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| Saudi justice- whats' your opinion?
Posted: 11/18/2007 4:55:10 PM | | lSaudi Arabia has sentenced a gang rape victim to 200 lashes and 6 months in jail. Here's a link that has more details than the breitbart linkhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/11/17/wsaudi117.xml | |
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| Saudi justice- whats' your opinion?
Posted: 11/18/2007 5:08:22 PM | im glad i dont work for haliburton. I hope the employees enjoy their new company HQ in Saudi Arabia.
Sad really, but it's not my place to judge other countries laws. IMHO, i think they are wacked. | |
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| Saudi justice- whats' your opinion?
Posted: 11/18/2007 5:50:15 PM | | Thank-you for your response and yes, it is very sad. However, its not criticized as another countries laws but rather that her sentence has been increased as a response to outside pressures. Her original sentence was 90 lashes. Theres more info on the links. Heres a bbc link"This is astonishing because justice is supposed to be independent from all pressures as well as personal considerations, be it a feeling towards the lawyer or defendant herself," http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7098480.stmhe added. I'm of course not up on Islamic sentences and punishments but I have heard that 200 lash sentences have been know to result in death in full grown men. The 200 lash sentence is a result of her appeal to a higher court. | |
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| Saudi justice- whats' your opinion?
Posted: 11/18/2007 7:18:17 PM | | I believe it is issues like this that cause people to say that Islam is backwards but in actuality according to Jesus it is just plain evil. | |
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| Saudi justice- whats' your opinion?
Posted: 11/18/2007 8:07:17 PM | Saudi Arabia has a lot of oil. At $10/barrel, they can provide free universal health care and university education to every Saudi citizen. At $100/barrel, they can bankroll the entire US national debt with their oil revenues. The Arab peninsula holds more US debt than China and Japan combined. Who are we to criticize their justice system. They don't question our economic policies. One hand washes the other.
If you don't want little girls to get whipped for being raped, then say no to banks that do business with Saudi Arabia. Tear up your credit cards. Say no to the rampant consumerism and materialism that forces us to get in bed with these regimes. We've lost touch with reality. We object to the slightest mention of God in our schools. But we leave our kids parked in front of a TV that spends three months of every year telling them Santa is going to buy them presents if they are good. and then we're forced to go out and buy the presents from these well heeled corporate extortionists. Just turn the damn thing off and say no. Enough. | |
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| Saudi justice- whats' your opinion?
Posted: 11/19/2007 12:49:03 AM |
im glad i dont work for haliburton. I hope the employees enjoy their new company HQ in Saudi Arabia.
Actually they moved to Dubai, UAE. Very much different from Saudi. The population is about 70% foreign, it's alot more open, many establishments serve alcohol. Women can leave their home without being escorted by a male relative. No religious police running around beating people for not praying in a timely manner or for women showing their ankles while wearing their abaya's | |
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| Saudi justice- whats' your opinion?
Posted: 11/19/2007 5:03:54 AM | I don't get the "punish the victim" element of this. If the point is to cleanse the victim of their "impurity" then shouldn't it be more a matter for the mosque than the court?
<div class='quote'>according to Jesus it is just plain evil.
Umm... Islam came several hundred years after Jesus died. | |
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| Saudi justice- whats' your opinion?
Posted: 11/19/2007 5:29:41 AM | | Saudi justice more backwards than Chinas, but the west will look the other way when you need oil to run your economy. The solution of less depedance on Saudi is more domestic energy investment, but enviromentalist make this hard, and therefore we are beholden the Saudi for a long time. Hope the next generation of sultans will open up Saudi Arabia to modernization giving more rights to women the reform of the justice to punish criminals actually instead of rape victims. Economy built on oil exportation always end up being poor countries if they dont deversify thier hard earnings. Mexico learned that lesson almost thirty years, and Chavez will have to learn it too. When Chavez country is broke the Untied States, and Europe as part of fiscal economic adjustment will Venazaula a forgiveness from economic debt incurred by Chavez we will demand oil at a discount. Your a tropical island and find oil gushing all over rememeber store those hardearning away, and use the profits to diversify the economy, so when oil prices go down you dont have to devalue the currency, or cut the budget by 50% to shore of goverment financies. | |
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| Saudi justice- whats' your opinion?
Posted: 11/19/2007 6:45:41 AM | The Saudis are one of the biggest dangers to the world in their influence. Like Saddam, they regular torture people , and kill others by decapitation - but it's ok, they are our friends. 
Like Saddam, they've contributed money (including holding telethons) for the families of suicide bombers.
They produce versions of Korans, and other literature, and even school books that preach extremism and hate.
