| Supplement help for a hardgainer?
Posted: 12/22/2007 8:48:56 AM | Ok I realize there are probably much better forums for this type of question but I prefer to get my answers from more regular people, not gym monkeys who give mostly bad advice. Not to mention the people on these forums seem to be pretty cool and helpful 
I don't really know where to start with this because there are many things to consider. Basically right now I'm 6'3" and 175 lbs (way too skinny), and I want to gain 30 lbs by the end of June. Under normal circumstances I could probably do it fairly easily as my weight tends to fluctuate a lot depending on what I'm doing at the time. My ideal weight is somewhere between 190-200 lbs, I'll usually hover around this weight under average conditions.
However, I'm also a framer (I build new houses), my job is really physically demanding and since August I've lost 30 lbs (I stopped going to the gym because I knew at the start it would be too much to keep up with, too tired at the end of the day). I was also in school for 2 months for my apprenticeship after I lost the bulk of the weight and this is when my muscles basically went into total atrophy (I lost 1" from my arms in 2 months...).
So now I've got myself a brand spankin new gym membership and I am desperate to get into killer shape for this summer. I'm not as concerned about workout routines, as I'm quite knowledgeable myself and I will be getting help from a personal trainer to tailor some routines specifically to me.
What I really want help with is the whole other side of lifting... diet, supplements, rest etc...
I would really like to know a good supplement stack to start out with (I'd like to take as few things as possible, but we all know supplements can make a huge difference if used properly). I was thinking about starting out with a high calorie weight gainer, some form of creatine product (haven't taken creatine since high school and I know it's changed a lot since then, so no idea what's the best to take anymore), and a multi vitamin. Maybe add one more into the mix, but I'd like to limit it to that.
I'm also horrible when it comes to counting calories and whatnot, if what I'm eating has a label on it I'm good, but when it comes to things like a plate full of mixed veggies, a hunk of steak etc I have no idea what I'm consuming calorie-wise so it's hard to track my diet.
I would especially like to hear from anybody who's in the construction trade with a physically demanding job (not all construction jobs are hard lol... we've all seen the knob spinning the stop/slow sign for road work). Also anybody who would consider themselves a hardgainer at the gym, what supplements did you take to bust over the hump?
Thanks in advance for all your help (please only post if you have something constructive to contribute, if you don't know what you're talking about please don't post!)  | |
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gajira
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Joined: 11/11/2007
Msg: 2 | |
| Supplement help for a hardgainer?
Posted: 12/22/2007 3:13:08 PM | | I can't recommend any specific products, as they differ so much by country, but I will offer a little advice about creatine. It's great generally, but I found when I was gyming and working a physically demanding job (building and shifting IKEA furniture) I just couldn't get enough water for it. I was getting muscle cramps as a result. So if you do decide to take it, keep a lot of water handy. These days I workout at home and I'm training to be a teacher, so I can go flat out with the weights and taking creatine isn't a problem, but if you're doing a hard job and hitting the gym, you may find the side effects outweigh the benefits. | |
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| Supplement help for a hardgainer?
Posted: 12/22/2007 10:26:40 PM | I wouldn't worry about counting calories just as long as your eating every 3 hours.
If you want to pack on the beef especially if your a framer (I've done drywall) you will need a steady supply of calories so that includes big meals and shakes, no cardio or severely limit it if you can't get the calories you need.
Protein is simple, steak, fish (salmon is best) turkey, tuna, chicken. all you need is 1 portion size (size of fist) along with 1 serving of a complex carb such as a sweet potato and then fill up on vegetables and throw some MCT oil in for some good cheap fats.
because most of you're meals are going to be on a job site I'd recommend getting used to big sandwiches but stay away from white bread and stick to whole grains. you can still eat your fruits and vegetables. I also buy the bulk containers of nuts and seeds to snack on during the day. they are high in protein and good fats.
I used to drink loads of milk but i really don't think it's a safe product anymore so i mix my shakes in water unless i can get unpasteurized milk preferably not from a juiced up cow.
