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Posted: 11/19/2007 8:35:00 PM | Apparently the airline security would like us all to pack according to what makes THEIR jobs of intrusion easier.
I am a throw it in at last minute kinda gal, don't think it is the government's business to tell me how to pack.
It's bad enough we can't carry on normal things because the terrorist won. Now I am expected to pack neatly and in the precise manner the TSA would like?
Sorry, thought this was America, the home of the free and the brave.
Glad I don't have to fly for business or to visit family anymore.
I have a friend who said he'd do whatever he was told in order to make his flight plans run smoothly.. I bet when they stop him for looking like a foreignor and make him subject to a full body cavity search, he'll change his tune. | |
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Posted: 11/19/2007 9:31:46 PM | I'd like to see Bill Maher's "Fly At Your Own Risk Airlines."
"I wish someone would just start 'fly at your own risk airlines.' You can have your hair gel, you can have your lighter; you can have a ***ing gun, how about that? You can show up at the gate 5 minutes before the plane leaves and pay in cash like in the good old 1980s."
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UCCHTsxrlKw
I'd fly on it. Isn't the persistent terror of terrorism counter-productive to fighting terrorism? What's funny is that conservatives perpetuate the myth that liberals are weak, yet conservatives are also perpetuating the fear of terrorism. That right-wing fear-mongering leads to the insanely restrictive prohibitions that not only repeatedly prove ineffective, but are completely unwanted by those of us who actually aren't afraid. Boo. | |
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Posted: 11/19/2007 9:45:24 PM |
I'd fly on it. Isn't the persistent terror of terrorism counter-productive to fighting terrorism? What's funny is that conservatives perpetuate the myth that liberals are weak, yet conservatives are also perpetuating the fear of terrorism. That right-wing fear-mongering leads to the insanely restrictive prohibitions that not only repeatedly prove ineffective, but are completely unwanted by those of us who actually aren't afraid. Boo.
I'd fly on a "fly at your own risk " airline .
Big government is certainly not something that a true "conservative" or the true "right wing" supports . Quite the opposite !
There's really not a dimes difference between republican and democrat , both political parties dance to the same tune.
Intelligent people should be too smart to allow themselves to be divided and conquered.
Don't let the establishment play left against right , you're just being played .
Freedom is everyone's interest . All people , of all political opinion . | |
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Posted: 11/19/2007 9:54:38 PM | I can't help but think of the gun control and criminals thread. Terrorists wouldn't cause much terror if the plane passengers gunned them down withing 3 seconds!
Gun control AND crime control: double tap a terrorist. | |
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Posted: 11/19/2007 10:04:16 PM | What kills me is that they stop Sally Soccer Mom from carrying her cosmetics or a bottle of drinking water, and now they are telling us how to pack, on top of not being able to carry a lighter through security (matches are ok though).
However, our government refuses to do the one thing that would greatly improve airline security: profile young Middle Eastern males. Go figure
"Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all the terrorists have been Muslims" | |
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Posted: 11/19/2007 10:04:55 PM | Perhaps, just perhaps, there is a market for a "own risk" airline. But is there an airline that wants to touch that idea? Most likely not. Flammable materials pose a hazard, terrorist threat or no. An acceptable risk to you probably won't be an acceptable risk to the employees (like myself), who fly day in and day out. That multiplies the risks by a lot! Then there's everyone on the ground, who would rather not have planes flying around at the passengers' "own risk."
I'm no big fan of the TSA myself, but when it comes to the public safety, there really is no such thing as "your own risk." I really have to think that Maher was being tongue-in-cheek. He does crack me up sometimes...
Edit:
However, our government refuses to do the one thing that would greatly improve airline security: profiling young Middle Eastern males. Go firgure
It's funny how the only people who want profiling are people who don't fit the profile.
"Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all the terrorists have been Muslims"
Tell that to the people in the Oklahoma City federal building in the early '90's. The ones that survived that is...
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Posted: 11/19/2007 10:09:31 PM | "Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all the terrorists have been Muslims"
Don't allow the establishment to be successful in it's demonization of muslims . This is only war propaganda in order to gain public support for escalating war in the middle east , more war where everyone but the string pullers lose.
Intelligent people should be too smart to be divided and conquered.
