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| Are humans carnivores, omnivores, or herbivores?
Posted: 1/10/2008 6:35:27 PM | I have done enough studying for the day, my eyes hurt now.
Anyone have any input?
Are humans carnivores, omnivores, or herbivores?
This ties in slightly with the meat v 'non meat diet' debate but just wanted to clarify a point here. | |
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| Are humans carnivores, omnivores, or herbivores?
Posted: 1/10/2008 7:22:10 PM |
An omnivore (from Latin: omne all, everything; vorare to devour) is a species of animal that eats both plants and animals as its primary food source. They are opportunistic, general feeders not specifically adapted to eat and digest either meat or plant material exclusively.
Well that seems to sum up us humans, or is it that the option should be extended to included garbage guts? after all we eat a hell of a lot of chemicals, and natural products that are messed about to be something indescribable?
I wonder what illnesses are attributable to what we eat, Celica's disease and cancer are two that come to my mind, and a host of kids problems which seems to be directly attributable to diets????
They do say we are what we eat! | |
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| Are humans carnivores, omnivores, or herbivores?
Posted: 1/10/2008 7:25:28 PM |
An omnivore (from Latin: omne all, everything; vorare to devour) is a species of animal that eats both plants and animals as its primary food source. They are opportunistic, general feeders not specifically adapted to eat and digest either meat or plant material exclusively.
I've done a little research on this. This is what I have discovered.
Omnivores are classified as animals that have a mixture of sharp cutting teeth as well as flat grinding teeth. Examples of true omnivores are bears, raccoons, opossums, pigs, and many birds. They do not need to cook their meat before they eat it.
They have special enzymes in their stomachs designed to destroy harmful organisms and parasites without the need for cooking their raw meat. To me, this is the most convincing fact of them all. If we are supposed to be eating meat, why can't we eat it in it's natural form like all the other carnivore's and omnivore's. If a human eats raw meat, he/she risks diseases such as trichinellosis, E. coli, salmonella, parasites and more.
Even though human beings are physiologically omnivorous, if you look at our internal digestive and internal make-up, we are closer to a herbivore than an omnivore, as our body is not adapted/designed or well equipped for dealing with meat whereas omnivores internal make-up are designed to deal with meat consumption. Its not to say we can't eat meat, but our bodies are not as well equipped as an omnivore for meat consumption, and it can make us ill.
Humans are more anatomically similar to herbivores in that humans have long intestinal tracks, blunt teeth, and an inability to adequately process the saturated fat found in animal flesh, which causes physical harm over long periods of time, unlike in carnivores and omnivores.
Summary of the differences.
Facial Muscles
Carnivore - Reduced to allow wide mouth gape
Herbivore - Well-developed
Omnivore - Reduced
Human - Well-developed
Jaw Type
Carnivore - Angle not expanded
Herbivore - Expanded angle
Omnivore - Angle not expanded
Human - Expanded angle
Jaw Joint Location
Carnivore - On same plane as molar teeth
Herbivore - Above the plane of the molars
Omnivore - On same plane as molar teeth
Human - Above the plane of the molars
Jaw Motion
Carnivore - Shearing; minimal side-to-side motion
Herbivore - No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back
Omnivore - Shearing; minimal side-to-side
Human - No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back
Major Jaw Muscles
Carnivore - Temporalis
Herbivore - Masseter and pterygoids
Omnivore - Temporalis
Human - Masseter and pterygoids
Mouth Opening vs. Head Size
Carnivore - Large
Herbivore - Small
Omnivore - Large
Human - Small
Teeth (Incisors)
Carnivore - Short and pointed
Herbivore - Broad, flattened and spade shaped
Omnivore - Short and pointed
Human - Broad, flattened and spade shaped
Teeth (Canines)
Carnivore - Long, sharp and curved
Herbivore - Dull and short or long (for defense), or none
Omnivore - Long, sharp and curved
