart from the other naked folk. Metaphorically, we lose all our walls and masks, and this would be catastrophic for the human ego.
Some people, of course, take this too far. That's humans for you. Buncha crazies. :-P | |
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| What is the reasoning for clothing our nakedness?
Posted: 11/5/2007 9:39:16 AM | There are a great many Tribal Culture that did not regard the naked body as shameful.
Nor did they regard sexuality as shameful.
Shame was introduced to these cultures as the Western world colonized other parts of the world.
Captain Cook wrote of Hawaiian men and woman, surfing naked without any shame. Other Polynesian cultures were the same way. There were few taboos on sexuality and nudity untill the arrival of the Christian missionaries.
For the most part it is patriarchal societies that placed restrictions on sexuality. | |
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| What is the reasoning for clothing our nakedness?
Posted: 11/5/2007 9:44:41 AM |
There were few taboos on sexuality and nudity untill the arrival of the Christian missionaries.
I wouldn't say there were few taboos on sexuality, they were simply different than the european ones.
Plus, where the hell would we shove our many pens and pencils and paper clips and pennies without our pockets??
And what would I clip my cell phone t-
OUCH! No thanks!  | |
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| What is the reasoning for clothing our nakedness?
Posted: 11/5/2007 11:28:19 AM | Trippy Hare said, "I wouldn't say there were few taboos on sexuality, they were simply different than the european ones."
Good point. To look at the ancient Greek artwork, for example (yes, I realize I'm jumping cultures here), one would think they're really open about nudity AND sexuality. Nope. The remarkably consistent teaching among their various philosophers was that (hetero) sex was for procreation and that pleasure in general was a terrible negative for one's character and sprituality, the greater pleasure=greater negative. (In traditional areas of Greece, if you compliment a baby the mother will practically demand you find a fault with it or it will draw bad luck. Parallel concept.) The philosophers and religious folk sometimes engaged in homosexuality, not because they had that desire, but specifically because it was repugnant, even mutilating themselves for the purpose (Cybele, Diana of Ephesus...) "The Judeo-Christian scriptures" get blamed for a lot of anti-sexual attitudes that actually came from there and were absorbed into popular "Christian" church culture. The Genesis story was sometimes claimed to be a parable about sex for precisely that reason.
But as it actually reads, the story has
A. Creation of man and woman as the crowning act of the physical creation,
B. The frank admiration of them as such, with "God made them male and female" with "And God looked upon everything He had made, and Behold, it was very good." And the comment that they were naked and not ashamed.
C. Then after disobeying and taking the forbidden fruit (which I'm contending is NOT an allegorical ID for sex), they suddenly have Shame and Blame ("she made me do it") controlling them. So the wrong choice is portrayed as how evil comes into our minds and takes over, destroying the simple honesty and joy that the Creator intended. Including being comfortable in our own skin and sexuality.
I can see some practical reasons for clothing - cold, sunburn, power tools. But the idea that there is something wrong with our bodies is not one of them. | |
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| What is the reasoning for clothing our nakedness?
Posted: 11/5/2007 11:53:20 AM | I stick to discerning this in the spiritual and not in the physical.
The nature that came upon Adam and Eve when they rebelled was not the same nature that they were created with. Thier action of rebellion is what now made them focused on thier self, or 'egocentric'. Prior to this they had no self seeking, self glorifying nature or egocentric characteristic. So when they came into the presence of God who is selfless, thier selfishness became exposed and thier newly implanted egocentric nature became the sole focus and their concern. The reality that they were now egocentric and focused only on themselves and thier own needs, is what separated them from God's perfect love. The pure concept of love is about not seeking after one's own glory and selfish desires, but is about putting others first and denying the need to be egocentric.
Thier are a lot of spiritual realities that took place in this scene, one of them being that it was God who clothed them and took away the shame of thier nakedness.... | |
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| What is the reasoning for clothing our nakedness?
Posted: 11/5/2007 12:00:55 PM | Since no one responded to my post, and feel free or not as the case may be, I'm still contemplating on the figurative nakedness and shame deal.
Meanwhile, taking Genesis at face value, it still makes no sense...
If God saw nakedness as something obviously acceptable from the beginning, what knowledge/awareness came upon Adam and Eve to support their feelings of shame?
And how does nakedness, acceptable in God's eyes, suddenly become something to hide from?
As for anyone believing sexual pleasure derived from procreating is a sin… those people should be categorized insane! | |
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| What is the reasoning for clothing our nakedness?
Posted: 11/5/2007 12:10:59 PM | Trippy according to Milton Diamond PhD U of Hawaii,
there were more restrictions on food and diet then sexuality in pre contact Hawaii and most other polynesian cultures. men and woman did eat separate and there were some food restrictions on woman. such as not eating pork. A woman eating pork could result in death.
