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| A thread about Abraham Lincoln.... Posted: 12/25/2007 2:53:11 PM | One of the most fascinating characters in American political history, in my opinion, was Abraham Lincoln. He frequently tops the list as the best American president in opinion polls, and lead the nation through one of it's darkest and toughest times.
His life is an interesting one , and also complex one.
Here's a man that so often spoke of God in his greatest pieces of oratory, yet never was a member of any church. One the other hand his knowledge of the Bible, from studying it, was perhaps better than many pastors .
His family life as a child was rather tragic,
Lincoln had little family of his own. His mother died when he was 9. He took considerable trouble to visit his affectionate stepmother but he was never close to his father, who had never seen any sense in young Abe's taste for book learning. A sister died young.
He didn't like killing animals, so he never hunted or fished.
He worked at a small local store, village postmaster, surveyor, and served in the Illinois militia.
His formal schooling was a grand total of a year and a half. He was pretty much a self-educated man. He once walked twenty miles to borrow a single book. He taught himself law, and was admitted to the bar at twenty eight years old.
His wife, Mary Todd Lincoln, was the daughter of a slave owning family, and her brothers fought for the Confederate army.
Mrs. Lincoln's favorite sister married an officer who rose to be a Confederate general, after refusing Lincoln's offer of a post in the Union army. When he was killed at the Battle of Chickamauga, 27-year-old Emilie called her sister and was taken into the White House with her three young children.
A Union general complained about the situation, after a visit that saw a sharp exchange between Emilie and a senator who had come with him. Lincoln, the man who brought humor into American politics, first tried to make a joke of it. The general, who had lost a leg at Gettysburg, got mad.
Lincoln's little son Tad and Emilie's daughter Katie had a disagreement over who was president ---- Lincoln or Jefferson Davis, the head of the Confederacy. Lincoln, amused, settled it with one child sitting on either knee.
Three of his four children died before their teens.
His other child, Robert Todd Lincoln , was saved from a similar fate in his early twenties by....the brother of John Wilkes Booth, Edwin.
The incident occurred while a group of passengers were late at night purchasing their sleeping car places from the conductor who stood on the station platform at the entrance of the car. The platform was about the height of the car floor, and there was of course a narrow space between the platform and the car body. There was some crowding, and I happened to be pressed by it against the car body while waiting my turn. In this situation the train began to move, and by the motion I was twisted off my feet, and had dropped somewhat, with feet downward, into the open space, and was personally helpless, when my coat collar was vigorously seized and I was quickly pulled up and out to a secure footing on the platform. Upon turning to thank my rescuer I saw it was Edwin Booth, whose face was of course well known to me, and I expressed my gratitude to him, and in doing so, called him by name.
That same son was present, or nearby, when three US presidents were assassinated.
Presence at assassinations
There is coincidence in regard to Lincoln and presidential assassinations. He was either present or was nearby when three of them occurred.
* Lincoln was invited to accompany his parents to the Ford's Theatre the night his father was shot by John Wilkes Booth on April 14, 1865, but declined and remained behind at the White House. He was informed of the President's being shot just before midnight.
* At President James A. Garfield's invitation, Lincoln was at the Sixth Street Train Station in Washington, D.C. where the President was shot by Charles J. Guiteau on July 2, 1881 and was an eyewitness to the event. Lincoln was serving as Garfield's Secretary of War at the time.
* At President William McKinley's invitation, Lincoln was at the Pan-American Exposition in Buffalo, New York where the President was shot by Leon F. Czolgosz on September 6, 1901, though he was not an eyewitness to the event.
Of course, any other person with similarly close access to presidents and with such active involvement in the Federal government during that period of 36½ years would have had a similar likelihood of being "at or near" these assassinations. However, it is interesting that each time, his presence had been requested by the President in question.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Todd_Lincoln
He may have suffered from bi-polar disorder.
According to Jacobi, when well-known photographers such as Brady or Gardner took images of Lincoln, he had to hold his pose for 30 seconds or longer because a smile or a laugh would often ruin the plate.
