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| Please explain to me sex and dating rules
Posted: 11/28/2007 4:30:42 PM | Okay, I am 47 years old, and nothing seems to have changed since I was a young girl.
Recently, I have accepted a few dates with very financially powerful and successful
older men. On these first dates, I have had severe problems with these guys keeping their hands to themselves and respecting my boundaries physically. Then I become angry, they call for another date, and I tell them I am not interested because I see what they are all about and I am not interested. There are alot of single women looking to bag a rich buck around here (I`m not one of them). When you first meet guys like this, they are usually very well read, intellectual, polished, and often speak of their conservative views and the church they belong to. So you are all happy that you have met a man of quality, and accept the date. Then when he actually gets you out with him, you have this drooling maniac trying to assault you.It almost seems as if their wealth ,power and position give them a sense of entitlement to behave however they want and not be respectful. They seem to want sex immediately on the first date and aggressively go after it to the point of really angering the women, and then basically laugh it off. Is this behavior synonymous with men in power positions who usually get their way? Is this entitlement factor something I should watch out for and avoid? Or have I just run into a string of jerks. Because if this is how most country club guys are, I`ll sart dating the gardener instead. This is not a self pity thread . I just want opinions as to if you think that the money makes the guys sexually disrespectful. | |
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| Please explain to me sex and dating rules
Posted: 11/28/2007 4:40:03 PM |
I just want opinions as to if you think that the money makes the guys sexually disrespectful.
It isn't the money.
It's a sense of entitlement. | |
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| Please explain to me sex and dating rules
Posted: 11/28/2007 4:49:36 PM | Not always, it depends on the man himself. I am a successful software developer but I was raised correctly and therefore I have respect for women and in fact I respect everyone I meet, regardless of gender.
You'll probably get some responses about how the "Successful Alpha Male" thinks that they have every right to push the boundaries of decency, that they are used to getting their own way, etc., etc.. It's all a load of pigs wallow, it's about how they were raised.
That's my 2 cents, anyways. | |
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| Please explain to me sex and dating rules
Posted: 11/28/2007 4:52:16 PM | OP, I make no bones about it in the fora, that for me, more mature adults are either "into" each other, or not. If so, then sex is usually a normal part of dating, in my experience. Some feel differently, but that's irrelevant to your post.
That being said, most mature men know that "no means no", and most realize that sex that has to be "coerced" is meaningless. Successful, or not, in the business world, the men you're going out with sound like men who "haven't dated much". That whole scenario that you described like something that a lot of high school boys do. Generally, more mature men have a bit more savoir faire, and can read the situation. If it's not natural, it's "bad form" to proceed, and what's true for me is to accept that she's "just not into me".
Is there some common thread, other than you, among these men? For example, are they all just out of long term marriages, and possibly suffering from "arrested development?"
You asked about the "rules", and the fact is, no matter how angry some women get to see it posted, that the "3 date rule" is still in general currency, as something of a default, unless you've talked about it between the two of you, or it happens sooner by mutual choice.
I don't have the answer, other than to say, it's not what I believe is the "norm", and, no, one wouldn't expect a man in his 40s or 50s to be pawing and pressuring. | |
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| Please explain to me sex and dating rules
Posted: 11/28/2007 8:35:58 PM |
What three date rule..?
Rather than getting caught up in it in yet another thread, it is, quite simply, a "rule of thumb" in terms of dating, that originally came into being in the 70's. If you really don't know, a web search will yield a page full of results, or you can find it discussed in Wikipedia.
Generally speaking, it means, that if a relationship hasn't become physically intimate after 3 dates, that it's "understood" that it isn't "working". | |
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| Please explain to me sex and dating rules
Posted: 11/28/2007 8:47:49 PM | It's been my experience there ARE no rules.
When it's a comfortable time for BOTH people it happens. It would never occur to me to swoop down on someone that way.
These things happen quickly or after a period of getting to know people better or even not at all.
The kind of men you're dealing with may know how to make lots of money, but are obviously clueless when it comes to knowing what the woman their with is about. | |
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| Please explain to me sex and dating rules
Posted: 11/28/2007 9:57:39 PM | HABIT OF COMMAND
Meaning no disrespect, but interpreting your signals can be a difficult thing for a man to do. Particularly one accustomed to taking charge. How well are you establishing your "boundaries"?
