| why is this topic called religion
Posted: 1/2/2008 11:43:02 AM | why is this topic called religion .... when in every thread it becomes an attack on religion ...or peoples beliefs ...now i to enjoy a debate on religious aspects ... but i went down the list and almost no thread survives being attacked for more than a few post ... i became evident of this while reading a thread asking for stories on miracles in peoples lives ... well it wasent more than seven post till the attackers started taking apart the stories and trying to say they were not miracles ... well I say they were to the people that experienced them and that is all the OP asked for...analyzing the miracles or perceived miracles is off topic ... then i started looking for a topic on religion that didnt become an attack on that religion ...could not find one ... why not rename this topic attacks on religion ????
now i have no problem debating the good and bad of religion when that is on topic but people of religion cant even discuss aspects of their topics | |
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| why is this topic called religion
Posted: 1/2/2008 1:52:41 PM | "i hear ya dog," 
but in all fairness, "religionists"~"Christians" have been guilty of said crimes, too! It happens, lol. | |
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| why is this topic called religion
Posted: 1/2/2008 1:56:20 PM | yes they have but my post only had to do with threads on here that are not debating the merits of religion just the topics of religion
i have no problem discussing with the none religious the benefits of religion and whether there is a God or not ...its the attacking of the threads that just want to discuss a particular aspect of religion
its like if the OP asked what is your favorite religious song ... there is no place in that thread for an atheist to say it is my opinion there is no god or in the thread i quoted in my Op asking for miracles there is no reason for non believers to debate religion or analyze other posters religion
now if i asked if you believe in God that thread is open for all beliefs to state their beliefs
see my point and why i feel there is an ongoing agenda to put down any aspect of religion in these post....and i tend to be more agnostic ...but i can see attacks even when its done by people i agree with
now if an atheist posted a thread saying give me reasons to disbelieve there is a god theist would have no reason attacking the atheist except to say i cant comment because i do not share your view | |
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| why is this topic called religion
Posted: 1/2/2008 3:51:44 PM | It's a public forum. Which pretty much means, that anyone within "the public" can comment on a topic.
If one asks in a public forum about "miracles" then people who do not believe in them, may also respond.
On the other hand, if religious people only want to hear re-ienforcement of their beliefs, which is most often the case, there are many forums available on the internet, which will not tolerate any "outsiders" making statements which does not re-enforce said religion. | |
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| why is this topic called religion
Posted: 1/2/2008 4:44:50 PM |
On the other hand, if religious people only want to hear re-ienforcement of their beliefs, which is most often the case, there are many forums available on the internet, which will not tolerate any "outsiders" making statements which does not re-enforce said religion.
Hey, Geneseo, was up? Long time, no see, doll.
~Anywho, I just wanted to pitch in my 2 pennies and say that I personally, appreciate the voice of those who do not believe as I, those who call me on my ignorance of certain aspects of my own belief, highlighting areas of weakness...they are my most cherished friends, being a priceless refining fire...  | |
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| why is this topic called religion
Posted: 1/2/2008 5:51:53 PM | Many people want to have someone to criticise and attack. Such people pick on the religion and religious people to argue with, because that is the greatest form of pleasure they can muster.
I always remember that I was taught that: "anyone who says that someone has a problem, has that problem themselves."
I think that's why people who never cheat, are often the last to know. They don't have it in them, so they cannot see it in anyone else. | |
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| why is this topic called religion
Posted: 1/2/2008 5:55:44 PM |
But that would leave many people with no-one to hate
Oh I wouldn't worry about that. Religous people always find someone to hate, even though they love everyone. | |
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| why is this topic called religion
Posted: 1/2/2008 6:07:04 PM |
Oh I wouldn't worry about that. Religous people always find someone to hate, even though they love everyone Darlin, your blindingly obvious bitter regard for the religious exposes a tender wound that I cannot help but attempt to tend....forgive me, doll. Not all religious folks are such hypocrites. Gimme a chance to prove so and I'll prove so, K? | |
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| why is this topic called religion
Posted: 1/2/2008 9:30:17 PM | Sure. Rename the "topic" anything you want. "Attacks on religion" works for me. Then when I'm finnished excercising my right to express my views and opinions on this forum, whatever you wish to name it, I will proceed to look for a forum entitled "religion" and go over there to exercise my right to discuss, and attack if I so choose, the positions of posters whom I may think are in error or as in many cases here on the forums, delusional.