His closet and dearest friends spoke of his jovial demeanor and the merry expression that was often the embodiment of his face. His mirthful and animated expression often evolved into profound and enthusiastic belly laughter. Furthermore, his storytelling was underscored with his own laughter, and he was known to often double up before he could get to the punch line of the story.
His periods of deep depression are also well evidenced.
"No element of his personality was so marked, obvious and ingrained as his mysterious melancholy." This was stated by a close friend, Henry C. Whitney. He also stated that such episodes were not uncommon.Whitney recalled a story revealed to him by Lincoln's former law partner, John T. Stuart. Stuart stated that Lincoln was a hopeless victim of melancholy, and would sometimes sit in the courtroom, alone in a corner, and far from anyone else. He was often described as being engulfed in gloom.
Lincoln also had been described as rising early, on a daily basis, and sitting in front of the fire. There, he would muse, ponder, and recite lugubrious verses. This ritual would be done with the saddest of expressions. He also had been observed lost in thought well past the bedtime of others, and would sit by himself for hours. He was the ultimate picture of dejection and gloom.
Although born to anti-slavery parents , he wasn't a particularly strong anti-slave campaigner. He opposed both the slavery trade, and the abolitionists.
President Abraham Lincoln, in his political life, was not the Great Emancipator that we have been led to believe. On March 04, 1861, in an attempt to reunite the states and prevent a war, Lincoln voiced his support for the pending Corwin Amendment to the Constitution. This Amendment would protect slavery in those states in which it already existed.
The Emancipation Proclamation was Lincoln's executive order issued in September 22, 1862. It declared the freedom of slaves in only the Confederate states not under his control. He specifically refused to free slaves in Union states or in states that were already under Union control. It did not, however, make the elimination of slavery permanent. Slavery continued until it was finally wiped out by the Thirteenth Amendment to the Constitution on December 18, 1865.
In a letter to a newspaper on August 22, 1862, Lincoln wrote, "If I could save the Union without freeing any slaves, I would do it..."
In a 1858 debate, he said, "...I am not in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races...nor to intermarry with white people...that there is a physical difference between the white and black races...while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and as much as any other man, I am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."
While he was president, slaves worked at the White House.
On the night of his second inauguration, orders were given not to admit blacks.
Elizabeth Keckley described Mrs. Lincoln's reaction to his visit to the levee following President Lincoln's Second Inauguration:
Many colored people in Washington, and large numbers had desired to attend the levee, but orders were issued not to admit them. A gentleman, a member of Congress, on his way to the White House, recognized Mr. Frederick Douglas, the eloquent colored orator, on the outskirts of the crowd.
'How do you do, Mr. Douglas? A fearful jam to-night. You are going in, of course?'
'No -- that is, no to your last question.'
'Not going in to shake the President by the hand! Why, pray?'
'The best reason in the world. Strict orders have been issued not to admit people of color.'
Given his legacy, that 's a rather interesting thing to consider.
That member of Congress DID escort Douglas in, and Lincoln was glad to see him. When he was assassinated, Mary Todd sent Lincoln's favorite walking cane to Douglas.
'I know of no one that would appreciate this more than Fred. Douglass.'
In the closing days of the Civil War, he visited the wife of an old friend, alone .
That friend ? Confederate General George Pickett, of Pickett's Charge infamy....
The general's wife, with her baby on her arm, met him at the door. She herself has told the story for us.
"Is this George Pickett's home?" he asked.
"With all the courage and dignity I could muster, I replied, "Yes, and I am his wife, and this is his baby."
"I am Abraham Lincoln"
"The President!" I gasped. I had never seen him, but I knew the intense love and reverence with which my soldier always spoke of him.
"The stranger shook his head and replied, "No - Abraham Lincoln, George's old friend."
"The baby pushed away from me and reached out his hands to Mr. Lincoln, who took him in his arms. As he did so an expression of rapt, almost divine tenderness and love lighted up the sad face. It was a look that I have never seen on any other face. The baby opened his mouth wide and insisted upon giving his father's friend a dewy kiss.
"As Mr. Lincoln gave the little one back to me he said, "Tell your father, the rascal, that I forgive him for the sake of your bright eyes."
