| Smoke-free crusaders may now be at your door
Posted: 11/11/2007 6:48:07 AM | After winning a statewide indoor ban, anti-smoking activists might go after apartments and condos.
By Mark Brunswick and Curt Brown, Star Tribune
Last update: November 10, 2007 – 9:49 PM
Fresh from their success winning a statewide smoking ban in bars and restaurants, Minnesota's anti-smoking advocates are ready to zero in on where you live.
One anti-smoking group will kick-start a campaign this week to encourage landlords to outlaw smoking in their buildings. While the program would be purely voluntary for now, some communities might follow two California cities by considering broader ordinances that would apply to multi-unit dwellings.
Smoke-free groups are also considering pushes to restrict drivers who smoke with kids in their cars, park users who smoke and even cigarette-dangling youth-sport coaches. Still, condos and apartments appear to be the next battleground in the state's smoking wars.
It's part of a national trend aimed at snuffing out those who light up. Chicago can now fine people up to $500 for smoking within 15 feet of beaches and playgrounds. Albuquerque nixed smoking at the zoo. Davis County, Utah, has extended its ban to golf courses and cemeteries.
Outdoor smoking bans grow
The number of cities and counties that prohibit smoking in outdoor areas such as parks, stadiums and outdoor cafes has jumped from 30 in 1999 to 1,124 today, according to the American Nonsmokers' Rights Foundation.
In Minnesota, groups still have many millions of dollars from their tobacco settlement warchests to combat the harm of tobacco and secondhand smoke -- and many ideas about how to do it.
"We're getting a lot of calls from tenants saying that they are getting second-hand smoke getting into the living unit from somewhere else in the apartment building," said Brittany McFadden, director of the Live Smoke Free campaign. "They are not letting anyone smoke in their unit but smoke is drifting in from other people's units, balconies or patios. They are getting sick from their own living space and there's not a lot they can do to protect themselves."
The program will focus on apartment buildings in the seven-county metro area and seeks to educate landlords about the benefits of adopting smoke-free policies.
Big Brother or deterrent?
At the 58-unit Talheim Apartments in Chaska, residents have had six months to brace for the building-wide ban that goes into effect Saturday.
"Some residents have complained: 'What's next?' But one person told me he's so glad because he's been trying for years to quit and this might help," said Sheila Knox, Talheim's apartment manager. "I'll be out sniffing in the hallways."
While the statewide law prohibits smoking in common areas of apartment buildings, there is no provision regarding individual apartment units. Earlier this year, two California cities -- Belmont and Temecula -- passed ordinances for smoke-free rental unit housing.
Some local smokers interviewed on Friday thought government was overstepping its bounds by shifting bans inside the confines of their homes. Others shrugged and said they expect the smoke-free screw will only be tightened.
"It's ridiculously Big Brother to go and tell me what I can and can't do in my own home," said Brian Van Sickle, 32, of Minneapolis.
"I can see not allowing smoking in cars with kids, but going into your own space if the landlord doesn't mind? That's too far," said Barb Jensen, another Minneapolis renter.
Electrician Mike Riggs of Becker, who was taking a cigarette break while helping build a 200-unit apartment building in Minneapolis, said fewer fires might be ignited by smokers falling asleep. "But I don't see smoke drifting through an inch-and-a-half of drywall," he said.
http://www.startribune.com/462/story/1542459.html | |
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| Smoke-free crusaders may now be at your door
Posted: 11/11/2007 8:29:19 AM | I think the anti-smoking zealots are going to far.
Here in Ottawa starting,I believe in January,it will be against a bylaw to smoke outdoors at a bus stop.Smokers will have to be something like 15 feet away.
An outdoor bus stop is nothing more than a metal pole with a sign.There is plenty of room for everybody,and there is ALWAYS enough of a breeze to disperse smoke.If a non smoker chooses to stand next to a smoker and then objects,they are obviously looking for something to gripe about.Plus,don't complain about a cigarette while waiting for a diesel smoke belching bus along a road with carbon monoxide car exhaust everywhere.I suppose now that workplaces,buses,bars,stadiums,patios,cabs,transit stations,stores,parking garages,bingo halls,etc,etc,etc, are smokefree,non smokers must now punish smokers for daring to smoke at bus stops and soon their own homes.
As for smoking in a rental unit,if I can smoke in it now,I should be permitted to continue.If it is a new building,or the unit is vacant,then simply make it a term of the lease that smoking is prohibitted.Easy.Existing buildings will eventually be smoke free,but tenants who smoke should be free to do so until they move on.Non smokers want their rights respected.Smokers rights should be respected as well.
As far as I know,cigarettes are still a legal product.If I smoke,it is my right to choose to do so in the privacy of my own home.
