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Rhett1
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Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 1 | |
| Airbags in Vehicles
Posted: 11/18/2007 10:18:13 PM | No jokes about Mothers-in-law...lol.
I was in an accident a month ago, and after the beating I got from the airbag, I got thinking about how nasty they can be.
Don't get me wrong, if I had to choose between the airbag or hitting the steering wheel at all, I think I'd pick the airbag...but...
If you've never been hit by an airbag, here's what it's like: imagine being punched as hard as possible in the chest and nose/mouth. It comes out faster than the blink of an eye, and it doesn't have any "give" to it. It blows up to a firm cushion and is made of a fairly thick, rough material. Once they blow up, they almost instantly deflate. They release a powder into the air (this is an accelerant), so if you have any lung issues, expect breathing problems.
Now, this sounds bad enough, right? That's not it...mine hit me so hard that my bra literally exploded. For about three weeks, it looked like I had two purple cabbages on my chest. It popped me in the nose (but I was wearing my seatbelt, so it was not hard enough to break it, just bruise it).
I noticed a woman driving today and she was so close to the steering wheel that you probably couldn't have gotten a piece of paper between them! If the airbag deployed, she would be crushed.
I realize that sometimes that may be because the person is short, but PLEASE don't sit any closer than you have to. If I'd been closer to the steering wheel, I'd probably have sustained some very severe trauma to my chest and ribs/stomach. Keep in mind that I have long legs, and I have my seat as far back as it will go, yet I STILL got hurt by the airbag.
Then there are the people you see with small children in the front seat...I can see exactly why they say not to put children in the front...that airbag would take their head clean off...and I don't think that's an unrealistic statement.
I just wanted to warn people that although airbags DO save lives, we need to be smart about what they can do to the human body. | |
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| Airbags in Vehicles
Posted: 11/18/2007 10:35:14 PM | Airbags are/were deployed by explosive detonation.
The bag itself inflates rapidly at approx. 200 psi.
Can we say ouch? | |
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| Airbags in Vehicles
Posted: 11/18/2007 11:37:07 PM | | Seatbelts definatley save lives, but there is surprisingly little evidence that shows airbags do more good than harm. | |
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| Airbags in Vehicles
Posted: 11/18/2007 11:58:19 PM | I view airbags as a triumph of special interests and big insurance over sense.
If airbags were the safest option, they would be in all racecars.
Unfortunately too-many people are too lazy to wear seatbelts and auto mfrs are too afraid of being sued for not providing all that is possible in order to babysit idiots.
The last automobile owners manual I read devoted more time to covering the manufacturer's butt than providing any useful information. Gems like, don't drive too fast or when drunk or reading. They never did explain how to open the fuse panels (not that easy on this particular car).
IMHO cars should be provided with 5-point harnesses and airbags should be outlawed.
I'm certain it would lower costs for cars, insurance and repairs by thousands of dollars.
Domestic manufacturers also have embraced this form of expensive "Feature Bloat" to restrict competition from less-expensive alternatives.
Thats my two-bits (US$0.252). | |
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| Airbags in Vehicles
Posted: 11/19/2007 6:54:58 AM | Reminds me of that scene in a movie where the bag deploys...impaling the driver onto a pole that just missed the back of her head during the accident.
Anyways...airbags do what they are supposed to do...keep you from being tossed into something harder, like the steering wheel, or windshield.
The comment about "Why aren't they on race cars"? Duh....every pound they can strip off a racecar is taken off in the interests of speed. Think a bit huh?
Sure car manufacturers have to cover their butts in this day and age. You can thank Consumer Affairs and their like for that. Also the dumb court system they have in the States. Imagine being allowed to sue and win for foolishness that nobody in their right mind would even allow to be heard in most other countries! LOL! Like the woman who sued a store because some little brat was running through the store screaming...it "ruined her shopping experience", and she won! The worst of it was...it was HER kid!
What speed of crash do airbags deploy at?
I know here in Quebec, there are companies that collect used airbags and repack them for use by garages that do repair work. There was a stink about them not being "as safe" as new ones. Seems one or two out of the tousands they'd refurbished had defects. | |
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| Airbags in Vehicles
Posted: 11/19/2007 9:01:09 AM | Not only do you suffer from major contusions in the chest area, but chemical burns are also common in airbag deployment! I got in an accident this past July...I know the op's pain! I had to walk around hugging a pillow for a good four weeks becuase of the pain! The chemical burn around my neck wasn't too purty either!
