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| The Spiritual significance of Romance
Posted: 12/16/2007 1:03:51 PM | As I sit here listening to a Rat Pack rendition of Sammy Davis singing “What Kind of Fool am I” I had a thought… a sinking sensation… a pilfering profligacy of listless meanderings that got me thinking what importance does romance have on spirituality? I mean if you are not prone to romantic desires of intimacy is it possible that you won’t achieve a level of spiritual understanding? Is it possible that as humans a certain level of sanity is lost to us who have no romantic connections?
I mean… let’s face it… most of us if we weren’t single would be spending as much time as we do in this forum. (Maybe that’s why God put this forum in the plans…)
(Anywho… just a meandering thought of no real significance… just s stolen wasted thought of the particularly limp kind. Oh well… “The best of Rat Pack” at walmart for 5 bucks a few years back and I still love it! Wish I’d seen them live. But the romantic nature of their songs really strikes a nerve with me... guess I've got a sort of sin-cityromanticshouldbelisteningtochristiancontempsongs-moment going on. ) | |
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| The Spiritual significance of Romance
Posted: 12/16/2007 1:10:34 PM | Spirituality and romance are things that, if not somehow causally linked, are at least correlated in my life.
I find that romance, especially as it applies to love, is a very spiritual experience, and has the capacity to fill one's soul with something that would otherwise be missing.
I also feel that you're right about the ability for romantic desires to bring about new levels of spiritual understanding.
Just as washing dishes can be a chance for religious reflection, and an orgasm can be a taste of heaven/the afterlife, I definitely find that romance is like a small taste of enlightenment, where one is feeling at one with their partner, rather than with the whole universe.
Just my two cents, and btw, I like the thread idea.
~ David | |
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| The Spiritual significance of Romance
Posted: 12/17/2007 10:29:59 AM |
Just as washing dishes can be a chance for religious reflection, and an orgasm can be a taste of heaven/the afterlife, I definitely find that romance is like a small taste of enlightenment, where one is feeling at one with their partner, rather than with the whole universe.
Just my two cents, and btw, I like the thread idea.
Hey David!
Me too and besides, I can get in early..only two postings!! Laundry does that whole spiritual reflection thing for me, and call me frigid but I've had enough of any romance. It works for me right now, but I wonder what it will be like when all the kids and grandkids are gone. Maybe I'll wake up one day and go "geez, wish I had of not been so selfish twenty years ago".
For now, its just me and God, my kids, my job, church and--POF--of course. | |
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| The Spiritual significance of Romance
Posted: 12/17/2007 2:00:28 PM | Interesting thread idea Statueman!
I see people jumping from one relationship to another... what I call "leap frogs" who can't let go of one crappy relationship until they have another lily pad in sight...
Anyway, those people to me are afraid of facing themselves and their issues, of delving beneath the surface... and if you watch them (which, having been single for soooo long I have been able to, lol..) you will see how they repeat their patterns over and over again, never really learning anything and dragging ever more baggage each time they jump to the next lily pad...
Is that really preferable to remaining single?
I don't think so.... I would rather be alone (though I truly am never alone ;) than to be in something where my heart isn't in it...
I mean if you are not prone to romantic desires of intimacy is it possible that you won’t achieve a level of spiritual understanding? As for having no romantic desires? I cannot say that is true of me.... so I cannot comment in that regard, but I will say that much can be achieved spiritually on your own...
However.... I also believe that you eventually get to a point where you have done all the "work" you can on your own and now need the deeper experience that romantic love provides...
Until then... I'll just BE :) | |
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| The Spiritual significance of Romance
Posted: 12/17/2007 2:14:49 PM | what importance does romance have on spirituality
I would venture to say none what so ever. Yahshuah .....Jesus....... was single. And he is the King of Spirituality.....Right? ...... Right  | |
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| The Spiritual significance of Romance
Posted: 12/17/2007 2:32:03 PM | ^^
But, according to your religion, Jesus was the King of Spirituality because he was the Son of God, not because he was a bachelor.
Correllation does not necessarily equal causation. Nor does any religion necessarily equal truth.
~ David | |
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| The Spiritual significance of Romance
Posted: 12/17/2007 2:38:34 PM | I think there is something that you only "get" when you are in love. You can still be spiritual, but there is a spiritual aspect of sex & romance. I think that some people call it Tantra.
But if you're not spiritual, then how can you understand spiritual intimacy, even in a relationship?
I think it's easier to get on with someone of a like mind. So if you're spiritual, it only makes sense to find someone who is also spiritual.