Masturbation by per adolescent teens was considered normal. Both young men and woman were would not be looked down on for any homosexual experimentation or activity. Young men and young woman were excepted to have intercourse at Puberty. Marriage we we know it did not exist. Neither did the concept of an extramarital sex. Women had little or no restrictions on their sexuality. Nudity was not equated to ones sexuality.
This isa lot more then just different. | |
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| What is the reasoning for clothing our nakedness?
Posted: 11/5/2007 12:14:53 PM |
And how does nakedness, acceptable in God's eyes, suddenly become something to hide from?
skypoetone
I was attempting to answer your question, but let me try again...
Thier act of rebellion and disobediense implanted a new nature in Adam and Eve, it wasn't about physical nakedness in itself, it was about now being self centered. Seeing themselves as naked was a quality of thier new nature of now being self centered and concerned only about how they appeared before God. Thier nakedness is meant as a spiritual term...and it is demonstrating that they now saw themselves as unfit and ashamed of who they were. It is because they are now self centered that they even had the ability to see themselves as naked...before they had the egocentric nature, they were not focused on how they appeared before God.... For this very reason of people now being self focused is what causes people to strive to become acceptable to God through religion, because they are ashamed of thier spiritual nakedness. | |
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| What is the reasoning for clothing our nakedness?
Posted: 11/5/2007 12:34:11 PM | Thanks consigliere...
Sign posts are always better with names on them :)
So we are saying the act of taking it upon one's self to become more knowledgeable is a sin? Self-centred? What are we without knowledge? How do we know what is good from bad? Right from wrong? Experience from inexperience?
Things to be ashamed of?
How does one not see themself as they are by being naked?
Suddenly having to change your appearance by clothing yourself would become unnatural and the shame would be hiding what was natural, not the nakedness... this much is clear. | |
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| What is the reasoning for clothing our nakedness?
Posted: 11/5/2007 12:52:19 PM |
Things to be ashamed of?
How does one not see themself as they are by being naked?
skypoetone
When you apply this with the knowledge of good and evil, then it makes all the difference. Like Artz posted earlier in regards to the society that treated nakedness as the normal lifestyle. If you placed one of these people in a 'civilized' society and they carried on in the same way, it wouldn't be long before they discovered that it wasn't the norm in the civilized society they were now living in....and they would now have the knowledge of good and evil and would be aware of thier nakedness.....
The problem is not the fact of being naked in the physical sense...the problem is now man has become egocentric, and this is the root for every evil we see expressed in the world today. | |
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| What is the reasoning for clothing our nakedness?
Posted: 11/5/2007 2:17:11 PM | I love the fact that people are answering. There has been many interesting theories put forth.
However, consigliere31, I was discussing physical nudity. Not spiritual. Why do we as humans prescribe to the belief that nudity is wrong and must be covered? | |
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| What is the reasoning for clothing our nakedness?
Posted: 11/5/2007 2:21:37 PM | Egocentricity and nakedness are worlds apart to me. Good and evil? The lack of good is what's evil... if you're on a nudist beach there is no evil and it doesn't take ego to disrobe... it goes with the scenery.
We are saying that a clotheless person is now the root of evil? I think I need enlightening here. | |
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| What is the reasoning for clothing our nakedness?
Posted: 11/5/2007 2:25:18 PM |
However, consigliere31, I was discussing physical nudity. Not spiritual. Why do we as humans prescribe to the belief that nudity is wrong and must be covered?
Not the way I read your OP Freya73, you specifically directed the question to the garden of eden experience with Adam and Eve and went as far as to make it a spiritual question by bringing Yahweh into the equation....If it was meant to be specifically addressed as to why humans considered nakedness wrong then you are dealing with issues concernig society norms, and not biblical originations... | |
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| What is the reasoning for clothing our nakedness?
Posted: 11/5/2007 2:34:27 PM |
Not the way I read your OP Freya73, you specifically directed the question to the garden of eden experience with Adam and Eve and went as far as to make it a spiritual question by bringing Yahweh into the equation....If it was meant to be specifically addressed as to why humans considered nakedness wrong then you are dealing with issues concernig society norms, and not biblical originations...
Ok.. the reference to the bible is because, people are taught in church that being naked is a sin. Preachers use Genesis as a teaching tool as to why we cover our nakedness. Therefore, when asking my question, I brought up the fact that it is taught in churches that being naked is wrong. Why is this? What is wrong with the human body that we must cover it up? (Not bringing into the discussion the obvious reason of protection from the elements)
Perhaps that poses the question better? | |
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