~Beachy | |
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| Airbags in Vehicles
Posted: 11/19/2007 11:06:13 AM |
mojo LA: Seatbelts definatley save lives, but there is surprisingly little evidence that shows airbags do more good than harm. Except if you count "saving lives" as doing good.
GE&H | |
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| Airbags in Vehicles
Posted: 11/19/2007 12:15:57 PM |
Reminds me of that scene in a movie where the bag deploys...impaling the driver onto a pole that just missed the back of her head during the accident.
Final Destination but, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and speculate that very few people drive around with a lance embedded in the headrest.
From DMV.org....
"In the end, however, airbags have been proven to be safer than the alternative. Make airbags as effective as possible by keeping children in the back seat, always wearing your seatbelt, and adjusting your seat to the proper position. Then, enjoy the safe ride!"
http://www.dmv.org/how-to-guides/air-bag-safety.php | |
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| Airbags in Vehicles
Posted: 11/19/2007 1:34:51 PM | A few years back I had a car that I wanted to replace the steering wheel in - and the replacement of choice had no airbag.
I did a lot of research before making that kind of switch, and what it came down to is considerable debate over how likely an airbag is to save your life in an accident.
Seatbelts? No debate. Airbags? Up for grabs.
In fact, several cases on which an airbag saved someone's life was because they were not wearing a seatbelt. If they had been, the airbag would have been uneccessary.
If you can point us to research that proves airbags do more good than harm, I'd love to see it, because from what I read, statistics show you are more likely to be HARMED from an airbag than saved. | |
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| Airbags in Vehicles
Posted: 11/19/2007 1:41:44 PM |
I know here in Quebec, there are companies that collect used airbags and repack them for use by garages that do repair work. There was a stink about them not being "as safe" as new ones. Seems one or two out of the tousands they'd refurbished had defects.
I thought there was more to the story than that. i had heard they wer refilling them with metal pellets or something to make them shoot faster.
Anyways, i had mine go off in 01 when i was driving a bunch of the lads home from a night at the bar. Hardest punch i ever took that didn't knock me out that's for sure. I never seen it coming but I reacted to try and get a hand up. I got my right hand up to block it and the bag pushed my arm right into my head. My wristwatch chipped two of my teeth, and the metal watchband split and the watch was thrown into the back of the car. I woke up the next morning and my whole arm was black as well as my entire throat area. I had swallowed blood overnight as well and it took me half the morning to hawrk all that back up. (probably too much information I know, sorry...lol)
I had like almost no voice for a couple of days, and the arm felt sprained for about a week. I taped the steering wheel up with duct tape until a chum at the wreckers could find me one for a Camry. Camry's are like almost indestructible so after waiting around for the longest of times for my wrecker buddy to call me, I took the steering wheel back off, took it to a saddlemaker and he reclothed it, and then i put it back on without the bag inside. I never put the airbag back in. No thanks. Once was enough with that thing. i sold the car last year uncertified. it was like 600 bucks or something to put the bag back in, so i sold it as is.
I imagine they could be lethal to small kids as some folks told me back then that there had been some stories in the news about them hurting little kids. I'll tell ya, I won't forget that night in a hurry. I've been hit in the face many times in life and in sports and whatnot, but that one was a pretty good wallop. I was just totally dazed there in the seat for a few minutes while i tried to figure out what had just happened. I hadn't been travelling fast either. Going down a road that had some construction parts chipped out of the road with a yellow flasher denoting a bump ahead. i slowed right down, but i guess the cowling under the front or something triggered it to come out. Plus there was all this greasy stuff all over the window as well as a putrid stench.
The boys still talk about that one. | |
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| Airbags in Vehicles
Posted: 11/19/2007 2:52:13 PM |
If airbags were the safest option, they would be in all racecars.
Not true...
Race cars bang and bump around...
