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| Car stalls when idling???
Posted: 1/3/2008 10:21:13 AM | I am hoping someone could tell me why my car would stall when idling while waiting for a green light. I've recently changed the battery, had the oil and air filter changed but it is still stalling, once in a while, up until the car warms up.
Also since I changed the battery my distance starter won't start the car up anymore. I've checked the battery in the starter that is on my key chain and it is still good.
Any suggestions? Thanks in advance! | |
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| Car stalls when idling???
Posted: 1/3/2008 10:33:04 AM | There's an item called an O2 sensor. It can befuddle the cars running if it's bad.
It could be a fuel filter clog too. When the last time they were replaced?
If it's a fuel injected engine, try some injector cleaner in your tank.
Get some STP fuel treatment. There are several name brands. You may also try a brand named Sea Foam.
Moisture in the fuel system can cause this problem too.
If it stalls often expecially when cold, I do not think it's electrical. It's probably a fuel or air problem.
The remote starter may not work because when the battery was removed, the system totally shut down and it may need to be reprogrammed. Do you have a manual that states a procedure or gives you the code for this? May be a dealer fix?
Good Luck | |
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| Car stalls when idling???
Posted: 1/3/2008 10:49:35 AM | | Oups! Silly me! Of course the type of car might be an important factor. Thank for asking quo vadis. It is a Ford Escort LX 1994; 4 door hatchback with a cute spoiler, 1.9 engine, and it's one of my favorite colours... Pink .... ;-0 | |
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| Car stalls when idling???
Posted: 1/3/2008 11:14:13 AM | >It could be a fuel filter clog too. When the last time they were replaced?
Not a chance, that would make it high speed problem, no power at highway speeds and it will idle normally.
>Moisture in the fuel system can cause this problem too.
Also a slim chance since there's 9%+ alcohol in all gasoline today. (in the US that is)
...........
Has the Oxygen sensor ever been replaced? (should be changed every 50K miles)
Stalling at idle is usually the O2 sensor or a TPS (throttle position sensor) OR just a really filthy fuel system that has never been cleaned. Adding Fuel system cleaner to the gas tank should help (everyone should use it every month or 2) but most importantly, use a good grade gas, middle or premium actually saves you money on fuel because the gas mileage will be better. | |
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| Car stalls when idling???
Posted: 1/3/2008 12:10:26 PM |
middle or premium actually saves you money on fuel because the gas mileage will be better.
Thats not true and besides, the recommended fuel is 87 octaine where anything else is just a waste of money...
OP, I used to own a little Escort like yours except it was a 1992 and had a bumper sticker instead of a spoiler and was puke yellow...
Drove it 102 miles each way 6 days a week to work...
Had to carry extra clothes because never knew when it would break down on me...
But the 40 mpg was awesome, especially when gas was .90 a gallon...
Anyway, have you checked all your vacuum lines for a possible leaking hose which would cause idling problems?
It has to be something simple, just a pain to diagnose...
Good Luck... | |
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| Car stalls when idling???
Posted: 1/3/2008 1:13:03 PM | original poster,
do you own any hand tools of any kind? the oxygen sensor requires a special socket with a cutout on the side for the wire in order to be removed and replaced properly. since it is installed in the exhaust pipe close to the engine, usually access from under the car is required. it is a good idea to wait until the car is warm, not hot, to avoid burning yourself.
if you are NOT proficient with a wrench in your hand there is nothing you, as an owner, can do. you will have to take it to a garage. to diagnose your stalling problem, tests must be performed, which will usually involve expensive equipment.
the only thing you, as an owner, can do, is explain the SYMPTOMS the car is displaying as accurately as possible. do NOT tell the mechanic what your friends think the problem could be, it just wastes the mechanic's time. no mechanic worth his/her salt is going to respect third party opinions from people with unverifiable or nonexistent credentials. just stick to the symptoms, tell the mechanic exactly what the car is doing and when, and if you can think of anything you are doing with the car that consistently causes it to display the same symptoms, such as pressing the brake or slowing down, say so. these rules apply whenever you take the car in.
