| The Silent Treatment ... the Flip Side
Posted: 1/6/2008 2:43:46 PM | Ok CAVE people. Speak up.
Per the other thread about the Silent Treatment... It was not until message 59 in the other thread that Someone bothered to cough up ONE POSSIBLE reason. Obviously very few folks are aware of the "Cave". It is more a man thing - the Cave - but women do it too. What many people perceive as the Silent Treatment from a partner, is often Nothing more than Cave time! The fact that someone can suddenly "go quiet" for no apparent reason may not be because they are pi**ed at you or trying to send you a message. Or trying to make you pay or hurt you. It may not have anything to do with YOU at all! The simple fact is SOME people need to be alone [or NEED silence would be more accurate] to "solve" or figure out a SOLUTION to "something". SOMETIMES.
The same way that usually women [AND most I have known] will WANT to discuss any and/or all problems but neither need or want a solution... and just might become mad and accuse a man of NOT listening if he should be so foolish as to offer a solution. Simply discussing a problem [sometimes seemingly endlessly] CAN be ALL that a woman desires. This can be equally frustrating to usually men who generally are looking for solutions or answers. He thinks "WHY is she telling me this, and then getting mad at me for trying to help!!!"
Life could be so much easier and simpler if Cave people could learn to tell their partners that "I love you and am not mad at you but I NEED some quiet time." Their partners need to understand that people will come out of their caves as soon as they can. And that trying to get someone to come out of their cave before they are ready is usually counterproductive.
It helps to see these differing ways of handling "problems" that men and women utilize IN WRITING and are two of the main differences between men and women covered in the Mars/Venus book.
Don't just ASSUME that the Silent Treatment from a mate has ANYTHING to do with you. Most Cavers are unaware of their "affliction" so don't know enough to give you a "heads up".
Ok, Fellow sometime Cavers. Speak now or forever hold your peace! And IF you decide to speak up, don't allow the "nice ones" the joy of deleting this thread. And SILENCING your voice. | |
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| The Silent Treatment ... the Flip Side
Posted: 1/6/2008 2:45:53 PM | I have never in my life given a man the silent treatment.
Rest assured,if someone I am dating upsets me in any way,I have no problem verbalizing my feelings.
I am all about open and honest communication. | |
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| The Silent Treatment ... the Flip Side
Posted: 1/6/2008 2:47:23 PM | | I am a cave person from your other post...I have no problem telling someone...very politely, that I need time to myself. Unfortunately, have yet to find a man who isn't so needy as to take it the wrong way. | |
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| The Silent Treatment ... the Flip Side
Posted: 1/6/2008 2:49:03 PM |
Unfortunately, have yet to find a man who isn't so needy as to take it the wrong way. Exactly... this isn't about them, it's about us...
Sometimes the key to a good relationship is knowing when to shut up...  | |
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| The Silent Treatment ... the Flip Side
Posted: 1/6/2008 2:49:34 PM | | So you've read the book too. What exactly is it your trying to get across OP? because surely you must know by now that starting a thread about the differences between the communications of men and women isn't going to affect a damn thing if they haven't read the book already, in which case, they already know the answers, whether or not they want to put into practise making a difference in their relationships is entirely their prerogative. | |
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| The Silent Treatment ... the Flip Side
Posted: 1/6/2008 2:54:49 PM | Slaffa, Well said,
I am a cave person. Sometimes I almost go into a trance when working on a problem and if my Ex would say something, I would sort of hear it but it wouldn't register quite right until I came out of it. I was always getting accused of not listening when I was caving. Now with my hearing and the cave time, don't even try to talk to me  | |
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| The Silent Treatment ... the Flip Side
Posted: 1/6/2008 3:03:30 PM |
Don't just ASSUME that the Silent Treatment from a mate has ANYTHING to do with you. Most Cavers are unaware of their "affliction" so don't know enough to give you a "heads up".
I respect "the cave" and need for time to reflect on matters.... I do Not respect that he goes into "the cave" without explaining to me that they just want cave time. Then when questioned on the silence it is suggested that i am reading too much into it without further explanation.
This is a type of passive agression. And when done often enough, one naturally starts to imagine that the cave dweller has better things to think about then me.
Go into your cave if need be, but try to remember when you're in there, there's someone on the outside waiting for you to emerge. | |
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| The Silent Treatment ... the Flip Side
Posted: 1/6/2008 3:10:37 PM | Hmm Margo I'd tend to agree that they're two different things but sometimes they look alike.