The drivers have a 5 point safety restraint system along with the HANS (head and neck) device that keps the head in place... | |
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| Airbags in Vehicles
Posted: 11/19/2007 8:19:09 PM | | Personally I have always felt air bags were for people who refused to wear seat belts. I have been wearing seat belts in my vehicles since I bought my fist car at 14. No one ever had to convice me or make a law to wear seat belts, it's a no brainer. | |
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| Airbags in Vehicles
Posted: 11/20/2007 12:23:45 AM | From Wikipedia:
Airbag injuries and fatalities
Airbags involve the extremely rapid deployment of a large cushion. While airbags can protect a person under the right circumstances, they can also injure or kill. To protect occupants not wearing seat belts, U.S. airbag designs trigger much more quickly than airbags designed in other countries. As seat belt use in the U.S. climbed in the late 1980s and early 1990s, auto manufactures were able to adjust their designs. Today all airbag control units recognize if a belt is used and set the trigger time accordingly.
Newer airbags trigger at a lesser speed; nonetheless, passengers must remain at least 25 centimeters (10 in) from the bag to avoid injury from the bag in a crash.
Injuries such as abrasion of the skin, hearing damage (from the sound during deployment), head injuries, eye damage for spectacle wearers and breaking the nose, fingers, hands or arms can occur as the airbag deploys.
In 1990, the first automotive fatality attributed to an airbag was reported, with deaths peaking in 1997 at 53 in the United States. TRW produced the first gas-inflated airbag in 1994, with sensors and low-inflation-force bags becoming common soon afterwards. Dual-depth airbags appeared on passenger cars in 2005. By that time, deaths related to airbags had declined, with no adults deaths and 2 child deaths attributed to airbags that year. Injuries remain fairly common in accidents with an airbag deployment.
Smoking a pipe should be avoided while driving. If the airbag inflates and hits the pipe, it is likely to be fatal, even if the crash is moderate.
The increasing use of airbags may actually make rescue work for Firefighters, EMS and Police Officers more dangerous. Every first responder should be properly trained on how to safely deactivate airbags or be aware of the potential hazards. Removing the car battery does not deactivate the airbags. | |
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| Airbags in Vehicles
Posted: 11/20/2007 5:51:11 AM | | I heard on a newscast that airbags were designed with the male physical structure in mind. If your shorter than six foot tall..you stand a good chance to be decapitated... | |
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| Airbags in Vehicles
Posted: 11/20/2007 11:01:32 AM | I don't think they put metal pellets in airbags to make them deploy faster...kinda like having a shotgun in your face....sheesh....but then again...Quebeckers....they may find that the ideal way to stop themselves in an accident...who knows?
Many vehicles had tilt steering wheels and the airbag is in them. So, tilting the wheel down a bit would deploy the airbag at a lower level...making it safer for shorter drivers.
I don't know how hard you have to hit in order for the bags to deploy. I do know that with a BIG chromed bumper up front, there is less chance of major vehicle damge, especially against these plastic front ended cars coming off the line today. Crumple zones...another word for "write off, buy a new car, and enjoy your higher insurance rates." Just another way to screw money out of you.
If they were really concerned about saving lives, why are studded tires NOt allowed on roads in many areas? Because of the money it takes to maintain these roads. Studded tires work far better than all seasons and winter tires. so, cars that crumple to absorb most of the impact are built that way to keep you (as a taxpayer) alive and contributing. The minute you can't...you find insurance and gov't programs difficult to access. | |
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| Airbags in Vehicles
Posted: 11/20/2007 12:32:01 PM |
don't know how hard you have to hit in order for the bags to deploy
Seems a lot of folks don't know the answer to that one either (see below at consumer affairs). Some Beamers have a habit of going off for no reason at all. My chums that night agreed that I literally just eased up on the bump at like maybe not even 15 klicks per hour. I slowed right down to almost a crawl, and my mechanic couldn't find any real damage underneath the car the next day...just a bit of scratching under the cowling. i guess it was just one of them nights.
As for the rumoured story about the pellets:
An industry group today issued a warning that many air bags are being refurbished with false or faulty replacements, putting unsuspecting customers at risk. In some cases, rags, towels, cans and other debris have been found stuffed in air bags. In other cases, examiners have found the air bags were rebuilt with inferior parts...
Rebuilt Air Bags May Fail, Group Warns
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news02/bags.html
243 stories about used air bags:
http://tinyurl.com/26hdbk
OR:
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/
Just type in search box:used air bags
As for the rumour about the metal pellets and other miscellaneous sh1t used to refill the bags in Quebec, it was my mechanic, who was also my chum and drinking buddy, who told me about it after the accident. He's dead now. Died last year. But he never steered me wrong in the twenty years I knew him and i depended on him to keep me and my staff on the road for twenty years. I don't have the time to go look for a story on it, but maybe down the road i will.
