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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/7/2007 8:19:59 PM | { QUOTE "Jer 1:12............I am ready to perform My Word.
Jn 16:24..........Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full.
Mt 21:22..........whatever things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.
Jer 33:3..........Call to Me, and I will answer you, and show you great and mighty things...
Jn 14:14..........If you ask anything in my name, I will do it.
Jn 16:23..........whatever you ask the Father in My name He will give you.
Jas 5:16..........The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.
Job 22:27........You will make your prayer to Him, He will hear you...
1Jn 5:14..........Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.
1Jn 5:15..........And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him.
Jn 14:13..........And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Isa 55:11.........So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; it shall not return void, but it shall accomplish what I please, and it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.
Jn 15:7............If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you.
Mt 18:18..........Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Mt 18:19..........Again I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven.
Jn 15:16..........You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.
Jer 29:12..........Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you.
Isa 65:24..........It shall come to pass that before they call, I will answer, and while they are speaking I will hear.
Ps 91:15..........He shall call upon Me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him and honor him.
Ps 141:2..........Let my prayer be set before You as incense, the lifting of my hands as the evening sacrifice." QUOTE ENDS}
There seems to be a lot of theories on why prayer is not answered. Above is listed some promise`s , given to us in scripture about prayer.
Ever have an unanswered prayer? Why does that happen do you think ,when there are so many promises that God answers prayer?
You know, for several months, I have realized that no matter how I look at things, the scriptures have to be lieing in one way or another. For example, there are those that claim that there are only the elect that are saved. Well then the verse from John 3:16 is a lie, for it says " WHOSOVER" , with out qualification.
Show me I am wrong, would love to discover that, but no matter how I look at it, unanswered prayer will prove one verse or another is a lie.
What do you think? | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/7/2007 8:54:32 PM | A very wise man once said "you can't always get what you want, you get what you need." Prayer is not meant to be selfish. It sounds like you've prayed for something specific and haven't received it. Maybe you have, just not the way you thought it should come to you.
Bluezzz | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/7/2007 8:58:13 PM | I read about this. It's called "Looking for answers". G-d answers you. But She's a bit like my driving instructor. I keep asking him what to do. He says "do this", and I don't do it. Then he tells me again. I don't do it, again. I get very, very frustrated. Eventually, I just start doing what he says, and it works. Sometimes, it takes me a bit to figure out that I'm just not paying attention to doing what he says. But when I do, it works.
G-d's a bit like that too. Sometimes, we just aren't paying attention to the answer.
Stop looking for an answer. Start listening to the answer. Then you'll hear it. | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/7/2007 9:19:54 PM | {QUOTE " A very wise man once said "you can't always get what you want, you get what you need." Prayer is not meant to be selfish. It sounds like you've prayed for something specific and haven't received it. Maybe you have, just not the way you thought it should come to you." END OF QUOTE }
Ok , I understand the logic to that. How ever about 6 months ago, I became aware of something rather strange. I am involved in a topic off this site, dealing with disallusioned Christains. Anyway, was shocked one night to realize that of the approximately 100 believers I have talked to over the last 5 years, not one has met anyone. Yet, when I grouped the nonbeleievrs, secular freinds, every one had met someone.
It just doesnt make any sense to me , doesnt add up. Why on earth is this the case?
{quote" I read about this. It's called "Looking for answers". G-d answers you. But She's a bit like my driving instructor. I keep asking him what to do. He says "do this", and I don't do it. Then he tells me again. I don't do it, again. I get very, very frustrated. Eventually, I just start doing what he says, and it works. Sometimes, it takes me a bit to figure out that I'm just not paying attention to doing what he says. But when I do, it works.
G-d's a bit like that too. Sometimes, we just aren't paying attention to the answer.
Stop looking for an answer. Start listening to the answer. Then you'll hear it. " QUOTE ENDS}
Ok, so its like a test? Get it right and the answer will come to you? Thats a bit like giving someone a christmas present, but you hide it in their garage , hope they find it one day. If I promise some one something, shouldnt they have reasonable expectations that I will let them know that what they requested is delivered? | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/7/2007 9:52:05 PM | God always answers your prayers. He always answers with yes, no, or wait.
