| Canada's Youth Criminal Justice Act needs to be changed
Posted: 12/14/2007 12:43:32 PM | Hi
The YCJA sentencing guidlines need to be changed. Right now if a teen commits murder or multiple murders they can not be sentenced to longer then 7 years and I believe only 6 years can be spent in custody. In my area a nurse was murdered by a fourteen year old recently and chances are after the trial he will be sentenced to three to five years. A twelve year old girl helped her boyfriend murder her parents and little brother in another province and was sentenced to seven years with only six years spent in custody. Right now there is a petition put on by the Nurse's family to change the sentencing guidelines: http://www.gopetition.com/online/15695.html.
I don't know if Canada should go the route taken by some states in the US with life sentences but I do feel the punishment needs to be more severe then what the YCJA has in place now. If someone commits an adult serious crime shouldn't they be treated like an adult no matter of the age? Yes they are still technically children but doesn't society need to be protected from them? Would a more severe penalty reduce the amount of violence committed by teenagers? I believe at sixteen they can be moved to adult court but this does not seem to happen very often, first degree murder in Canada comes with a twenty-five year to life sentence as an adult but I can't remember a single teen who received this sentence or anything close to it. What is the solution here? Any ideas? | |
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| Canada's Youth Criminal Justice Act needs to be changed
Posted: 12/14/2007 12:52:21 PM | | Here's a solution,stop **** footing around with criminals.If you're capable of doing the crime you should do the time.No psych cop outs,no whining about growing up poor do the crime do the time.The gov't should use prisoners to manufacture goods to off set the cost of thier incarceration too.Teenagers today are sociopathic which considering most were brought up like cattle in daycares with no one giving them morals,values etc its easy to see why.Criminals need to fear the law or they won't respect it and for far too long our wimpy liberal society has let them get away with murder which is why you see more of it.Scrap the young offenders program,publish thier names and for once in our society treat everyone equally. | |
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| Canada's Youth Criminal Justice Act needs to be changed
Posted: 12/14/2007 3:49:25 PM | | I feel the governement is letting down it's people by not fully charging as adults these child murderers, many of them escape the system up there and head south to commit more murders in my wondeful country, I dont like that. | |
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| Canada's Youth Criminal Justice Act needs to be changed
Posted: 12/14/2007 4:00:53 PM | I think they can be tried as adults if the judge decides that for really violent crimes but I'm not totally sure.
My pet peeves about the Youth Criminal Justice Act is that
#1. Their names are not published. If they commit a crime their names should be published as that would protect the public more. Then you would know if a violent youth lived near you or not and you could be more watchful.
#2. The age needs to be lowered to at least 8 years old as children under 12 cannot be charged. Some 11 year olds have assaulted or almost killed people or have been cruel to animals. I don't quite remember but I think a few years ago an 11 year old boy in England murdered an 8 year old child.
I heard of one story a year ago in the paper where a 10 year old B.C. boy kept stealing cars and couldn't be charged. What kind of law is that?
Kids need to be held responsible for what they do and they seem to be committing worse crimes at a younger age than years ago. At least it's only the minority of youth getting into trouble, most of them are good kids. | |
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| Canada's Youth Criminal Justice Act needs to be changed
Posted: 12/14/2007 4:53:23 PM | If it's a relatively minor crime, such as vandalism or some other property crime, then sure, give the kid a break. No sense ruining someone's life for breaking a few windows. Restitution and community service should help to get the message across.
But if it's a violent crime, then charge the little sh*t as an adult. No free ride; no "get out of jail free" card.
And yes, by all means, publish their names!! | |
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| Canada's Youth Criminal Justice Act needs to be changed
Posted: 12/14/2007 8:36:45 PM | The super severe route has been extremely counter productive in the USA. It's a tough issue, for which their are no simple answer.
of course a bunch of people who I wouldn't let within 10 feet of a child will tell you it's all liberals fault.  | |
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| Canada's Youth Criminal Justice Act needs to be changed
Posted: 12/14/2007 8:54:46 PM | I was in juvenile detention for three years ( 13 to 16 ) and I met a guy in there who killed his parents he lit there bed on fire and barracaded the door and nailed the windows shut so they couldn't escape. I asked him once what he was "in' for and he told me that he was a runaway. I told him that I heard about what happened to his parents and he said " yeah but hey should've died before they had me."
