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| Empathy, Telepapthy etc...
Posted: 12/23/2007 6:33:48 AM | | I have heard the term empath thrown out lately by a couple of women. What does that mean? What is the difference between that and being psychic? I know people have talked about psychic abilities on this forum. I am more familiar with telepathy and prophetic abilities, but not being an empath.... Your thoughts would be appreciated.. | |
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| Empathy, Telepapthy etc...
Posted: 12/23/2007 7:02:45 AM | I believe I am more of an empath than psychic.
An empath is able to "feel" that which a person is feeling, rather than what they are thinking. Sometimes, I am able to figure out why they feel sad, happy, etc, but for the most part, it is always about the feelings. Both emotional and physical.
It's not very pleasant most of the time. And I'm always mindful that I am intruding unasked, so it's something I've learned to turn off and NOT use. Most people are unaware that they constantly transmit their life for anyone to "hear". But in unguarded moments, I often "feel" emotions. For the most part, folks carry about a lot of negativity. I HATE malls, hospitals, churches, but I love concerts, pow wows.
When people fall or physically hurt themselves, or even if I see it on TV, oh my God, it is the worst feeling. My body cringes from the very bottom of my spine, and depending on the extent of the injury, travels upwards. It is the most unwelcome and yucky feeling imaginable. I just hate it. Just writing about this now gives me the heebie jeebies. Funny how the emotional part does not affect me as much as the physical does....I think it's just cos I have found ways to turn it off for the most part.
This ability has often helped me in the past in my professional life, but it was also a mixed blessing in that it often contributed to feeling overwhelmed and burnt out. At this point in my life, social work is the last thing that I want to do, so I'm studying something else.
I have two bestest friends in the world, and these girls are psychic. Their abilities are far different from mine in that they are able to transcend time. I am unable to do this except for the rare occasion. I'm always in the now.
This is just my experience. I'm sure many others have different stories to tell..
Cheers, Raven | |
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| Empathy, Telepapthy etc...
Posted: 12/23/2007 7:30:23 AM | 
raveninns, I totally agree with you.
I have the same way about "feeling" the essence of beings around me. I too have learned to turn it on or off because to me there is just so much that I can take.
This ability has at times been a blessing and a curse. I chalk it up to the fact that maybe I, or we, are more sensitive and perceptive than most.
I find it extremely difficult to communicate into logical words what I "perceive" and often I just wonder if I am just too sensitive. (ex: The principal of my school has a very very cold way about him and I feel his insecurity and his angst. He is always uneasy with me and he has been hard with me at times when I went to him for help with some students. He just cannot understand the depth of the situation. To him everything can be done with logic only and without feelings... Yea... in a high school with students' hormones raging all the time... Yea... )
Anyway... I too hate to go to hospitals, malls and churches...
It is so true that people do not guard that part of their being... It is like an open book for anyone to read...
Anyway... I am glad I have found someone that understands this.  | |
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| Empathy, Telepapthy etc...
Posted: 12/23/2007 7:58:39 AM | I believe I'm an empath. I can literally "feel" other people's pain and distress...almost to the point of it completely taking over me and over my life. The empathy I feel for people and animals has no rhyme and reason and knows no bound.
I "feel" for complete strangers that I have never met and never will, and I'm often destroyed from just reading words on a public board such as this one. And I often feel bad when someone is being flamed, even if they somehow "asked" for it...they're still human beings in my eyes who are simply hurting, and who are lashing out in the only way they know how.
I often feel the whole weight of the world on my shoulders....all the injustices, the hunger, the pain, the sorrows, the greed, the inhumanity of it all...it all becomes mine to bear....stupid huh??
I don't know why I'm like this...all I know is I've been this way for as far back as I can remember. Even as a little girl, I remember being completely devastated the first time I realized that not everybody had food to eat like I did. Or a nice warm bed to sleep in.
That alone affected me in a way I cannot explain to this day. Even now, I find it very hard to go downtown and having to see the human misery that's out there...the homeless, the mentally ill, the lost, the confused, the lonely, the old...the forgotten ones....I "feel" for them all. I'll often end up sitting on the ground with them and sharing my cigarettes and having a chat with them...but it "drains" me for days....ahhhh...it's just too hard for me to describe what it really feels like ...maybe I'm just crazy who knows? 