My point is that sanctimonious,self righteous people who wish to dictate to others how to live their lives infuriate me.If they find something distasteful everyone must abide by their way of thinking.
By the way,I quit smoking years ago. | |
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| Smoke-free crusaders may now be at your door
Posted: 11/11/2007 8:56:35 AM | The anti-smoking zealots are an extreme example of the great North American neurosis; we can't deal with death. It's essentially a stranger to us.
Death also offends our sense of power. We feel that we have the power to control everything, if not now, then in the future. And yet we still die despite all our power and wealth.
So our fear manifests itself in strange ways like with zealous anti-smoking. It's a way to convince ourselves that we can avoid death.
Personally, I hope they make tobacco illegal. It will do wonderful things to the demand and the price. I'll be rich!  | |
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| Smoke-free crusaders may now be at your door
Posted: 11/11/2007 9:13:15 AM | | Yeh, it's getting ridiculous alright.... while I hope to give quitting another chance, I still think that the smoking ban has been blown out of proportion... | |
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| Smoke-free crusaders may now be at your door
Posted: 11/11/2007 10:49:13 AM |
There's a lot more evidence against drunk drivers than second hand smoke. I'd like to see that crusade get the same momentum. I have lived in Minnesota and can assure you drunk driving in apartments and condos is already banned. | |
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| Smoke-free crusaders may now be at your door
Posted: 11/11/2007 3:16:19 PM | | Slippery road to facism here. The nannie state needs to die because the goverment job is not to police adults doing legal habits. The goverment needs less tax dollars so they can't hire more thugs to watch everything from smokers, to farmers to see they are distrubting imagary delusional dangers. Well, it is disgusting these some of these liberals, and consversatives that think people need the goverment to teach them about the danger of vices, no, no , no. California almost like Cuba just about with one million regulations that make no sense. Please, Please read about the canididate views in detail before you vote for them and look who is contributing money to thier election campagain. | |
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| Smoke-free crusaders may now be at your door
Posted: 11/11/2007 4:02:22 PM | Blame big pharma .
With a wonderful opportunity to increase sales geometrically with any smoking ban in place, they are huge supporters of this behind the scenes.
But there was another cause for the ban aside from misguided Blairite euphoria: a major lobbying effort. And a major player in the campaign for a smoking ban was Pfizer, writing cheques in support of a ban. There is a commercial reason for Pfizer being in favour of a smoking ban. By reducing the places people can smoke, life is made uncomfortable for smokers, leading to more people wanting to give up. Pfizer sells Nicorette which helps people quit. Smoking bans mean higher Pfizer profits.
Forest, the Freedom Organisation for the Right to Enjoy Smoking Tobacco, describes Pfizer (sarcastically) as its "friends", and Forest's site gives some clues as to Pfizer's involvement. Pfizer keeps funding events at party conferences that promote bans on smoking. After one such "debate" in 2004, Forest director Simon Clark complained that Pfizer refused to have anyone on the panel who was against a ban - so all three speakers toed the same line. Another Forest columnist refers to how:
this most altruistic of companies is... sponsoring a one-day conference in Liverpool entitled - wait for it - 'The Smoke Free City: how to improve health, business, productivity and city image by taking positive action to free your city of tobacco smoke'.
http://www.samizdata.net/blog/archives/008274.html
Suddenly, with all the funding and publicity behind them a small "grassroots" organization becomes a powerful force.
Now, is that (in the end) a bad thing ?
Not really, less smokers are a positive on the balance books -and that's from an occasional (cough cough) user of tobacco.  | |
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| Smoke-free crusaders may now be at your door
Posted: 11/11/2007 4:51:30 PM | What I am about to post, may be slightly off topic, but is shows just how stupid a system for anti smoking can be.
In Canada, my country, it is illegal for teenagers under 16?(not sure if it is 16 or 18) to purchase cigarettes.
In the highschool I work at, I would say, roughly 5 to 10% of teenagers smoke. Now, get this, most of them are under 16 years old.
So, it is illegal for them to purchase cigarettes but not illegal for them to actually smoke. (In order to smoke, you need cigarettes and by ricochet you have to get the cigarettes from somewhere... It reminds me of the song, There's a hole in the bucket, dear Martha, dear Martha, there's a hole in the bucket dear Martha, there's a hole... etc etc.)
At our school, students CANNOT smoke on the school premises. It is illegal and they can have fines for up to, I believe 300$ or more. They are fined more if they are caught "giving" a cigarette to an other student.
So, during recess, a bunch of students having a nicotine fit, literally run outside to the public sidewalk to smoke. Many of them are under 16 years old and they are allowed to smoke on the side walk because it is a "public area". Move a foot on the school yard and you are susceptible for a fine.
