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| Sue Your Drug Dealer ?
Posted: 1/8/2008 8:01:47 PM | I just read about a Saskatchewan woman, who over-dosed on crystal meth, suing the person who sold it to her.
SASKATOON -- A woman who overdosed on crystal methamphetamine in rural Saskatchewan has successfully sued the man who gave her the drug, likely making it the first court win of its kind in the country.
"It was frustrating not having anything done through the criminal system," said 23-year-old Sandy Bergen, who has been drug- and alcohol-free since the incident in Biggar in 2004.
"Financially, I'm not really going to gain from it. But it's a way of holding him responsible."
Bergen and her parents, Stan and Georgina, launched the negligence suit against Clinton Davey in 2005, asking for more than $50,000 in medical costs and other damages.
Bergen suffered a heart attack during the overdose and spent 11 days in a coma. Now living in Saskatoon, she does speaking events at high schools about the dangers of crystal meth.
Last Friday, a Court of Queen's Bench Judge in Saskatoon agreed to strike Davey's statement of defence in the case, which basically finds him in default. A hearing will now be scheduled to determine what amount the court will award.
Bergen learned about the win Monday from her lawyer.
"It means we've effectively won. We proceed as if we were never opposed," said Bergen's lawyer, Stuart Busse
Busse says he could not find another such decision in his research.
"To my knowledge, it's the first case that's gone anywhere against a drug dealer," he said. the complete article can be found here:
http://www.canada.com/reginaleaderpost/news/story.html?id=65caebd1-bb9e-4785-bf43-0723d43b4106&p=1
I'm not sure what I think???
I don't want to be to sympathetic to meth dealers. But doesn't each one of us have to take some responsibility for our own actions?
If an adult, knowingly, and willingly, takes any banned substance, isn't that adult responsible for the consequences he, or she, sufferes as a result of his/her own actions??
Would the age of the person possibly make a difference?
Perhaps if an underaged person, was encouraged by an adult, to take drugs, the adult should be held more accountable?
But the so-called "victim" in this incident was an adult, who knowingly purchased what she knew was an illegal drug. Isn't suing someone else just a way of refusing to take some responsiblity for yourself?
but on the other hand:
Perhaps holding drug-dealers accountable, may be a reasonable attempt to combat the use of drugs like meth? | |
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| Sue Your Drug Dealer ?
Posted: 1/8/2008 8:20:05 PM | OMG!!!
This has me very confused.....the woman "knowingly" purchased these drugs, administered them to herself, yet, she is suing the drug dealer who sold it to her!?? This doesn't make much sense to me, really. I don't know....it just seems like another attempt at diverting the responsibility of her own actions and placing them on the dealer she bought the "product" from. I mean....she willingly purchased an illegal substance and over-dosed.
Did the drug dealer administer the drug to her? Was the substance made by the dealer to be lethal?
If she administered too much of the substance, herself, then I, personally feel it's her own responsibility for causing the over-dose. Unless, the substance was "purposefully" altered by the dealer in order to make it lethal. Not that all drugs are not lethal, but....to alter it, so she did not know that the amount she would normally use would kill her. If she was not aware that the drug was "stronger" or "more potent" than she usually received from said dealer......then, yes, I'd say he should be held accountable. | |
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| Sue Your Drug Dealer ?
Posted: 1/8/2008 8:55:42 PM | Wow. I'm not sure where to start, or how to even address this. Hmm....well, to be honest (and I'm not trying to defend or sympathize with drug dealers in any way either) but I agree that yes, we are all responsible for our own decisions and behaviour as adults. (There are already laws in place where minors are concerned, so that's a completely different issue.) I read through the rest of the article you provided in the link OP, and a couple of things jumped out at me. One, was that this woman said she'd been clean for a year before this incident occurred. So doesn't that imply that, however emotionally distraught she was at the time, she wasn't still addicted to meth so presumably it was a conscious decision on her part to partake that night? That surprised me in a way...I'd have thought her case would have gone through easier if she'd proven herself to be a known addict that was 'pushed over the edge' by that last dose or whatnot.
The other thing that I wondered about, was her sueing for medical costs....why didn't she have any health coverage? We're talking about Saskatchewan, after all.
My first thought would have been that this might be a case that would possibly end up getting appealed up to the Supreme Court and possibly/probably? getting overturned, assuming the drug dealer had the means to do so. Since he's withdrawn his "not guilty" plea, then I'll settle for saying this will be interesting to see how it ends up playing out.
Perhaps holding drug-dealers accountable, may be a reasonable attempt to combat the use of drugs like meth?