that said, i will give my diagnosis, and the reasons, and you can take it or leave it. your car is not necessarily showing symptoms of a damaged oxygen sensor. the oxygen sensor needs to reach a certain temperature in order to give accurate readings, and until it warms up to that temperature, the computer has a pre-programmed set of instructions for fuel delivery ratios. unfortunately, since it cant actually sense the oxygen content of your exhaust until then, it cannot compensate for unusual conditions like worn spark plugs, faulty emission control equipment like EGR, and so on. If everything is tip-top, your car will run as normal when cold, but if there is a problem, your computer is flying blind until the oxygen sensor warms up. since your symptoms disappear when the car is warm, the computer is likely sensing a very rich or lean fuel mixture due to other problems and is over- or under-fueling your car to compensate. i wonder what your actual fuel mileage is at this time. if you can calculate that, and pass it on to your mechanic, it will help tremendously.
your mechanic, like your doctor, is looking for symptoms, not suggestions. you cannot perform a root canal at home, and since your car needs a thorough diagnosis, it must be taken in. find a reputable mechanic, and tell them what you see, hear, and feel. since the oxygen sensor is an eventual wear item, it is a good idea to replace it; and it may be damaged, but i strongly feel it is not the root cause of your problems.
also, regarding your remote starter, you must verify that the power supply and ground wires from the remote starter control box are properly connected. since it stopped functioning when you replaced the car's battery, the wires likely were just wrapped around the battery post clamps, which i feel due to acid and corrosion usually present on batteries, is a bad idea and should be relocated to pick up power at the fuse panel and ground itself on the car's inner body panel. good luck and all the best. | |
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| Use of Recommended Octane
Posted: 1/3/2008 2:20:31 PM | middle or premium actually saves you money on fuel because the gas mileage will be better.
35 years of experience with everything from air-cooled V-twins to Long-nose KW's says that statement is BUNK! There may be a few odd examples but if your car/truck/MC is properly tuned the octane recommended will perform best. I have noticed better fuel mileage when traveling in higher elevation when using an octane rating below the recommended. Has happened with both Bikes and SUVs. Can't explain it but I was not complaining. | |
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| Use of Recommended Octane
Posted: 1/3/2008 2:34:57 PM | Actually the computer does not even recognize the O2 sensor until a car is warmed up since its an electronic device sensor meant to work well when it is hot. Until then the computer often has a default mode it runs on.
Could be a lot of things. Even likely nothing wrong with your car -- allow me to explain. Your car was designed to run on 1994s fuel and today we have 13 year later fuel standards which include ethanol.
Try to find a station selling the old stuff, non oxygenated fuel, and it should run much better. New gas does not have quite the same power the old stuff does.
Next thing I would check is the MASS AIRFLOW SENSOR.... MAFS is what measures all the air coming in and tells the computer how to dole out the gasoline accordingly. Often tapping on it will create the same problem, stalling or rpms dropping, when the unit is on its way out. It'll be black and inline with or near the air filter.
If you have a mechanically inclined friend around have him use a can of Seafoam in it and maybe the problem will go away. Follow instructions on the can. This $10 treatment is what shops will charge $60-100 for and its a very high aircraft grade solvent that is great on eating out gumming and varnishing. Do it once a year and it can prevent many of the common fuel related problems. It won't fix a MAFS problem, though. good luck | |
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| Use of Recommended Octane
Posted: 1/3/2008 3:20:39 PM | | Thanks guys! All of your hints and advice are really appreciated. I do know a reliable and very honest mechanic to whom I'll bring the car too since it seems the stalling could be cause by a number of different problems. As a not too mechanically inclined woman, I've always found it important to inform myself 1st, that way I know what I could be facing before bringing the car in for repair. Before doing so though, I might just buy a can of that fuel system cleaner, hopefully it shall be as simple as that. | |
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| Use of Recommended Octane
Posted: 1/3/2008 3:56:42 PM | random entry,
as a professional i disagree with just about everything you said, save for the part about the oxygen sensor, as i stated earlier yes it needs to be hot to send data. i say this not to start a fight--although i am sure you are offended--but i must clear up a couple things. first of all, modern fuel will have no adverse effect on any vehicle designed to run on unleaded fuel, period. if your car runs improperly it is out of tune. the only exceptions here would be contaminated fuel from disreputable stations; and E85 ethanol, which contains 85 percent ethanol, and this fuel should not be used on non-flexfuel vehicles as it attacks conventional rubber fuel system components. going back to disreputable stations, here in canada independent stations are able to offer their fuel at lower prices than the big names, even though they buy fuel from the same suppliers. Why? Conspiracy? Well, no.