This is a public forum. If someone chooses to post their opinion, belief or what they may think is the truth or fact on a public forum, they are presenting their position for the scrutiny and critique of the public. All of us here are the public. Who do you think you are to lay down guidlines for we the public? The guidlines exist here already and to my knowledge nobody in authority asked you how to name forums. If people want to discuss only their beliefs of the aspects of their religion then there are venues such as churches, mosques and other houses of religious worship to do that without outside public scrutiny. I would never violate the sanctity of such private institutions. But I have a great many bones to pick with religions of all sects for all of the dastardly deeds committed in the name of some god throughout history. I also choose to challenge what I see as an elitist attitude of such religious faithful that profess that I shall believe precisely as they do or suffer an afterlife burning in hell for eternity. I will attack such positions just as I will attack such institutions as the KKK which are responsible for far fewer atrocities against humanity than any of the major religions.
So if you are happy with these cults and their historical behavior great; tell us all how fabulous you consider these ancient and present barbarous cretons that claim that their severe crimes against humanity are "gods will" to excuse and even justify their awful perpetuations. But I opine differently and I have just as much right as anybody here to voice my opinion on any open public forum no matter it's name. | |
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| why is this topic called religion
Posted: 1/2/2008 10:03:17 PM | what I would consider a simple discussion from two different viewpoints is sometimes viewed by the other person as an attack on their religion. A matter of perspective I suppose.
I think that most of the ones who feel attacked are generally intolerant of others who don't believe as they do, are too insecure in their beliefs to have an open discussion about them, or deluded into thinking that it is a religious site devoted to their faith alone and anyone who isn't part of the mutual admiration society is a bone rattling satan worshipper. | |
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| why is this topic called religion
Posted: 1/2/2008 11:03:53 PM |
while reading a thread asking for stories on miracles in peoples lives ... well it wasent more than seven post till the attackers started taking apart the stories and trying to say they were not miracles ... well I say they were to the people that experienced them and that is all the OP asked for...analyzing the miracles or perceived miracles is off topic ... then i started looking for a topic on religion that didnt become an attack on that religion ...could not find one
First off, there is almost as much debate on just what "attacking" a religion entails as there is as to just what constitutes religion. Therefore there will ALWAYS be people complaining about others 'attacking' a religion. The biggest problem his is that there will invariably be someone who thinks that anything contradictory is an attack. This is not always so.
Second, to say:"well I say they were to the people that experienced them and that is all the OP asked for," is to open the door to a relativism that precludes any sort of debate whatsoever.
Thirdly, to challenge the validity of an alleged 'miracle' in a topic that is discussing miracles, is far from being off topic. If all the OP wants is a thread of heart warming stories, when they are in the wrong place. Such a thread can easily devolve into preaching or a inane chatter.
now if an atheist posted a thread saying give me reasons to disbelieve there is a god theist would have no reason attacking the atheist except to say i cant comment because i do not share your view
Except that in such a topic it would be fully reasonable to allow a theist to rebut any claims that would be a reason to disbelieve the existence of a god. To say otherwise would come close to violating the rule that says you can not restrict who can answer your thread. | |
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| why is this topic called religion
Posted: 1/3/2008 6:32:36 AM | In my opinion and as far as I can see, , this section of the forums is appropriately named the religion/supernatural forum, and NOT "the christian corner." Maybe if that was made a little clearer to "some", then "some" might feel less attacked...no?
For example, it never ceases to amaze me that each time a thread is started to discuss god, that there seems to be many people who automatically assume that the discussion is about the christian god....why is that?
Where does it say that this is a christian forum? Did I miss something? Do atheists get their own forums too? Hey, maybe we could call it "the atheist alley?"
In my opinion, if people wish to discuss their miracle stories without me being able to at least question the validity of their stories, they should move it to a christian forum, or like another poster mentioned, move it to a "feel good" thread.
But as long as I still breathe, I will continue to exercise my right to question, challenge, and possibly make someone think of what
it is that they're saying.....with as much respect for their beliefs as I can muster for the occasion, of course ;)
And just to make a point, what may look like just innocent "feel good stuff" to some, is not necessarily so to another.
I myself, and that's me and my own opinion only, find ANY stories of medical miracle recovery HIGHLY offensive and insulting.
Again in MY opinion, it simply reeks of elitism.... of being more special that the lady down in 402 that was what? !?!!?? Not good enough? Not pure enough??!?? Not devoted enough??!?? Or perhaps she didn't pray enough, didn't believe enough??? And what about the 5 year old kid who's struggling to breath in his every breath?? Wasn't he good enough for a "miracle"??
Or was god simply too busy granting someone their wish of a miracle for a sunny day for their golf game on saturday?
So you see, what seems to be just a "feel good thread" to some, is actually quite nauseating to others. And I can say with all honesty that THAT is the main reason I consider myself an anti theist on top of being just the dirty rotten atheist that I am;)
I will never accept that "some" people are better than others or more worthy of a miracle than others...never. Nor will I ever
accept that a god would listen to some prayers and not others. Never.
And honestly, I don't see why I can't come here and voice my opinion like any other.....after all it is just MY opinion, nothing more, nothing less. I by no means think that my way is the only way, nor do I claim to "know" anything for sure.