Love and peace to all:) 
PS/EDIT: An "empath" should probably not work in a hospital like I have for the last 18 years...specially not on an oncology ward. Although it does have it's good side, as I can truly put myself in the patient's place, and they in turn can "feel" that I genuinely care for them...but in the end, it was all too much for me and I ended up suffering from a major burn-out for which I'm still slowly recovering from:)
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| Empathy, Telepapthy etc...
Posted: 12/23/2007 8:24:23 AM | Annasthasia and Old Soul, omG, it is so nice to know that we have so much in common this way...
I'm just wondering, has there always been an aversion to crowds for you? And did you choose a service based career because it "felt" like the right thing to do? And in your private life, do you try to keep your personal life minimal? Would you consider yourselves to be more of the loner type? Do you like the woods or nature cos it is a space where you can just think without outside influences? (the vibes are awesome)
LOL, I am ever nosey. I haven't met too many empaths. Actually, I did meet one in Walmart last week. She was on the verge of tears and close to a panic attack. I walked out of the store with her, and no words were said. She just looked at me when I put my hands out to carry her bags and smiled. I got to her car and said go eat something and she said she was on her way to do just that. In retrospect, it was strange, but at the time, it felt very natural.
Such is the weirdness of my life at times. Cheers to you both! | |
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| Empathy, Telepapthy etc...
Posted: 12/23/2007 8:42:09 AM | Oh my goodness... 
I'm just wondering, has there always been an aversion to crowds for you? And did you choose a service based career because it "felt" like the right thing to do? And in your private life, do you try to keep your personal life minimal? Would you consider yourselves to be more of the loner type? Do you like the woods or nature cos it is a space where you can just think without outside influences? (the vibes are awesome)
Crowds - Avoid them practically at all costs... I hate shopping... I cannot stand it.
Service based career because it felt right? - YES... I even changed careers because I felt I was being chocked and slowly having my life sucked from the inside out... (I was in banking... That has only to do with $$$$$)
Private life... Keep your personal life minimal ? --- Yes, Yes , Yes... I so so treasure my time alone to just clear my head.
Loner? - To a degree. I have an aversion to people who thrive on drama. I love having friends over but small crowds and one on one... Talk about "real" things. I LOVE to listen... Just listen what they have to say, watch the layers peel one by one and truly appreciate the essence of the soul in front of me...
Practically worship nature and all that it offers so generously. I grow my own vegetables and I have my flower garden and I always have pets... They are strays that show up at my door and I feed them and they never leave again... Cats and dogs and birds and squirrels... (This is over a long period of time.)
Flashback: When I was a little girl, up over my bedroom window there were always nests of birds, swallows to be exact. I was always around animals also. I would go in a field and horses and cows would just come to me and be touched. (I did live in the country.) I was so little and I never experienced fear with animals... No matter how much bigger they were than me.
At work, just outside my window, also, there was always nests of birds that would be made. Their names escape me now, "des grives" in French... Anyway...
It is so so comforting to have someone relate... Thank you both!!!
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| Empathy, Telepapthy etc...
Posted: 12/23/2007 8:43:41 AM | | Thats not weirdness Raveninns .. its normality. I'm very empathic but its about learning how to close it off. I dont like crowds too much and I did have one panic attack on a crowded motorway, which wasnt pleasant, but I dont normally. Takes me a lot of self control to sit on a plane without squirming in my seat and I put that down to other peoples fear bleeding into me. I wouldnt say I was a loner, I like people in general. But I love being in my 'apartment' when its 2 or 3 in the morning, no traffic noise, everyone in the area asleep, and its mentally quiet. Or out in the fields and woods. Like Raveninns said its a space with no outside influences, where you can think in peace. It may be that its a pheremone based influence more than a mental one, I dont know but I do need that quiet time. | |
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| Empathy, Telepapthy etc...
Posted: 12/23/2007 9:17:08 AM | I've always been a loner Raven...although most people who know me only casually would probably disagree with that statement,
as I am very bubbly and outgoing when out in public. I talk and laugh with everyone I meet...store clerks, gas attendants, people waiting in lines, people in elevators...no one is immune to my never ending chatter.....haha!! 
But once I close the door to my home, no one can reach me....I see no one, talk to no one and spend almost ALL of my time alone...it's just the way it is for me and it's the way it's always been. I need my time alone like I need food and water..without
it I simply lose it... and I need lots of it.