I do like the idea of a high calorie protein powder as long as your not drinking it at night. just in the morning is good but you should still be having 2 or more shakes in the day especially right after your workout and i would have half a shake before bed to.
Creatine is good but don't bother with a loading phase, it's just a gimmick to sell more but i 'd always stack my creatine with vanadyl sulfate from Sportpharma USA and I'd swell up like a balloon because the vanadyl pushes even more creatine into your muscles.
there are lots of good multivitamins but i prefer something time released or something oil based that i can take a few times per day. also if you can get some vanadyl sulfate take 2 caps 3 times a day with your meals and 2 with your creatine right before your workout and then your shake after.
there are also lots of good testosterone precursors out there and i would recommend one.
you can also find lots of good info on bodybuilding.com
it's important to maximize the amount of food you process buy eating smaller more frequent meals, with shakes you can really increase the calorie count without the fat, as long as you stay away from junk calories judging what type of weight you will be gaining will be easy. If you are getting bigger, stronger and fatter just back off on the carbs, if you're getting stronger but not really bigger add some carbs, protein and fats should gradually increase as you put on weight but you can always play with your carbs.
I'll write more as i remember it about supplements. | |
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| Supplement help for a hardgainer?
Posted: 12/23/2007 1:27:51 AM | What you need is calories. You need to eat, constantly.
If you struggle to find the appetite, drink a weight gainer as much as you need, but 99% of making decent gains is how much you're eating. | |
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| Supplement help for a hardgainer?
Posted: 12/23/2007 1:51:00 PM | Eat lots of food, make your own weight gaining shake with some bulk whey protein, train hard, and sleep great.
Those are the keys to getting big!!!!!!!! | |
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| Supplement help for a hardgainer?
Posted: 2/27/2008 11:29:15 PM | Well if you are not keen on giving Anabolic/Androgenic Steroids a try then I would suggest taking an High Quality Whey Protein Concentrate several times a day with a few empty calories added.
I would also consider taking some glutamine at 10-30grams daily along with some creatine.
With your workouts I would do less reps but more heavier exercises. Lift up to atleast 80-85% of your 1rep maximum. So for example if you can only bench press 250lbs then lift maybe 3 sets of 3-5 reps of 200lbs or so.
This will not only increase your strength but increase your mass as well. Also get plenty of rest and eat enough clean calories to fuel your growth and don't over train. | |
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| Supplement help for a hardgainer?
Posted: 2/28/2008 8:36:39 AM | I recently started working out again after months of recovering from an injury, and here is what I am doing which seems to be working pretty well. I've always considered myself a hardgainer. My goal is to gain as much muscle and strength as possible while not getting fat in the process and without using illegal or dangerous drugs.
Keep in mind you need to take in enough calories and protein during each day in order to maximize your gains, or else your gains will be limited. Eat as healthy as you can and avoid junk foods and sugar as much as possible and drink lots of filtered water to keep well hydrated.
The supplements I am taking right now(most of which I brought over the internet by using the froogle search engine to find the lowest price www.froogle.com) are 6-OXO Extreme(lower estrogen and keep testosterone from getting converted to estrogen), 11-OXO(to reduce cortisol)(both from Ergopharm), N-1T from Universal Nutrion(increase Testosterone), Avena Sativa from Action Labs(supposedly helps reduce SBHG), Ultimate Daily Support multivitamin from Real Advantage Nutrients, Sorenzyme from Labrada Nutrition(to increase recovery rate), Radox from Syntrax(potent anti-oxidant formula), a vitamin D-3 supplement that provides 1000IU of Vitamin D-3.
I also use a high quality protein powder several times per day(the best brand I've found so far) called Paleomeal from Designs for Health. It is hard to find, here is a site that has good info on it
https://www.rockwellnutrition.com/product.asp?itemid=659
I mix in some extra virgin olive oil or extra virgin coconut oil(I use both oils during the course of a day and the oils are always kept refrigerated after opening to keep it as fresh as possible)and add in a dropper of a supplement called Super ViraGon from Baseline Nutrionals(strong natural anti-viral/anti-bacterial) which helps keep me from getting sick and contains many healthy ingredients and a prostate support supplement called Prostate Health from Gaia Herbs as well as a Beta Sitosterol supplement.