I never once claimed exclusivity of the one and only truth, nor do I try and shove any of my beliefs down any one's throat...people are more than welcome to skip over my posts if they so desire...to each their own:)
JMHO | |
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| why is this topic called religion
Posted: 1/3/2008 7:30:39 AM | I think the "Religious" side of the Religious/Supernatural equation (if I may call it that) have it, thread wise, in their favour... I wonder why this should be.
My conclusion is, that seeing Religion and Supernatural together, it strikes various sensations in the hearts of these would-be readers, lol...
From the zealot brigade it stokes resentment that can only be quelled with a few burnings...
From the atheist, a gleeful hand-rubbing of scientific splattering might do the trick! (hehe)...
From the agnostics, a more peaceful balance of poetic ass-kicking!
It's all good stuff... hence, why I keep coming back, I think.
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| why is this topic called religion
Posted: 1/3/2008 8:01:20 AM |
people are more than welcome to skip over my posts if they so desire...to each their own:)
LOL. I keep putting forth the same suggestion my not as old as my old soul, oldsoul. But I think you and I are not unlike a tragic, bloody traffic accident. The faithful do their best to keep their speed up and just drive by but their necks get rubbery and they just have to slow down and glance at the carnage we have wrathed. | |
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| why is this topic called religion
Posted: 1/3/2008 8:28:09 AM | Yes, there are indeed disagreements with religious dogma here. As has been said, this isn't a specific faith's mutual admiration society. And, yes, sometimes the disagreements are attacks, but not nearly as often as is claimed, IMO. Persecution complex is alive and well. For the record, the faithful have sometimes fired back in kind, as TongFu graciously admitted. At least a few have quoted the Scripture "Only a fool says there is no god." Or they make claims of ammorality on the part of those without faith.
I would think that disagreement would be welcomed. As DA has said, it is on her part. After all, (Christian) believers are exhorted to be able to give reasons for why they believe! | |
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| why is this topic called religion
Posted: 1/3/2008 9:03:20 AM | well everyone has missed my point ...or maybe i missed the point ...you see i read the rules to the forums ... and if they mean what they say ...i stand by my assertion that a thread where the Op asked for people to tell miracles ... then debating the existence of miracles is OFF TOPIC as is attacking the belief of miracles
now if the op asked if posters believed in miracles then debating the existence of them would be ok as would stating that it is your belief that people that believe in them are mentally challenged.... i didnt say that debating any aspect of religion was bad ...i just stated that in some threads it was OFF TOPIC and had no place there
The rules are that ..yes it is a public forum and anyone has a right to participate ...but only ON TOPIC and the OP sets the topic it was only my assertion that within a few post any topic in this forum goes to the same argument without regard for the OPs topic ...now i have no problem with participating in that argument but ... can we not leave it out of a thread where the OP just wants to hear about what posters have experienced which they consider a miracle
It's a public forum. Which pretty much means, that anyone within "the public" can comment on a topic.
If one asks in a public forum about "miracles" then people who do not believe in them, may also respond. yes you are right if the OP asked to discuss miracles ..but the OP only wanted posters to tell of miracles | |
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| why is this topic called religion
Posted: 1/3/2008 9:21:38 AM | Those of us who are respectful of other's beliefs or non-beliefs are not having much of a problem here. The key is tolerance. It's certainly OK to disagree with another person's beliefs if you don't take the attitude that you must be right and they must be wrong. They are as entitled to their religion as you are to yours.
The problem arises from some religion's assumption that they are the only path, and all others must therefore not be legitimate. Wrong! There's every reason to think that God intended to be God to all people, and therefore would accept multiple paths.
One has only to look at some of the posts here to see how twisted the message has become. Instead of the welcoming God I think of, many people have a vengeful, angry concept of God, and are eager to preach that to us. Gee, Thanks! 
How do you know He or She is so angry? Maybe God is happy and has a good sense of humor!  That's my guess, anyway! | |
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| why is this topic called religion
Posted: 1/3/2008 9:26:15 AM | Why is it that Christians immediately think just because a forum is called religion that its about their religion at all? I think its equally important to discuss the nature of religion, its relevance and even if we should as a society accept religion at all. Religion is a huge subject with many facets.
It is rare to find someone who is religious to see the logic in the above mentioned because they are conditioned to believe what they believe. Religion seems to give people the illusion that its acceptable to be violent and separatists and entitled to preach the poison that has been responsible for so much death and destruction in the past. I think the better question is why don't Christians stick to 'Christian' forums if they want to quote their bible and practice their faith.
I think its rather insensitive of Christians to pollute the world with their propaganda considering how many victims of their religion are still suffering the effects of abuse from either religious people or The churches and church run schools and programs. I know the ops doesn't say he is Christian but this very topic comes up quite a lot and its mostly Christians that ask it.
