| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 4:47:28 PM | Getting a bit tired of the whole Bush/Iraq/WMD debate. So how about something new we can all disagree upon....National Health Care.
My post, I'll go first.
I hate the idea. I've been to countries that have national (read 'socialized') health care, and while it's great that anyone can go into a hospital for care, the quality of care is atrocious.
Another point, I'm happy with the amount of taxes I pay now, a nationalized health care would dramatically increase the amount I'm taxed....
anyone else? | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 4:51:53 PM | I disagree.... but I would settle for a National HeathCare "Group" that
everyone could buy into (like you get at your place of employment)
at an affordable price... not nesessarily a Government-run system
like Canada and other countries have... | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 4:56:07 PM | | So, you'd support a HMO sponsored by the Fed? I couldn't agree with that at all. I don't trust the gov't to put together a peanut butter sandwich correctly, much less an HMO. | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 4:58:31 PM | I am with Shan on this one! Health insurance rates are astronomical and HMOS are making billions and I personally would like to see an insurance program that can be afforded by everyone and still recieve quality health care. As much as a government run medical plan may sound appealing, I do not think it will ever happen. Since Clinton left office, talk about that type of plan has been pretty much obsolete. Could be HMO's are huge lobbyists of the Republican party.  | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 5:00:18 PM | No... not HMOs exactly.... like I have Priority Heath and I used to have United Healthcare...
where you could pick your own doctors who except the Insurance coverage.
The book of doctors I can pick through is pretty much every doctor in town.
What do you think should be done? Nothing? You do know that in the end
you are getting screwed by people not having medical insurance that go
to the hospitals and don't/can't pay thier bills right? In the end you are paying
for them... through your own high prices of Healthcare Insurance... | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 5:02:45 PM | | Actually, I used to live in Hawaii, and our state had very stringent laws regarding healthcare. Every employer had to provide healthcare plans to their employees and were required to pay a substantial amount of the coverage (I only had to pay for 20 percent of my insurance rates) I felt it was very effective. | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 5:04:45 PM | ^^^ That would be awesome... but its never going to happen nationwide.
So was it everyone who had a job or only full-time employees? What about
people who can't work? Or the Elderly... or kids whos parent's are lazy bums? | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 5:07:00 PM |
What do you think should be done? Nothing? You do know that in the end
you are getting screwed by people not having medical insurance that go
to the hospitals and don't/can't pay thier bills right? In the end you are paying
for them... through your own high prices of Healthcare Insurance...
I think something should be done, but edging ever closer to socialism is not the right answer. The people who abuse the medical system by not paying their bills do contribute to the problem of rising healthcare costs, but I believe that a larger problem is the wanton use of medical malpractice suits. One of the reasons that doctors demand such high pay is that they have to pay exorbitant malpractice insurance premiums. It's the health insurance companies and their policies that are the problem here. | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 5:10:16 PM |
So was it everyone who had a job or only full-time employees? What about
people who can't work? Or the Elderly... or kids whos parent's are lazy bums?
it's been a while since I was there, but i believe the law covered you as long as long as you work 20 hours a week. The elderly are covered by medicare.
People who can't work? who? why can't they work? Are they disabled? If so they are covered by medicare. If they can't work because they are lazy, then that's another thread.
Kids? Actually, here in florida healthcare for children can be attained for free through HealthyKidsFlorida (I believe). | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 5:13:33 PM | It's the health insurance companies and their policies that are the problem here.
I do not disagree with that statement at all whatsoever.... but
I think insurance companies take advantage of the current situation as
well... its not all due to dead-beat patients and malpractice.
I think thats where the Government needs to step in and do a little
regulating... they do it with my electric and gas bills they should be
doing it with my Healthcare costs as that is a necessity as well....
I'm not really sure how they should fix it but something needs to be done
to make sure little kids, old people and part-time workers can get the
healthcare they need. | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 5:21:23 PM | If so they are covered by medicare
For now... we shall see how long it lasts... kinda like Social Security....
but i believe the law covered you as long as long as you work 20 hours a week.
See... I think that is a good law. Because some people can't find full time jobs, so
they have 2-3 part-time jobs but still don't get healthcare. But then of course
which job would cover it... regardless this would be a good solution...
If every State had provisions for Children and People who work over 20 hrs a week
and it was affordable (not sucking up half of your paycheck) then I'd say fine.
We don't need a national healthcare intervention..... but that is not the case. | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 5:22:35 PM | DAMN, can't come up with a good argument to your first point, however.....
old people are covered by health care (oooooh a gov't healthcare organization at that)
what is your definition of little kids? at what age do we expect people to start paying for their healthcare? The problem with free healthcare is that is sooooo similiar to welfare which seems to make the people who are on it more dependent on the gov't instead of enabling them to become independent. | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 5:25:14 PM |
I think we should go a year without health care of any kind, and gain some perspective, then figure out a plan.
and this would prove what? provide what kind of perspective? | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 5:26:11 PM |
My post, I'll go first.
I hate the idea. I've been to countries that have national (read 'socialized') health care, and while it's great that anyone can go into a hospital for care, the quality of care is atrocious.
Another point, I'm happy with the amount of taxes I pay now, a nationalized health care would dramatically increase the amount I'm taxed....
anyone else?
I disagree. When I was working in Spain, I paid comparatively speaking, far lower taxes than I do here. In return for my taxes, I got health care that was my right, I got a safety net in case I lost my job, I got the most wonderful inexpensive and fast public transportation that got me to work without 1.5 hours of stop-and-go bumper-to-bumper each way and let my car be used for pleasure rather than necessity, and so much more. I got my money's worth while paying less.