They destroy the ornate Korans of other Muslims, and everyone gives them a pass.
They probably have nuclear weapons and missiles ( thanks to the Pakistanis and North Koreans) , and the West says nothing about them.
They've falsely jailed Westerners, and abused them.
Their mentality is so extreme in it's nature that they'd rather let a school full of young girls burn, and watch them die, than have men rescue them.
They have even told the US, in the past, that they would not accept any Jews in American forces sent there, during Desert Storm.
These type of actions, and their ability to show the true nature of the Saudis in the leading edge of Islamic extremism is a great cancer on the world, and yet they are allowed to continue without anyone saying a word.
Their justice system is just another example of that mentality in action. | |
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| Saudi justice- whats' your opinion?
Posted: 11/19/2007 7:06:19 AM | My opinion?
The USA will never condem the Saudi's because our economy is so wrapped up in oil.
Money trumps human rights in the good ole USA. That is pretty evident with companies like Yahoo and Google giving the Chinese info on pro democracy individuals.
The USA talks a big game about human rights, but money and interest first. | |
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| Saudi justice- whats' your opinion?
Posted: 11/19/2007 7:16:16 AM |
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Her offence was in meeting a former boyfriend, whom she had asked to return pictures he had of her because she was about to marry another man.
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The couple was sitting in a car when a group of seven Sunni men kidnapped them and raped them both, lawyers in the case told Arab News.
The former boyfriend was also sentenced to 90 lashes for being with her in private.
The victims' lawyer, Abdul-Rahman al-Lahem, was also ordered to face disciplinary action after he spoke to the media about the original sentence.
"My client is the victim of this abhorrent crime. I believe her sentence contravenes the Islamic Sharia law and violates the pertinent international conventions," he said.
"The judicial bodies should have dealt with this girl as the victim rather than the culprit.
"The court blamed the girl for being alone with unrelated men, but it should have taken the humane view that it cannot be considered her fault."
The crime of rape can carry the death penalty in Saudi Arabia.
Of course, it was not her fault...she knowingly broke the Law. { stupid as it is ...}
"It's a cultural thing...you must understand of course..." | |
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| Saudi justice- whats' your opinion?
Posted: 11/19/2007 7:27:24 AM | OH boy....some posters here.....they are so for "rights and multiculturalism", yet, when someone practices a part of their culture that they find distasteful, they are first on the wagon to condemn.
Hey...she broke THEIR laws, knowingly, and is paying the price. By their standards, NOT ours.
Does anyone thingk that our system (flawed though it is) is NOT better than theirs?
Should we be inflicting our system on these people, or leave them to their own devices, accepting their culture as our laws state we should. (Want to bet that these things DON'T happen in America? How much are you willing to lose?)
The issue of face coverings has raged across the nation and back again. It is very easy for a woman in THAT culture to disappear....nobody ever actually "saw" her...did they? This is they way they want to keep it too. That way, their culture and practices can still be practiced here without little fear of being caught. It has already happened...and will continue to happen. Bet on it. | |
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| Saudi justice- whats' your opinion?
Posted: 11/19/2007 7:35:03 AM |
OH boy....some posters here.....they are so for "rights and multiculturalism", yet, when someone practices a part of their culture that they find distasteful, they are first on the wagon to condemn.
...LOL...amazing isn't it? | |
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| Saudi justice- whats' your opinion?
Posted: 11/19/2007 7:49:06 AM | | no, what's amazing is how the apologists come in here and say the stupid things they say. I don't care if she broke the law, punishing a victim is stupid, she was the victim of a crime and they are a backwards society that the world could do without. Societies are supposed to evolve, much of the world has, whats their problem? | |
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| Saudi justice- whats' your opinion?
Posted: 11/19/2007 8:21:36 AM |
they are a backwards society that the world could do without. 
Societies are supposed to evolve, much of the world has, whats their problem?
Good question!....The answer is : Islam
Next question...
..laying odds ...it's a "cultural thing"......lol | |
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| Saudi justice- whats' your opinion?
Posted: 11/19/2007 8:33:40 AM | | Yet, troops go over there to show them a better way and defend them while they learn...and get bad mouthed along with a government that is holding this line...sheesh...."blood for oil"? More like changing a society that can be better dealt with by others by eliminating a culture of hatred and harshness. | |
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| Saudi justice- whats' your opinion?
Posted: 11/19/2007 8:45:33 AM | some more insight..