Some people old or young are just too messed up to belong to society. I heard he killed himself a few years later in maximum security. | |
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| Canada's Youth Criminal Justice Act needs to be changed
Posted: 12/15/2007 11:56:52 AM | Hi:
When the TCJA came out it was meant to put treatment in front of punishment which I agree with to a point but there needs to be a line where society and the community are protected from certain individuals as some of them are untreatable
I have worked in group homes for a number of years and the boys I work with (12 -18) treat the court system as a joke because they know even if they are caught the punishment is very small and a high majority of the time they just get probation or a month of custody. I remember one kid who had 15 separte charges from robbery to assualt to drug possesion and he recieved 6 months in custody, he had multiple priors all that included violence over the two years previously. I go to see them while their in custody and they are not phased by the experience and when I ask about taking the right direction in life once they were released a high number of them said "I need to be more carefull so I don't get caught". Very scary stuff.
I completly agree with lowering the age, not sure about 8 years old, but I would have no problem with 10. | |
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| Canada's Youth Criminal Justice Act needs to be changed
Posted: 12/15/2007 12:22:52 PM | | Unfortuatley...I work in this screwed up criminal system in the states...The people who control what happens is the extremely small "Right to life" groups (asses) who have never been victimized. Allow me to enter you home..tie, bound and gag your entire family and watch me torture and kill 1/2 your family. Sodimize your wife in front of you..tourture her...but, then allow her to live....Then, I'll let you tell me if I have the right to live. People need to start writing their congress on these issues. Teens who commit crimes with guns are waived into adult court, and they are charged as adults. However, sentencing is usually much lighter than what an adult would recieve. I have seen Murderers get off with minimal sentencing. In one case, I witnessed a murderer only get 8 years because when he was robbing the victim, he had the gun in the victims face, the victim tried to knock the gun away from his face. When he did this, the gun went off killing him. The Court ruled it as an accidental shooting and the robber got off with an 8 year sentence, meaning he will only serve 1/2 of that..4 years. When I spoke with the robber two weeks prior to his sentencing...He laughed, because he was already aware of his plea agreement...he was nothing more than a career criminal that showed no remorse of what he did. You want your streets back..Write a congressman, buy yourself a gun and take a course in knowing how to use it. I know that Im sic of it. I live in Indianapolis, Indiana... | |
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| Canada's Youth Criminal Justice Act needs to be changed
Posted: 12/15/2007 1:47:48 PM | I don't mind putting the focus on rehabilitation when it comes to all criminals and in particular with the youth. There is , however, a point where a line is crossed and punishment must take precedence.
Part of our problem can be described best by the old British maxim (to paraphrase) "Justice must not only be done but must be seen to be done". When somebody can murder another human in cold blood and never have to worry about spending more than three years in some correctional facility , we have a problem. The whole justice system in this country is guilty really but where the kids are concerned , they YCJA really messed up when it made them virtually unaccountable for anything they do. My city is plagued by auto-theft. We can't do ANYTHING to these kids (and it's usually minors who do this...because they know there are no consequences) The law doesn't allow it half the time and even when it does, the worst they get is a year of counseling while they enjoy the other perks of staying in one of our youth detention facilities. | |
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| Canada's Youth Criminal Justice Act needs to be changed
Posted: 12/15/2007 2:28:25 PM | "Justice must not only be done but must be seen to be done".
This is an excellent idea. When a kid gets caught shoplifting, his picture should be posted in the wondow, with a notice of what he did, the date, and the name, along with a line saying "This person is no longer allowed in this store."
It would go a long ways towards letting the community know where the rotten apples are in their community, and publically humiliate the kid...perhaps his family will finally decide to actually parent the kid and his "carreer" will be nipped in the bud. I lived in a small town where a shop owner did this....it worked fine..till the fmaily raised heck about the "public humiliation and such...I figure they deserved it...as did the kid.
Kids who commit murder or other violent crimes...why not have them serve the same sentance an adult would? 20 years then parole? Why not? they could have a heck of an education by then. | |
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| Canada's Youth Criminal Justice Act needs to be changed
Posted: 12/15/2007 2:39:10 PM | Criminals need to fear the law or they won't respect it, and for far too long our wimpy, liberal society has let them get away with murder, which is why you see more of it. Scrap the young offenders' programme, publish their names, and for once in our society treat everyone equally. - Jim Dandy2007
> You cannot argue with this man's logic, for it cuts right to the heart of the matter. Alas, more and more left-wing liberals are being nurtured today, feeding from the poisoned udder of political correctness and creating problems like we've never seen before. Back in the Fifties and Sixties, how many adolescents did you see shooting diners in places like McDonald's or in shopping malls? It was unheard of. Simply put, the bleeding-heart liberal, mamby-pampy approach has not worked.