He was never too wrong about anything when it came to cars. Most of the head mechanics around the city knew they couldn't touch a candle to this guy, but he always worked from home and refused to ever go work for somebody even though he could have made huge bucks in a shop somewhere. If he needed a part from one of the dealerships, they delivered right there on the spot to his shop. Anyways, i digress, but I'll see if i can find some sort of backup to the story as a couple of other chums had heard the same thing when we talked about it years ago. Maybe it's in one of those 243 stories.
Or maybe it's in one of these:
http://www.google.ca/search?q=used+air+bags&hl=en&start=10&sa=N
Results 11 - 20 of about 14,200,000 for used air bags. | |
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| Airbags in Vehicles
Posted: 12/4/2007 2:19:52 PM | I am one of those short people that has to sit really close to the steering wheel because I can't reach the pedals otherwise. I have a van that I drive for my business and the seat is really high but the pedals are really low so I have to sit so close that my arms are bent at a 90 degree angle. I know this is not safe, but I can't sit any further back which really scares me.
One of my friends was actually killed by an air bag. He was an average height, but the air bag hit him in the ribs so hard that they broke and a piece of them punctured his lung and he died about 5 minutes after the crash. I know another person who was seriously burned by an air bag that hit her in the face, she has permanent scaring on her face which looks like someone threw acid on her.
One of my brother's friends also lost his hearing because he had his head turned, looking out the window, and they were hit from the side yet the airbags still blew and hit him so hard on the side of his head that it ruptured his ear drum and he is now deaf in that ear.
I think air bags do more harm than good honnestly, and because I'm short I'm actually scared of them, yet if you turn off the air bags it voids your insurance, even if it's saving your life not having them. The fact that you can't get new vehicles without them is a little nerve wrecking too because they do hurt more shorter people than they save.
I think they should be totally optional, not just put in every vehicle. | |
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Rhett1
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Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 18 | |
| Airbags in Vehicles
Posted: 12/4/2007 6:04:34 PM | Paws: How ironic that someone with that name wrote in here today...I noticed something else while out driving that made me think a bit....
The roads here right now are terrible. There are accidents, both serious and minor fender-benders happening a lot.
I saw a young woman driving a newer vehicle (which means it has airbags) and she had a Pug sitting on her lap. So, a small dog, probably no more than about 20 pounds, at the most, between her and the steering wheel...hmmmm.
What would happen to that dog if the airbag went off?
What would happen to the driver being hit by not only the airbag, but the dog, as well?
I got thinking about it...in my accident, if I'd had a small dog (or worse yet, a child!) on my lap, they would definitely be dead and I would have, at the very least, had some broken ribs, a broken sternum and possible major damage to internal organs such as heart, lungs and liver.
Animals loose in vehicles make very dangerous projectiles in accidents. For those of us who dearly love our pets, we think of how hard it would be to lose them, yet I believe it's very rare that people do anything to restrain their pets inside a vehicle...and don't even get me started on dogs loose in the back of pickups!
For the sake of yourself, your loved ones and your beloved pets, not to mention others affected by an accident, PLEASE RESTRAIN YOUR PETS IN YOUR VEHICLES OR LEAVE THEM AT HOME AND NEVER EVEN CONSIDER LETTING YOUR CHILD RIDE IN A VEHICLE WITHOUT BEING IN A PROPER CHILD SEAT AND BELTED IN! | |
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| Airbags in Vehicles
Posted: 12/5/2007 1:00:12 PM | eldubu1, I agree 100% with you. I have a dog daycare where I pick up the dogs in the morning and drop them off in the afternoon, and I make sure they are all seatbelted in while driving. Not only does it save their lives if I get in an accident, it prevents them from flying through the vehicle and hitting me. One of my dad's friends was driving with his little dog on the back of the back seat in the window (which many people do with little dogs) and he hit someone who cut him off and the dog came flying off the back seat and hit him in the back of the head which broke his neck... he died instantly and the dog lived. It was a minor accident and if he had the dog restrained he would still be alive today.
I think everyone should buy seatbelts for their dogs, it's safer for everyone in the vehicle, plus it stops them from pacing in the back, or jumping from back seat to front and destracting the driver. Not to mention, if you were ever in a car accident with a dog/pet in the front seat and the air bags went off they would be killed for sure. | |
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| Airbags in Vehicles
Posted: 3/24/2008 8:26:54 PM | Well I can no comment from personal experience, but here are my friends experiences.