Just my meandering thoughts. | |
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| The Spiritual significance of Romance
Posted: 12/17/2007 2:40:29 PM | yes, Jesus was single....he was only 33 when he died....he knew that was the plan... so maybe after knowing this he choose to remain single so that he would not leave behind a widow, and fatherless children.
He did seem to enjoy his foot bath,  | |
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| The Spiritual significance of Romance
Posted: 12/17/2007 2:55:30 PM | Spirituality is based on clarity (seeing it how it really is) love and acceptance.
Is not sustaining romantic intimacy based on exactly the same?
And are not all those things based on simple 'honesty' :)
And is not spirituality also enhanced by observation and 'appreciation'....
If anyone has had a really over the top wow spiritual or god connection...the experience they describe is pretty much the same as being in love :)
If you can fly in one sphere you can fly in the other. Let go of controlling outcomes and simply 'let go'. And in the immortal words of Lennon "Let it Be".
Great thread and great connection Stat. | |
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| The Spiritual significance of Romance
Posted: 12/17/2007 3:12:30 PM | I think to be in love is to express more fully the heart of God for that is when we forgive unconditionally, care for the other person most, focus our thoughts and energy on that other, feel alive, feel passion, feel that all things are possible, feel young, feel creative, and wonder at the wonderful world we occupy. The Ascetics (??) would have us ignore a significant part of our self in order to reach some higher place, be more spiritual, but they fool only themselves because they don't understand what they are missing.
As for common spirituality, it enhances romantic love. It adds another dimension to all that two can share, it links the soul as well as the heart and mind of the two as they become One. It's no guarantee of commonality, but if it's there, it's able to enhance everything that is shared. | |
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| The Spiritual significance of Romance
Posted: 12/17/2007 3:26:59 PM | But, according to your religion, Jesus was the King of Spirituality because he was the Son of God, not because he was a bachelor
You are absolutely right!!!! His Kingship has nothing to do with him being a bachelor, I was just responding to the topic at hand. But YOUR words paint a more true picture. .....thanks | |
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| The Spiritual significance of Romance
Posted: 12/17/2007 4:59:18 PM | At first when I wrote this thread I was alittle suprised that it didn't take off and i thought... oh well you've been being abrasive and folks really don't want to talk to you right now. But today I come on and see that folks like the idea I'm more than alittle pleased since ... well... as Sally Fields once said,
"You like me!!! You REALLY LIKE ME!!!"
OK I'll stop acting weird now... even though I'm sure most of you know it's not an act. BUT ALAS THAT IS PART OF THE INTIMACY OF THIS FORUM
can i get an amen?
GETTING TOKNOW YOUUUUUU
GETTING TOKNOW ALLL ABOUT YOUUUUUUU
Anyway I do think that a mature spirituality can do nothing but aid in having a true and honest lasting relationship of the 50th anniveresery kind. Let's see... I'm 43 and if I find someone this year and we both live I'll be 93 when that happens. Ahh well... maybe I'll reconsider my position on stem cell research.
Anyway. Guys... I gotta ask you? Aren't these ladies in the religious forum gorgeous? To quote the master crooner
"If I had it in my power... I would arrange for every girl to have you charms
and then every minuet every hour... every boy would find what I've found in your heart." - Dean Martin (fresh from the bar) 'Everybody Loves Somebody Sometime' | |
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| The Spiritual significance of Romance
Posted: 12/17/2007 5:17:51 PM | I think that all aspects of human experience has a spiritual dimension, romance no exception. To place that aspect of *your* nature and experience before your neighbours, and proclaim it as sole and supreme, is ill-conceived at best.
As someone that has had a long interest in his NW European heritage, I guess alot of my... ummm... "ideals" of romance were shaped, in part, by the tales of the tales of various knights and their ladies, of "courtly love"... which has always seemed to me to go back to the strong prescence of one goddess of another in the battle lore of the Celts and Teutonic peoples. It almost like in the later poetry the knights lady takes the place of, or perhaps comes to embody, the role of the goddess.
In Viking Age myth the goddess Freyja is said to have power over victory in war and to share half of the battle-slain with the Lord of Hosts, and she ruled over passion, beauty, expressions of beauty, and our aesthetic (or just plain sensual) appreciation of such things. Her name is connected to the noble class, and from as early as Caesar we read of the great influence Teutonic women had in matters of war, and at times even donned armour and took up weapons to personally lead a warband in battle. According to the Roman historian Tacitus (1 century CE), the anceint Germans would bring their woman and children to the battlefield with them, as cheerleaders of sorts... though in a very dire game. You know, the love that inspires one... as with the later knight and his lady .
