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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall
Posted: 12/5/2007 7:07:55 PM | Not a real good Christmassy story. 19 year old gets arrested on a couple of misdemeanours in late November, facing arraignment on the 19th of this month, loses his job at Macdonalds.
"""...At 4:30 p.m., Rollie Yost, in the Sarpy County Sheriff's Office, said shortly after the shooting, Hawkins' mother walked into its office with a note that "could be interpreted as suicidal." The note said Hawkins was "going to go out and be famous," authorities said."""
Shooter Remembered By Friends, Landlord
http://www.ketv.com/news/14785654/detail.html
Nine killed in shooting at Omaha mall, including gunman
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/05/mall.shooting/index.html | |
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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall
Posted: 12/5/2007 8:38:30 PM | | The last four incidents of mall mass killings were all in the South and Midwest where they have liberal gun permit laws...UT..GA...MO and now NE....There have been no mass gun killings in those states with stricter gun control laws..Those states like MD, MA, RI, ME, NH, VT..What does that tell you about the effectiveness of gun control laws??...If they are regulated, unstable people and teenagers have less assess to guns and therefore using them against people | |
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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall
Posted: 12/5/2007 8:52:40 PM | | Eat Me, Drink Me is Marilyn Manson's sixth studio album, released worldwide on June 5, 2007. Omg it's now Dec 5th! Anyone Else seeing a connection?!11one This is all Manson's Fault! | |
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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall
Posted: 12/5/2007 8:57:34 PM | | Your theory is equivalent to swiss cheese Cape. How bout waiting till we hear some more facts before you start your banter so soon? | |
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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall
Posted: 12/5/2007 9:08:06 PM |
There have been no mass gun killings in those states with stricter gun control laws..Those states like MD, MA, RI, ME, NH, VT..What does that tell you about the effectiveness of gun control laws?? All yankee states... and wouldn't ya know a yankee would bring up gun control. | |
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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall
Posted: 12/5/2007 11:10:42 PM |
What does that tell you about the effectiveness of gun control laws??
It tells me that out of the 50 states in the union, 46 of them didn't have mall shootings (92%), and that you're probably relatively safe with the current laws.
For all you know, he got the gun in one of the states you mentioned.
I am more or less neutral on the issue-I don't own a firearm, but I respect the rights of those who chose to own them.
Your generalizations are way too broad, and I am pretty sure you have no clue about the actual gun control laws in these states. Please define "stricter" as it pertains to each and every state, right here in this forum, if you're going to manipulate an incident like this for your own agenda. | |
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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall
Posted: 12/6/2007 12:39:10 AM | Cape?
Maybe the discussion should be more about the guns people are allowed to own vs stricter gun control laws. I for one see NO reason why someone should be allowed to have a semi-automatic rifle like the SK this punk used.
A hand gun? A Rifle? Fine. We do need stricter gun control laws. The weapons that were used should NOT be in the hands of an irresponsible person not trained and entrusted with the publics well being.
An example was the Virginia Tech horror story. Sick people shoul not be allowed to have these things. | |
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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall
Posted: 12/6/2007 12:47:42 AM |
The weapons that were used should NOT be in the hands of an irresponsible person not trained
I am just wondering if you mean not trained in how to use the firearm?
If you do Say to say. I would rather a person who is untrained in using one than one that is trained?
Yes I have been trained using weapons. | |
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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall
Posted: 12/6/2007 3:19:41 AM | Last I heard murder was against the law. So if this guy doesn't respect that law, why would you think he would respect any gun control laws? Criminals will always have access to firearms.
If there was one other person at that mall with a firearm other than the gunman, perhaps the death toll would have been much smaller. | |
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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall
Posted: 12/6/2007 4:00:17 AM | | How any of you guys can defend the right to bear arms absolutely amazes me. Coming from the UK i can't remember the last mass shooting we had (was it Hungerford 1987 prior to stricter laws regarding handguns, please correct me if i'm wrong, even if i am wrong i know we have had very few incindents of this kind). I know the UK is tiny compared to the States but i think it tells a story, if you ask me allowing people to carry arms is asking for trouble, i mean do all the people who carry arms have to have a regular check up of their mental health - i don't think so - enough said!!!!!! | |
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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall
Posted: 12/6/2007 4:47:48 AM | I think gun laws come into the equation...but not the same way you think. I mean, why are these people going on these shootings? What is in their environment that's making them do this? Maybe he's being bullied at school, and because of the zero-tolerance rules, he can't fight back?