No more war is in the interest of all people , of every race and religion. | |
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Posted: 11/19/2007 10:20:04 PM | Tell that to the people in the Oklahoma City federal building in the early '90's. The ones that survived that is...
What does the OKC bombing have to do with airline travel? My post should be taken in the context of airline travel and the TSA.
And you are right, I do not fit the profile. Because I am not going to hijack a plane. How many times have you been going through the security line and seen an American mother of 3 pushing a stroller sitting down taking her shoes off and getting patted down?
If you think people like her deserve the same (or even less) scrutiny than Mohammad Shahib Alakbar, a 26 year old male with a Syrian passport, then you need to explain why.
I was on military orders traveling in uniform one time and I was stopped for a "Random" search, while I was having the entire contents of my bag searched and patted down, 3 middle eastern men who didnt even speak native English walked right through with no problems. I have a friend who works for the TSA they are specifically told not to profile, and it is beaten into them so much that they are almost gunshy to stop an Arab. | |
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Posted: 11/19/2007 10:32:07 PM | Ah, I see. The catchy saying really should be "Not all Muslims overstay their visas, learn how to fly airplanes, board airliners legally with boxcutters and materials to fabricate a fake bomb, both of which were allowed at the time, hijack said airliners and fly them into buildings symbolizing capitalism and US military might, but all those who overstay their visas, learn how to fly airplanes, board airliners legally with boxcutters and materials to fabricate a fake bomb, both of which were allowed at the time, hijack said airliners and fly them into buildings symbolizing capitalism and US military might are Muslims."
And let's assume that profiling is allowed. See the problem yet? Terrorists will make it their goal to recruit those who don't fit the profile. That's the problem with security. It's like the little Dutch boy trying to plug the dam with his finger. Leaks keep springing up where you are not. | |
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Posted: 11/20/2007 1:23:53 AM | I don't see how anyone will ever be able to "hijack" a plane ever again. No matter what the security arrangements are.
If someone stands up in a plane full of people and says "hijack"... 100% of the passengers will jump on his/her bones and pulverize em. | |
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Posted: 11/20/2007 4:02:39 AM |
If you think people like her deserve the same (or even less) scrutiny than Mohammad Shahib Alakbar, a 26 year old male with a Syrian passport, then you need to explain why.
Because next time, the terrorist won't fit the profile. | |
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Posted: 11/20/2007 4:44:41 AM |
I don't see how anyone will ever be able to "hijack" a plane ever again. No matter what the security arrangements are.
If someone stands up in a plane full of people and says "hijack"... 100% of the passengers will jump on his/her bones and pulverize em.
If only. Unfortunately that just doesn't usually happen. It's not because people don't want to or are even necessarily unwilling. It's just that in a panic situation they assume they are alone. One reason why criminals don't like people talking during the commission of a crime... They might form a plan and realize they can carry it out. | |
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| Airline Travel
Posted: 11/20/2007 6:55:49 AM | I travel internationally from time to time. I fully admit the security checks and the consequent line-ups are annoying. I once quipped while waiting in a line at Heathrow, that if this keeps up, we'll soon be forced to board naked. On the other hand, I see all to obviously why there are delays. People just don't get it, or refuse to get it, and desparately try to get away with breaking the rules.
I can't count the number of people that try to get away with way more luggage than even I think is reasonable for carry-on, regardless of security concerns. Keep in mind, once they get on the plane, that stuff needs to be put away and that holds up everybody else trying to board. It creates problems for the crew because some of the stuff is literally too big to fit in the compartments available.
Then there are the people that bicker about liquids or their gawd-given right to bring a monster baby carriage on board. Or the ones wearing enough metal to build an airplane causing the rest of the line a delay as they have to virtually undress to pass the metal detector? Or how about the ones that bring a baby on board free and then end up inconveniencing other passengers because they want a spare seat to put the kid down? The number of disrespectful passengers, and the number of ways to be disrespectful, is actually stunning when you think about it.
Frankly, I'm amazed the crew and staff put up with all this crap. I know I'd have a heck of a lot of issues with most of this and I would be tempted to simply refuse entry to a lot of the a--holes that seem to show up to fly.