Of course if you pray to a milk jug you'll get the same three answers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk6ILZAaAMI | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/7/2007 11:20:12 PM |
Ok , I understand the logic to that. How ever about 6 months ago, I became aware of something rather strange. I am involved in a topic off this site, dealing with disallusioned Christains. Anyway, was shocked one night to realize that of the approximately 100 believers I have talked to over the last 5 years, not one has met anyone. Yet, when I grouped the nonbeleievrs, secular freinds, every one had met someone.
It just doesnt make any sense to me , doesnt add up. Why on earth is this the case? They are disillusioned. They are simply not looking. Plus, the Christians are really looking for marriage to other Christians and only that, and that makes it much harder, but they probably aren't searching for that. The secular people are just looking for what they could get, and putting themselves out there, to anyone. So, they are making the effort.
There is a joke I once heard that illustrates this: A man's house is caught in a flood, so he sits on the roof.
Along comes a man in a row-boat who offers to take him to safety. The man says: "I don't need your row-boat. G-d will save me".
Along comes a man in a speed-boat who offers to take him to safety. The man says: "I don't need your speed-boat. G-d will save me".
Along comes a helicopter. The man says: "I don't need a helicopter. G-d will save me".
The man drowns. When he gets upstairs, he asks G-d: "G-d, I trusted You. Why didn't You save me?"
G-d says: "What do you mean? I sent you a row-boat, a speed-boat, and a helicopter. How much more help did you need?"
Ok, so its like a test? Get it right and the answer will come to you? Thats a bit like giving someone a christmas present, but you hide it in their garage , hope they find it one day. If I promise some one something, shouldnt they have reasonable expectations that I will let them know that what they requested is delivered? Not before it's been delivered. Like when your dad promises you a really good Xmas pressie. But he hides it in the garage, till Xmas day, 'cause it's too big to fit under the tree. You go looking for it the night before Xmas, and can't find it. So you look in the garage. You find this really big present, and you think it's for your brother, 'cause your dad would never get you that amazing a present. You get so annoyed that you haven't got a present, that you smash it. The next day, your dad tells you that your present is in the garage. Stupid, huh? Could have had a really great pressie, if you just didn't lose your cool.
Prayer is asking. The answer is not obvious. Why is the answer not obvious? Because if it was that easy, you would get it for yourself. So, when you pray to G-d, you are usually asking for something that G-d just cannot hand to you on a platter.
My best friend was set up by a blind date by her mother. You can imagine how she felt. She threw away the guy's #. Her mother asked her 2 weeks later if she called the guy, and gave her his # again, and ordered her to ring him, or else. She rang, they went out. They've been married 6 years. You've never seen a happier couple. All that from a blind date. | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/8/2007 2:18:56 AM | I would imagine a good analogy would be if you were to ask God to bring you the woman of your dreams, someone who was everything you'd ever want, who was beautiful, would love you and stand beside you, take care of you and you her... then you'd really be happy and life for you would be complete.... and you wait, and wait, and wait... and no woman like that even looks your way, let alone talks to you. You're dateless and continue your single existence. Is God not answering your prayer? If you were to judge based on the fact that you're still alone, perhaps it would seem that way, since you aren't getting what you specifically asked for, yet God may in fact be answering your prayer by letting you know that you may not be ready to meet this woman yet... that perhaps you have issues standing in the way that need to be dealt with first, because surely if God brings your dream girl into your life, you should at least be her dream man too, right?
So if you're not getting what you ask for, try to think about why. The relationship you have with God is not about God supplying every wish you may make. God is there to help you understand how YOU can bring those things into your life, when you're ready to have them. God IS answering, but in ways that sometimes will not be apparent to you or that you will immediately recognize, and not always with what you want, but with what you need.
Bluezzz | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/8/2007 3:43:24 AM | IMHO, no verse is a lie! if you take verses out of context and don't read the whole story, or "key words" with the verses (and reference verses), then you miss the mark. Is your request God's will? Is your request going against another persons will (that God will not violate)? James 4:3 (the whole chapter is great)~~~
3~"You ask and you do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures".
there's more i could say, but gotta go to work,  , be back later, lol! | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/8/2007 5:04:38 AM | from post By: dunrich on 12/8/2007 12 54 AM
" of the approximately 100 believers I have talked to over the last 5 years, not one has met anyone. Yet, when I grouped the nonbeleievrs, secular freinds, every one had met someone."
I think if you followed the lives of those who had met someone a bit further along you might find that their hasty later life decision brought on all sorts of complications, especially if they have children and one side has considerable assets but the other very little. So, maybe those who's prayers in this respect, which may be a bit out of season, are unanswered might consider themselves as blessed in remaining unattached.