And what do I get for the taxes I'm paying here? Well, I'll tell you.... I get Abu Ghraib scandals, I get to make the Cheneys and De Lays of the GOP richer than they already are, I get to pay Republican buffoons in Washington while they plan who else to land missiles on, I get to give welfare to corporations (so elegantly called "subsidies"), and so on.
Now I have 2 questions for you. Which country with socialized health care did you live in, and which city and state do you live in now? | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 5:26:19 PM |
what is your definition of little kids? at what age do we expect people to start paying for their healthcare?
Kids should never have to pay for Healthcare... if their parents
do not have it there should be something to provide for them
until they reach 18.... kids shouldn't suffer because thier
parents don't have healthcare for whatever reason.... | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 5:29:01 PM | So, you'd support a HMO sponsored by the Fed? I couldn't agree with that at all. I don't trust the gov't to put together a peanut butter sandwich correctly, much less an HMO.
Hmmm... either the govt can be trusted to run things efficiently, or it can't. You can't have it both ways. Therefore, if you don't trust the govt to run anything efficiently, why aren't we privatizing the military?
Because _____________________________________________________ <-- fill in the blank | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 5:31:40 PM | Having grown up in socialist Germany I have to say that every civilized, modern country should have universal healthcare for all its citizens, regardless of emplyment status or income, period! Anything less is just barbaric! How many people end up homeless because a familiy member gets a serious illness? How many people forego regular check-ups because of the high cost? It's simply unacceptable! Healthcare (and dental care, too, IMO) should be considered a basic human right. All the money they're now wasting on illegal immigrants (they get free health care, as well as schooling for their kids, etc.) could/should be used for US citizens and legal permanent residents. No need to raise taxes.
Ninki
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 5:32:37 PM |
Now I have 2 questions for you. Which country with socialized health care did you live in, and which city and state do you live in now?
1) Germany, the facilities while clean left much to desired as far as quality health care goes. Their first answer is holistic medicine. My ex-wife had terrible skin allergies. The first time she went to an American Doctor, he prescrbied Benedryl creme (one of the most common anti-allergy medicines around) which she had never had before. It cleared up her allergies completely, the Germans tried for 23 years and couldn't figure out what to do.
During her pregnancy, she acquired gestational diabetes, but the doctors didn't figure it out until she went into DKA (shock for a diabetic, it can be quite deadly)
2) I live in florida, why? | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 5:33:31 PM | | In the US people don't think in terms of caring for one another, and view such obligations as unfair burdens. We like the freedom from having to worry about the welfare of our fellow citizens. There is nothing that will enrage a working man quicker than the idea he is paying for something for someone else. | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 5:36:04 PM | | The idea of dropping health care is to give people the chance to see what life is like when sick people die. Maybe after they see past their own lives to notice the effect on their neighborhoods and larger communities, they will begin to consider it wise to care about everyone and not treat health care selfishly. I realize what would happen instead would be that people would just learn to watch others suffer and die without letting it bother them, So it's a bad idea. I withdraw it. | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 5:36:41 PM | @Ninki
So where does the money come from if the gov't doesn't raise taxes.
I love our medical system here in the US. It is clean, usually respectful, and efficient. The problem is the rising cost of it. Shann had a great point, to which I whole-heartedly agree, the gov't needs to regulate the cost of medical insurance, not revamp the whole system. | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 5:47:10 PM |
1) Germany, the facilities while clean left much to desired as far as quality health care goes. Their first answer is holistic medicine. My ex-wife had terrible skin allergies. The first time she went to an American Doctor, he prescrbied Benedryl creme (one of the most common anti-allergy medicines around) which she had never had before. It cleared up her allergies completely, the Germans tried for 23 years and couldn't figure out what to do.
During her pregnancy, she acquired gestational diabetes, but the doctors didn't figure it out until she went into DKA (shock for a diabetic, it can be quite deadly)
2) I live in florida, why?
So your assessment of medicine in socialized countries comes from your wife's unfortunate incidents with allergies and gestational diabetes.
I'm curious, do you have any idea at all what malpractice percentages are like in the U.S.? (Ask me! Ask me! I worked with a malpractice attorney as a paralegal).
2) I was just curious in asking where you were from. I'm from Florida too.  Florida is one of the states with the biggest number of millionaires and the largest number of people living in poverty. (I had to throw that in for fun).
3) I have a question for you which has nothing to do with politics. Gestational diabetes is very very serious and a very very out of control disease. Was your wife overweight when she conceived her child? I've noticed that women who end up in gestational diabetes are usually overweight before conceiving and during pregnancy end up with GD. I have a friend here in Miami that was about 60 lbs overweight when she ended up pregnant. 5 months into the pregnancy she developed gestational diabetes. Soon it was way out of control. The doctors tried to control it in numerous ways. They even brought in other doctors. Before long she had to take a leave of absence from the law firm to go home and be away from stress and to better try to control the swinging blood values. Despite this, she ended up with her heart stopping as a Caesarean was performed on her. She survived, but she went through a lot. | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 5:48:30 PM |
In the US people don't think in terms of caring for one another, and view such obligations as unfair burdens. We like the freedom from having to worry about the welfare of our fellow citizens. There is nothing that will enrage a working man quicker than the idea he is paying for something for someone else.
In the U.S. conservatives believe that our taxes belong in the pockets of corporations and the rich. Never that the taxes should come back to us in the form of protection. | |
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