Furthermore, where the frick was junior's parents?
Sorry dude, we don't know all the story. But you can guarantee that heavy metal, videogames, comic books, violent movies and Dungeons and Dragons will take the rap. Again.
Because politicians are more irresponsible than the average latchkey parent these days. | |
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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall
Posted: 12/6/2007 5:02:54 AM | | I disagree dude, if you read my thread you'd see why, how can letting ordinary people roam the streets with guns be a good idea, ok so you can protect yourself from guys like that - ironic as if they weren't legal he probably wouldn't have got his hands on a gun in the first place!!, but theres far more potential for them to get into the wrong hands, as i said before whats to stop a perfectly sain person with a gun losing the plot so to speak and going on a shooting spree, absolutely nothing. I really do not understand how anyone can justify America's crazy gun laws? | |
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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall
Posted: 12/6/2007 6:52:42 AM | Five people were injured with two of them still in critical condition. Here's a bit more background on the shooter:
""".. Chief Thomas Warren of the Omaha Police Department called the shooting "premeditated," but said it "appears to be very random and without provocation."
Debora Maruca Kovac, Hawkins' landlord, said she found the suicide note after getting a phone call from Hawkins about 1 p.m., just minutes before the shootings. "He basically said how sorry he was for everything," Maruca Kovac said of the note. "He didn't want to be a burden to people and that he was a piece of s--- all of his life and that now he'd be famous."
She said Hawkins was a friend of her sons and "reminded me of a lost puppy that nobody wanted." He came to live with her about a year and a half ago, telling her he could not stay with his own family because of "some issues with his stepmother."
She described Hawkins as well-behaved, although "he had a lot of emotional problems, obviously." Maruca Kovac told the Omaha World-Herald that Hawkins showed her an SKS semiautomatic Russian military rifle the night before the rampage, but she wasn't alarmed.
Wednesday about 11 a.m., and called the house about two hours later, sounding upset.
"He just said he wanted to thank me for everything I'd done for him ... and he was sorry," Maruca Kovac said. He told her he had gotten fired from his job at a McDonald's restaurant, she said. "I said, 'Come home and we'll talk about it,' " she recounted. "He said, 'It's too late.' He said he'd left a note explaining everything."
Maruca Kovac said Hawkins' mental state seemed to be improving but he had been through a rough patch recently.
"When he first came to live with us, he was in the fetal position and chewed his fingernails all the time," she said. But she said she thought he was improving, as he had gotten a job, a haircut and a girlfriend. However, she said Hawkins and his girlfriend had broken up in the last couple of weeks, and he had taken it hard. Then he got fired from McDonald's on Wednesday...."""
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/06/mall.shooting/index.html?iref=mpstoryview
landlord describe phone call from shooter »
http://tinyurl.com/2n5bok | |
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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall
Posted: 12/6/2007 7:07:35 AM | Gun control ? No, what we need is nutbar control.
Montreal, Canada and Finland (can't remember the city) are two places that have relatively tight gun control. Didn't seem to stop anybody there from getting a gun and blasting away. I'm not actually defending firearms here because I happen to think that countries with strict controls on who can own any are better off. That said, apparently where there's a will there's a way. Maybe if we instituted a policy of not naming these nuts in the papers the moment they capped off the first round the whole thing wouldn't be such an attractive idea. After all, they always seem to do it for the fame more than anything and really, does their name mean a damned thing to anybody but those immediately impacted by the shootings ? No, not really. How could it ? Don't worry though, I'm sure there will be plenty of people out there who will defend the idea that we need to make them famous by splashing their mass-murdering names all across the world's information media. After all, it's the public's right to know isn't it ?  | |
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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall
Posted: 12/6/2007 7:28:37 AM | ^^^"""...After all, they always seem to do it for the fame more than anything ..."""
Absolutely in this case. This kid specifically told his landlady he was going to go become someone famous.