independent stations buy what is called "transmix"--this is fuel that is transported from refineries along pipelines which can be several hundred miles long and then blended with the bottom portion of fuel from holding tanks, and rounded off with fresh fuel. as you can imagine, there is a higher content of impurities in this fuel and thus commands a lower price. google it and read up if youre not familiar.
as for the $10 fuel system treatment offered by gas stations and hardware stores, no it is NOT the same as the commercial grade fuel system cleaner your mechanic uses. it is completely different. commercial grade cleaner comes in a highly pressurized bottle and attaches to your vehicle's fuel rail with specialised fittings. as for effectiveness, there is absolutely no contest; consumer grade fuel system cleaner rarely if ever, works. it is highly dilute so as not to cause harm if grossly misused. if you are talking about the aerosol carb cleaner cans, that is a different product, but remember this engine has SEFI fuel injection, meaning there is a separate injector for each cylinder and the car's intake system handles nothing but air right up to the cylinder head. it will not work.
lastly, as for the maf sensor, again leave it to the pros. mafs can be quite expensive on their own, and this is important: NO auto parts store will accept returns of electronic parts. all sales are final. that means, if you buy an $800 sensor and it doesnt solve the problem, even if you have NOT damaged the part, they wont take it back and youre stuck with it. leave this risk to the mechanic.
thanks. | |
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| Use of Recommended Octane
Posted: 1/3/2008 6:04:07 PM | | It's the spoiler. It is running low on cuteness. Have it recharged next oil change. And ask them to strain for oil worms. If you have those, the engine will need to be de-wormed. | |
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| Use of Recommended Octane
Posted: 1/3/2008 6:53:12 PM | ,
as a professional i disagree with just about everything you said,
Golly Wally, why does this not surprise me? 
I'm not offended, I'm highly amused actually. To think that you, "a professional", knows more than my nationally syndicated car guy who reads and studies for hundreds of hours on these issues is rediculous. He has studied these fuel differences in years of fuels that you probably have not even begun to imagine. I have heard him go on and on about this during several of his radio shows and I know he knows what he is talking about.
Of course you want people believing all that so they feel unempowered about doing anything by themselves. Fact: Seafoam is 1/3 alcohol, 1/3 lubricant, and 1/3 Stoddard Solvent. Google the later, you will find it is as I said earlier -- an aircraft quality solvent.
Don't tell me it does not work as I HAVE SEEN IT WITH MY OWN TWO EYES.
As to the gasoline issue I get my information from Paul Brand, local fellow who has run a radio talk show for almost two decades now. He is NATIONALLY SYNDICATED and one can not get that kind of acclaim by being a buffoon. Are you nationally syndicated? Do you have a radio show? Written columns and tv appearances?
He was also an ex racecar driver. Sorry, dude, but I'll take his opinion over your backwoods love of old VW Ghias.
The advice I give on MAF also came directly from listening to him. The seafoam solvent can SPECIFICALLY reduce carbon build up which is know to give EXACTLY the kind of symptoms the OP described. The carbon absorbs extra gas prior to warm up and therefore can cause an engine to stumble and run rough, sometimes even stall out. This vehicle is ONE year difference than yours, OP:
http://www.startribune.com/business/12437436.html
Q My wife has a '95 three-quarter-ton Chevy truck with the 350 V8. Seventy-five percent of the time, it almost stalls out after about three minutes of driving, seemingly just as it goes into closed loop. At 1,000 rpm it kicks back on to maintain a nice idle regardless of throttle position.
The dealer and the local shop failed to find the problem. Oddly, they still charged me handsomely, though: new oxygen sensor, EGR valve, fuel filter, thermostat, plugs, rotor, cap, air filter, even a new throttle body, including fuel regulator. None of those helped.
I'm thinking the ignition and fuel pump are OK since the engine runs OK at wide open. I understand this forces open loop on the powertrain control module (PCM). It did a similar thing last summer until I pulled the air conditioning plugs. To me it sounds like the PCM shuts off the fuel in closed loop at certain times under load. But I don't know what to do about it. Any thoughts, or am I way off base?
A I don't think you're off base, but the problem may be related more to a carbon buildup on valves, pistons and in the combustion chamber than to a specific component that has failed.
From your description, it appears the near-stall occurs just at the moment the engine management system tries to switch to "closed loop" operation, meaning the fuel-air mixture is now adjusted by the feedback from the oxygen sensor. Before reaching operating temperature and shifting to closed loop, the fuel-air mixture is determined by a warm-up program based on coolant temperature, manifold pressure, throttle position and engine rpm.