I worked with someone who lived in Saudi Arabia as a young white Canadian male. His dad was a top level engineer who worked for some oil firm there. He lived in Saudi Arabia (about 8 years during his teen years) and spoke how its so biased the laws there that the only thing that matters is if you have money and what 'district' you lived in. Many times he and his other foreign friends would score hash and would be caught by the district security who just confiscated the items. Other's in other districts if caught with such substances or other activity would be sent to 'Chop Chop Square', where, you guessed it, would be punished by having one of their limbs chopped off. He would sometimes go and watch, I mean who wouldn't be curious not to. All of the Saudi princes and family members are immune from any punishment, many white foreigners are not entirely immune but get many slap on the wrists compared to local 'blue' collar citizens. After living there he learned what districts were more punishable and what he had to do to stay under the radar. He did say that it wasnt as nerve wrecking and worrisome to live there as some people think but it also depends on what situation you are in. They choose to punish the poorer or blue collar district to strengthen their religious views and to keep the Saudi princes.. well acting like Princes. | |
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| Saudi justice- whats' your opinion?
Posted: 11/19/2007 10:26:53 AM |
OH boy....some posters here.....they are so for "rights and multiculturalism", yet, when someone practices a part of their culture that they find distasteful, they are first on the wagon to condemn.
Culture is one thing, extremism is quite another. If you read my thread about banning burquas, and the calls we are getting as a society from Muslims who are exposed to threats from this extremist minority, you'd understand far better.
Wahabist thought is, by definition, extremist - when compared to the totality of Islam. They are the "hard right" in almost every regard, unapologetic, and supportive of terrorist actions and of the Sunnis inside Iraq.
It's no accident that many of the people involved directly, or indirectly, in 9/11 and other terrorist acts were born on Saudi soil.
The Center for Religious Freedom at Freedom House has studied some of the textbooks currently in use in Saudi public schools, from grades one through 12. Nina Shea, the center's director, says the texts do not comport with what Saudi officials have been saying.
The textbooks "reflect an ideology of hatred against the other, against Christians, Jews other Muslims, for instance, Shiites and the majority Sunni Muslims and all others who do not subscribe to the Wahhabi doctrine," Shea says.
The center's report cites numerous examples. It quotes a fourth-grade text as telling students to "love for the sake of God and to hate for the sake of God." The report says that textbooks instruct students that Christians and Jews are "apes and pigs" and warns students not to "greet," "befriend" or "respect" non-believers.
Saudi officials have told Washington that their reformed curriculum encourages tolerance and understanding of other religions and cultures.
Shea says any changes in that direction are miniscule.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5426633
The report's authors worked with the Institute for Gulf Affairs, another Washington-based group, to obtain 12 history and religion textbooks from parents of Saudi schoolchildren. The textbooks were used last year in Saudi schools and Saudi-run schools in Washington, London and Paris.
The report says the curriculum includes a systematic theme of "hatred toward 'unbelievers,'" mainly Christians, Jews, Hindus and atheists, but also Shiites and other Muslims who do not ascribe to the country's orthodox Wahhabi teaching of Islam.
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=6817
FIRST GRADE
" Every religion other than Islam is false."
"Fill in the blanks with the appropriate words (Islam, hellfire): Every religion other than ______________ is false. Whoever dies outside of Islam enters ____________."
FOURTH GRADE
"True belief means . . . that you hate the polytheists and infidels but do not treat them unjustly."
FIFTH GRADE
"Whoever obeys the Prophet and accepts the oneness of God cannot maintain a loyal friendship with those who oppose God and His Prophet, even if they are his closest relatives."
"It is forbidden for a Muslim to be a loyal friend to someone who does not believe in God and His Prophet, or someone who fights the religion of Islam."
"A Muslim, even if he lives far away, is your brother in religion. Someone who opposes God, even if he is your brother by family tie, is your enemy in religion."
SIXTH GRADE
"Just as Muslims were successful in the past when they came together in a sincere endeavor to evict the Christian crusaders from Palestine, so will the Arabs and Muslims emerge victorious, God willing, against the Jews and their allies if they stand together and fight a true jihad for God, for this is within God's power."
EIGHTH GRADE
"As cited in Ibn Abbas: The apes are Jews, the people of the Sabbath; while the swine are the Christians, the infidels of the communion of Jesus."
"God told His Prophet, Muhammad, about the Jews, who learned from parts of God's book [the Torah and the Gospels] that God alone is worthy of worship. Despite this, they espouse falsehood through idol-worship, soothsaying, and sorcery. In doing so, they obey the devil. They prefer the people of falsehood to the people of the truth out of envy and hostility. This earns them condemnation and is a warning to us not to do as they did."
"They are the Jews, whom God has cursed and with whom He is so angry that He will never again be satisfied [with them]."