In today's world, the story is wonderfully different, isn't it ?
Another wonderful story about Lincoln was the one on the Gettysburg Address, perhaps one of the best pieces of American political rhetoric ever produced.
One of the speakers before him, Edward Everett, spoke for two hours and gave a 13,607-word oration , which almost no one knows of.
Lincoln got up, spoke 10 sentences and 272 words in roughly less than two minutes, and then sat down again so quickly that the photographer there didn't even have time to take a picture of him giving it.
Lincoln actually said , right after that speech, ""It is a flat failure and the people are disappointed."
He was the most photographed man in the US, and there were over 200 pictures taken of him.
Days before his assassination, he told his bodyguard about a dream he had just had.He had the same dream three nights in a row.
"About ten days ago, I retired very late. I had been up waiting for important dispatches from the front. I could not have been long in bed when I fell into a slumber, for I was weary. I soon began to dream. There seemed to be a death-like stillness about me. Then I heard subdued sobs, as if a number of people were weeping. I thought I left my bed and wandered downstairs. There the silence was broken by the same pitiful sobbing, but the mourners were invisible. I went from room to room; no living person was in sight, but the same mournful sounds of distress met me as I passed along. I saw light in all the rooms; every object was familiar to me; but where were all the people who were grieving as if their hearts would break? I was puzzled and alarmed. What could be the meaning of all this? Determined to find the cause of a state of things so mysterious and so shocking, I kept on until I arrived at the East Room, which I entered. There I met with a sickening surprise. Before me was a catafalque, on which rested a corpse wrapped in funeral vestments. Around it were stationed soldiers who were acting as guards; and there was a throng of people, gazing mournfully upon the corpse, whose face was covered, others weeping pitifully. 'Who is dead in the White House?' I demanded of one of the soldiers, 'The President,' was his answer; 'he was killed by an assassin.' Then came a loud burst of grief from the crowd, which woke me from my dream. I slept no more that night; and although it was only a dream, I have been strangely annoyed by it ever since."
He told his bodyguard W. H. Crook, about it the dreams the day he was going to Ford's Theater , and the guard begged him not to go. Lincoln said he was anyway, because he'd promised his wife he would.
As he left the White House that night, he passed Cook, and instead of saying good night, as he always did , he said goodbye instead.
At the point of victory and relief at the end of the war, just six days after the surrender at Appomattox, he was murdered.
Even after his death there were repeated attempts to steal his body and hold it for ransom, until his son had it re-exhumed and buried under several feet of concrete.
A pretty amazing life to have lived, isn't it ? | |
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| A thread about Abraham Lincoln.... Posted: 12/25/2007 2:59:21 PM | Lincoln was probably the worst U.S. president, although Wilson comes close, for introducing military imperialism abroad, and FDR might be the worst because be brought into existence socialism in America and as well took part in interventions overseas.
Lincoln threw newspaper editors in jail for disagreeing with him. He violated the constitutional right of the southern state's to secede, and killed some 600,000 Americans while doing so. Contrary to popular belief, the war of Southern Secession (sometimes called the Civil War) had little to do with slavery, and everything to do with forcing the south into obedience. | |
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| A thread about Abraham Lincoln.... Posted: 12/25/2007 4:48:22 PM | | Indeed what sparked the secession of the southern states was the tariffs that Lincoln fought for even though he knew it would damage the southern economy and had been warned that they could cause the south to secede. | |
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| A thread about Abraham Lincoln.... Posted: 12/25/2007 6:54:30 PM | If Abraham Lincoln saw what his Republican Party has become he'd be rolling over in his grave in disgust!
Also FDR was one of the greatest, not worst, presidents because he injected some socialism to SAVE capitalism in our country. | |
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| A thread about Abraham Lincoln.... Posted: 12/26/2007 7:49:18 AM | He would not make a viable candidate in the 21st century.
Personally, I really didn't like Lincoln because of the Morill Act. It was a 47.5% tax on imported farm equipment. this benefited big northern business and screwed farmers in the south. Essentially, this ticked off the south.