The goddess Freyja is also said to have a *twin* brother named Yngvi-FreyR, whose proper name (Yngvi, Ingui, Ing) is found centuries earlier in the writings of Tacitus, who states that he gave his name to all of those tribes living along the seashore, and to have been the son of a deity called Mannus. The name Mannus is an elder Germanic form of the Modern English *Man*, though in elder times it was used mostly as a reference for *genus*, as opposed to *gender*.... with gender being referenced by such prefixes as "wera" (as in were-wolf) or "sword" for the male, and "wifa" (as in wife) or "spindle" for the female.
I've always gotten the idea that the deity Man was hermaphroditic, begetting complimentary twins, the male and the female, two aspects of a great whole that is greater than either on it's own.
The idea of wholeness is very big in Germanic thought... the term stems from the same Anglo-Saxon root as the word *holy*. And from what we know of Man, he was concerend with mankind's social nature and defining the relationship between the various ranks of the social hierarchy, so that everyone could work together as a greater whole. In this way of thinking, which is mostly an observation of a fact that is hardwired into human nature, it is better to be at the bottom of a social hierarchy than to be without friends and companions entirely. In other wrods, no man is an island unto himself.... and I like to think that the relationship between a man and a woman is something like that. It's not that we cannot be whole without the prescence of a romantic partner in our lives. Afterall, we have family, friends, acquaintences. But I do think we are less whole withour romance. I think that it brings something to our lives, to our personality, that prompts/inspires/enables us to step it up in ways we otherwise might not.
And certainly, as something that lifts us up and out of ourselves, romance (can) brings us a step closer to the divine. | |
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| The Spiritual significance of Romance
Posted: 12/17/2007 5:29:35 PM |
Correllation does not necessarily equal causation. Nor does any religion necessarily equal truth.
ROFL!! Talk about fallacy of irrelevancy!!
You know, although I disagree w/ your analogy, you have brought up an interesting point. Jesus was the King (I don't know about this title of "King of Spirituality"--altho he is by the very nature of Himself) and I don't believe He could have been if He had chosen something that would potentially distract Him from His mission--to be the Redeemer of the Earth.
I mean, why would Jesus choose to establish a relationship with a woman knowing that her heart would have to be broken later? There wasn't any BC in those days...no surefire BC anyway, so why would He bring children in this world..I mean...the whole thing would just mess up the Plan....anyway, I don't think Jesus was using either of those reasons in choosing not to get hooked up.
I think He was the Son of God manifested as a man and knew what had to happen, and He made it happen, despite considerable self-sacrifice. I think He did it so that when we stand before Him...we really have no excuses...we have only example.
Neither are we more spiritual because we are single---the Bible says where any two come together and ask in His name....so I think that a marriage would be very much sanctioned if both parties were in Christ--or headed that way. | |
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| The Spiritual significance of Romance
Posted: 12/17/2007 5:47:39 PM | I think if we could figure out how to become "unhuman" and pure spirit we could elimate the need for romatic love, if we wanted to, it is my understanding romantic love is a function purely of being human. Love itself is something entirely different and they can come in the same package deal (at least we hope.) However, we cannot pull apart that deep duality that we have of spirit or human because then it would negate our purpose of being here. So in the presence of romantic endeavors we are creating the reality that we want for the good or bad. So to have romantic relations, if it feels like the right thing to do for you, it probably is and vice versa. I think being a human rocks and sucks, the effect of simultaneous contrast makes it ever so intoxicating.
I have yet to find a romatic relationship that didn't drain my power, which is why I remain single however - that doesn't keep me from trying roll:
love,
me: | |
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| The Spiritual significance of Romance
Posted: 12/17/2007 7:06:33 PM | My spiritualness, energy, who I am and the expression of all of these are intertwined with how I feel and express myself on a romantic level.
I can't see how a person can separate them. When you fall in love it affects you on all levels.
Expressions of love, closeness, nurturing and sex in it's many forms... is an exchange of energy and emotions. I think a good way of explaining it is Tantric...if you do a search just go by all of the sites that talk about the purely physical form. True Tantra is about the giving and receiving of energy. I think to be able to really know you are experiencing it.. you have to be familiar with and be able to identify your own energies. It can be very incredible and the main idea of it is that you both connect with God. It's very beautiful and healing. | |
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| The Spiritual significance of Romance
Posted: 12/17/2007 7:43:55 PM | | I agree with your point as well mystic, sex can be deeply spiritual but I also think that it is only through being human that we can experience that type of connection to divine, and that is only one flavor of "god" type ecstacy that we are experiencing with sex. | |
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| The Spiritual significance of Romance
Posted: 12/17/2007 8:28:33 PM | Aww I love this thread! Without romance there would be nothing really to ignite my desire for anyone. It brings flavor to life that makes it so heart-wrenching fun and great!