The only obstacle I see to that is, how the hell do you hold someone accountable for selling an illegal substance to an adult , who purchased it of their own volition, in the first place?! Again, aren't we all, as adults responsible for our own decisions? Overall, it sounds to me like something that sounds good politically, an issue that, say, would be good to campaign on during an election year or whatnot that will garner an emotional response for sure, but probably not practically feasible in the long run most likely. | |
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| Sue Your Drug Dealer ?
Posted: 1/8/2008 9:17:23 PM |
Would the age of the person possibly make a difference?
Perhaps if an underaged person, was encouraged by an adult, to take drugs, the adult should be held more accountable?
But the so-called "victim" in this incident was an adult, who knowingly purchased what she knew was an illegal drug. Isn't suing someone else just a way of refusing to take some responsiblity for yourself?
Perhaps she got hooked as a teen by this individual. Her addiction may have started when she was younger and had carried over into her adult life. So while, as an adult, she was knowingly infecting herself, she could possibly contend that she would not have made that choice as an adult were it not for what happened in her adolescence.
I seem to remember hearing something about this lawsuit when it was in it's infancy, if this is the same case I'm thinking of. If I'm not mistaken, that was the position they were taking, and that would be in line with your reasoning of an adult being responsible for misguiding a minor. | |
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| Sue Your Drug Dealer ?
Posted: 1/8/2008 10:59:24 PM | The drug dealer knowingly committed an illegal act that contributed to the harm of another. As an experienced seller of the illegal drugs to a former user who was visibly in distress he was in a position to have, and ought to have known (and with little doubt did know) that he illegally sold a highly-addictive controlled substance to a person that was highly susceptible to it's common harmful effects including possible overdose and relapse into addiction. Likewise, he should have known of his product's quality-control problems. If he were legally selling drugs, he would have the duty to take reasonable steps to ensure they were safely produced and dispensed and would be properly administered.
The dealer's breaches of minimal responsible and ethical behaviour (let alone morality) are so far beyond the pale, that he obviously bears financial liability. If his "dispensary" were a legal business, it would be subject to civil tort; It should be no less so because it was operated in contravention of the laws.
The next action should be by The Crown (on behalf of the taxpayers) to recover unpaid corporate and business taxes from the dealer.
I say: Go to town!
...
The Crown, then, can sue the drug users to recover the (publicly-insured) health-care costs for knowingly engaging in risky behaviour etc. Afterwards they can sue smokers and Junk-food Junkies, Drunks, Speeders... This can go on-and-on until all the lawyers get too fat to answer their cell-phones! :-) | |
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| Sue Your Drug Dealer ?
Posted: 1/9/2008 7:03:49 AM | Did the drug dealer administer the drug to her? I don't think it should matter who administered it.
If you're an adult, who knowingly allows yourself to be administered an illegal substance, by anyone (yourself or another individual), shouldn't you be willing to accept any consequences from that action?
Perhaps she got hooked as a teen by this individual That would be a situation, where I could possibly see a person, having some valid reason to hold another responsible.
But, as another poster pointed out in this thread, the woman hadn't used meth for months prior to this incident.
Quoting the article I refered to in the 1st post:
she hadn't smoked meth for about eight months when Davey offered her the drug that night.
Overall, I have mixed opinions.
I'm aware of the burden that drugs like meth cause to our society.
-Cost of doctorvisits, hospital stays and other health care costs that result from a person's substance abuse
-Policing and court costs
-costs of publicly funded detox programs
-social assistance for people who become unable to be gainfully employed
-longer term costs such as social programs aimed at youngsters who didn't have a stable home-life due to a parent's substance abuse
-etc
-etc
I do think that society, and tax-payers, have every right to recover these costs from the people who profit from illegal drug use (the dealers).
But does a self-proclaimed "victim" have such a right?
In some ways this is another example of an adult trying to blame anyone but themselves for their own actions.
I've knowingly done things in my life, that may have put me at risk. But if something had actually happened to me, as a result of me taking that risk, I don't think I could blame it on anyone else.
didn't she have any health coverage? We're talking about Saskatchewan, after all Good point. The cost of this woman's hospitalization, which resulted from her overdose, was paid for by the Saskatchewan taxpayers, not herself.
Perhaps, in a more heartless society, the government could consider her to be the one liable for the health costs, which resulted from her knowingly taking a banned substance? | |
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| Sue Your Drug Dealer ?
Posted: 1/9/2008 8:45:14 AM |
I don't think it should matter who administered it.
If you're an adult, who knowingly allows yourself to be administered an illegal substance, by anyone (yourself or another individual), shouldn't you be willing to accept any consequences from that action?