You shouldn't condemn him for his boldness (remember, this is how he became successful in the first place) if you haven't made them perfectly clear. Likewise, it's not entirely fair to deny him a chance to redeem himself. NO does mean NO however and if he doesn't respect that or treats a previous faux pas as a joke, move on, he's a jerk.
I'm a Maritime Captain and accustomed to being obeyed, OR ELSE. Shipboard.
I don't carry this over into my personal life though. There may be some bleed over --into one's personality but if you can't separate the two, you've got a problem.
No one has any right to "assault" you regardless of his/her wealth or station in life. I make a great deal more money than any of the corporate executives or power brokers
I contract with and am in a position of much greater authority. I've never felt that gave me any special "privileges" in a personal relationship.
--Cap'n Rob
"... To the Wind that Blows, the Ship that Goes, and the Lass Who Loved a Sailor" | |
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| Please explain to me sex and dating rules
Posted: 11/28/2007 10:08:47 PM | The only 'three date rule' is the one made up from only those guys who rule that they have sex by the third date......and those are the ONLY guys where this supposed RULE applies. This is NOT a RULE....It never WAS a RULE. To say it is a RULE is to make it a STANDARD for all of populous to follow......IT ISN'T. There are PLENTY of guys who don't follow this RULE......
OP...Stick to your guns. Whatever their motivation may be, or whatever status or 'entitlement' that dictates their actions, just know.....you don't have to follow ANY of it....NOR do you have to be fooled into thinking there are sets of dating RULES that apply, and if you don't follow them, you are somehow living in the dark ages.....
Only YOU will know when it's time, and when the person is RIGHT to do it with when you feel it is........... | |
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Lea333
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Joined: 10/16/2007
Msg: 10 | |
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| Please explain to me sex and dating rules
Posted: 11/29/2007 8:42:39 AM | The only 'three date rule' is the one made up from only those guys who rule that they have sex by the third date......and those are the ONLY guys where this supposed RULE applies. This is NOT a RULE....It never WAS a RULE. To say it is a RULE is to make it a STANDARD for all of populous to follow......IT ISN'T. There are PLENTY of guys who don't follow this RULE......
Dashriprock223, the OT is "explain the sex and dating rules", and when I brought it into this thread, I specifically said that it is something that some people use as a "rule of thumb", but I didn't want to turn this thread into an argument. In the case of the OP, she was complaining about men who were pawing her on a first date, so in a way, it was a way to say that it's another way that those men were out of line.
This thread is not "about" the "3 date rule", and why you want to argue about it, mystifies me. All it ever was, is a "rule of thumb", some reference point, in the absence of agreement otherwise, and it is, in some way or another, something that virtually everyone who dates much has heard about. However, it was never a "rule of law", and no one is "required" to follow it. By the same token, if you are dating someone, and he "takes the hint" and stops calling after date 3, it shouldn't be a surprise. To mention it was directly responsive to the OT.
BTW, it's not something that "just came up from a group of guys". One theory has it, that it grew out of the feminist movement, as a "no hassle" way of ending a dating relationship, empowering women to end things, without having an "awkward" conversation. If so, it wouldn't be surprising, as it dates back to the early 70s, at the tail end of the "free love" era, as a sort of replacement for women to use as a guide.
In any case, you will find extensive articles about it on the web, and source material that goes back over 30 years. So, it's not as if it is something that "no one" has ever heard of. It's just not talked about much, even by those who routinely reference it in their own lives as a way to gauge a new relationship.
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| Please explain to me sex and dating rules
Posted: 11/29/2007 9:33:32 AM |
Well, listen to Dr. Melofelo. Where did you get your degree from?
Which one?
However, it doesn't require that one have academic credentials to research this topic. Source material is readily available on the web, or if you prefer, in libraries in written form, both popular and academic.