If one of God's purposes for humanity is the enabling of spiritual incarnation in the form of children, then those of us who are older and already have children may be better able to help provide a home for them so they in turn might have children if we are denied the inclusion of others into our lives. imho | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/8/2007 5:29:49 AM | I think prayer is miss understood. If we think of red we begin to notice red. Even if we try not to see red after thinking about it then we have a hard time not noticing red. So the power of prayer is that focus. I read a book called the Isaiah Effect by greg Bradden and he teaches us that prayer has nothing to do with words.
The ritual of prayer is a ritual. If you see the outcome of what you want say world peace and intensify the feeling that you would experience when that moment happens then you begin to focus on world peace. The more you do this the more you will notice and the stronger the connection between world peace and yourself. The more people who do this the greater the chance of world peace becoming a reality. If you google mode of prayer you will get a better description of this then i can offer you. Is this a spiritual event though? I don't think so at all.
If you live your life congruently with your wishes and desires you will obviously achieve them. If you just want things and do nothing then you will get absolutely nothing.
We don't need a god you dispense things to us!
He provides nothing for us, our lives are our own doing within the confines we have limited ourselves to. In other words some times we experience something that holds us back emotionally and mentally but that doesn't mean we are bound by that as much as it seems.
That being said I believe in prayer. The power of it and the ritual of making it meaningful to ourselves and our lives. However i'm not deluded that some god is up there waiting for our coins to make him act. Why aren't some prayers being answered? I think the answer lies in collective energy of focus on the situation. The bible teaches that where two or more are gathered in his name so shall he be. This leads me to believe or think that the power of intent can be strengthened by numbers. The other thing is that we are not congruent with our thoughts or prayer. | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/8/2007 6:52:51 AM | Good points here , the way I see it is this. Too often we make 'pacts' in our heart, thinking I will trust God and then like any barter system, expect him to give us something, make sense? But God doesnt want us doing 'trades" with him. He gave his son to die, for free, with out any 'price tag" on it, just that we believe. That is a gift, there is no price tag on it, so it only makes sense that we shouldnt have a price tag on our faith.
So I guess I dont agree with the 'prosperity based religions, prevealent here in North America, that God rewards us the way we do with our hunting dog. Hey, good girl, here is a pat and a biscuit kind of thing, if that makes sense? That, by expierience I have found, is true.
Yet when I read the verses in the Bible concerning Gods anwering our prayers, it seems somehow to be more straight forward there. OK , we need a car, would love a shiny new Jag sitting in the driveway. Well, we dont require a Jag , lol so God isnt going to plop down one for us. He isnt going to even hand us a Chev either, he did that by giving us hands to work with and jobs . He isnt going to hold out a hand and pull us to safety when he already " sent a boat, even a helicopter" to get us to safety.
But what about prayers for things that are his domain? Healing from sin, tramau, what about love which the scriptures tells us is a gift from God? All those promises in the Bible, leads one to have faith that our prayers will be answered. Yet, what do you tell someone who has prayed for things of Gods realm , but never recieved them? | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/8/2007 7:15:27 AM | I assumed a troll, but I looked at your profile and it doesn't read like you live under a bridge and crunch billy goat bones. Ah, but you're an INTJ. Now I have my answer. :roll:
I think you already know the answer to your question. You're an intelligent man who believes in G-d and prayer. Here's a thought, why not ask Him directly?
A tip: to quote use square brackets. See the example at the right of your screen just above the icons -- I can't actually write the words because the system reformats the message assuming I want to quote when I don't. Oh, and don't hold down the Shift key. | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/8/2007 7:55:58 AM |
Above is listed some promise`s , given to us in scripture about prayer.
God can't be held responsible for these promises. He didn't make them. They were jotted down millenia ago by mortal men.
Ever have an unanswered prayer? Why does that happen do you think
One answer could be that there's no-one actually listening. Maybe that's too simple though.
Show me I am wrong, would love to discover that, but no matter how I look at it, unanswered prayer will prove one verse or another is a lie.
You forgot "an eye for an eye" and "turn the other cheek". They can't both be right. So that's at least one verifiable innacuracy in the good book. If there's one innacuracy, there's a reasonable chance that other parts are wrong too. Maybe all the passages you quoted are simply further examples of innacuracy. | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/8/2007 8:01:05 AM | Daniel 10:10-14
10And, behold, an hand touched me, which set me upon my knees and upon the palms of my hands. 11And he said unto me, O Daniel, a man greatly beloved, understand the words that I speak unto thee, and stand upright: for unto thee am I now sent. And when he had spoken this word unto me, I stood trembling. 12Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words. 13But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia. 14Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.