When my children were little, I would often stay up until 2 or 3 in the morning, just trying to catch up on my "alone time"...a habit that I carry to this day. I only get between 4 or 5 hours sleep a day because I need to stay up by myself to decompress from
my day spent with people. My favorite time to be up is late at night, when the world is asleep and you know that no one can get you...there's no phone calls, no knock at the door, no interruptions....ahhhh....I love it! I've been living on very little sleep for years and so far so good...and besides, sleeping to me is like a mini death....I might miss out on something...haha!!
My favorite place to be in the world is in the middle of nature with the bare minimum of modern facilities...my little camping trailer is located in an area which has no electricity, no running water and no phone access...it's pure heaven. And that's also where I'm the happiest.
I can so relate to your Walmart story ...everywhere I go, I meet people who are hurting or in pain. I can "feel" the cashier's frustrations...I empathize with her/his position...I often end up telling them of their rights to demand better working conditions,
such as a stool to sit on, having regular bathroom breaks...etc.
While shopping at Giant Tiger the other day, I started talking with a woman my age who was working the cash and who looked on the verge of tears.....it turns out her husband had suffered a stroke and when she ask for a day off, she was refused....but because her husband had been sick for the last couple of years, she had no choice but to continue working in such poor conditions. She is not well educated and is not trained to do anything else. She took good care of her family for years while her husband worked hard to provide for the family. I felt SO sorry for her...the way those workers are treated is inhumane in my opinion. So yeah, I ended up carrying her pain with me....and I still do. I also made sure I gave her all the information she needed for her to try and get a job at the hospital where I work (better pay and better work conditions.) Sigh...sigh...sigh...and she's just one of so many just like her...I see it everywhere I go.
Sorry for the long winded ramble...it's Sunday and I'm bored and I'm trying to postpone having to go out and do some last minute Christmas shopping....haha...dang I just HATE shopping!! 
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| Empathy, Telepapthy etc...
Posted: 12/23/2007 9:23:50 AM | Wow, this stuff really has me thinking about how much my life revolves around blocking feelings.
I am normally quite pleasant and thoughtful when I drive, but when I get into the city, I turn into crazy woman. Planes are a nightmare. I had a job where quite a bit of my time was spent travelling; it was awful. I am aware that I'm picking up on negativity.
I too have animals for life. They are real friends and I notice my cats are ever so attuned to my moods, and I theirs. Normally they're content fat furballs, but they get pissy with me if I feed them new stuff I want to try or when I won't share my dinner.
I love loud loud music. (Ironically, metal is my favourite) It helps a lot and despite claims of anger and messages of hate, etc, I find the opposite to be true.
Also, I think that my love of skiing ties in with this too. Everyone is just so friggin' happy to be there, and it is palapable to me.
And my favourite people to be around are small children. They are a delight and I look forward to the times when I can spend extended amounts of time with them.
Speaking of which, I'm off to pick some of the little munchkins up for the holiday season. Truly, joy to the world....
Cheers, Raven | |
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| Empathy, Telepapthy etc...
Posted: 12/23/2007 9:59:31 AM | I am more empathic than psychic.. though they can overlap. I have become mostly a loner as I can not always block out the energy and emotions of others.. crowds are painful. I can usually sense what another is feeling especially if those emotions are strong.. sometimes I will get a glimpse as to why they feel that way. Some people are so incredibly negative that being around them actually saps my energy.. like psychic vampirism I guess. I don't think they are aware of it.. they just NEED. I have also found people in extreme emotional distress are attracted to me. I have to be very careful who I allow into my life as a lot of the times these distressed souls are not ready to accept help and can cause a lot of chaos. (I must have some sort of astral neon sign over my head welcoming alcoholics and wounded people!)
I was in one of the helping professions for a while.. I loved it but after a while I found myself depleted and burnt out. As a healer sometimes I put my own needs after those of others. Not a healthy thing. Oh well, you live and learn I guess.
Like the others I have to work hard to protect myself from random emotional energy. I need quite a bit of solitude and I really don't know what I did before I learned meditation to protect myself.
It has good things also... it helps me to be compassionate and sensitive to others. I don't have to "understand" what they have experienced to understand how much pain they are in...