Human - Short and blunted
Teeth (Molars)
Carnivore Sharp, jagged and blade shaped
Herbivore Flattened with cusps vs complex surface
Omnivore Sharp blades and/or flattened
Human Flattened with nodular cusps
Chewing
Carnivore None; swallows food whole
Herbivore Extensive chewing necessary
Omnivore Swallows food whole and/or simple crushing
Human Extensive chewing necessary
Saliva
Carnivore No digestive enzymes
Herbivore Carbohydrate digesting enzymes
Omnivore No digestive enzymes
Human Carbohydrate digesting enzymes
Stomach Acidity
Carnivore Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
Herbivore pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
Omnivore Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
Human pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
Stomach Capacity
Carnivore 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
Herbivore Less than 30% of total volume of digestive tract
Omnivore 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
Human 21% to 27% of total volume of digestive tract
Length of Small Intestine
Carnivore 3 to 6 times body length
Herbivore 10 to more than 12 times body length
Omnivore 4 to 6 times body length
Human 10 to 11 times body length
Colon
Carnivore Simple, short and smooth
Herbivore Long, complex; may be sacculated
Omnivore Simple, short and smooth
Human Long, sacculated
Liver
Carnivore Can detoxify vitamin A
Herbivore Cannot detoxify vitamin A
Omnivore Can detoxify vitamin A
Human Cannot detoxify vitamin A
Kidney
Carnivore Extremely concentrated urine
Herbivore Moderately concentrated urine
Omnivore Extremely concentrated urine
Human Moderately concentrated urine
Nails
Carnivore Sharp claws
Herbivore Flattened nails or blunt hooves
Omnivore Sharp claws
Human Flattened nails
Intestinal Length
Evidence of our herbivorous nature is also found in the length of our intestines. Carnivores have short intestinal tracts and colons that allow meat to pass through it relatively quickly, before it has a chance to rot and cause illness. Humans, on the other hand, have intestinal tracts that are much longer. Up to 12 times the length of the human body, compared to just 3 times the length of an omnivore.
The long human intestinal tract actually makes it dangerous for people to eat meat. The bacteria in meat have extra time to multiply during the long trip through the digestive system, and meat actually begins to rot while it makes its way through the intestines. Many studies have also shown that meat can cause colon cancer in humans.
Comparing our anatomies clearly illustrates the fact that the human body is built to run on a vegetarian diet. Humans have absolutely none of the distinguishing anatomical characteristics that either carnivores or even natural omnivores have. | |
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| Are humans carnivores, omnivores, or herbivores?
Posted: 1/11/2008 12:12:43 AM | | i don't think we are omnivores, as omnivores eat absolutely anything. fish are omnivorse, they will eat other fishes, other fishes eggs and babies. although we have the potential to be omnivores we are more selective in what we eat. some of us eat only plants, some of us eat both meat and plants. so i think maybe a new class should be created for humans | |
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| Are humans carnivores, omnivores, or herbivores?
Posted: 1/11/2008 12:33:04 AM | o.p i think that mainly humans are omnivores however their are humans that can fall under any of the 3 classes.
It can be a choice for most of us.
However i'm not sure that anyone can definetly fall in one catergory simply a situation or an event in life may change that. | |
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| Are humans carnivores, omnivores, or herbivores?
Posted: 1/11/2008 12:33:05 AM | humans could eat anything if they were forced to, most chose not to eat everything
prefer beef to be raw, but evolution gave us bigger brain to allow us to learn to make fires to cook meat....
nice research but not going to become a plant eater solely on that :) | |
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| Are humans carnivores, omnivores, or herbivores?
Posted: 1/11/2008 12:45:32 AM | MSG 5, I'm an omnivore, I like my meat and I'm not about to stop eating it.
I may not have the optimised design to eat meat, but I can and I will.