He also jailed the US Marine commander, which I do not agree with either. It was over a disagreement and about waisting troops in needless battles. | |
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| A thread about Abraham Lincoln.... Posted: 12/26/2007 9:04:04 AM |
One of the most fascinating characters in American political history, in my opinion, was Abraham Lincoln. He frequently tops the list as the best American president in opinion polls, and lead the nation through one of it's darkest and toughest times.
His other child, Robert Todd Lincoln , was saved from a similar fate in his early twenties by....the brother of John Wilkes Booth, Edwin.
Are there any descendants of Ab Lincoln in modern day America? Wonder if there was and if he/she ran for pres, what the outcome would be? | |
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| A thread about Abraham Lincoln.... Posted: 12/26/2007 11:12:46 AM |
Are there any descendants of Ab Lincoln in modern day America?
The answer seems to be no.
Lincoln has no direct descendants alive. Robert Todd Lincoln had three children, but none of his grandchildren had children. The last direct Lincoln relative died in 1985.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/ discussion/2007/11/25/DI2007112501232.html
Oh well...
On the other hand, it seems his spirit still lives on...
Lincoln's ghost seems to have been most active during the administration of Franklin Roosevelt, perhaps because they were both in power at times of great war for the United States. During their 13-year occupancy of the White House, the Roosevelts used the former Lincoln bedroom as a study for Eleanor, the first lady. Although she never claimed to have seen Lincoln's spirit, Eleanor spoke of the sense of someone watching her as she worked in the room. She believed Lincoln was there with her.
A young clerk in the Roosevelt White House claimed to have actually seen the ghost of Lincoln sitting on a bed and pulling off his boots.
While spending a night at the White House during the Roosevelt presidency, Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands was awakened by a knock on the bedroom door. Answering it, she was confronted with the ghost of Abe Lincoln staring at her from the hallway.
Ever the gentleman, it seems, Lincoln knocked often. Presidents Theodore Roosevelt, Herbert Hoover and Harry Truman all reported hearing unexplained rappings on their bedroom doors. What made them think it was Lincoln is unknown.
It's well known how Lincoln anguished over the horrors of the Civil War. His spirit may have continued worrying long after his death. Calvin Coolidge's wife reported seeing on several occasions the ghost of Lincoln standing with his hands clasped behind his back, at a window in the Oval Office, staring out in deep contemplation toward the bloody battlefields across the Pototmac.
During one of Winston Churchill's visits to the United States during WW2, he spent the night in the White House. Churchill loved to retire late, take a long, hot bath while drinking a Scotch, and smoke a cigar and relax. On this occasion, he climbed out of the bath and naked, but for his cigar, walked into the adjoining bedroom. He was startled to see Abraham Lincoln standing by the fireplace in the room, leaning on the mantle. Churchill, always quick on the uptake, blinked and said "Good evening, Mr. President. You seem to have me at a disadvantage." Lincoln smiled softly and disappeared.
Lincoln's ghost was not confined to the White House however. His spirit is said to have been seen walking near his gravesite in Springfield, Ill. Some also claim to have seen his ghostly funeral train many years after it carried his body back to Springfield. There are two trains, according to some witnesses, seen on the anniversary of that journey. The first train pulls a line of black-draped cars, and the second pulls just one flatbed car on which is the slain president's casket.
http://paranormal.about.com/library/weekly/aa022100a.htm
Well, you have to admit he's a very polite ghost, who knocks first.
You also have to give Churchill some credit for the ultimate quick comeback under strange dircumstances...
Another interesting story about Lincoln :
Election day in the city dawned with rousing blasts from a cannon, with music and contagious excitement. Lincoln spent the day and evening with friends at a telegraph office. By midnight, it was clear that he had been elected President of the United States. A late night dinner was held in his honor and then he returned to the office for more news. Guns fired in celebration throughout the night.
Lincoln finally managed to return home in the early morning hours although news of victory and telegrams of congratulations were still being wired to his office. He went into his bedroom for some much needed rest and collapsed onto a settee. Near the couch was a large bureau with a mirror on it and Lincoln stared for a moment at his reflection in the glass. He then experienced what many would term a "vision"... an odd vision that Lincoln would later believe had prophetic meaning.