I agree with SassyAquarious on being single till you find the one that you could have a carefree euphoric time with. | |
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| The Spiritual significance of Romance
Posted: 12/17/2007 10:56:18 PM | to my own OP question
I mean if you are not prone to romantic desires of intimacy is it possible that you won’t achieve a level of spiritual understanding? Is it possible that as humans a certain level of sanity is lost to us who have no romantic connections?
I think the answer to my absurd question is no. I mean intimacy can be achieved without the use of genitals, touch or even sight or sound. A human being is able to love and have a yearning for the company of that certain someone without the need or perhaps even the ability to reproduce - which is I suppose the basis of romance.
BUTT! In the spirit of the thread I can see that "Intimacy" is the mo-better word in looking at spirituality and I think that was taken as my meaning here.
some HIGHLIGHTS 4 me...
sassy
Anyway, those people to me are afraid of facing themselves and their issues, of delving beneath the surface... and if you watch them (which, having been single for soooo long I have been able to, lol..) you will see how they repeat their patterns over and over again, never really learning anything and dragging ever more baggage each time they jump to the next lily pad...
As my good friend the irreverent reverend YIKES used to say... if you can't say amen then say ouch. Did you know me when I was stationed in Korea? They called them butterflys there and according to some Korean Ladies I was a monarch!
Wendersum
If anyone has had a really over the top wow spiritual or god connection...the experience they describe is pretty much the same as being in love :)
As I read your words and sit here typing and listening to a Glenn Miller cd rendition of "Moonlight Serenade" the song of Solomon came to mind
Strengthen me with raisins,
refresh me with apples,
for I am faint with love.
And indeed the mystery of love is perpetual... and endearing... a connection akin to the insanity many accuse us in this forum. A love for something beyond ourselves...
romanticoptimist
I think to be in love is to express more fully the heart of God for that is when we forgive unconditionally, care for the other person most, focus our thoughts and energy on that other, feel alive, feel passion, feel that all things are possible, feel young, feel creative, and wonder at the wonderful world we occupy.
STOP THE CLOCK!!! "The moon stood still on blueberry hill, and lingered until my dreams came true." (Yeah... still got Ole Glenn in my ear...)
It adds another dimension to all that two can share, it links the soul as well as the heart and mind of the two as they become One.
Indeed... my feeling is that if we but replace the word romance with intimacy the sex is taken out and the oneness is put into a perspective that transcends gender. But you definately deserve your name romanticoptimist.
Of course I won't tell you how I got the nickname statueman... anywho...
JMars
But I do think we are less whole withour romance. I think that it brings something to our lives, to our personality, that prompts/inspires/enables us to step it up in ways we otherwise might not.
And certainly, as something that lifts us up and out of ourselves, romance (can) brings us a step closer to the divine. If I may... one more time... Solomons tune again from memory... it's the last line
You who dwell in the garden... with your friends in attendance, let me hear your voice!
Come away my lover and be like a gazelle, or like a young roe on the spice laden mountains.
Mystic Water
It can be very incredible and the main idea of it is that you both connect with God. It's very beautiful and healing.
and in contrast
average anomoly
I have yet to find a romatic relationship that didn't drain my power, which is why I remain single however - that doesn't keep me from trying
well... as a female friend of mine used to say as she got the biggest loser she could find and had a roll in the hay... "I like really sick people..." we never got together as I wasn't quite sick enough. But she never seemed drained... wasn't trying to fix them just ... well ... you get the picture.
Baber
ends with agreeing with something
sassy said
and well... so do I and even though I promised that i wouldn't quote the song of solomon lemme do it one mo time paleaasssee!
I charge you by the gazelles and by the does of the field:
Do not arouse or awaken love
until it so desires. | |
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| The Spiritual significance of Romance
Posted: 12/18/2007 5:46:41 AM |
I think if we could figure out how to become "unhuman" and pure spirit we could elimate the need for romatic love
Why would we want to become "unhuman". You might as well suggest dogs that are "undogs' make better pets, or "non-beef taste" steaks are yummier. Being human is what we are because it's who we are. Who would not want to be fully "human"? Why would we not want to fully experience romantic love?