The security arrangements are nominally for your protection and the protection of all the other passengers as well as all the people working there. Are some of them a bit overboard? Maybe. I think a lot of the issues could be overcome by making some resticted stuff available onboard. But really, who needs luggage on their person during a flight? The problem lies in collecting luggage after the flight and that seems to be what people want to avoid. (Note to mention the chance of loss or damage.) Well, that really isn't a good reason for luggage to be carried on board, in my opinion. If people were aware of the rules and simply followed them instead of trying to skirt the rules and argue with the staff, the whole process would be a lot faster. The real problem is the attitude expressd in the OP.
By the way, I remember the good-ole-days. Yes it was all a lot easier. Then again, a lot less people were flying then so all this is moot in my opinion. Times have changed.
Some of the responses here though are surprising. Some of them show a lack of understanding about the issues involved, like talking about guns onboard an airplane. I mean seriously, I wouldn't want someone with a gun onboard a commercial flight for the simple reason that it might discharge accidentally. What possible reason could one have to take this wholly unnecessary risk?
Profiling is not a great idea, to say the least. The responses to the suggestion are pretty much right on the mark. In the end, thorough checks are more-or-less random and annoying. I should know. I recently faced one after 10 waking hours without a cigarette. Oh well. They do serve a purpose though.
As for hijackers, I think since 9/11 your run-of-the-mill hijacker is faced with a very different dynamic onboard an airplane. I don't know if passengers would definitely fight back but I get the feeling hijackers would be faced with having to reassure the passengers which would be a tough thing to do in my opinion. People who fear they are going to die if they are passive tend to feel they have nothing to lose by becoming active. It's an interesting issue. | |
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Posted: 11/20/2007 7:40:36 AM |
I can't help but think of the gun control and criminals thread. Terrorists wouldn't cause much terror if the plane passengers gunned them down withing 3 seconds!
Gun control AND crime control: double tap a terrorist.
Oh wonderful. That's all we need on our planes.
A bunch of people who's only knowledge of firearms is which end of it the bang comes out of.  | |
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Posted: 11/20/2007 8:35:18 AM | That's alway been the problem with government ~ particuarly the Fed ~ great over-kill.
What seems to be happening ~ is people that truly know very little or attempting to regulate and control ~~ the many that do. ~
For example, Say I've got me a nice cozy job with the Fed ~ I got a budget, money to spend ~ and unlike you ~ my budget "is" and must be larger each year. For each years , there are more people and inflation of the dollar.
I'm over say ,~~ Health and Human Services for 3 states. ~ I got the job ~ because, I was appointed by the president for helping him get elected.
I like my job ~ I'm really cluless what it's all about ~ but the people that work for me , tell me all I need to know, ~ I sign papers, give little speechs, ~ offering the adminstrations spin on thing.
When something bad happens and the balls in my court ~ I am are required to act. ~ do something ~ appear to be responsible. ~ The fastest way to lose your nice job ~ is to do nothing.
My opinion ~ we'd be better off if the FED went on a long vacation.
This presidential appointee ~ thing ~ has been going on for many, many years. You have wittness the affectivness of the most recent ones.
To work on a construction site, steel toes boots , hardhat and saftyglasses are required, if you are off the ground 4 ft or more ~ safety harness are required ~ why!
to prevent injuries. ~ By whom? ~ the insurance companies
You got so much crap on ~ you can't move out of the way ~ The glasses are very hard to see out of well ~ constant cleaning required ~ if you are cleaning your glasses, you are not paying attention to other things. ~
Has a insurance agent ever sank a 16 penny bright with 3 strikes? ~ Hell no! they know numbers ~ and numbers are a matter of who's counting.
Government! ~ blood -suckers ~ attorneys ~ same , same ~dar | |
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| Airline Travel
Posted: 11/20/2007 3:46:45 PM | Due to the age of most airlines planes and short cuts on maintenace and repair.They
all are"FLY AT YOUR OWN RISK'' | |
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| Airline Travel
Posted: 11/20/2007 11:34:30 PM | I am not saying you dont screen those who dont fit the profile. I am only saying you show greater scrutiny to those who fit the terrorist profile.
Holding everyone else up to "Randomly" search a 75 year old woman, while not requiring an Arab to remove his headgear like everyone else for fear of offending him is what needs to be changed.
How about we just add another question to the check in process?
1. Did you pack your bags?
2. Have your bags been in your sight since you packed them?
3. Has anyone asked you to carry anything on board?
4. Are you an Islamic terrorist?
Apparently this would be enough to satisfy the majority of you morons. | |
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