He saw that in the mirror, his face appeared to have two separate, yet distinct, images. The tip of one nose was about three inches away from the other one. The vision vanished but appeared again a few moments later. It was clearer this time and Lincoln realized that one of the faces was actually much paler than the other, almost with the coloring of death. The vision disappeared again and Lincoln dismissed the whole thing to the excitement of the hour and his lack of sleep.
Later on that evening, he told Mary of the strange vision and attempted to conjure it up again in the days that followed. The faces always returned to him and while Mary never saw it, she believed her husband when he said he did. She also believed she knew the significance of the vision. The healthy face was her husband�s "real" face and indicated that he would serve his first term as president. The pale, ghostly image of the second face however was a sign that he would be elected to a second term.... but would not live to see its conclusion.
http://www.prairieghosts.com/lincoln2.html
Witnesses have seen Lincoln on the balcony of Ford's Theatre with the ghost of the man who shot him, John Wilkes Booth. It have been said that they are trying to solve their differences.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln's_Ghost
Across the street from Fords Theater is the Parker House where Mr. Lincoln was taken after being critically wounded. When he died there the next day his body was taken back to the White House and autopsied. His lonely apparition still makes an occasional appearance at the Parker House however.
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/ghosts_and_haunted_spots/28309/2
So, his spirit may be with us....in more ways than one.
If you do see him, say hello from me.  | |
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| A thread about Abraham Lincoln.... Posted: 12/26/2007 11:43:18 AM | I heard that Bush Jr. once said the Jury was still out on Washington.
Bill Mahr had a great line; "No it's not, he's on the One!"
The same is true of Lincoln. He's on the Five!
Lincoln saved America. He was a dynamic leader. | |
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| A thread about Abraham Lincoln.... Posted: 12/26/2007 11:47:57 AM | "Also FDR was one of the greatest, not worst, presidents because he injected some socialism to SAVE capitalism in our country."
Actually FDR's reforms caused the Great Depression to continue much longer than it otherwise would have (and much longer than previous recessions had gone on for). | |
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| A thread about Abraham Lincoln.... Posted: 12/26/2007 12:02:02 PM | FDR's policies kept America's economy rolling along from 1941 to 1981, 40 years of unparraleled economic growth. America went on to have the greatest economy in the world because of his policies. One of the Most Liberal states in the US, California, would, all by itself, have the 16th largest economy in the world.
But, liberal policies don't work????
Why is it all the Republican States are the ones that struggle economically?
Why is it the Liberal States always seem to do better? | |
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| A thread about Abraham Lincoln.... Posted: 12/26/2007 12:10:32 PM | | I find it interesting that in the summer of 1864, Abe's approval ratings were so low that he would have been envious of George Bush's ratings at his lowest. | |
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| A thread about Abraham Lincoln.... Posted: 12/26/2007 12:14:37 PM |
One of the Most Liberal states in the US, California, would, all by itself, have the 16th largest economy in the world.
Curious to know how you judge a state liberal or conservative. | |
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| A thread about Abraham Lincoln.... Posted: 12/26/2007 12:18:17 PM | | Well, since they almost always elect Democrats, and since they are very progressive regarding social programs and education policy, and since they have even put in place some of the strictest requirements on fuel emissions. I'd say their voting record speaks for itself. Yet, California has the 16th largest economy in the world. I say that speaks volumes for Liberal economic and social policies! | |
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| A thread about Abraham Lincoln.... Posted: 12/26/2007 12:36:47 PM | Reagan actaully was a democrat at one time, he was the president of the SAG.
He changed later on, but historically, they have elected liberal leaders. Arnold is a closet Democrat as well! | |
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| A thread about Abraham Lincoln.... Posted: 12/26/2007 12:37:59 PM | "FDR's policies kept America's economy rolling along from 1941 to 1981, 40 years of unparraleled economic growth. "
Now I know you don't have one and you're just making it up, but dare I ask you -
Source? I think the economy grew at much higher rates in the 90's, so I'm not sure why you stopped at '81, and I think that prior to the 1900's it grew at least as quickly if not faster. | |
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| A thread about Abraham Lincoln.... Posted: 12/26/2007 12:40:35 PM | What part of Almost. . . .