I read a study on brain size and how humans got enough, cant remember if it was protein or whatever, to grow a brain so big. The upshot was that a vegeterian couldn't have developed a brain as large as ours so we wouldn't be human if we didn't eat meat. | |
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| Are humans carnivores, omnivores, or herbivores?
Posted: 1/11/2008 1:31:07 AM | We are omnivorous, generalist feeders, like rats!
Teethwise we have tearing, shearing teeth (incisors and canines) and grinding teeth (molars).
A lot of the distinctions made between the types of feeders are a bit skewed in humans because we are upright, we are the only species that doesn't move in the plane of our digestive system. Being upright has caused differences in the shape of our skulls and jaws. The shape of our lips, mouths and throat are also adapted more for producing language than for eating. Our facial muscles are well developed to allow the communication of emotion through facial expression.
As a species we are unique. A lot of the adaptations that we have as humans make us jack of all trades, master of none.
We don't have the enzymes that allow some animals to eat rotting meat, instead we have disgust, we are able to recognise and reject food that is not good, we are also able to communicate that disgust through facial expression (disgust is recognised across the world and is one of the 5 basic emotions).
Nor do we have the exceptional digestive tract of the true herbivore, we cannot digest plant material properly. Again, we're a bit crap at both in order that we can eat anything. As a species, we eat everything, from plant to animal, from insect to fungus, from fish to fowl. As individuals thoughwhat we eat tends to be within narrow parameters.
We haven't got nails to grip and tear. Instead, we have nails that don't get in the way of our exceptionally dexterous fingers. Also, opposable thumbs. | |
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| Are humans carnivores, omnivores, or herbivores?
Posted: 1/11/2008 1:32:05 AM | | I'm sure I've seen in another thread how vegans need to take certain supplements they can't get from vegetables alone which would negate your theory that we should be herbivores. Some thread about kids wanting to be vegetarians I think. But I could be wrong. What was the source of your research? | |
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| Are humans carnivores, omnivores, or herbivores?
Posted: 1/11/2008 1:41:39 AM | We are omnivorous, yes I can see the disparities in face and mouth shape and musculature but you have to remember our mouths have evolved for speech purposes rather than for eating.. As we have evolved we have developed ways of processing our foods prior to ingestion so therefore have no need for the classic omnivorous mouth shape which would interfere with speech. This is also true for the intestinal tract and internal organs.. German shepherds are true carnivores, yet their intestinal tract is too short to process meat... As we have begun to process our food we have had less need for the specialised organ performance... For every rule there is an exception..
Evolution is a funny thing it can disguise the true nature of an animal if it so chooses...
Egg laying mammals, live bearing fish... Amphibians living in the driest deserts... | |
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| Are humans carnivores, omnivores, or herbivores?
Posted: 1/11/2008 3:14:50 AM | Tan Y Ddraig
If you uare going to say that Humans are Herbevores based on those criteria then you have to remember that we evolved from aminals that ate fruit, berries, leaves and the like (ie herbevores) into animals that ate meat & fruits/vegetables.
We may not have evolved into full omnivores yet even though we are. | |
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| Are humans carnivores, omnivores, or herbivores?
Posted: 1/11/2008 6:17:43 AM | Msg 9 - if that study is true (and wasn't commissioned by a meat-eating organisation) then it could not have been protein - because even on a strict vegan diet you can get enough protein without eating meat or any animal by-product. I have personally not looked into any brain studies - but pretty much every vegetarian or vegan I know is very intelligent. A lot of vegans I know have very high IQs.
Personally I don't particularly CARE what category we are supposed to fall in - because I know that I have gone 18 years without eating any meat whatsoever (5 yrs vegan, 13 yrs veggie before that) and I have always been healthy. I never have to go to the doctors. In fact I know many meat eaters who are way more unhealthy and have many health problems.