Must be very confusing for some people. We put these social derelicts like Paris Hilton and Brittany Spears and Michael Vick up on a stage when they're behaviour is deviant and abnormal, and in a perverse sort of way, it seems the audience is entertained and applauds by buying more and more into the stories. And so every night we get inundated with these people making the news by being, for lack of a better word, just bad folk.
I'm absolutely flabbergasted for example, that a murder committed some 13 years ago (the OJ case) is actually on the bestseller's list this year for books. People just seem to feed off this crap.
Garbage in. Garbage out.
These stories always leave me a bit numb. Starting years ago with the Columbine shoortings and this past spring in Virginia tech. I couldn't give a diddle about their names. I'll have probably forgotten this kid's name this time next month. But the story stays and leaves an impression on probably more than just me. I can just picture my sisters and mum now going shopping half terrified someone's going to gun them all down while they're trying on clothes or something.
I just sit and wonder what series of events have taken place to have this type of mayhem become so fairly common. I think it's a societal issue moreso than a gun control issue, but there's bits and pices of several issues when these things crop up. | |
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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall
Posted: 12/6/2007 7:30:34 AM | A sad & unfortunate incident indeed, once more an unstable person with no regard for human life decides his miserable little live is no longer worth living and decides to end it with a bang.
Not surprisingly people will immediately try to blame the so called lax gun laws that allowed this situation to occur, when actually it was the restrictive nature of our current gun laws that prevented people from being able to defend themselves.
Watch the news, listen to the accounts of people that were in the mall, everyone of them described how they ran, or hid in fitting rooms or behind cloths racks, in short they were reduced to little more than helpless, defenseless prey while a predator stalked and killed them at his leisure.
And the police, well as is typical in these cases they showed up just in time to fill out the paper work and break out the body bags. (Not a dig at the police as I’m sure they wish they could have done more, it’s just the nature of these types of crimes.)
This Mall, like so many other places was probably a so called ‘Gun Free Zone’ therefore the honest law abiding citizens just out for a day of shopping left their guns at home or in their cars, leaving themselves vulnerable to someone who sees a gun free zone as an inviting target rich environment of helpless sheepeople.
If you don't like cops (or armed citizens), the next time you're in danger-- call a hippie!
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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall
Posted: 12/6/2007 7:40:36 AM | | Gun control has nothing to do with any of this at all . Cape ,remember" McDermitt" here in Mass I guess you don't There is really no way of heading off a person hell bent on destroying someones life of lives in my opinion .If everyone had a gun. Everyone over the age of 18 ,there would be alot less crime. People would think before they did something stupid . He may have only gotten 2 people if we put my law in affect. Strict gun laws just make it harder for law enforcement to track the origin of a weapon, Not to mention drive up the demand on the black market. | |
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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall
Posted: 12/6/2007 8:30:41 AM | i think its a bit too soon to politicize this tragedy - the victims are barely cold and pundits on both sides are making their tired opinions known.
cape, Im from MA and have had the unfortunate experience of being shot. that said, I oppose the laws we have in this commonwealth regarding discretionary licensing for gun owners and concealed weapons holders. I hold the right to self defence as sacrosanct.
additionally, if we want to talk laws - we could easily prevent legal arms sales to psychotics - cho at VA tech comes to mind. if the NICS check revealed that a judge remanded him to a psyche eval, the pawn shop could have denied the sale of his glock and walther. waive the HIPAA protections for NICS and youve prevented one more maggot from being armed. | |
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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall
Posted: 12/6/2007 12:02:04 PM | I'll probably comment more on this later when I have some down time, but I was cruising this article on lunch and found an interesting tidbit:
This shooting happened in another (you guessed it) GUN FREE ZONE! More targets with the less chance of armed bystanders intervening.
Sure, he was bound to take his own life and go out "famous", but just putting myself in his shoes as a hypothetical: I'd rather shoot at someone that I knew probably wasn't going to shoot back at me. Gun free zone = gold mine. | |
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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall
Posted: 12/6/2007 5:02:27 PM |
The last four incidents of mall mass killings were all in the South and Midwest where they have liberal gun permit laws...UT..GA...MO and now NE....There have been no mass gun killings in those states with stricter gun control laws..Those states like MD, MA, RI, ME, NH, VT..What does that tell you about the effectiveness of gun control laws??...If they are regulated, unstable people and teenagers have less assess to guns and therefore using them against people
There are several problems with this post. First, Missouri is one of the worst gun control states in the country. Others include Maryland, New York, New Jersey, and Washington, D.C. These states all saw their violent crime rates increase dramatically as they've made it more difficult to conceal and carry. Liberal gun laws usually refer to strict gun control, since liberal politicians generally make it as difficult as possible for private citizens to obtain and carry hand guns.