I'd probably add more supplements if I could like a good creatine supplement, but can't really afford anything else right now. | |
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| Supplement help for a hardgainer?
Posted: 2/28/2008 9:43:35 AM | As others have said, calories are key to weight gain. For supplements I would recommend a weight gainer, doesn't really matter which one you go with but with a tall skinny guy like yourself I would suggest something like quickmass or muscle juice, or any other gainer that is around the 1000 calories per serving mark.
For a multivitamin go with universal animal pak, or beverly ultra 4 vitamin pack.
As far as creatine goes, with your particular goals I would suggest something basic like monohydrate and dextrose, pretty much what the old cell-tech was like, but as a different poster said, make sure you can take in adequate amounts of water(6+ liters) or you might cramp up.
Glutamine is also a product that would be great to use, it helps out with recovery and if you are training and working hard all day long anything you can do to help the recovery process is going to be very important.
All that having been said, no matter what supplements you take, calories are still the be all and end all of weight gain. Eat more today than you did yesterday, and eat more tomorrow than you ate today. | |
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DSW77
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Joined: 1/25/2008
Msg: 9 | |
| Supplement help for a hardgainer?
Posted: 2/28/2008 1:35:24 PM | I've been into bodybuilding on a recreational basis for 14 years and my advice is....Dont go crazy with supplements! at this stage of the game you just need the basics...A weight gainer, multi vitamin, you can give creatine a shot if you like...but the most inmportant thing is to consume quality food! if your not gaining 1lb a week increase your calories by 500, good calories of course! you want to gain 30 lbs by june....thats alot of weight! especially since your doing this naturally I assume? without the use of anabolics.. 12-15lbs sounds about right! you could gain 30lbs....if you started eating way over your caloric needs to gain solid weight, but the majority would be fat! much better to take things slow...thats why I said 1 soild pound a week! it wont all be pure muscle but you will look much better! If your looking for a good weight gainer to use I currently like Ultimate Nutritions Muscle Juice! solid line of products in general! as far as a routine...keep it simple! always trying to increase weight, or reps...once you hit your rep goal increase your weight... 4 days a week, 3 exercises a bodypart, 2 for smaller muscle groups, and a 6-10 rep range should do the trick...remember ABC, 1,2,3, always stick to the basics..keep it simple...good luck! happy lifting! | |
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| Supplement help for a hardgainer?
Posted: 2/29/2008 7:23:30 AM | ^^^
what he said is basically the jist of it in a nutshell....I am in the same boat you are smitty in that I am a hardgainer, and have always been. I am 6'3" tall and about 204, couldn't pinch fat on me if you tried, but the last 20 lbs I gained was the hardest because for years my weight never fluctuated no matter how much I ate and so on...When you are 6'-3" tall, 204lbs doesn't look very big to some, but if I was the average 5'5" or so tall, I would be overweight. So it's all relative. And remember, someone who's 204 with muscle looks completely different than someone at 204 who's got a high bofy fat count. So there is a difference more than in just THE NUMBER.
So I supplemented, ate my tail off, and worked out hard in the gym doing alot of low reps, compound exercises....stay off the cardio work being you have a demanding job as your career, you get your cardio enough there, you don't need to burn and waste extra caleries...
with me, whatever I DO gain in weight is muscle, because fat doesn't stick to me even if someone threw 10lbs of fat at me it would slide right off because of my extremely high metabolism, so whatever I do gain is muscle, therefore, the results will take longer but the results are more rewarding...Just like a person wanting to lose weight, and lose it fast, some people who want to gain the weight want to also see the results fast and it doesn't work that way unless it's the unhealthy way, which is not the way you obviously want to go....the mental aspect of losing or gaining is as much important as the physical is, so keep that in mind.
Eat ALOT...I eat a ton and I get tired of it myself, because honestly, the more yu eat the more energy your body also burns, but you need the fuel in you for all the other processes of building and breaking down foods and of the like....