And from a Christian perspective, Jesus came to save the whole "human", the whole bag, not one part or the other. Any doctrine that divides the "human" fails to recognize that not only did He comes to save "all" as in everyone, but "all" as in the total person. And that includes romantic love. God wants us to experience ALL that is as He created us. The difference is that He wants us to experience it as the humans we were created to be. We are to enjoy food, but not be gluttons. We are to enjoy sex and love, but not use it to abuse others or ourselves, or manipulate and trade it as a commodity. Wine is good. Too much is drunkenness. Pleasure is good. Excessive pleasure is debauchery. Be fully human and enjoy your humanity. But be wise about limits and excesses. | |
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| The Spiritual significance of Romance
Posted: 12/18/2007 6:35:39 AM |
I have yet to find a romatic relationship that didn't drain my power, which is why I remain single however - that doesn't keep me from trying roll:
Ok this is just a different thought.
You said the relationship is what drained you. So how often were you recharging it?... lol. Some say we as beings are spiritual energy contained in a body. That could be similar to a battery. If that battery is always the one supplying the power then yes it will drain. So if the plug is plugged into the socket and only one side is supplying energy then that energy will simply flow from one to the other.
Kinda like one being the positive and the other being a ground or negative. When a positive is grounded the energy will flow into that ground.
That example seems like a boring way for me. Even if the two people switch back and forth between being the positive or the ground the energy is still flowing ONLY one way.
If you have two negatives plugging in together well no energy is flowing in any direction. That sounds VERY boring to me.
Now the fun side of life....
You stick two positives together with each one attempting to flow energy into the other I would say that could be a big WOW. There is no escape for the energy so if both are flowing it and yet there is no ground for it to exit into that means all that energy is trapped between them. Both sides flowing it and building it up.
Once that energy between reaches to a level where the space between them can no longer contain it, that energy can no longer be controlled by either of them and it takes on traits of its own basically forcing itself back into each one with the power of both contained within it......
That results in well..... I think the rest of this would not be suitable for all viewers and thus censored but you can use your own mind to fill in the missing parts 
These are just my thoughts and opinions on the way I noticed things have worked for me in my journey. | |
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| The Spiritual significance of Romance
Posted: 12/18/2007 7:15:24 AM |
Is it possible that as humans a certain level of sanity is lost to us who have no romantic connections?
I'm not so sure I'd put it that way, but if you feel unloved it can affect your well being for sure... I have had very few romantic connections and I'm pretty sane (I'm guessing).
One thing it seems to me is that if you are spiritually insynch with someone and allow each other to grow spiritually through give and take, romance is a natural effect.
I mean… let’s face it… most of us if we weren’t single would be spending as much time as we do in this forum. (Maybe that’s why God put this forum in the plans…)
Yeah... I like it too. | |
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| The Spiritual significance of Romance
Posted: 12/18/2007 7:34:33 AM | what importance does romance have on spirituality?
Now? The utmost... way back it didn't figure in my life because I was too busy enjoying the frivolity of it.
Is it possible that as humans a certain level of sanity is lost to us who have no romantic connections?
What is sane to a young man starting out in life these days? It's down to various things, how you perceive your life - for most, it's not a question of where your going, even the question of who I am, seldom comes up. Maturity affords other thoughts to take their place doesn't it? That's why I think it's important not to institutionalize/indoctrinate young people, give them the basics of everything...
The seed is planted, let it grow.
I mean… let’s face it… most of us if we weren’t single would be spending as much time as we do in this forum. (Maybe that’s why God put this forum in the plans…)
I think you are right here... it follows what I'm saying too. :) | |
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| The Spiritual significance of Romance
Posted: 12/18/2007 8:13:48 AM | Let’s face it, we put ourselves in this shop window to see whom we can relate to and if that develops into great friendship, we are half way there. That’s not to say disappointments won’t ensue… they do and will, have and probably will continue…
Now, from my own experiences while I’ve been here, I have to consider if this wasn’t the way it should be – I’ve stopped looking anymore, perhaps I’ve been pushing the issue of a romantic “happening” and I’ve done all I can do… it’s out of my control and in the hand of fate. | |
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| The Spiritual significance of Romance
Posted: 12/18/2007 8:32:33 AM | I agree with your point as well mystic, sex can be deeply spiritual but I also think that it is only through being human that we can experience that type of connection to divine, and that is only one flavor of "god" type ecstacy that we are experiencing with sex.
Average...your statement is kind of an anomaly to me lol. I mean I agree with you and I also feel you are on to something, because I do think that sex (done properly and within marriage) can and is a very great experiance and again it is a gift from God, but a gift to be used wisely. Unfortunately most people misuse it in some way, so it doesn't get the honour that it deserves in a marital context anymore among society.
So Statuteman, you also have a point. But anything that is done from a good and sincere heart and a pure motive can be the same. I mean when we pray, that is one of the best opportunities for us to be close to God and that obviously strengthens our spirituality. So does meditation and just living a life of control in all areas. | |
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