I am also sensitive to the energy of buildings. I can't live somewhere that has a lot of negative emotion attached to it. Even certain natural areas are "wrong" for me. I lived in one place that was very negative and draining and I couldn't figure out why I never felt comfortable there.. I found out a bit later it was the scene of many battles.. I could "sense" the bloodshed and horror of the place. I had to move. I also need to be by large bodies of water to be confortable.. a lake or preferably the ocean.
Interesting stuff | |
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Nergal
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Joined: 4/29/2007
Msg: 11 | |
| Empathy, Telepapthy etc...
Posted: 12/23/2007 10:11:51 AM | | Lakes are lovely and calming .. I dont tend to get much of a vibe when I'm in buildings .. But I am very closed to it these days. Some buildings do give me strange impressions though | |
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| Empathy, Telepapthy etc...
Posted: 12/23/2007 11:10:14 AM | I have had dealings with empaths in the past, most of which ended catastrophically (empath + bipolar = OMGWTF?!). As far as my understanding goes, empathy is sensing the emotional state of another person: which can be done by anyone who is sufficiently talented at reading people's gestures/body language/nonverbal cues/etc.
My main issue with empaths is when people think themselves somehow superior because of it: this has come up in every encounter I've had with empaths in the past: they believed it to be the result of being "highborn" (actual term used), while normal people were "lowborn".
People are people. Those with a gift of empathy are no better and no worse than others. It is not psychic, it is merely observing others without their being aware of just how many things they say without opening their mouths. Talented fortune-tellers do the same thing.
**The preceding was My Own Opinion (tm), and is the sole intellectual property of myself. | |
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| Empathy, Telepapthy etc...
Posted: 12/23/2007 11:15:07 AM | In my humble opinion "empaths" and "psychics" overlap for the purpose of natural healing.
Empaths almost always natural healers. If you think about it - why would someone have this blessing/curse if not to use it? You are not meant to suffer with it, if you can use it to help people it will bring you great joy.
If you choose not to use the gift to heal conciously, that's okay too! But you can learn to turn it off or turn it down for your own sanity and well being.
This seems to be true with most people in all areas of life - your flaws/pains/struggles/harships are your paths to your gifts and your gifts will bring you closer to your souls higher purpse which brings true happiness.
peace and love | |
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| Empathy, Telepapthy etc...
Posted: 12/23/2007 11:17:05 AM | I am sorry you have had this experience.
I definitely do not think being empathic makes me better than others. If anything sometimes it seems like a curse, it feels like having raw nerves a lot of the time. If it comes from an inborn ability, or extra sensory ability, or even a highly developed ability to read nonverbal cues.. doesn't really matter to me, though I do find it interesting to contemplate. The hypervigilance is tiring.
Sometimes I envy those who can walk through life seemingly unaffected.. seems a simpler way to live somehow.
Biipolars are a challenge for anyone. I have a friend who is bi-polar, she can be extremely chaotic and draining.
Peace | |
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| Empathy, Telepapthy etc...
Posted: 12/23/2007 11:31:23 AM | @trippy_hare
In no way do I think I am superior... I am not even sure I am an empath... I did not know this term existed since I discovered it in this forum.
You seem to know a lot about this subject and I would very much like for you to explain in more detail the "highborn" and "lowborn" terms.
I realize what you have said. A lot can be derived from the body language. To me, it is deeper... One thing I always have done since I can remember is look IN the eyes of people I talk to. I do not mean to be rude but I get so much more "non verbal" info that way.
I "sense" that to me it seems that many people walk around and live their lives with layers and layers of protection from emotions unseen. It is the best way I can explain it. I suppose it is needed. I do it myself and I am very aware of it. If anything, I have learned to shut down the gates of empathy and open them when the occasion arises.
It seems though that for some unknown reason it has always been much more natural to have the gates open... Anyway...
Like I said, I do not consider myself any better. If anything, I envy people that can go on life without feeling issues at deeper levels. To me, it seems, life must be less complicated.
I do not take well any kind of suffering, but once confronted, I am suprised at the "strenght" (spelling?) that seems to come out of me from a place I have no idea. It seems I cope well under severe emotional trauma... We all have our gifts...
Anyway.... Have a great holiday!!! | |
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| Empathy, Telepapthy etc...
Posted: 12/23/2007 11:54:39 AM | You understand your self first before you understand others or the empathy of others
Body language is also a gift of communication skill, women always have interesting language
its an art form in motion. You may hide in your thoughts but the body will give you away
comes from habits of conditions, when you become aware you notice.