I think its important to keep things in perspective. I wouldn't choose to believe in something that is responsible for the death of millions of people over the centuries but then i'm sensitive to human kind. Religion is just as bad may be even worse then being nationalistic. | |
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| why is this topic called religion
Posted: 1/3/2008 9:34:20 AM | Amy thats still not my point .... everyone has a right to believe as they want ...and i love to debate with them even the arrogant ones on both sides or all sides as the case might be ... my rant is only that every thread in this topic ...Quickly becomes the same debate with no regard for being ON TOPIC and that means the OPs choice of topics
Why is it that Christians immediately think just because a forum is called religion that its about their religion at all? I think its equally important to discuss the nature of religion, its relevance and even if we should as a society accept religion at all. Religion is a huge subject with many facets.
its not unless the OP says it is ...each thread is about what the OP wants it to be about ...but that is not the case in this topic ..and that is my complaint
this thread just reinforces my point ... the topic is ...staying on topic but ... its progressed to the same topic of all the others ..and its impossible to lead it back to the topic i wanted... as i have tried in each post | |
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| why is this topic called religion
Posted: 1/3/2008 9:38:54 AM |
i stand by my assertion that a thread where the Op asked for people to tell miracles ... then debating the existence of miracles is OFF TOPIC as is attacking the belief of miracles
If you stand by this particular example, then the issue seems to be a non-starter because the "offending" poster issued this apology immediately following:
My apology to the OP, what was asked for was not given...i.e. a miracle story. My earlier post was off post to the thread. | |
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| why is this topic called religion
Posted: 1/3/2008 9:54:06 AM | that may be true in that thread ... but as i said ....after i noticed it in that thread i scanned many others and the pattern was true in all that i scanned ...the one stated was just an example .... and even this thread is an example ... i think that if i went as far off topic as that and realized it i would delete the offending post ... but then i try to think about the OP enough that i dont let my agenda lead me that far off topic .. but it happens
im sorry Flyguy i reread that thread and i still dont see where the offender apologized for going off topic ...maybe we are reading two different threads ...if we are that supports my assertion if both were hijacked in the same way ... but in the one i read I find no apology for the transgression | |
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| why is this topic called religion
Posted: 1/3/2008 10:24:35 AM | The apology is in post 7 of the "Does anyone have a Miracle story they would like to share????" thread.
So, you are asking why people hijack a thread to poop on the party, I think. Well, hijacking is incredibly common. That's just how it goes. As for the venomous aspect of it, there are people who make no reservations about their distaste for religion, its claims, its history, its abuses, its doctrine, etc. If it gets out of hand, the posts can be reported and removed. That is also incredibly common.
As for this thread, your title choice is somewhat misleading, which I think explains your original intent being missed.
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| why is this topic called religion
Posted: 1/3/2008 10:57:08 AM |
well everyone has missed my point ...or maybe i missed the point
Yes I believe perhaps the latter is true.
you see i read the rules to the forums ... and if they mean what they say ...i stand by my assertion that a thread where the Op asked for people to tell miracles ... then debating the existence of miracles is OFF TOPIC as is attacking the belief of miracles
now if the op asked if posters believed in miracles then debating the existence of them would be ok as would stating that it is your belief that people that believe in them are mentally challenged
You see I too have read the rules. And you can stand by any assertion you want to stand by. But your assertions carry no authority nor does your interpretation of the rules. Might I suggest that if you have a post in mind that you believe to be in violation of the forum rules that you call the attention of the forum moderators to that post. Then perhaps you will be communicating with someone who cares anything at all about how you read the rules. And of course, if you have a point that is valid, you will be talking to somebody that can affect the changes you desire and not a bunch of the public participants who ourselves find it arrogant of you to think that you can rule this forum.
can we not leave it out of a thread where the OP just wants to hear about what posters have experienced which they consider a miracle
No. The OP has no choice in how a participant on a thread he starts chooses to reply to any post on the thread. You seem somewhat disturbed about the conduct of these forums and the participants here. So I'm just curious, why do you stay? | |
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| why is this topic called religion
Posted: 1/3/2008 11:16:40 AM | flyguy yes you are right .. on the title of the thread ...i saw that and ... was quick to try to steer the thread the way i intended
jrbogie i dont want to police the forums .... i wanted to discuss this topic with you ...i dont complain to the moderators ... i try to reason my points with the posters ... it bothers me not what you post... i can easily skip your post ... but then i wouldnt understand you thoughts on a subject .. which is why i participate in forums....disturbed? ..i dont think so ...why do i stay ?... im having the time of my life talking to you interesting people ... you seam to be upset ... why?...Peace My friend
i hope im not trying to rull this forum ... all i recall is asking WHY? | |
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