Incidentally I just realized who SLAFFA is! Nice to see you dude! Hope you're happy to be back in FLA  | |
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| The Silent Treatment ... the Flip Side
Posted: 1/6/2008 3:11:45 PM | Their partners need to understand that people will come out of their caves as soon as they can.
Unfortunately, there are those who scurry to the cave to avoid any and all discussion of the problems at hand, forevermore. They slink out of their cave in hopes that their partner will forget or give up on working the problem through.
I was married to a man like that. I fully understood his need to escape to the Cave for a period of time. However, he never was ready to come back to the table to talk things through.
Escaping to the cave to think is one thing; escaping just to escape is another. | |
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| The Silent Treatment ... the Flip Side
Posted: 1/6/2008 3:17:47 PM | Qoute" I respect "the cave" and need for time to reflect on matters.... I do Not respect that he/she goes into "the cave" without explaining to me that they just want cave time. Then when questioned on the silence it is suggested that i am reading too much into it without further explanation.
Stovetop, sometimes I will just kinda go there when I have something I need to think about. It isn't like I was on a schedule and could say "OK I'll be cavin here so don't talk for awhile. It just happens. The hard part is she wouldn't believe I wasn't trying to ignore her and accuse me of not wanting to talk to her... Oh well. Thats not a problem anymore...  | |
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| The Silent Treatment ... the Flip Side
Posted: 1/6/2008 3:19:30 PM | OP, it's not so much that so few people are aware of "the cave", it's more that so many feel it's a load of crap.
"The silent treatment" is a manipulative tactic that some women with poor communication skills use to make their men feel bad & thereby under control.
"The cave" is a similar manipulative move that emotionally immature men use to try to appear sensitive and brooding.
Taking time alone to sort out how you feel or what you should do is not the silent treatment & it's not a retreat into a stupid cave, either. It's something that people do when they have a problem to solve or a choice to make, and they are either not ready or don't feel it necessary to talk to anyone else about it. | |
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| The Silent Treatment ... the Flip Side
Posted: 1/6/2008 3:20:37 PM | Quote" Unfortunately, there are those who scurry to the cave to avoid any and all discussion of the problems at hand, forevermore. They slink out of their cave in hopes that their partner will forget or give up on working the problem through.
Gardennut, That sounds more like avoidence then caving... | |
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| The Silent Treatment ... the Flip Side
Posted: 1/6/2008 3:34:26 PM | I don't call them cave people..I call this Passive-Aggresive behavior. This let's them "dodge" the subject by clamming up and ignoring the other person. Avoiding important ..meaningful conversations to the point of frustrating the other person.
Usually the person is pretty much a pessimest and will find anything to make the other person feel guilty that they brought it up in the first place.. | |
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| The Silent Treatment ... the Flip Side
Posted: 1/6/2008 3:36:19 PM |
It isn't like I was on a schedule and could say "OK I'll be cavin here so don't talk for awhile.
Sorry... hello56. that wasn't quite what I was meaning. I put it across poorly.
It is the frequency and length of cave time that I take issue with. | |
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| The Silent Treatment ... the Flip Side
Posted: 1/6/2008 3:39:33 PM | I need cave time and I have since as long as I can remember. That is not to say I haven't kept up an argument until the wee hours of the morning with a SO when we both had to be at work in the morning.
I think a large number of the female population are guilty of that one. And the old "what's the matter?" followed by "nothing" when I've been steamed too.
But early in life, apart from being attached at the hip with my best friend, there were many times when I'd go out in the backyard looking up at the sky for a long time wondering why I couldn't see God -- yet I never asked anyone.
There was also a small dirt dug out under our front steps that I'd curl up in and just be there even though I wasn't in trouble for anything. Same thing with lying under a glass end table and checking out how strange people looked upside down.
As a teen I'd sit in the bathroom and wonder if I could convert it into an apartment and my interests were solitary pursuits like scrapbooking. I was never so happy as to be doing homework that required hours and hours on the computer...or jobs that required accounting or a working knowledge of HTML codes.
It's a big part of who I am and I'm happy to have an opportunity to be able to knock myself out lately. | |
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| The Silent Treatment ... the Flip Side
Posted: 1/6/2008 3:40:49 PM | I am also a cave dweller. And I agree with your observations:
Talkers want to talk but are not necessarily looking for an answer.
Cavers want alone time but are not necessarily looking to withdraw.