People should stop thinking about what they are 'supposed' to be, and explore, and be compassionate. Check out the huge range of cruelty free food that is available - whether it be going to the freezer section of Holland & Barrett or even looking online (check out the vegan section in the 'special diets' section of www.goodnessdirect.co.uk - there's so much great stuff there that I bet meat eaters didn't even know existed) and try some. It would be nice if a meat eater would think 'ok, today I think I am going to try vegetarian sausages instead of the regular sausages I have'. I bet you'd enjoy them and knowing that you are not contributing to any cruelty should warm your heart (unless you don't have one). Even my dad who supposedly is a staunch meat eater (I do try to convert him!) always helps himself to my vegan sausage rolls when he sees them! | |
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| Are humans carnivores, omnivores, or herbivores?
Posted: 1/15/2008 4:06:22 PM |
People should stop thinking about what they are 'supposed' to be, and explore, and be compassionate. Check out the huge range of cruelty free food that is available - whether it be going to the freezer section of Holland & Barrett
Following on from this advice, I bought a bag of 'alternative beef' sliced cubes, for last nights chow mein. I treated it just like I would normally do beef cubes in the wok, i.e. burnt it lol, and made it nice n crispy and dark brown/bordering on black in parts.. and I couldn't tell the difference! I did put a lot of spices in though but it really tasted nice n crispy and the texture of meat. Amazing stuff.
It was a lot cheaper than beef too! I just have to work out what nutrients were in it now and if I'm missing out on much, and how I make up for any lost dietary requirements (if at all).
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| Are humans carnivores, omnivores, or herbivores?
Posted: 1/15/2008 4:34:58 PM | | Chimpanzees are omnivores aren't they? And aren't we somewhat like them anatomically? Do they have the enzymes? But then again Pandas should be carnivorous but can't be bothered to eat meat and so stick almost exclusively to bamboo (before you start I do know the real reason why) which their stomaches can't handle properly and I wonder if I'd class them as herbivores, carnivores or omnivores? | |
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Anneri
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Joined: 5/17/2007
Msg: 17 | |
| Are humans carnivores, omnivores, or herbivores?
Posted: 1/16/2008 12:35:45 AM | I think humans are naturally omnivores due to the fact that we have incissors as well as molars.
But personally im a vegetarian, i find the texture of meat disgusting, so i cant even have meat substitutes and when i did used to eat meat i suffered from lethargy, bloating and generally felt ill in myself, being on a vegetarian diet suits me. | |
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| Are humans carnivores, omnivores, or herbivores?
Posted: 1/16/2008 12:37:29 AM | We are omnivores, as Anneri said, due to the structure of our teeth..
But as we have evolved we can survive purely on vegetation... I think we suffer if we try living ONLY on meat though...
I do believe Chimpanzees are Herbivores... They dont eat meat i dont think. | |
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| Are humans carnivores, omnivores, or herbivores?
Posted: 1/16/2008 1:02:29 AM | chimps eat other chimps and any smaller monkeys they can get their paws on, so would guess they are not herbivores
also known to eat ants and seeds, fruit etc - sort of thing that grows or is found in trees or near trees :) | |
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| Are humans carnivores, omnivores, or herbivores?
Posted: 1/16/2008 1:41:36 AM | Teeth (Incisors)
Carnivore - Short and pointed
Herbivore - Broad, flattened and spade shaped
Omnivore - Short and pointed
Human - Broad, flattened and spade shaped
Our incisors match those of herbivores according to the graphs I've found on the net? 
Some very interesting debate on the very same subjects on the net to be found.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070504231629AAC3Frx
There is also an interesting article about it here with a graph describing the differences between omnivores, carnivores, herbivores, and seeing which ones we are most closely resemble out of about 15 different physical 'traits' that helps define which one we are.
http://www.vegsource.com/veg_faq/comparative.htm
And one for luck, try this article... It's scientifically based not a pro veg campaign.
http://telesisfile.blogspot.com/2008/01/telesis-file-natural-human-diet.html
And another chart which proves we more closely resemble herbivores than omnivores is here http://www.tierversuchsgegner.org/wiki/index.php?title=Taxonomy
Though I'm still looking for a 100% unbiased, scientifically researched answer, that has no axe to grind neither for or against any particular answer it may find. As I'm still a meat eater, I'm still looking for a completely impartial scientific study. But some of the links there (especially the last one) seem to have some very official looking data.