Friend one: Launched his BMW over a center median, and into the ditch on the other side of the road...his airbag did not go off.
Same friend: Split a 16" power pole in two with his SUV a few months latter head on and his airbags did not go off when he hit it, or when the top fell down on him.
Another friend: Was driving down the road in the city and both of his airbags went off for no reason. He was barely able to keep the car on the road, but did not crash. He suffered a sprained wrist and bruising to his face where the bag threw his hand into his face. He took it back to the dealership and they said it is not their problem they just sell the cars. He called up the maker and they said, its out of warranty it's not our problem, and he went to the BBB and they said, we can't do anything about it, and ICBC said it was not their problem. No lawyer will take on a car company, so now he has a few grand of damage to a car that is not even paid off yet!!!
He may continue to fight it, but it's looking rather hopeless at the moment. | |
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| Airbags in Vehicles
Posted: 3/25/2008 6:55:52 AM | WOW you guys, OUCH! I've always been a little paranoid of airbags. I don't drive, but even in the passenger seat I'm back as far as I possibly can be and get agitated when people ram the car around in a way that makes me nervous if the thing is going to go off or not. I'd never dream of allowing a child in the front seat of a car. As much as kids complain about wanting the front seat it's not like when we were little, and how could you forgive yourself, or put the image out of your mind for a second if someone, anyone, but especially a little child gets decapitated!
What really drives me nuts though is the seatbelt design and positioning in cars, and I mean just about every single car I've been in, in my entire life. I'm by no means short, but I'm not over 6 feet either, and regardless the shoulder strap gags and chokes me, or rubs my neck absolutely red because it's TOO HIGH. Doesn't matter how straight your chair is, or how far back or forward you sit, how tall you sit or if you slouch, or yes, even if there's an adjustment slide by the door to lower it, the thing is not going to help me in an accident. Perhaps with the right impact it would partially sever my neck/jugular/main arteries to my brain and I'd massively stroke, bleed out, or straight up break my upper body in half. Perhaps I have a really morbid imagination (ok, no perhaps) but regardless, the moment I buckle up I stretch the belt out and flip the shoulder strap behind my back.
I'm obviously no collision expert, but I'm thinking a 5 point harness belt, joined the the shoulders of the seat, and a seat fused to the frame of a car would be a lot more practical, or at the very least, much more comfortable. | |
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| Airbags in Vehicles
Posted: 3/25/2008 4:54:19 PM | | does anyone know of a way to disengage the airbag? i'm 5'1 and 93 lbs. i have no desire to get obliterated by an airbag. | |
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| Airbags in Vehicles
Posted: 3/25/2008 5:12:53 PM | | I'm short too, so I have to sit close. Ive thought about disabling mine. | |
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| Airbags in Vehicles
Posted: 3/25/2008 5:32:10 PM | Yeah, air bags save MEN"s lives. However -- auto industry doesn't want to publish the fact that they have KILLED almost as many women as children. (Google, if you don't believe.)
I'm short, and have to sit close to my steering wheel, plus slant the wheel up. I guess however you slant your steering wheel -- a woman has to choose between her face and her breasts!
Many cars have fuse boxes with air bag fuse labeled. Any friend of yours with mechanical skill can remove the fuse without deploying the bag.
If you have the bag disabled the way my state wants it done -- you will have to pay over $150 for a permit plus whatever fee a mechanic wants to charge.
My car is over 14 years old. The airbag mechanisims finally wore out in my car, and it gave me a message on the dash lights that it was gone. YAYYYYYY!!!!!!
'Sure hope the car makers come up with something safer before I have to buy another carr.
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| Airbags in Vehicles
Posted: 3/25/2008 5:40:14 PM | "I'm short, and have to sit close to my steering wheel, plus slant the wheel up. I guess however you slant your steering wheel -- "
TraderGurl, I've always wondered why a car cant be set up, by a mechanic etc dealer, to extend the pedals out more, instead of moving the driver dangerously close to the
steering wheel etc my father, has very short legs, and always has to move the seat to it's max
forward position, so tight, it scares me, his chest is right up to the steering wheel , sigh
maybe someday in the future !!! of course I know a car cant be altered in regards to pedals
that easily, they would have to built/designed to be able to be adjusted like ..
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