In countries like Australia, Britain, Canada, and Jamiaca, where private citizens have been disarmed, violent crime rates have increased, not gone down.
New Hampshire (where I live) and Vermont top the list for shall issue. That is to say, anyone without a criminal record is guaranteed the right to carry. Vermont doesn't even require a CWP. In general, criminals tend to get access to various weapons whether it is legal for them to do so or not. According to an extensive study by John R. Lott Jr, only three things are proven to deter and reduce violent crime: increased penalties, increased likelihood of being caught and convicted, and the fear that their potential victims will be armed.
In practice, liberal politicians (and the judges and prosecutors they appoint) tend to make all of these problems worse. Consequently, it's not just the taxes that are higher in politically liberal jurisdictions, but the crime rates as well. This was an accusation I heard but did not believe until I, myself, began getting involved in state and local politics. | |
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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall
Posted: 12/6/2007 5:31:34 PM | This is yet another sad story.
My question is what is happenning to our young men, that everytime life throws them a curve ball, the rest of the world has to suffer?
I feel for him, that he felt like such a 'nobody' and that in order to feel like 'somebody' he had to commit such a heinous act.
I feel for the families whose loved ones were so viciously gunned down.
How are we going to stop this from happening again?
Brandie46 | |
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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall
Posted: 12/6/2007 7:24:59 PM |
This is yet another sad story
Yes it is. This kid was obviously at the end of his rope. I feel bad for all who suffered yesterday at that mall, but yes, I do feel bad for this kid as well. Life's tough out there and it seemed like there was no one for him to turn to. The world can be a lonely place, even in amongst a country of 300 million folks. That's why it's almost time for my annual viewings of "It's a Wonderful Life" I think I'll think of kid's like this one a bit this year when I watch it.
Prayers for all the families involved. | |
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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall
Posted: 12/6/2007 9:42:38 PM | ""And the police, well as is typical in these cases they showed up just in time to fill out the paper work and break out the body bags. (Not a dig at the police as I’m sure they wish they could have done more, it’s just the nature of these types of crimes.)""
Our law inforcement in this state (NE) responded immediately and in this case within 6 MINUTES. How could they have gotten there any faster???? In a town of 500,000, like Omaha, to get a response this quick is incredible and by the time they were there, the whole incident was over. No one had time to react, much less respond. What would anyone's first response be when you're out for a day of shopping and suddenly chaos errupts with gunfire??? I'm thinking the hippies out there would do everything possible to protect their stash of pot first and run second.
I have been to this mall in Omaha where this incident took place. It's a large mall with over 130 stores. Unless you place security everywhere, it's impossible to keep it completely safe. Most malls in every town are privately owned and the cost of taking measures to protect them are too great for most companies. The government can only recommend measures to change security,; they can't regulate them.
Do we need stricter gun control in Nebraska. Absolutely! But, bottom line is, no matter how strict gun laws are, pychos will get firearms anyway they can by stealing, borrowing or buying etc..The only way to prevent this from happening is to outlaw guns all together for the public. Our founding fathers had no idea what would occur when they created our 'right to bear arms'.
Our state is mourning the loss of 8 incredible people by the hands of a very troubled youth. Not sure where to place the blame for this happening, but one things for sure, the town of Omaha will be forever changed. | |
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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall
Posted: 12/6/2007 10:49:42 PM | If we had more conceal/carry, after the first shot, someone pulls out their gun and drops this lawbreaker, end of story....
However it is illegal to carry a gun into a public place like a mall.....his second crime.
How did he get the gun? Most mentally ill people are not allowed to have guns...his first crime.
Most big cities like NYC, LA, Chicago, Detriot, etc... have very strict gun laws, especially handguns, yet the criminals seem to kill hundreds each year. Maybe we should be stricter with the criminals who commit crimes with guns, instead of the revolving door prison/justice system we have now. | |
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