You have come into a deeper knowing of self, the understanding of self, the shadow in the reflection of self. The empathy of others will not bother you as much, you have the deeper understanding to reflect from, your inner strength.
Your strength is your weakness, your weakness is your strength
universal paradigms are everywhere
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| Empathy, Telepapthy etc...
Posted: 12/23/2007 12:01:57 PM | I keep reading people saying things about body language. Some people are empathic without having seen "body language" they don't need to see the person or persons to have the pain or event effect them internally.
how do you explain this if "body language" is the way you explain things?
Being a truly emapthic person is not an outward experience, in my experience.
Also - trippy, I've never met people who talk about "highborn" or "lowborn" its intersting that you have. I would think they are are not very spiritual people if they think like that - sounds more like religion or ego. I've met confident people who seem a little - arrogant.
Sorry to hear you've had that experience. | |
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Nergal
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Joined: 4/29/2007
Msg: 18 | |
| Empathy, Telepapthy etc...
Posted: 12/23/2007 12:12:52 PM |
I keep reading people saying things about body language. Some people are empathic without having seen "body language" they don't need to see the person or persons to have the pain or event effect them internally.
It depends how you mean 'they dont need to see the person' How in that case do they know. If its just hearing from a third party then it could be a psychosomatic reaction due to being unduly emotionally sensitive. Never forget that the mind controls the body and vice versa. Body language is a combination of pheremone secretions, little gestures and movements that we only register subliminally and vocal tone as well as the spoken word. Its all about information going in and achieving a composite result. It may be that there is an element of energy resonation but its not provable.
I experience it and I can heal as well but I still question it. | |
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| Empathy, Telepapthy etc...
Posted: 12/23/2007 12:36:44 PM | Negral
In a specific case, if I woke up having a bad dream about my sister, only to find that at that moment she were in a horrible car wreck. Or a twin having a twin postive or negative experience, you hear of these stories all the time. I used to wake up with horrible insomina when mass human suffering was happening (yeah so that was pretty frequently) it took a while before I figured out the connection (about 30 years) but then once I did I figured out how to shut it off.
Of course its always worth questioning, I could only guess how it works but honestly I can't say with any certaintly. | |
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| Empathy, Telepapthy etc...
Posted: 12/23/2007 12:50:40 PM | @Raveninns - it never ceases to amaze me how much we agree when I read your posts.... now I know why! I also HATE shopping, crowds, etc.... and NEED alone time like I need air and water.
@trippy hare.... sorry to hear you have had that experience... I couldn't agree with this statement of yours more - "People are people. Those with a gift of empathy are no better and no worse than others. " - if they pick up on the feelings of those around them to any depth, they would not be so derogatory and put others down, or they would also pick up on the negative feelings resulting from their putdowns..... I highly doubt that those who said these things were empaths to any great depth. | |
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Nergal
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Joined: 4/29/2007
Msg: 21 | |
| Empathy, Telepapthy etc...
Posted: 12/23/2007 1:44:33 PM | | Anomaly ... All I was saying was, is that the only time you had a bad dream about your sister? Its natural to worry about family and friends. Did you hear about the mass suffering while you were out and about? It could be just emotional sensitivity. I question things constantly because its the only way to determine if a real event has occured. Discount the false positives and if something real occurred, work out how, and then if it can be repeated its a step closer to truth. I came across too many people in Glastonbury that were emotionally sensitive and lived with the woes of the world on their shoulders. Every twinge, dropped coffee and meaningless coincidence were treated as though they were signs from above or something. questioning and evaluating is the best way of keeping yourself grounded. | |
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| Empathy, Telepapthy etc...
Posted: 12/23/2007 6:15:09 PM |
You seem to know a lot about this subject and I would very much like for you to explain in more detail the "highborn" and "lowborn" terms.
Sorry, can't do it. Such terms were the creations of a fevered, egotistical mind, set on proving itself superior to other people. The person who used these definitions was little more than a spoiled, manipulative brat: seeking to create conflict and drama in an otherwise privileged and easy life.
I realize what you have said. A lot can be derived from the body language. To me, it is deeper... One thing I always have done since I can remember is look IN the eyes of people I talk to. I do not mean to be rude but I get so much more "non verbal" info that way.