I worded my question wrong......what I meant was....Did the drug dealer administer the drug to her against her will? From what I gather the answer to that is no. So....she willingly accepted the drug when it was offered to her, administered the drug herself and caused her own over-dose. Why is that the drug dealers fault? She had a choice to say yes or no, she chose to say yes, and to use the drug.
And as mentioned by others......We are in Saskatchewan......what medical costs, other than prescriptions, would she have? The majority of our health costs are covered by the tax payer. I'd say that if there is any recovery of moneys for the health costs.....it should be from the drug dealer to the government, not to the "victim", who willingly took the illegal substance of her own free will.
I just don't get it......."He offered it, I took it, it's HIS fault." Yeah, now if that is not passing the buck, I don't know what is...... | |
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| Sue Your Drug Dealer ?
Posted: 1/9/2008 9:07:34 AM | I think that today we live in a society that does not like to take responsibility for their actions. Suing a drug dealer for an overdose is the same thing as suing McDonalds becasuse your overweight, or Tim Hortons because you spilt your hot coffee on your lap and burnt yourself.
I got a sunburn on my eye lids from being outside to long without sunglasses. I better take the sun to court now because it's not my fault! | |
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| Sue Your Drug Dealer ?
Posted: 1/9/2008 9:28:52 AM | ^^^ That's a good one!! hehe
Oh, wait.....now that you mentioned it......I should sue the tobacco companies because I'm addicted to their product. It's their fault for advertising and glamorizing cigarettes! It's not my fault I chose to smoke. roflmao haha Oh, man.....too funny. :laughing:
Seriously though....I completely agree that we live in a society that does not want to take responsibility for their own actions. We seem to "pass the buck" as much as possible, until there is no one else to "pass the buck" to.
For me, if I've made a mistake, I take responsibility for it, I do not pass the blame to someone else. | |
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| Sue Your Drug Dealer ?
Posted: 1/9/2008 4:09:48 PM |
what medical costs, other than prescriptions, would she have?
Paramedics. I know ambulance trips are not covered, and to the best of my knowledge any items used from ambulance stock are also the responsibility of the patient. That's why it's good to have additional health insurance (through employment, Group Medical Services, Blue Cross, etc.).
But yeah... it's a tough one. Placing liability on the "proprietor" seems silly, even though it could act to discourage drug dealers if financial liability becomes a greater threat than jail time. Lost sales while incurring no costs in jail is a lot easier to deal with than having to try and sell more drugs to pay off settlements. It's now a precedent that can be used in future cases if the guy doesn't seek and win an appeal to have the ruling overturned.
Gotta love the ambulance chasers, though. They will not leave a single rock unturned in their relentless pursuit of liability claims. And here I thought Revenue Canada were the masters of finding ways to get money out of a person. They have been bested! Touché! | |
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| Sue Your Drug Dealer ?
Posted: 1/9/2008 5:36:08 PM |
Paramedics. I know ambulance trips are not covered, and to the best of my knowledge any items used from ambulance stock are also the responsibility of the patient. That's why it's good to have additional health insurance (through employment, Group Medical Services, Blue Cross, etc.)
Oh, yes, I had forgotten about ambulance fees. That is only a couple hundred dollars, nothing too serious.....and I'm not sure about supplies used from ambulance stock, but you may be right about that too.
I just think this whole thing is ridiculous, really. She willingly took drugs that she knew could possibly killer her....she over-dosed.....the way I see it, it is her own responsibility....not that of the dealer, or even her childhood traumas...etc.
I am sooooo tired of people blaming all their problems on "childhood trauma", ok, yeah, it can cause a LOT of grief, believe me, I know this for a fact.....I lived it. But it is not an excuse to behave like an azz or whatever, it does not excuse you from responsibility for your own actions. I'm just frustrated with people who "pass the buck".
This whole thing makes me think of Sigmund Freud (fraud). lol | |
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| Sue Your Drug Dealer ?
Posted: 1/10/2008 12:00:50 AM | The argument opposing my earlier one is, of course:
You can't sue for non-performance of an illegal contract because, within the law, the contract doesn't exist. So, should the good be proven defective, she can't get her money back, or replacement merchandise, either.
The argument of personal responsibility for self harm: It can be used similarly against the dealer with respect liability for damages resulting from his contributory actions. Would a decent citizen give dangerous illegal drugs to a junkie - or anyone? If you knowingly enter into a contract to provide a service or product that may expose someone to danger, you get insurance related to the risk, and you have the other sign a "waiver" acknowledging that they are aware of, understand and accept the risks. I had to sign one the last time I bought Skis with mounted bindings. It said, in-part that, Skiing has inherent health risks... (so I shouldn't sue them if I break my leg while skiing). Of-course I can if the bindings are faulty.