Still struggling to find scientific charts and data that go to show we are closer to omnivores than herbivores as it goes.. but here's something to research: Vitamin B-12 can only be obtained from animal sources and is essential in our diet. Is this true? Something to look into! I've also read that we can get it from dirty mushrooms/vegetables or something hehe
Also need to look in to the “The China Study” by T. Colin Campbell, PhD.
He presents the 20-year China Study, as well as hundreds of other controlled laboratory studies done over the course of the last 100 years. He encourages you to draw your own conclusions from the data, which is well foot-noted.
What are his conclusions? A whole foods, plant based diet can stop and often reverse such chronic diseases as cancer, heart disease, osteoporosis, diabetes…It can also prevent them from happening in the first place. (But I'm sure we all knew that anyways). | |
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| Are humans carnivores, omnivores, or herbivores?
Posted: 1/16/2008 3:34:40 AM | Most of your research has shown that we do not have the typical physical characteristics of carnivors, and i don't think in reality many people would attempt to argue that we are carnivores. Although i would question your research based on head shape, jaws and teeth, as it seems to have been restriced to predators in the true sense of the word, and thier is no suggestion in evolutionary records that humans have ever been predators that chase their prey down and kill it by sinking thier teeth into it's throat or ripping it apart using claws. so i would question it's relavance in your study.
Other examples of carnivores do exist that do not match these characters as well, such as whales, anteaters, squids and loads of others. Where do parasites sit? if using only these three eating types, they muct be carnivores as well, tho thay hardly fit the model....
The things that really marks humans (and apes) apart is intelligence, the opposable thumb, and communication. These three characteristics mean that our evolution has followed a quite seperate path from most other animals for a long time, and have resulted in us being quite an odd species. In many ways we are a true generalist, we have evolved and adapted to survive in almost any conditions, climate, terrane and eat almost any foodsource.
Internally we differ quite significantly from obligate herbivores, we do not have a ruminant type gut, our Ceacum is poorly developed and our appendix vestigual, the microflora found within our intestines is also poorly adapted to digesting plant matter, and the numbers of bacteria too low, meaning we are very inefficient at digesting plant matter, especially that high in cellulose.
This does not mean that we cannot live as a herbivore, as clearly we can, our bodies would appear to be bent towards eating plants, but in keeping with everything else, can handle just about any food we can get our hands on. so i would argue that we are omnivores, but not of the classic variety, but are bent towards herbivore characteristics, as that is the predominant food source, and so of most use as a survival adaptation. | |
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| Are humans carnivores, omnivores, or herbivores?
Posted: 1/16/2008 11:45:01 AM | Most of your research has shown that we do not have the typical physical characteristics of carnivors, and i don't think in reality many people would attempt to argue that we are carnivores. Although i would question your research based on head shape, jaws and teeth
Hiya Misplaced Celt... how are you?
My research has shown that we do not have the physical characteristics of omnivores, let alone carnivores! So I guess the study is to try and work out whether we are true omnivores, or a sort of herbivore that can deal with meat if we must to survive as a last resort.
You can see on the chart I put up in MSG5 (which can also be found on the links I put up on my last post), that we match the herbivore characteristics in every single area.
It compares all these..
Facial Muscles
Jaw Type
Jaw Joint Location
Jaw Motion
Major Jaw Muscles
Mouth Opening vs. Head Size
Teeth: Incisors
Teeth: Canines
Teeth: Molars
Chewing
Enzymes in Saliva
Stomach Type
Stomach Acidity
Stomach Capacity
Length of Small Intestine
Colon
Liver
Kidney
Nails
Thermostasis
It compares the physical differences between the 3 types.. herbivores, omnivores, and carnivores.. then pointing what attribute a human has, so you can make your own mind up which category we fall into.