Do you see the nonsense here?
Also, on many instances, the parents GIVE them the cigarettes!
Just a thought here... They want to ban public places where adults smoke???
Isn't the sidewalk a public place. If this law is active, where will the students be able to smoke??? See the nonsense here...
I am tired... I hope I got my idea across.
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| Smoke-free crusaders may now be at your door
Posted: 11/11/2007 5:06:10 PM | I live in a smoke free building now. I go outside to smoke, which is kind of inconvienient for me. ah well...someday I may have my own place. Being a huge believer in the sanctity of the home and privacy, the gov't can BITE ME if they try enforcing a no-smoking ban in my home. Let them outlaw all forms of tobacco first, and deal with the huge hole that would leave in their ability to pay for health care services.
My car...I smoke.....gov't doesn't like it? I didn't vote for them to make laws to screw up my life.
Sometimes the law is an azz...and it needs to be challenged.....apathetic Canucks strike again...errr...no...they did nothing again and got hosed once more....just like with GST..... | |
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| Smoke-free crusaders may now be at your door
Posted: 11/11/2007 8:08:22 PM | A few rental companies here have already banned smoking in their apartment blocks. However, if you were living there before the ban, you're grandfathered in so the ban doesn't apply to you. It only applies to those who are new renters in the building. It's only about 2 of the rental agencies in the city but they are the biggest ones. I have no huge issues with them banning it in the physical apartments, but what really gets me is banning it on the balconies as well. I guess it's a safety issue where people may throw lit ciggarettes off the balconies.. but at least the smell wouldn't be as bad if it was outside. The only reasons I'm not totally against the bans in the apartments here is they at least grandfathered it, so if you have the 70 year old grandma she can still smoke in her own home; it is only 2 companies and the other companies are just raking the money in as the smokers go to their buildings, it's not mandated by the government so at least it's not entirely big brother(ed). I'm not a huge fan of the policy to be honest, I do find it a bit of an overkill, but... it's their buildings, they have the right.
Personally, I live in a smoke free home and have to go outside to smoke. I know that the amount I smoke when forced to go outside or when I'm at a home where I can smoke inside is incredibly different. I smoke much more being allowed inside. It's inconvienient to go outside, it's damn cold in the winter.. but thems the rules. Much like the apartment bans here.. thems the rules.
Now if they made it a legal issue and government mandated that every apartment block go non smoking, then I'd have a problem. Right now, we at least have a choice as to where we want to go. | |
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| Smoke-free crusaders may now be at your door
Posted: 11/11/2007 8:25:20 PM | As a person who takes the bus on a regular basis, smokers blowing their smoke all over me while I wait for the bus is not only disgusting, it's also massively unhealthy.
My city has had a smoking ban in bars and restaurants for over a year now. No massive shutdowns in either sector yet.
As for the drunk driving, that's pretty lame, considering drunk driving is already illegal, and carries a much harsher punishment than smoking in public. I mean come on people lets get reasonable.
Slippery slope to fascism? I'd be a little bit more concerned about issues like wire taps without warrants and issues like that. The government has always held the power to regulate the use of substances within it's own borders. I.E. Crack Cocaine and Meth. This crybaby behavior is the result of a small portion of the population suddenly being forced to respect the rights of others to not have to swill their drug everytime they breath.
Geeze I wonder if their is some sort of large lobby/power group supporting these sorts of "grassroots" movements? | |
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| Smoke-free crusaders may now be at your door
Posted: 11/12/2007 6:13:31 AM | "As a person who takes the bus on a regular basis, smokers blowing their smoke all over me while I wait for the bus is not only disgusting, it's also massively unhealthy."
I don't know about "massively unhealthy"... you mean to tell me that breathing in (and not really breathing that much in, since you're outside) second hand smoke for what 10/15 mins is "massively unhealthy"? Come on! People really need to get a grip. | |
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| Smoke-free crusaders may now be at your door
Posted: 11/12/2007 6:36:49 AM |
"As a person who takes the bus on a regular basis, smokers blowing their smoke all over me while I wait for the bus is not only disgusting, it's also massively unhealthy."
I agree with part of the statement. It is disgusting and down right rude of the smokers.
But massively unhealthy? I would bet the fumes coming from the disel bus is more unhealthy then the cig smoke.
Smokers should have rights, but not at the expense of others. I guarantee that the new battlefield after smokers will be obesity. | |
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| Smoke-free crusaders may now be at your door
Posted: 11/12/2007 8:40:59 AM | At least when you get drunk, you accomplished something.