If carbon deposits in the combustion chamber are absorbing a percentage of incoming fuel, the engine may run lean and stumble a bit just as it shifts to closed loop with oxygen feedback. Once the system recognizes the lean condition based on oxygen feedback, it can adjust -- in this case, slightly richen -- the fuel-air mixture by lengthening injector pulse widths.
Have the dealer or independent shop connect a scan tool and monitor the "integrator" and "block learn" circuits to see if this is what's happening. Or, just try the Minnesota Tune-Up with SeaFoam -- or have a professional induction cleaning done -- to remove carbon deposits and see if the symptom improves.
And not to overlook the obvious, make sure the idle air control isn't sticky or fouled with carbon deposits.
You keep disagreeing with me and my nationally syndicated car guy who still gets his hands dirty to this day. The man owns everything from a weedwacker to a half track! You crudentials are what again? Laughable compared to his, I'll bet.
Feel free to write him, OP. His email address is there, great site to search and read his car stories. You can even call in on sat & sunday afternoon and listen online and talk to him in person, completely free. | |
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| Use of Recommended Octane
Posted: 1/3/2008 7:32:44 PM | random entry, i am gravely disappointed by your response. you seem to have taken my comments far too personally. as for my credentials, i work on modern vehicles and construction machinery every day, and get my information from manufacturers, trade journals and daily experience, not the radio. i am not paid to endorse seafoam, or any other product. antiques are merely my hobby. also, i do not own my own garage or receive any commissions. the dealership i work for represents five brands of equipment and i am paid an hourly wage to repair my clients' vehicles with the best value in mind. i have nothing to gain by giving poor or misleading advice.
i will not engage you further as it appears i will only upset you. as/re the original post, my advice to find a trustworthy professional still stands. i hope this puts an end to the inflammatory comments on this thread. thank you. | |
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| To clarify
Posted: 1/3/2008 7:43:35 PM |
i am gravely disappointed by your response.
Of course you're " disappointed by my response " as I backed up what I was saying by a guy who was racing when you were probably still in diapers.
I'm not upset, I just don't agree with your statements. Back them up or back off. | |
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| Car stalls when idling???
Posted: 1/3/2008 11:51:11 PM | there is a host of things that could be causing this stalling problem from vacuum leak , water in fuel, stuck choke or erg, to bad ignition components.
since you discribed you car is a hatchback with a cute little spoiler -i would think your diving habits keep you in the fast lane (probibly not going to be a carbon build-up, unless you lug it around, idle alot and only use your car for short trips). i'm thinking something wrong with the fuel -so you should look at that first.
first of all: what were you doing when you first noticed the problem? did you just fill up? try the simple no brainer things first:
-fill up with some higher grade gas
-add a couple bottles of HEET gas dryer -to remove any water that may have accumulated in the tank (may be water in your gas)
-take the car out on the freeway and open it up for a few miles.
-listen for any strange noises under the hood: (grinding, clicking, hissing)
-if your still having problems -take it to a reputable shop and tell them what its doing -
GET AN ESTIMATE FOR WHAT IT WILL COST TO TROUBLESHOOT. when they find a problem MAKE SURE THEY CONTACT YOU WITH A COST TO MAKE REPAIRS. and aren't charging you to replace components -if they are just taking a shot at the moon to fix.
if it is water in the gas, look for another station to fuel up, check the seal in your gas cap, and avoid fuel stations when you see a refueling truck parked in them. | |
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| Use of Recommended Octane
Posted: 1/4/2008 2:36:06 AM | | It could have to do with your car starter as well. My parents had a similar problem with their car. They kept taking it in to the dealership (it was still under warranty) and they couldn't find anything when they hooked it up to the computer. And strangely enough they'd drive it around and everything would be fine, so we'd get it back, with nothing done to it, and the same thing would happen again, so my parents would take it back in again. The car was in the shop more than it was at home, so finally my parents got fed up and decided to buy a new car (they never really liked that car in the first place, they just bought it because they needed a new car and it was cheap... a cavalier). Decision was made, they had a car picked out and decided to take the car back in one more time. This time the mechanic tried using the remote starter, and finally they got the car to act up. The problem was when the remote starter was installed some wires were stripped and starting the car with the remote starter caused it to act up. So the wires were replaced and the lady who bought our car got a car free of problems. Well free of that problem anyways. | |
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| Use of Recommended Octane
Posted: 1/4/2008 9:43:41 AM | Mine runs a bit rough...but a tune up should take care of that.