It has to do with how we are, how we process information. Being a caver, I need time to myself, and the less opportunity I feel I have for that, the more likely I'll exhibit frustrating behaviors. e.g. Leaving things at work so I have to get them on the weekend, when what I really wanted was the 90 minutes back and forth to myself.
Personally, I now realize I get along best with other cavers. While talkers will say they understand, in times of stress, they want to talk at the very time when I need space. If I've run out of emotional reserve, then it's difficult for me to realize her behavior is her stress response and look past it. And once we both run out of emotional reserve, then our behaviors are always seen as a negative response, and the discussion moves away from the content and more into posturing.
By spending time with others like me, we both handle stressful situations similarly, and therefore more likely to deal with it effectively. It's not a matter of right or wrong, it's a matter of understanding myself and my stress responses. And if I (or they) say, "I need some time to myself", we both understand and accept it.
I'm not trying to say the conversation has to be avoided. But I like to collect my thoughts and mull over what I know before having the conversation. This notion that hitting me with a surprise, and getting my immediate response will be my "true" feelings is not accurate. For one thing, I may not understand exactly what you said, or it's implications. Or maybe the statement was framed in a way I disagree with. I am very uncomfortable making important decisions without having an opportunity to think about them first.
When I was younger, I didn't have the wherewithal to know that my way wasn't wrong, it was just different. And now I realize the best course for me is to know I will do better with a fellow caver. Not that being with a talker is impossible, it will require extra work on both our parts to make it work.
Bob | |
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| The Silent Treatment ... the Flip Side
Posted: 1/6/2008 3:41:47 PM | sorry but women aren't cavers.
they are not silent because they need time, they ( women) do it ( silent ) intentionally to inflict pain or at least hoping it will lead to some drama.
its just their nature............  | |
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| The Silent Treatment ... the Flip Side
Posted: 1/6/2008 3:45:38 PM | Quote: "Unfortunately, there are those who scurry to the cave to avoid any and all discussion of the problems at hand, forevermore. They slink out of their cave in hopes that their partner will forget or give up on working the problem through. "
Sorry... hello56. that wasn't quite what I was meaning. I put it across poorly.
It is the frequency and length of cave time that I take issue with."
Stovetop, no apology necessary. Some people use the Cave to avoid confrontation. I do not. Mine is more of a way to retreat into a place where I can concentrate. It is not something that pops up when the ex and I were argueing, more likely when I have problems at work or around the house i need to figure out....
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| The Silent Treatment ... the Flip Side
Posted: 1/6/2008 3:51:14 PM | I never in my whole life met a woman who was the silent type by nature. Once you talk to them, seems they just keep talking and talking and talking...
and talking. | |
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| The Silent Treatment ... the Flip Side
Posted: 1/6/2008 3:57:36 PM | Hello56... this is getting too confusing.. lmao... the quote you put in your last post wasn't mine.....(well, some of it was, but most of it wasn't) I'm goin to my cave now... I'm in need of reflecting  | |
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| The Silent Treatment ... the Flip Side
Posted: 1/6/2008 4:06:27 PM | I agree that the "silent treatment" can indeed be someone's need to think things through, but in my own experience, it's been nothing but about punishment. How better to hurt someone then to not talk to them, and negate their feelings and make them feel that they don't matter??
A better tool in manipulation and hurt, has never been formulated, IMO. | |
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| The Silent Treatment ... the Flip Side
Posted: 1/6/2008 4:09:22 PM | | kupcakes---there are women who like to go to a cave every now and then. I am one of them and have friends who do the same thing.Don't get me wrong-we do enjoy talking and a good discussion,but we certainly don't beat the proverbial "dead horse'. We do find that their are times when the only way to get our heads clear or find focus or whatever is to go to our caves. I have been totallt silent for whole weekends,so don't go generalizing about women....you haven't met all of us! | |
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| The Silent Treatment ... the Flip Side
Posted: 1/6/2008 4:11:23 PM | Hello56... this is getting too confusing.. lmao... the quote you put in your last post wasn't mine.....(well, some of it was, but most of it wasn't) I'm goin to my cave now... I'm in need of reflecting
Oooops, Maybe I should too. Where am i? | |
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atlast
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Joined: 2/25/2007
Msg: 25 | |
| The Silent Treatment ... the Flip Side
Posted: 1/6/2008 4:19:53 PM | | I can go quiet but it is only because I have nothing left to say. Then the "are you mad because I didn't do anything wrong" discussion I don't want to have begins, resulting in the "silent treatment", which I think is childish. Apparently many women consider themselves incapable of doing any wrong, but that is for a different thread. | |
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