Smoking does... .... .... what? What a waste of time and money, for people who are a waste of time and energy. | |
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| Smoke-free crusaders may now be at your door
Posted: 11/12/2007 8:52:05 AM |
smokers blowing their smoke all over me while I wait for the bus
I have read quotes similar to this many times.As if all smokers deliberately go out of their way to purposefully exhale cigarette smoke directly at someone.
Good grief people.YOU ARE OUTSIDE!!It blows away.If you are camping,would you gripe about campfire smoke?Pollution.Household fireplace?Same thing.Do you mow your lawn with a gas lawn mower?Internal combustion motors pollute.What about smoke from a bbq?It is likely to be burning propane or charcoal.Both give off toxins.I'm not saying we give up these things,but EVERYBODY pollutes with something.I don't have a lawn.Your gas mower disgusts me.Use an old people powered push mower.I don't bbq.Your bbq disgusts me.Cook inside.Your fireplace/lawnmower/bbq smoke blows from your place,over to my place,seeps through my walls,goes down the hall and into my room to find me specifically and makes me ill.
Lighten up people.
Again,I don't smoke. | |
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| Smoke-free crusaders may now be at your door
Posted: 11/12/2007 9:10:19 AM | "At least when you get drunk, you accomplished something"
are you serious? what does drinking accomplish? getting laid? a nice headache the day after the night before? Cirrhosis of the liver? teenage deaths due to drunk driving accidents? alcohol related brawls?
The anti smoking crusaders have gained so much strength because of a few "rude" smokers and this is why it took on a life of its own. This isn't unlike the perfume bans in some office buildings. Or the rights of children to run amuck because parents are forbidden to discipline them. Or sending letters home to parents telling them that they can't send their kids to school with anything containing peanuts. Or any other PC policies. A few people behave badly and forget that they share their space with other humans, and we all pay for it. Funny, the same people who crusade against smoking are the same ones who scream that the government is impeding on their rights when it increases security at the airport. So smoking, peanuts, and perfume, tax on junk food.... what's next?maybe another era of prohibition... I doubt Seagrams would mind. | |
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| Smoke-free crusaders may now be at your door
Posted: 11/12/2007 9:11:11 AM | Thankfully I quit smoking 5 years ago and haven't touched one since. But anti -smoking zealots are going too far. Trying to tell me what I can do in my own home is beyond stupid! Banning smoking on a wide open golf course? Please!! Why don't they stop all the beer drinking out there where the cans and bottles are left all over?
I know that there is little sympathy for smokers but,rest assured, that when the busy bodies finish with the smokers, they will be at YOUR home trying to stop something else.
I can see the bans at sports events where you HAVE to sit in your seat next to or near a smoker or in business's and restaurants but out side in the wide open spaces? Give me a break.
My 2 cents worth. | |
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| Smoke-free crusaders may now be at your door
Posted: 11/12/2007 9:27:57 AM | Compared to smoking, which does absolutely nothing for you... uh yeah, you accomplish something(feeling good).
Don't get all uptight and whiny because you're addicted to it.. Just accept you're wasting your time by doing it. | |
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| Smoke-free crusaders may now be at your door
Posted: 11/12/2007 3:08:36 PM | | if you had compared smoking to say... exercising... i would understand and agree with the comparison... don't compare one bad habit to another... both are a waste of time... both are just means of escapism which reap no benefits whatsoever. | |
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| Smoke-free crusaders may now be at your door
Posted: 11/12/2007 6:48:23 PM | I am happy with the anti smoking crusade.
I OWNED a nice condo apartment a decade ago and I had tobacco odour coming into my place from the unit below me. It came in through the bathoom vents. I had a penthouse suite.
When I bought it, I never stated anywhere I was interested in inhaling tobacco smoke or that I enjoyed my place smelling like a smoky bar.
I am sure that place has banned smoking in their units nowadays, even though they are individually owned because they allowed no pets when I owned one. | |
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| Smoke-free crusaders may now be at your door
Posted: 11/12/2007 7:56:10 PM | | I would like to see tobacco outlawed for packaging and processing. Sure it would be legal to have it and gorw it it would just be illegal to distrubute it at the retail level. | |
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| Smoke-free crusaders may now be at your door
Posted: 11/12/2007 10:45:19 PM | I'd like to see coffee outlawed for packaging and processing. Sure, it would be legal to have and grow it. It would just be illegal to distribute it at the retail level.
Popcorn too! Those noxious odors given off by microwave popcorn in the workplace may cause cancer.
By the way folks, the is NOT a tobacco tax!!! There is only a CIGARETTE tax!!!
When you all anti-smoking idiots put more taxes on cigarettes it has NOTHING to do with CIGARS, PIPE TOBACCO, or ROLLING TOBACCO!!!
Hmmmmm.... Could it be that alot of the "people" who actually make these laws smoke CIGARS?!?!?! | |
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