> There are teenagers leaving school today who cannot write their name. This is a fact in New Zealand, where I live - one of the most politically correct societies on earth. Some children cannot multiply one-figure digits by one-digure digits (4x4, for example) without panicking and reaching for the calculator. Also, they don't know their literary history. Charles Dickens and Edgar Allan Poe are as recognizable to them as the temperature of the rings around Saturn. The great poets and writers are now replaced by The Simpsons and other trash designed to rot the minds of our young people. (Ever looked into the history and background of Rupert Murdoch, the man behind that garbage?)
> Don't get me started.
> More power to your pen, Jim Dandy2007.
> Peter. | |
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| Canada's Youth Criminal Justice Act needs to be changed
Posted: 12/16/2007 2:44:14 AM |
You cannot argue with this man's logic, for it cuts right to the heart of the matter. Alas, more and more left-wing liberals are being nurtured today, feeding from the poisoned udder of political correctness and creating problems like we've never seen before.
I always stand in wonder at people who use terms like logic, when they obviously have no idea what they actually mean.
Their was no "logic" in the statement you support, merly some vitriol and appeals to emotion combined with finger pointing, unsurprising considering your post is a bunch of the same crap.
Yes. If only we cold return to the wonders of the 50's and 60's. That's the old conservative cry.
When women who were beaten had no recourse in the legal system. When you could get away with almost killing your child with abuse, and it was considered your own business.
If only we could return to the wonderful times of the 50's and 60s', when children could be brought up without having to ever interact with other races, and we could be assured that they would never have to drink out of the same water fountain.
Of course in the 50's and 60's people with absolutely no perspective were ****ing too, instead they were ****ing about hippies. It's all the same shit, people have been crying about "kids these days" since freaking Aristotle. | |
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| Canada's Youth Criminal Justice Act needs to be changed
Posted: 12/16/2007 3:30:26 AM | ^That's true but it certainly doesn't paint a very accurate picture.
Youth crime in this country is particularly disturbing. It's not because it's never happened before it's because "progressive thinking" such as you no doubt advocate has made anything tolerable. Kid stole a car ? "Well, everybody makes mistakes." Kid kills somebody ? "He's not a bad person...he just needs guidance." Beats the crap out of somebody for 'disrespectin' him ? "Well, he needs structure and positive role models."
On top of that , we're dealing with the "me" generation that figures they're entitled to do whatever they want to anyway. And why do they think this ? Because we tell them so. When they're caught, they blame it on somebody else. Usually it's "society" (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean) so our judges give 'em another chance. Not that it matters because judges don't lock up anybody for very long anymore anyway.
Every month one of the local papers hands out its 'Eight Ball Award". This "award" is given to judges , prosecutors , defense attorneys...anybody in the local criminal justice system who has managed to set the bar that much lower. Examples ? Well, apparently you can rape pre-teen girls and then make silly claims about having PTSD from events ten years before. You can beat somebody to death in front of dozens of people and then go to jail for a whopping six months. You and a gang of drunken idiots can attack a completely innocent person and at worst you'll spend a couple years in the slammer.
And those are the sentences reserved for the ADULTS. The kids can't even be charged if they're under twelve. That would be fine except that the kids who can be charged get the younger ones to do the crime itself. This means that a fifteen year old can get an eleven year old to burn down somebody's house and nobody can be charged. Don't think it can happen ? It does all the time. And even if you can find a way to prosecute the fifteen year old , at worst he gets maybe six months in a detention facility where he has scores of people asking him about how he feels and basically showering him with attention.
So no...we shouldn't be locking them in cells and throwing away the key. Maybe it's not so much for us to ask that they get a little more than a night without dinner when they kill somebody though. Or is this just another "right wing conspiracy" to lock up kids forever ? | |
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| Canada's Youth Criminal Justice Act needs to be changed
Posted: 12/16/2007 6:46:21 AM | http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-12-15-craigprice_N.htm
Story of Craig Price and steps taken to keep him in prison. Bills have been passed, but they weren't retroactive for his case. It's pretty interesting. | |
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| Canada's Youth Criminal Justice Act needs to be changed
Posted: 12/16/2007 7:10:33 AM | The evidence speaks for itself ... what happens in a society where there are no serious punishments, consequences, or deterrents for youth.