So there you go - drug dealers should protect themselves likewise: provide instruction, get insurance and signed waivers - or get their assets sued off! | |
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| Sue Your Drug Dealer ?
Posted: 1/10/2008 8:30:53 AM | | I think I'm going to sue God. I have my hair grown out to it's natural color and I don't particularily like it. I'll be reasonable like the resident of New Orleans who is sueing for a quadrillion dollars. | |
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| Sue Your Drug Dealer ?
Posted: 1/10/2008 6:43:02 PM | Aight... since I work with a woman from Biggar, I got the scoop.
They didn't sue him because he gave her the drugs, they sued him because when she passed out from her overdose in his house, he and a friend took her back to her mother's house and left her there. Her mother was at work so this girl was left there alone for a number of hours without medical treatment. He wasn't sued for selling her drugs, he was sued for negligence. The fact that he just happened to be the guy who gave her the drugs made the story a little more sensational. It's not unlike how you could be held responsible for letting a friend drive away from your home when you knew they were impaired and they ended up killing someone in an accident.
It makes a little more sense when you know the whole story. | |
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| Sue Your Drug Dealer ?
Posted: 1/10/2008 7:36:46 PM |
It makes a little more sense when you know the whole story.
Hmm...I guess. Kind of.
That was actually the third thing I noticed right off the bat, but I decided to forego mentioning that in my last post...which was, in the article the OP posted, that this girl bought these drugs from a friend who lived with his grandmother....so that made me wonder too, it didn't sound as much like a conventional "drug deal" to me, as a friend buying drugs from another friend.
It's not unlike how you could be held responsible for letting a friend drive away from your home when you knew they were impaired and they ended up killing someone in an accident.
Actually, it is very different from that...or at least it is in BC, where I lived for 18 years until late 2006....once again, the big difference is, alcohol is a legal drug...meth isn't. And to date, (apart from this case in point) there aren't any legal precedents set regarding illegal substances in Canada that I know of.
Frankly, something smells a bit fishy to me in this whole thing, I'm sorry to say. Put it this way....suppose she had just bought that meth from some guy on a corner, and then the guy walked away...so WHO would she now be suing? And, once again, why for $50,000 in medical costs, in Saskatchewan? And, addressing the specific post above me that I'm replying to...who are the "they" that you say are sueing? Her and her lawyer, or am I misconstruing what you mean?
I still think, bottom line is, while it will make great press and garner great emotional response...we are still all responsible for our own choices, and wtf....so you bought some meth, and you weren't happy with the results? wtf?! :33: | |
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| Sue Your Drug Dealer ?
Posted: 1/10/2008 7:39:11 PM | ^^^^That makes a whole lot more sense to me now!
I can see suing him for negligence. I mean really, she passed out at his house and they just left her at her mother's.....with NO one there?? That is just wrong!!
Did he think she had just fallen asleep.....or did he KNOW that she had OD'ed? Either way....to leave her like that was just wrong..... | |
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| Sue Your Drug Dealer ?
Posted: 1/10/2008 8:17:45 PM | which was, in the article the OP posted, that this girl bought these drugs from a friend who lived with his grandmother
Yes... he apparently was her friend. She hadn't used in some time but he offered it to her that night because it was her birthday and she wanted to "celebrate". It was apparently a "gift", he didn't even sell it to her.
again, the big difference is, alcohol is a legal drug...meth isn't.
What makes it the same is that if she was passed out from being drunk and they did the same thing, it would still be regarded as negligence. Regardless of what substance lead to her intoxication, he (they) did not contact anybody to ensure she received medical treatment. She was in no condition to do so herself.
Did he think she had just fallen asleep.....or did he KNOW that she had OD'ed?
Yes he (they) knew she wasn't just sleeping. The woman I work with said when her mom found her, there was blood coming out of her eyes and nose. Why they didn't sue the other guy, she didn't say. Probably because they were more upset with the guy who gave the meth to her, as well as the fact that liability was probably easier to pin on this particular individual since the incident occurred in his residence.
And, addressing the specific post above me that I'm replying to...who are the "they" that you say are sueing? Her and her lawyer, or am I misconstruing what you mean?
"They" being the girl and her mother. The way it was told to me, it doesn't sound like it was (the girl's) idea to sue, it was her mother's. The mother couldn't sue by herself so she had to have her daughter's name on the lawsuit. The girl was pretty much forced into it by her mother, so that's why I say "they" as opposed to "she". | |
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| Sue Your Drug Dealer ?