This is a verse , that shows the truth about prayer, Daniel was trying to understand the visions he had seen , we know he was praying about them , and must have felt that he was not aswered because it did not come right away. But he saw a man that told him , that his prayers were heard , from the first day , he set his heart to understand. The man tells him that he was held up for 21 days , this man was the answer to Daniels prayers and had to get to Daniel first. This was not just a man , but one sent to him. God answers prayer , but the world can get in the way and we can get in his way also. Sometimes it seems that are prayers are not answered , but we cant see the things , holding them back, most of the time it is in the things around us and in our own lives . I have prayed for things and thought they would never be , then seen them years later. When the time is right , all prayers are answered , even sometimes if the answer is no, lol. I want to say to Dunrich , that your prayers are heard and will be answered , you gust have to , ask and leave it to God . All scripture is true. | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/8/2007 8:04:42 AM | OP:
Often times there are key words in scripture that are overlooked. The following from your post are a couple of examples.
Mt 21:22..........whatever things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.
The key word here is believe. How many people who pray actually expect the prayer to be granted and how many have doubt or simply hope the prayer will be answered? Praying with an expectant heart is a prerequisite. In otherwords faith is a must have. And imo opinion just 1% doubt in the equation negates any faith someone might claim to have.
I'm sure you know scripture well enough to be aware of the fact that Jesus himself could only perform minor mircales in the town he grew up in. This was due to the fact people there simply did not believe.
Jas 5:16..........The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.
"Righteous man" infers someone living a truly Godly life and not someone just paying lip service. How many people claiming to be christian are there that are truely walking the walk and not simply talking the talk?
We are also told that our hearts must be free from offence and unforgivness if our prayers are to be answered. How many people asking to have a woman or man brought into their life still harbour unforgiveness, offence or resentment?
Then there is the question of the prayer being answered and a "special someone" being put into these peoples lives but the person doing the praying does not recognize them as such. For I imagine many prayers get answered but are not recognized because the "special someone" does not come in the form that we want or were hoping for. Personal predujices, biasis and preconcieved notions of what the person should be like prevent us from recognizing them when they do infact enter our lives.
Regarding the fact many non-believers have found someone.
Have you considered the fact it is because they are less picky? If faith is not a prerequisite than they obviously have greater options. When someone lowers their standards the chance of settling increases. Also consider how serious these people are in regards to long term. And if someones main goal is to find someone to live with for the simple sake of companionship and sex than of course they will more easily find someone. But if ones desire is to find a life partner with the same faith, goals and desires than the waiting period will be longer. | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/8/2007 8:31:41 AM | Biblical aren't lies....
They are religious writings from 2000+ years ago that have little value in a modern society.
Why give added weight to something that's not applicable in modern times? | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/8/2007 8:55:22 AM | [ quotte}We are also told that our hearts must be free from offence and unforgivness if our prayers are to be answered. How many people asking to have a woman or man brought into their life still harbour unforgiveness, offence or resentment? {/quotte]
Justacheckin : It is exactly that thought that got me thinking about this. How many people do you know have been cheated on by a spouse, had them leave for someone else?
Now , here is what bothers me . That person who did wrong, leaves, runs off with mr or miss, the grass is greener over there. They go through phases of guilt, feel remorseful, seek forgiveness. All is well it seems!
Yet the spouse they left behind, what a greater and more difficult task it is for them to become forgiving, free from offence.?
So really when we look at this, it is easier for the cheating spouse , to be forgiven by God than it is for the victim . Hey, I get along ok with my ex now, very cival and cordial, but to be like you said , never harbour resentment? God in a way expects us to be mightier than he is. Keep in mind, God only " forgives" when repentance is made clear to him. That is not the case with us , we are to forgive, even while being victimized.
So take a case where a man has an affair, runs off with his trophy . He feels remource, he and her hold hands, seek forgiveness, maybe at the alter of a church. God is happy seeing that ! Its much harder on that mans spouse to forgive, become a person who can reach that point .