"Some of the people of the Sabbath were punished by being turned into apes and swine. Some of them were made to worship the devil, and not God, through consecration, sacrifice, prayer, appeals for help, and other types of worship. Some of the Jews worship the devil. Likewise, some members of this nation worship the devil, and not God."
"Activity: The student writes a composition on the danger of imitating the infidels."
NINTH GRADE
"The clash between this [Muslim] community (umma) and the Jews and Christians has endured, and it will continue as long as God wills."
"It is part of God's wisdom that the struggle between the Muslim and the Jews should continue until the hour [of judgment]."
"Muslims will triumph because they are right. He who is right is always victorious, even if most people are against him."
TENTH GRADE
The 10th-grade text on jurisprudence teaches that life for non-Muslims (as well as women, and, by implication, slaves) is worth a fraction of that of a "free Muslim male." Blood money is retribution paid to the victim or the victim's heirs for murder or injury:
"Blood money for a free infidel. [Its quantity] is half of the blood money for a male Muslim, whether or not he is 'of the book' or not 'of the book' (such as a pagan, Zoroastrian, etc.).
"Blood money for a woman: Half of the blood money for a man, in accordance with his religion. The blood money for a Muslim woman is half of the blood money for a male Muslim, and the blood money for an infidel woman is half of the blood money for a male infidel."
ELEVENTH GRADE
"The greeting 'Peace be upon you' is specifically for believers. It cannot be said to others."
"If one comes to a place where there is a mixture of Muslims and infidels, one should offer a greeting intended for the Muslims."
"Do not yield to them [Christians and Jews] on a narrow road out of honor and respect."
TWELFTH GRADE
"Jihad in the path of God -- which consists of battling against unbelief, oppression, injustice, and those who perpetrate it -- is the summit of Islam. This religion arose through jihad and through jihad was its banner raised high. It is one of the noblest acts, which brings one closer to God, and one of the most magnificent acts of obedience to God."
Nina Shea is director of the Center for Religious Freedom at Freedom House.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/
05/19/AR2006051901769_pf.html
Unlike other radical extremist literature, this is state SPONSORED , and APPROVED.
It's no accident that those hijackers on those flights on 9/11 were almost all Saudis. 
The path to those planes impacting on those building that day started on the first day they went to school as children.
That's not culture, it's hatred being taught as official government policy without anyone calling them out on it. | |
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| Saudi justice- whats' your opinion?
Posted: 11/19/2007 11:18:58 AM | MG....Hatred can be taught as a part of culture...almost anything can be. If you are different, you must conform...or be exiled...or change so that we can live amonst you in peace. The Islamic culture is changing....we have to draw a line as to where we feel comfortable with that change. ALL else we see as "extremism." They may not feel it is so. Female circumcision? Practiced here in Canada. But...hidden from public view.
How many Italian families treat their womenfolk with somewhat less than what is "politically correct"? How mnay Greek families? women are treated differently by every culture. Yet...they are supposed to be, BY LAW, equal. Even our court systems treat them differently.
Nope...either they are equal...or they are not....no "apples and oranges" here....simply following the "law".
Is it "equal" for a woman to go out to work and support a two parent family? Many women object to this...but....either they are equal...or they are not.
Euqality also means accepting responsibility. If you cannot do that...then you are NOT equal. | |
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| Saudi justice- whats' your opinion?
Posted: 11/19/2007 11:27:32 AM | get ready b/c with the liberals we have here in the usa when hillary/hilliam is elected, sharia law will be coming soon to you in your town in your county and in your state..did anyone see the piece by fox on Lodi, in central California?........its already being tried in America, starting with school curriculums and textbooks, and with an adminstration selling the country to the highest bidder, its just an inevitable amount of time as the american experiment ends.
peter | |
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| Saudi justice- whats' your opinion?
Posted: 11/19/2007 4:17:34 PM |
get ready b/c with the liberals we have here in the usa when hillary/hilliam is elected, sharia law will be coming soon to you in your town in your county and in your state..
OK... Riiiight...
I'm assuming you must be a graduate of the "American School of Politics" (why debate those you don't like on real issues when you can attack them using false analogy, scare tactics, and misrepresentations).
I'm still not getting this thing with the Saudis punishing the victim because it doesn't match up with the bulk of Islamic Jurisprudence and isn't actually commanded in the Qu'ran and Sunnah (and actually is contrary to the bulk of the Sunnah).
The only thing I can conclude is that the Saudis are indistinguishable from radical Christian fundamentalists in that, they choose the interpretation of Islam that suits them without regard for the actual truth.