Overall, they vote D, they have very liberal economic policies, they have the highest level of college subsidation in the world. | |
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| A thread about Abraham Lincoln.... Posted: 12/26/2007 12:40:41 PM | | Not to mention that democrat governator. And progressive liberal fuel emissions policies? I still laugh at the early nineties legislation that required that ten percent of all vehicles sold in California had to be electrically powered. After these "green" vehicles sat on the showroom floors for a few years with no takers the state legislature had to repeal their own brilliance. Seems they couldn't figure out which ten percent of the car buying public to arrrest for not buying those electric cars. Oh yeah. More governemnt. Now that is progressive. | |
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| A thread about Abraham Lincoln.... Posted: 12/26/2007 12:53:05 PM | | Meistro, we have already established that you don't know anything about economics. Please try to graduate from High School, before you pretend to know anything about economics. The average GDP growth rate in the 1980s was 1%, the average growth rate for the prior 40 years was ~ 3%. The 90s, under Clinton boomed. The only lean years were under Reagan. Bush Sr. did a pretty good job overall as well. | |
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| A thread about Abraham Lincoln.... Posted: 12/26/2007 1:27:19 PM | | lol, one of the reasons why Sr. got tossed (aside from Ross Perot obv.) was because he was presiding over a depression - but it's all so ridiculous because the president has basically no effect over the economy, congress and the fed play a much bigger role. It is interesting to note you respond to my request to back up your naked assertions with data with personal attacks - if you are going to make statistical claims you should have a source to back them up - but of course since you just make things up out of thin air it is a little unreasonable to ask you for a source I suppose. The U.S. economy has grown at around 2.5% throughout it's history, this has remained basically unchanged although there are obviously us and downs to that. | |
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| A thread about Abraham Lincoln.... Posted: 12/26/2007 1:31:53 PM |
Meistro, we have already established that you don't know anything about economics. Please try to graduate from High School, before you pretend to know anything about economics. The average GDP growth rate in the 1980s was 1%, the average growth rate for the prior 40 years was ~ 3%. The 90s, under Clinton boomed. The only lean years were under Reagan. Bush Sr. did a pretty good job overall as well.
Graduate high school? Don't suppose debating an issue without personal attacks is an option. I wonder though, can you actually tie economic growth rates, GDP or otherwise, with presidential reigns? For instance, when you say, "the 90s, under Clinton boomed", are you suggesting that when he was elected the economy took off just because of that. Did the years leading up to the nineties have anything to do with that "boom"? Or the decades before for that matter. I graduated high school. Set me straight on economic growth vs. presidential terms. Not just dates and rates. How does that all work. You know, tie it together for me from an economics standpoint. I thought I had my ducks in a row pretty well when it comes to the understanding of economics. But apparantly there is something I'm missing. Because I've heard people before go on about presidents and the economy but nobody has yet been able to explain the link to me. How bout you? Set me straight here. Just the issue now. Remember, I graduated high school. | |
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| A thread about Abraham Lincoln.... Posted: 12/26/2007 1:43:59 PM | It wasn't a personal attack, it was stating a fact. His ad hominen attacks are pretty well known, by most of the long time posters.
Presidents determine Economic policy in the US. The budget is created by the OMB, then Congress tinkers with it. Overall, the budget is rarely changed by more than 3%, usually an upward shift as spending is far more often added, than subtracted from the budget.
Policy does lag over. Bush Sr. does get crdit for part of the great economy the Clinton presided over. In fact, it was Bush Sr. who coined the Phrose "Voo Doo Economics!" A Budget is always done a year in advance, so the policy tends to lage for awhile.
However, public sentiment is every bit as important as presidential policy. If the public holds on to their money, the economy will slow down. If the public is optomistic, then they will spend more.
It is never about any one person, not even the president. However, since the president, by far, is the most visible element, it often falls on public faith in the stewardship of that person, regardless of party. Does that help at all? | |
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