Read about David , what he did to Uriah and Gods reaction to it. He murdered Uraiah , ' God was angered when he found out" , so caused the illegitimate son from that affair , to suffer and die. Now, what did God do? David, wailed and put a huge show on of grief, after the child had died, then had a huge feast. After the feast, he went to see , (Bible said " comforted " ) his wife who he had got after mudering her husband . Some action that must have been eh? A screw blessed by God!
What this whole story tells me is this. David was the " elect" to God. So , wink, wink, your a naughty boy Dave, shouldnt do things like betray a loyal soldier serving you until death. But heck, things happen so carry on. What about Uriah? Where was his " vengence" that God promised ? Where was his reward for being a faithful and loyal soldier?
We live our lives thinking God will answer prayers, will take care of us if we do right. Yet, that doesnt happen. I have yet seen a person who believes , was a victim in a bad relationship, be able to get what the cheaters, Davids have, sorry.
If it is punishment, then the Bible lied as we are told that when we accept him, all our sins are forgiven. If like I said earlier, there is only an ' elect' who God made these promises too , then the scriptures are lying when they said " Whosover". | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/8/2007 11:58:48 AM | OP, regarding David's adultery with Bathsheba, God forgave the sin in that He didn't require the death penalty, but He severely punished David for the sin. As you acknowledged, the child born of adultery died. Also note that God was going to punish David in this life for this sin:
"Why did you despise the word of the LORD by doing what is evil in his eyes? You struck down Uriah the Hittite with the sword and took his wife to be your own. You killed him with the sword of the Ammonites. Now, therefore, the sword WILL NEVER DEPART from your house, because you despised me and took the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your own.'
'This is what the LORD says: 'Out of your own household I am going to bring calamity upon you. Before your very eyes I will take your wives and give them to one who is close to you, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight. You did it in secret, but I will do this thing in broad daylight before all Israel'" (2 Samuel 12:9-12 NIV).
Some of the calamity that God brought on David was having his own son, Absalom, try to force David off the throne. David had to go into hiding. Absalom was finally killed. Then see David's lament for Absalom, "The King was shaken. He went up to the room over the gateway and wept. As he went, he said, O my son, Absalom! My son, my son Absalom! If only I had died instead of you--O Absalom, my son, my son!'" (2 Samuel 2:33 NIV).
David wanted to build a temple for God, but God would not allow it because David was "a bloody man"--in other words David had shed much blood. Solomon would build the temple.
OP, as far as God expecting you to not harbor resentment toward a wife who cheated on, that is simply not what the scripture says. I believe that, of every act a man can experience, having his wife betray him is right there at the top. I think the Bible backs that up because adultery is the one scriptural reason Jesus gave for divorce (Matthew 19:8-9). If you are the innocent spouse of a cheating spouse, you may divorce the cheater and remarry as if the one who betrayed you were DEAD. You don't have to take him/her back. You have been betrayed in the most personal way imaginable. You may consider this person dead from now on and act accordingly.
As far as God forgiving the adulterous couple, yes, I'm sure He may do that upon repentance. I personally don't believe that they are free to remarry in His eyes. I personally believe that any subsequent marriage would be committing adultery according to Jesus' words in Matthew 19. Of course, not everyone is as conservative as I am. I think that is the punishment for the adulterer--having to live alone the rest of his/her life.
As far as 1 John 3:16 goes, the "whosoever" is qualified. Have you considered John 6:37, 44? "All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away....No man CAN COME to me unless the Father who sent me draw him, and I will raise him up at the last day" (NIV).
Jesus Himself distinguished between those who were believers and those who were unbelievers. "I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full. I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep...I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me--just as the Father knows me and I know the Father--and I lay down my life for the sheep...Then came the Feast of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter, and Jesus was in the temple area walking in Solomon's Colonnade. The Jews gathered around him, saying 'How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.' Jesus answered, 'I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice. I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand"" (John 10:9-11, 14, 22-28 NIV).
In order to understand John 3:16, you have to realize who John is writing to. John is the Apostle to the Jews as it says in Galatians 2:9. Why is this important? Because Jesus said in John 4:22, "for salvation is from the Jews" (NIV). In other words, until Jesus appeared salvation was nationalistic for Israel only. Other nations were affected only if and when they came into contact with Israel. Now God is changing who He calls. He is bringing the Gentiles into His Church. As it says in Galatians 2:8, "The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: 'All nations will be blessed through you.' So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith" (NIV). Of course, Israel always allowed Gentiles to convert and accept the LORD as their Godi n my opinion.