In every single category we fall into, we fall into the herbivore category according to these charts and have not one single characteristic of an omnivore but there is a slight argument about our teeth, they're not strictly speaking a herbivore set of teeth,our incisors are somewhat omnivorous in their appearance. But as you rightly say, sometimes there are instances in the animal kingdom that buck the traditional trends when it comes to some attributes.
Internally we differ quite significantly from obligate herbivores, we do not have a ruminant type gut, our Ceacum is poorly developed and our appendix vestigual, the microflora found within our intestines is also poorly adapted to digesting plant matter, and the numbers of bacteria too low, meaning we are very inefficient at digesting plant matter, especially that high in cellulose
Now this is where I need to confess that I am not that great with big words lol.. So all that went right over my head so you may have a very good point but I don't know what any of that meant, apart from the bit about inefficient at digesting plant matter.
Well.. we are not so good at digesting unbroken corn kernals, thats for sure, but the rest of the plants are broken down fine I thought. As a herbivore we must make sure our food is excessively chewed anyways, to aid the digestion. (Not 'wolf' it down, like carnivores and omnivores do with their food). Herbivores are the only species that have carbohydrate digesting enzymes, omnivores do not. Then there's this..
Stomach Acidity
Carnivore Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
Herbivore pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
Omnivore Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
Human pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
So to me, it looks as if even though we are physically capable of being omnivorous, and enjoy eating meat, we are not best equipped for the job. It sometimes make us ill, gives us disease and cancers etc.. Possibly due to the length of our intestines, the meat spends too long in there rotting away as it take up to 5 days to pass through us, unlike omnivores and carnivores who have a much shorter intestine length which is better equipped for getting the meat out of the other end quicker! Or it could just be due to the world we live in today, with mass consumerism and intensive farming methods. The meat just isn't the same as it was 50 years ago and generations prior. Thats also something to be concerned about. I'm researching what goes on behind the scenes and what really happens before the food ends up on our plate, and its very enlightening, but sad too, what this world has come to.
Anyways, I think we are mis-placed, mis-educated herbivores that can tolerate moderate doses of 'quality' meat, which is always handy! But more research needs to be done  | |
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| Are humans carnivores, omnivores, or herbivores?
Posted: 1/16/2008 11:57:02 AM | Humans, like the other great apes are omnivores. I think only the Orang-utan is a herbivore.
Orthodox history suggests that in around humans have 10,000 years to have their stomach adjust to the prepared food we make ourselves, I believe it is a lot longer. Of all the tribes in the world that are the closest to nature none are vegetarian. There was one in India that was thought to be, but their diet was analysed it was found that they eat a lot of bugs, from which the majority of their protein came from...not my kind of diet but there you go:D | |
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| Are humans carnivores, omnivores, or herbivores?
Posted: 1/16/2008 12:02:56 PM | Humans, like the other great apes are omnivores. I think only the Orang-utan is a herbivore.
Would you like to explain how you reached that decision?
Oh I see what you mean now, the fact that generations before us have been eating meat, so we must be. Well maybe they were on the wrong diet as they didn't know any better? After all, all herbivores will be able to process animal protein to some degree or other since all protein is biochemically related.
I know that we do eat meat, but we could very well be making ourselves ill, for doing so, if we are designed to be herbivores. And there is certainly no need to eat meat in this day and age. I realise that only recently in fact, that we have become enlightened on the subject of diet.
If you look at a scientific study as elaborated in MSG5 you will notice that we do not even closely resemble the 20 characteristics and attributes of an omnivore.
Please enlighten me further if you wish, I'm all up for learning. | |
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Anneri
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Joined: 5/17/2007
Msg: 25 | |
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