Eye contact- intensity of one's gaze, length of time between blinking, there is a great deal that can be learned from carefully observing one's eyes. Also, eye contact can force- or encourage- a person to be more genuine: it is harder to lie to someone when you look them in the eye.
I "sense" that to me it seems that many people walk around and live their lives with layers and layers of protection from emotions unseen. It is the best way I can explain it.
Quite correct: humans lie constantly, as a defensive mechanism. Only a fool seeks their own destruction: and leaving oneself open and vulnerable to all equates to little more than inviting them to take advantage of you.
I suppose it is needed. I do it myself and I am very aware of it. If anything, I have learned to shut down the gates of empathy and open them when the occasion arises.
Perhaps so, you would know better than I. In my experience, such a level of control is something few people ever achieve.
It seems though that for some unknown reason it has always been much more natural to have the gates open... Anyway...
Humans are social animals: we cannot survive as individuals, we need cliques, groups, cadres, and societies. Perhaps it seems more natural to keep them open, because being sociable is a more natural state? I dunno.
Like I said, I do not consider myself any better. If anything, I envy people that can go on life without feeling issues at deeper levels. To me, it seems, life must be less complicated.
Doubtless it is: but it would also be less involved. Not everyone can be an artist, and not every artist can be a Rembrandt. Complication forces adaptation: there is no need to grow, adapt, and change if everything is static.
I do not take well any kind of suffering, but once confronted, I am surprised at the "strength" (spelling?) that seems to come out of me from a place I have no idea. It seems I cope well under severe emotional trauma... We all have our gifts...Anyway.... Have a great holiday!!!
You too. :) | |
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| Empathy, Telepapthy etc...
Posted: 12/23/2007 6:54:16 PM | I have heard the term empath thrown out lately by a couple of women. What does that mean?
What is the difference between that and being psychic?
The empath experiences the emotions of those near him. The psychic can be aware of the emotions of those around him, and can also be aware of thoughts, feelings and impressions of things that happened in a different place, or time. But the psychic is still aware that it is NOT happening to him. The empath feels as if he feels that way for himself. But both empath and psychic do not have any rationalisation for why they experience these things, nor is there any warning when such experiences will begin, or when they will cease. However, generally, for an empath, a combination of intensity of emotion and nearness to the person will be a good indicator or when the emotion will start and when it will cease.
An example of a limited level of an empath is sometimes found between a husband and his wife, such as when a man feels pregnancy pains, cravings for strange food, and morning nausea while his wife has been pregant and even labour pains when his wife was in labour, even when he was in another room and unable to even see or hear what his wife was going through. It does happen, although it should not be possible according to Western Science.
I am both an empath and an expath, in that I feel the emotions of those near me, and those near me will feel the emotions that I feel for myself.
Think of an empath as being an emotional receiver, like a radio.
Think of an expath as being an emotional transmitter, like a radio broadcasting station. | |
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| Empathy, Telepapthy etc...
Posted: 12/23/2007 7:12:43 PM | No nergal, I do not know of the events that are happening first - I feel them, sense them, dream them, or am "told" of them and then I start investigating. I don't think you could hook up cameras to me and prove it with scientific methods because it isn't always so. It happens sometimes, it doesn't always. I have also figured out how to "shut it off" which helps me a lot, I sleep a lot more these days. I have a feeling it has to do more with "disturbances in the force" - lol! That is to say that I am sensitve to flux in energy changes but its a hard thing to prove, I don't profess to completely understand it.
peace | |
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| Empathy, Telepapthy etc...
Posted: 12/24/2007 8:40:06 AM | OP, imagine you saw a guy get kicked square in the jimmy. When you unconciously close your legs and are thinking "ouch, that had to hurt", that's empathy at it's crudest most basic level. People who have refined the skill can also tell emotions much more subtle then brutal physical pain. It's not really a "psychic" thing at all, more of an awareness, psychicness is knowing stuff that you have no observable way of knowing. It's possible for the two to overlap, the post quoted below is an example of overlaping empathy and psychicness. I hope this explains it for you.
In a specific case, if I woke up having a bad dream about my sister, only to find that at that moment she were in a horrible car wreck. Or a twin having a twin postive or negative experience, you hear of these stories all the time. I used to wake up with horrible insomina when mass human suffering was happening (yeah so that was pretty frequently) it took a while before I figured out the connection (about 30 years) but then once I did I figured out how to shut it off. | |
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