Also note that in the book of Acts, there are four distinct Pentecostal experiences for the four categories of believers:
1.) The Jews (Acts 2);
2). The Samaritans (Acts 8:14-17);
3.) The God-fearers (Acts 10:44-46);
4). The Gentiles (Acts 11:15-18)
When we accept Jesus as our savior, we are forgiven. We are instantly justified in God's sight. That means, in my opinion, that God's wrath is turned away from us and the penality for our sins has been satisfied by the substitionary atonement Jesus made on the cross. We are forgiven, but that does not mean that all physical consequences of sin are removed in this life. I explained on another thread that if a person has had a child out of wedlock, the sin of fornication would be forgiven but the problems of being a single parent still exist. Another example might be someone who has abused IV drugs and contracted AIDS. God will forgive the sin, but that doesn't mean that the person is restored to perfect health. The consequences of his/her decisions may linger for a lifetime even though the spiritual penalty is removed.
As far as judging other people's relationships, you really don't know what type of problems the cheaters are having in their relationships. You don't know how empty they feel, how meaningless they may find life, how their new lover is just a substitute until a better-looking "trophy" comes along, how many times they've been dumped, etc.
I would suggest that you ponder the 11th chapter of Hebrews, especially verses 35-39. I especially love the phrase "of whom the world was not worthy." It says they died in faith NOT RECEIVING the promise. There really is a big, implied YET at the end of verse 39. They didn't receive the promise yet. | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/8/2007 12:26:54 PM |
Justacheckin : It is exactly that thought that got me thinking about this. How many people do you know have been cheated on by a spouse, had them leave for someone else?
And
So really when we look at this, it is easier for the cheating spouse , to be forgiven by God than it is for the victim . Hey, I get along ok with my ex now, very cival and cordial, but to be like you said , never harbour resentment? God in a way expects us to be mightier than he is. Keep in mind, God only " forgives" when repentance is made clear to him. That is not the case with us , we are to forgive, even while being victimized.
Repentance is something we do when we ourselves have offended, wether it be by act or thought. Forgiveness is something we do when another has offended us. Both are required of God.
It's easy to forgive those we love but who, to a small measure, slighted us. Forgiving the big wrong is the true test of ones nature and heart.
The same thing happened to me. I've been divorced now for ten years. She left me for several others and got the house and children and falsely accused me of a crime that ultimately ended with me in jail and a criminal record. She remarried this month and is doing well for herself. I, on the otherhand, remain single and still searching.
So who is more blessed and who is having their prayers denied?
No question about it. I'm more blessed and it is my prayers that I feel are being answered on a daily basis. It just seems like it may not be the case when focusing on one particular area or circumstance.
What this whole story tells me is this. David was the " elect" to God. So , wink, wink, your a naughty boy Dave, shouldnt do things like betray a loyal soldier serving you until death. But heck, things happen so carry on. What about Uriah? Where was his " vengence" that God promised ? Where was his reward for being a faithful and loyal soldier?
How about the fact Davids sons rebelled against him?As well, David had many enemies and spent much of his life in a state of war.
When alalyzing the life of David it's important that you not focus and limit your thoughts on this one dispicable act. For there's no question he fell from grace in committing this criminal act. But the rest of his life reveals a heart and spirit that is far different from the heart needed to carry out such a deed. All this does is prove David was human; had human deisres and shortcomings; and made human mistakes. I personally think it's great how the bible does not try to hide these facts. For how easy would it have been for the people translating or putting the books of the bible together to leave this information out. God, however, imo, wanted it left in for a reason.
The following is the message God delivered to David by way of the prophet Nathan.
2 Samuel 12: 8 - 12 (NLT)
8 I gave you your master’s house and his wives and the kingdoms of Israel and Judah. And if that had not been enough, I would have given you much, much more. 9 Why, then, have you despised the word of the Lord and done this horrible deed? For you have murdered Uriah the Hittite with the sword of the Ammonites and stolen his wife. 10 From this time on, your family will live by the sword because you have despised me by taking Uriah’s wife to be your own.
11 “This is what the Lord says: Because of what you have done, I will cause your own household to rebel against you. I will give your wives to another man before your very eyes, and he will go to bed with them in public view. 12 You did it secretly, but I will make this happen to you openly in the sight of all Israel.”
Sounds to me like Uriah was given some measure of revenge/justice.