Even a 6 year old where I used to work admits to stealing from stores and will keep stealing ... because he can. "Why not? It's not like they can do anything to me anyway". The bullies who beat other kids regularly also know that cops can't touch them ... Kids themselves I've seen on t.v programs admit they have killed, and will continue killing (until they turn 18) .... BECAUSE THEY CAN.
What you are seeing will only continue to get worse ... as society "progresses" on. Canada is becoming a very poor "parent" ... it's "bleeding heart" is overruling any common sense, justice, and order. | |
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| Canada's Youth Criminal Justice Act needs to be changed
Posted: 12/16/2007 1:48:32 PM | People have been crying about "kids these days" since freaking Aristotle. - charlesedgm
> In New Zealand, where I live, there has - according to the statistics, not the 'emotions' - been a 4,000% increase in homicides in the last 50 years. (There were only two convictions in 1952, for instance.)
> There was a 108% rise in violent crime, in New Zealand, in only the decade between 1990-2000.
> The proportion of New Zealanders who have been victims of crime increased to 39% in 2005, compared to 29.5% in 2000.
> According to the facts, 1,2000 violent offenders are up for parole in the next three years. More than 900 will reoffend.
> There are now three times as many gang members in New Zealand as there are police officers.
> The manufacture of methamphetamine "P" increased 300% in 2002 alone.
> New Zealand has the third highest rate of child-abuse deaths among OECD countries.
> Our recidivism rate for youth offenders has risen to a staggering 97%.
> Our justice system budgets over $50,000 in Legal Aid per offender, while it budgets just $29 per victim of crime.
> Kids, eh?
> I'd cut the crap, charley, and stick with the logic, not the emotions.
> Peter. | |
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| Canada's Youth Criminal Justice Act needs to be changed
Posted: 12/16/2007 2:44:36 PM | I'm not going to argue that their doesn't need reform, hell youth crime is a problem I'm well aware of, I work in a youth drug treatment program, I'm probably more aware than anybody else on this forum.
What I am saying is that the 50's and 60's were not the wonderful time conservatives like to pretend it was. Their obviously needs to be some balance, measures for reform vs measures for punishment.
One of the largest problems is making the assesment between who can be reformed and who can't, and this process costs money.
I'd cut the crap, charley, and stick with the logic, not the emotions.
once again, you're using the words "logic" when I think you mean a different word. I'm not being insulting, but "logic" isn't the word you think it is. | |
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| Canada's Youth Criminal Justice Act needs to be changed
Posted: 12/16/2007 3:24:22 PM | Hi
The YCJA sentencing guidlines need to be changed.
I'm not going to argue that their doesn't need reform, hell youth crime is a problem I'm well aware of, I work in a youth drug treatment program, I'm probably more aware than anybody else on this forum
How do you think how it should be reformed?
JMO
Why not? That is what this thread is about?
Canada's Youth Criminal Justice Act needs to be changed. That is what the name of the thread is | |
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| Canada's Youth Criminal Justice Act needs to be changed
Posted: 12/16/2007 4:07:13 PM | I'm not going to argue that their [sic] doesn't need reform . . . One of the largest problems is making the assesment [sic] between who can be reformed and who can't . . . Once again, you're using the words [sic] logic when I think you mean a different word. - charlesedm
> I'd concentrate on my own syntax and grammar before looking at my use of the word logic. And no, you're not being insulting. I appreciate what you are saying.
> logic (noun) 1: The science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable reference 2: A particular method of reasoning or argumentation 3: Reason or sound judgement 4: Convincing forcefulness 5: The irresistible logic of the facts.
> Best wishes from Peter. | |
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| Canada's Youth Criminal Justice Act needs to be changed
Posted: 12/16/2007 6:23:48 PM | | Allow me to describe the detention process in canada from an insiders perspective. In the three years that I was in juvenile I got high more than ever , had sex almost as often as I wanted, The Three places I was in St Johns correctional was coed and as thieves it was really easy to pick the locks on the doors to make visits to the girls area. The staff was usually not very attentive. Twin Valleys correction in Wardsville ontario was an open air community , more like day camp. same thing there sex drugs and rock and roll baby !! Sprucedale was a transitional place for me and the only maximum security place I was placed in. This place was more like jail but even still the only thing keeping us from running was a ten foot high fence . We were kids ? how many kids don't know how to climb a fence ? While I was there I actually had a lot of fun. | |
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