Maybe a sticky carb?
Maybe the timing is off a bit?
Idle set too low?
I dunno...everyone seems to throw out a lt of technical stuff.....whe it could be something simple. Sure...we should have checked the simple stuff forst...but always nice to have a reminder...might have missed something. | |
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_JAFO_
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Joined: 11/9/2007
Msg: 19 | |
| Car stalls when idling???
Posted: 1/4/2008 11:13:50 AM | I think maybe it's time to start flirting with your local single mechanics.
As for the opinions and comments posted by Random Entry and Quo Vadis--they both sound reasonable. In the meantime do you two need a referee? | |
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| Car stalls when idling???
Posted: 1/4/2008 1:57:14 PM | _jafo_, certainly not. i do not engage in imaginary pissing contests. if random entry feels threatened by my contrary opinions, i will not challenge him further, that is not my intent. i do have some thoughts to add to the posts that follow, however, and i hope we can all agree to an adult discussion, moving forward.
as for the carb/choke comments, the car in question has sequential port fuel injection and therefore has no carburetor, or choke, simply a throttle plate. there will be no buildup of gum or varnish upstream of the fuel injectors, which are all right at the cylinder head.
as for the remote starter, i would suggest no more than looking for a red and a black wire near the top of the battery and connecting red to the positive post and black to the negative until she can get the car to a person (preferably a mechanic or electrician)with the technical wherewithal to make a sound electrical connection elsewhere.
and as/re other suggestions of what to look for, given the limited skills of the owner i would still recommend taking it in. sometimes an unskilled backyard mechanic can end up doing more harm than good and it is not worth taking the chance. regarding repair estimates, understand that repair shops rarely give estimates on how long it takes to troubleshoot a problem because it is usually impossible to predict and if they try, it is always a verbal off the cuff guess and is not legally binding. you will always be charged full shop rate for the duration of the troubleshooting process; however this cost is rolled in to the actual repair if you approve the repair. you will not pay for the same work twice. that said, once the mechanic has your car inside and has started diagnostics it is reasonable for you to walk up to the counter and ask about your car after the first hour, and be downright upset after the second. in my opinion it is always better for you to be in attendance while your car is being serviced, that way the shop must be accountable to you at all times. thanks and good luck. | |
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| Car stalls when idling???
Posted: 1/4/2008 6:34:17 PM | So, what's the verdict? I'm reading up this thread like a hungry wolf to get an answer. So far 6 people presented 12 diagnosis of the problem and still no final answer.
I have been searching for an answer to this problem for a long time for this seemingly very simple problem 'car stalls when idling' .
I used to have a Saab 9000 and that used to stall any time I stopped at a STOP sign. Having a car IQ in the negatives I asked my car freak friend for help. He told me it's timing problem, and showed me to turn a screw on the carburetor (yes, it had a carburetor). The technique worked for a while then my Saab went back to his original stalling mood when idle. Since then I am looking for an answer to my 'why?'.
I also noticed this happens (stalls when idle) to only 4 cylinder cars, not 6 cylinders. Can any one back me up here? | |
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| Car stalls when idling???
Posted: 1/4/2008 6:42:23 PM | | Not sure if this is relevant but my 4 cyl would stall and bog down in wet weather (and eventually not start). I replaced the plugs and wires and it stopped doing it. | |
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| Car stalls when idling???
Posted: 1/4/2008 10:38:02 PM | I have a honda hatch back 1984 ,,, runs beautifully...but on occassion I would try to start it and it would`nt start , gaz was`nt getting through...my mechanic put a container of expensive gas treatment into the gas tant , make sure you put it in just before you FILL the gas tank so that it mixes in good !!!.....
Never had anymore problems !!!!...... | |
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| Car stalls when idling???
Posted: 1/5/2008 8:48:11 AM |  Yay!!!! I knew the answer to that one!!!!
I'm proud of me because when it comes to vehicles "Man, I feel like a woman" | |
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| Car stalls when idling???
Posted: 2/28/2008 11:53:37 AM | | WOW! I am so amazed at how lucky I am to have such an excellent and honest mechanic. Finally brought the car in. It took all of 2 minutes to find the problem. It was a hose connector that had split so it was letting air out. Cost me $10.00. I was so pleased I gave him a 5 buck tip. Thanks for all of your advice and suggestions. | |
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