David had a heart for God and expressed it in his songs, dances, writings, prayer and actions. These are the reasons David seemed to be so blessed even after committing such a grevious sin. But he hardly got off scott free. In verse 8 God says He would have given David much much more. So not only is he denied future blessings but his own children rebel against him, his wifes are given to another man and his family suffers from living lifes by the sword.
EDIT:
AHHH mannnn.
And Can It Be beat me to the posting gate. But I don't have the time to change things. | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/8/2007 12:27:21 PM | This one:
Jer 33:3..........Call to Me, and I will answer you, and show you great and mighty things...
I was raised RC. At 15 I loved Christ and went through effort to get closer to God. I went to confession, prayed my rosary, read the bible, and attended Jesuit schools and Catholic seminars of my own volition.
All the time I believed in this supernatural creator I was as open to its existence and effects as anyone could be. I wasn't asking for proof then, but now I do. At no time, however, have I received any.
I don't have problems with any exes, (it helps that I've never married nor sired) but that's because I learned how to be a man and get over things. My good nature, the food I eat, love of others, marvel at the universe, and passion are all things I can explain without a supernatural gap-filler. I'd take anything from God - a wave, a pack of smokes, I don't care - yet have seen nothing. I was looking as well as anyone has. | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/8/2007 1:10:30 PM | Andcanitbe , Jpatrick and just acheckin ,great posts , I have a lot to ponder on them.
The Hebrews chapter is one I am familair with, its my favourute book of the Bible. Yes, many promises were answered after the lives of those that received them were done on this earth. I have used that passage my self when dealing with a dissaluioned Christian, the answer I got back basiccly was, if promises are not kept on this earth, then how can we know we be assured they will be in the next life?
That is a hard one to answer even though that passage tells us pretty clearly that they are answered. For the record, while I wouldnt say I am happy to be single, do find that I am enjoying it now days. Personally, I have been able to do things that I always wanted to, that I probably wouldnt have been able to still married. Like patent an invention ( hasnt made money, lol, but is a real blast seeing something you have created work), am now contemplating getting a bike after 30 years of raising kids, do my dream of riding up to Alaska.
But to answer others who have doubts, is very hard at times. For example, I know this lady from down south. She had very strong faith, even after her husband left her and their kids for a younger trophy wife type almost 10 years ago. Anyway, after praying for many years, she finally met a man through her church about a year and a half ago. Well he did the same thing her 1st husband did to her, only left her a 'lasting gift" shall we say. Its awful difficult telling her that God does answer prayers, especially when her 1st husband and his trophy seem to have the world in their hand.
Vicylcyl , yes it is hard to see the hand of God work sometimes I know. Actually , it is with the small stuff, that looking back with hind site, that I do suspect his presence in my life. Keep on looking , I really hope you get a wave or something some day. Like andcanitbe mentioned, we can try to find God, but he has to find us as well. | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/8/2007 1:58:18 PM | Which is a "lie" well let's change that word "lie" shall we.
Because althought fiction is not technically by definition a "lie", that is what the Christian Bible, and all religious texts are: Fiction.
No less or more than Scientology for example, or the book of Mormon, or Wicca or ... Harry Potter or ... those that base their religion on the Gor series by John Norman; all Fiction, all written by man. | |
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| Which Bible verse is a lie?
Posted: 12/8/2007 3:02:49 PM | I would imagine a good analogy would be if you were to ask a Milk Jug to bring you the woman of your dreams, someone who was everything you'd ever want, who was beautiful, would love you and stand beside you, take care of you and you her... then you'd really be happy and life for you would be complete.... and you wait, and wait, and wait... and no woman like that even looks your way, let alone talks to you. You're dateless and continue your single existence. Is the Milk Jug not answering your prayer? If you were to judge based on the fact that you're still alone, perhaps it would seem that way, since you aren't getting what you specifically asked for, yet the Milk Jug may in fact be answering your prayer by letting you know that you may not be ready to meet this woman yet... that perhaps you have issues standing in the way that need to be dealt with first, because surely if the Milk Jug brings your dream girl into your life, you should at least be her dream man too, right?
So if you're not getting what you ask for, try to think about why. The relationship you have with the Milk Jug is not about the Milk Jug supplying every wish you may make. The Milk Jug is there to help you understand how YOU can bring those things into your life, when you're ready to have them. The Milk Jug IS answering, but in ways that sometimes will not be apparent to you or that you will immediately recognize, and not always with what you want, but with what you need. | |
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