So it's not rocket science really, It took me years to get it through my head, I could get stronger and stronger in the gym, but the weight wouldn't pack on because obviously muscle takes longer to develop than adding the fat, so just BE PATIENT, and do it the right way. And keep in mind it's alot more than just consuming alot of food, do it smart and eat the right things at the RIGHT TIMES....nutrient timing is one of the most critical things to understand....when you take certain foods, supplements, and powders, not just taking them whenever. I can gain 7 lbs in one night from eating and drinking and lose it all by morning, so when you are eating alot and drinking alot, keep in mind your water and food weight ratio to your real weight and when to weaigh yourself...
baby steps man...take it from someone who knows and is in the same boat you are, it won't happen overnight, but if you WANT RESULTS, do it right and eventually it will happen....I am working on getting to the 210 lb mark by end of summer...and it won't be easy, but as long as my weights go up in the gym, and I am getting stronger, and I continue to change up my routines and not let it get stagnant, and I get the "good soreness" from workouts, than I know I am headed in the right direction and only time will bear the results. | |
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| Supplement help for a hardgainer?
Posted: 2/29/2008 8:40:48 PM | Redwood,
I've always considered myself a hardgainer. My goal is to gain as much muscle and strength as possible while not getting fat in the process
You list yourself as "a few extra pounds" on your profile. If the OP is thin and you are overweight, how could your program suit him? | |
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| Supplement help for a hardgainer?
Posted: 2/29/2008 9:34:10 PM | Smitty I am in total agreement with dsw on this one weight gain is great but make sure it the proper kind of weight eat balanced meals with a good weight gainner rest and heavy weight training remember the body can only digest so much at a time befor the rest is stored as fat even to much protien is stored this way  | |
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| Supplement help for a hardgainer?
Posted: 2/29/2008 9:50:00 PM | hello hey tought I would weigh in on this one when I first started bodybuilding I was working in const. so kinda know what your going though. Hey I would like to say that I agree with DSW awaitingu and Pan 53 on this eat balanced meals increase your caloric intake moderately to start used a good weight gainer with the proper aminos
get as much rest as you can work out smart using the proper weight to stimulate
muscle growth keep the reps in the 6-8 range but make the weight enough to beheavy on your last rep keep extra carido down work is enough right now you want to gain weight but make sure it's good weight | |
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| Supplement help for a hardgainer?
Posted: 3/1/2008 10:54:30 AM | Food should be your major supplement. If your not gaining weight off your current diet, start eating more food. It doesn't hurt to do a few shakes a day either(3 good meals, 3 protein shakes mixed with milk, peanut butter, ice cream, etc... ) to help with the weight gain if your really struggling.
All in all its a calorie deficit. Make sure your training is more strength oriented then hypertrophy oriented and you will get stronger and bigger(5 sets of 5 works really well) while being able to stay lean. | |
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| Supplement help for a hardgainer?
Posted: 3/2/2008 10:56:16 AM | This is the most important advice you will ever get.
#1. Go to www.t-nation.com.
#2. Create a new account.
#3. Log into the forums.
#4. Go to the "Beginners" forum.
#5. Post your situation in there and in a very, very humble manner, ask for advice.
#6. Be very, very polite, humble, and grateful for the advice you get; it will be the best advice you can get short of a $120/hour bodybuilding coach.
#7. If you don't do this, you are short-changing yourself of a very good opportunity. T-Nation is the greatest body-transformation resource on the web. Period.
- Christopher93 | |
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| Supplement help for a hardgainer?
Posted: 3/3/2008 3:21:50 PM | Good job man!
That is a really good weight gain in a short time.
You secretly want to be 220 now don't you? | |
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| Supplement help for a hardgainer?
Posted: 3/3/2008 5:57:31 PM | The best supplement for gaining weight/muscle quickly that I've encountered is creatine. Creatine causes 'cell-volumizing' by pulling water inside the muscle cell making them larger. The effect looks more pronounced if you have low body fat.
I've used Betagen which combines creatine, HMB, taurine, and glutamine and have seen great results. It's not unheard of to gain up to 10 pounds in one week. | |
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