Posted: 1/10/2008 9:27:32 PM |
Bergen said she hadn't smoked meth for about eight months when Davey offered her the drug that night. She was weak and upset about having to testify in an upcoming sexual assault trial. I see no mention of a birthday there, or a drug-related birthday gift, do you? What makes it the same is that if she was passed out from being drunk and they did the same thing, it would still be regarded as negligence. Regardless of what substance lead to her intoxication, he (they) did not contact anybody to ensure she received medical treatment. She was in no condition to do so herself. Again, all I'm saying is...where does our own personal responsibility end, and someone else's begin? Or what, is she (or her mom, lol) only sueing because they actually have a name to charge with this? Where does personal liablity end, and others' culpability start in a case like this, and who is going to go through every case like this with a fine-tooth comb to even determine who is a "fit" adult to make their own decisions? "The point is he caused this problem, and he should have to pay," Busse said.
Somebody's wallet is going to get fatter from this....  Your post sounds like you know the person in question, or friends of hers...is that the case? | |
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| Sue Your Drug Dealer ?
Posted: 1/10/2008 9:52:18 PM | I see no mention of a birthday there, or a drug-related birthday gift, do you?
Nope, I didn't.
Your post sounds like you know the person in question, or friends of hers...is that the case?
I guess you missed the part in my post where I said I work with someone who knows these people. See:
Aight... since I work with a woman from Biggar, I got the scoop.
I talked with her this morning about it which is why I came on here and related the parts of the story that the news outlets aren't sharing. | |
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| Sue Your Drug Dealer ?
Posted: 1/11/2008 6:29:01 PM | It makes a little more sense when you know the whole story.
Do we now know the whole story, just because someone you work with, has related some small town gossip?
I found that version of the lawsuit, that was explained in post 14 to be interesting, and it certainly could have provided a different perspective of the situation.
But...
I spent a little time snooping around online, reading reports from different news sources, and found absolutely no mention of the "whole story" that was refered to.
The sources I read, (all reputable and accountable news sources) stated that she was suing the dealer for selling her drugs.
If the real motive for her lawsuit, was the actions of the dealer and his friend after she passed out: it was certainly not mentioned by any of the media who reported on what was actually presented in court.
If there is any reliable evidence of the other supposed reason for the lawsuit, I'd welcome anyone to post a link to it. | |
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| Sue Your Drug Dealer ?
Posted: 1/12/2008 8:56:20 AM | | I still think she had a lot of guts for suing a drug dealer. And I'm surprised that she won the suit. Wonder if she'll ever collect on it? | |
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| Sue Your Drug Dealer ?
Posted: 1/12/2008 9:33:23 AM | | law breakers after law breakers, provided there is no financial gain (because the law was broken on both sides) let them bring each other to their own demise. !!! | |
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| Sue Your Drug Dealer ?
Posted: 1/12/2008 11:51:55 PM | thank god ther are some ppl with brains left...4x4+geek and thatguyhim
sticking up for ilegal drug dealer's,,something fishy,,someone wallet gettin fatter,,make me puke !
it is illegal...determined by our fellow peers
Sandy payed her price ,,almost dead,,heart at 50% function,,,life time addiction to deal with .torment on her family and friends. can any of you imagine someone you love being on death's door from something ilegal that we are supposed to be protected from............
WHAT THE HELL DID THE DRUG DEALER SUFFER
,,,you think he doing this for nothing,,think he is upstanding citizen,is he someone you would want your daughter to bring home,think he has not made money off selling drugs ,,,,do you really think he has any remorse for his actions..........
we are responsible for our actions,,,and I beleive our responsiblity is to take care of those who have trouble taking care of themselves .................
and yes I know them and damn proud too...
WOO HOO Sandy  | |
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| Sue Your Drug Dealer ?
Posted: 1/13/2008 12:20:24 AM | I have a few things I would love to say but I will try and be nice here....I have a great nephew in my custody because of Crystal meth... I have had him for 2 years now and the harm that was done to the boy as well and it is both the parents faults as one was the dealer/lab person and the other well ya she was the user and they used it with him in hte room I am thank ful to say that as of now he is back on track health wise as it also damaged him... and as a few of the pofer's know the young lad he is a little sweety.. But it is not and I am not sticking up for the dealer but it is not all there fault really the user has to have the strenght and brains to say NO. I feel that she should not be able to charge him as she is the one that bought it and if she did not go to him he would not have sold it to her yes I must say I hate any kind of drug dealer but I also hate all drug users they are week and have NO brains.
P.S. just my input so sorry | |
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