The OP said she is new to dating again, and asked to know what's common in dating. Do you have something to contribute towards a discussion of customs and practices in dating for the newly divorced, or not? I have neither advocated, nor criticized, the "3 date rule", but it's something worth knowing about, as a reference point, for someone who is "new again" to the whole process. | |
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| Please explain to me sex and dating rules
Posted: 11/29/2007 9:37:33 AM | | Rules, shmules!! There are no rules. When two people meet and like each other, they decide on what happens and when, and it is nobody else's business. 3-day rule, what a crock of crap. Stop brainwashing people into believing there are all these phony rules we all have to go by. Use your heart and your brain and if you care about someone, make your own rules. Sex, sex, sex, all anyone thinks about. What about love and caring and making your own rules about when to have sex with the person you care about. Could be the first date or the 100th date, who cares. Do what fits the two of you. | |
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| Please explain to me sex and dating rules
Posted: 11/29/2007 10:12:41 AM | Well, first, money does open up allot of more avenues compared to people who don't have it. I'm sure theere are women out there who will put up with such behavior with a man who has money. You know as well as I do, that if I made 1o0k a year, my options would be much more wider. With such oppuriunities, knowing that women will pass along quite frequently, perhaps he didn't care. If you werent gonna put out, he'd find someone who would. Why? Because he has money and he can.
Money doesn't teach humility, kindness or decency. | |
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| Please explain to me sex and dating rules
Posted: 11/29/2007 10:52:10 AM |
Okay, I am 47 years old, and nothing seems to have changed since I was a young girl.
funny how the more things change the more they stay the same huh | |
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| Please explain to me sex and dating rules
Posted: 11/29/2007 11:03:42 AM | MONEY should never define your character. Humility should. I don't care 'who' you are...if you are nice, kind and sincere - you have my respect. No one will ever win me over with their bank account.
However, as sad as it is...MONEY does define people. Some people think they have a right to treat others poorly because they have the luxury car in driveway, a big boat at bay and marble floors.
Let's say this man didn't have money? There are men out there who still act like this and they aren't rich. It's called EGO. Chalk it off as bad character/morals and find the next fish honey.
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| Please explain to me sex and dating rules
Posted: 11/29/2007 3:09:53 PM |
There is no rules. Do what ya want when it feels right.
I have two problems with your answer, lela haha. First, the OP asked for input on what is normative in dating, seeking what others have found to be generally true, or "rules of thumb" about dating, because she has been away from it for a long time. There are, in fact, things that are generally valid guidelines, and sharing those with her is "on topic".
Secondly, if anyone enters into a dating relationship, focused only on self, it isn't going to work well. You suggested that the only guideline is what she feels and when she feels it's right. OK, and if a man does only what he feels, when he feels is right, how well is that going to work? Forming a relationship is to be aware of, and responsive to the needs of the other, as well as one's own. If it is two people, each only caring about self, there's no room left for an "us". | |
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| Please explain to me sex and dating rules
Posted: 11/29/2007 3:27:53 PM | If a guys "grabbing" at you on the first..even second..even third date, he's "grabbing"
at his secretary, waitress, your friends. He's just playing the numbers.
Some will (and did) fall for it or go along. It's worked before, it will work again is his theory.
We used to love people and use things...some people get it backward.
Good luck and don't under estimate the gardener. He might make you happier than
you've ever been. | |
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| Please explain to me sex and dating rules
Posted: 11/29/2007 3:51:27 PM | | Yes I know exactly where you are coming from....so many guys tend to think of their own needs and forget about the female perspective. It seems to apply to guys from all parts of the spectrum. I think you have to make it clear from the off set off that you are not just after sex, and if you feel that you cannot trust the guy in question then dont get into that situation.... I know it is easier said than done, I believe that you have to make a man respect you and listen to your needs, if he does not then he is not worth it. After all if he expects you to sleep with him straight away, that shows that he is a bit of a player and thinks you are as well...... demand that respect. Hope that helps you. | |
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| Please explain to me sex and dating rules
Posted: 11/29/2007 3:55:23 PM |
if he expects you to sleep with him straight away, that shows that he is a bit of a player and thinks you are as well......
If it's consensual, no one is a "player", and if two people feel a sexual need, and choose to meet each other's needs "straightaway", that's fine.
The OP described a situation in which she was pressured and pawed, against her wishes, and from there, asked about the norms in dating. No one should be "pressured" in a dating relationship, neither the woman for coerced sex, nor the man for coerced celibacy. | |
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| Please explain to me sex and dating rules
Posted: 11/29/2007 4:40:58 PM |
melofelo
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
jeez u go on, i think everyone gets the point
Tashie, you're right, and I don't want to get into a side topic in this thread. It's irritating, though, to read some woman referring to two adults, who choose to have sex, as "players". It kind stretches the meaning of the word "player" to apply to anyone who has a normal interest in sex, so it's hard not to be reactive. | |
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