It is too bad that Saudi Arabia is ruled by an absolute monarchy with unflagging western support, if it weren't then there is much more likelyhood that the application of Islamic Jurisprudence would be far more accurate there (kind of like the way we don't let radical Christian members of our own culture foist their radical and self-serving false interpretations of Biblical "truth" on us). | |
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| Saudi justice- whats' your opinion?
Posted: 11/19/2007 5:53:36 PM | | Culture is one thing, extremism is quite another-- Who decides what is extreme or what is not. I consider this behavior extreme but I guess the saudies don't.Christanity teaches us to love and have compassion for others. Some may not be religious,but it is integrated into our culture. When we see this kind of "non-compassion" we are disgusted, as I am. But Saudi Arabia is not a Christian culture. This behavior may be normal for muslins, not extreme for them. | |
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| Saudi justice- whats' your opinion?
Posted: 11/19/2007 6:06:04 PM |
The 10th-grade text on jurisprudence teaches that life for non-Muslims (as well as women, and, by implication, slaves) is worth a fraction of that of a "free Muslim male." Blood money is retribution paid to the victim or the victim's heirs for murder or injury:
Not equal, never will be.
Nope...either they are equal...or they are not....no "apples and oranges" here....simply following the "law".
In the Western World…for the most part. { but in all honesty…it is not so…he with the most money is more ‘Equal’…lol…but that is global…so no worries.}
, sharia law will be coming soon to you in your town in your county and in your state.
LOL….they will agitate and claim Racism and all sorts of bullshit, using the American Laws against Americans to set up shop right in the center of that which they Hate.
I'm assuming you must be a graduate of the " American School of Politics” (why debate those you don't like on real issues when you can attack them by using false analogy, scare tactics, and misrepresentations).).
I'm assuming you must be a graduate of the “Canadian School of Warm Fuzzy Multicultural Platitudes" (why debate those you don't like on real issues when you can attack them calling them Racist, Intolerant bigots.
The only thing I can conclude is that the Saudis are indistinguishable from radical Christian fundamentalists in that, they choose the interpretation of Islam that suits them without regard for the actual truth.
You “think” it’s only the Saudi’s with this “interpretation” of Islam?.....LOL….
It IS Islam.
More than 50 countries in the world practice Sharia as part of their criminal code.
Mr Yusuf told the programme he felt more bound by the traditional law of his birth than by the laws of his adopted country. "Us Somalis, wherever we are in the world, we have our own law," he said. "It's not sharia, it's not religious — it's just a cultural thing."
…
Mr Siddiqi predicted that there would be a formal network of Muslim courts within a decade.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/11/29/nsharia29.xml
Religion or Culture? Which is it? But no respect for the Laws of the country in which they maintain legal residency..
Will Canada introduce Sharia law?
By Laura Trevelyan
BBC correspondent, Toronto
Canada is a country well-known for being committed to multiculturalism, but now this most accepting of countries is debating whether tolerance has its limits.
And the Iranian women are fighting it….
But:
A Muslim has the right to live as his religion wishes him to, Mr Ali explained, and under Sharia he can finally live like a true believer in his faith.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/3599264.stm
He doesn’t want to go “home” to do that? …LOL…so the Muslims that DID escape that very shit….are to be subjected to that crap in their new home?
If they want their Sharia Shit…then LEAVE…go back to where it is “homey.” | |
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| Saudi justice- whats' your opinion?
Posted: 11/19/2007 6:47:59 PM | Hi -
Not meaning to stir anything up, I am not a fan of Islam. But growing up at Buckner Baptist Children's Home in Dallas, '62 thru 66, I read and studied the King James New Testament, and in college took a couple of comparative Religion courses. There is nothing in the New Testament concordance about Islam, which is no surprise, since it was founded by Mohammed in the 7th century, A.D.
I do take exception to anyone going off and putting words in Jesus mouth that he never said. I am all for Christians who base their opinions on truth, not convenience.
That being said, just of the idiological stance of Muslims to converting or kill non-Muslims ("Infidels" in their parlance), I wonder why Muslims of foreign origins are allowed to live in the United States, particularly since so-called mainstream Muslims seem to support the concept of Jihad. They are at war with us. We should leave their countries, and not allow them here, since their official doctrine is to convert or kill us all.
"Live and Let Live" Timothy Leary Let them live where they can do us no harm. | |
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| Saudi justice- whats' your opinion?
Posted: 11/19/2007 8:30:54 PM | live and let live would be nice....
we could also sing "kumbaya" at the new moon, join hands around the world and sing simultaneously...
but even the most cursory reading of the koran will tell you that anyone who doesnt convert to islam is an infidel who will be charged a tithe by the mosque, and stripped of the right to vote and own property....ask non muslims who live or come from muslim countries how "tolerant" they are | |
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