| Sleep. Why have we not evolved out of the need for it?
Posted: 1/11/2008 6:04:57 AM | Not just man but all creatures.
In evolutionary terms, sleeping is very disadvantageous.
It leaves you open to attack and you have less time searching for food.
I know that without sleep we don't operate very well but why haven't we evolved the ability to regenerate while we're awake? | |
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| Sleep. Why have we not evolved out of the need for it?
Posted: 1/11/2008 8:17:38 AM | Probably goes back to the earliest forms of single celled life,
long before there were animals, or even oxygen in the environment.
During the night they probably just stopped metabolizing to conserve energy
It also extended the life of the organism as regeneration mechanisms evolved,
and the paradigm just continued as live evolved.
If we didn't sleep, we probably wouldn't live very long.
The light that burns twice as bright , burns half as long. | |
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| Sleep. Why have we not evolved out of the need for it?
Posted: 1/11/2008 10:12:06 AM | That's a very good question. I remember seeing a nature programme about a species that never sleeps, which has an enlarged frontal lobe. I suspect that this question goes with the other mysteries of why we still have an appendix, and other things that seem non-essential for human existence.
I also want to know why we haven't developed wings. Can you imagine how useful it would be for a human to fly? | |
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| Sleep. Why have we not evolved out of the need for it?
Posted: 1/11/2008 1:37:40 PM | | I suspect that the reason we still have tailbones, appendices and the need for sleep is that evolution doesn't explain everything. There are many tantalizing mysteries about existence as yet unsolved. Just my 2 cents. | |
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| Sleep. Why have we not evolved out of the need for it?
Posted: 1/11/2008 2:05:01 PM | With humans, I don't think that many of us really need to spend more time searching for food. Nor is being awake great protection from the main kinds of threat we are under.
I have pretty disturbed sleep, I sleep for short times and have vivid dreams. I've recently found that a dream which appears equivalent to a 4hr film can take place during 5-10mins of sleep. I think that a lot of invisible essential processes can only happen when we sleep.
Sometimes I kind of remain awake as I fall asleep. I feel sleep creep over my body and feel myself become paralysed and my subconscious mind becomes active and I will "dream" even whilst my conscious mind continues to be aware of it.
I feel that my poor sleep is connected with the endless battle I have with severe headaches, migraines and depression and these are closely related to my stress levels. Sleep feels like it should be healing, but I tend to wake up feeling worse than when I fell asleep.
I used to resent the need for sleep because I wanted to work all the time. I have sometimes worked in my sleep, planning or solving relevant work-related problems in my dreams. My dreams tend to be mostly problem-solving type dreams: get thrown into a complicated emotional scenario and try to figure it out and handle it. I think it does actually help with real life too sometimes. But a lot of the time I feel so exhausted. I would love to just sleep and not dream, not be solving problems or figuring anything out or rescuing anyone: just to rest.
My feeling is that the theories suggesting that sleep is essential for the way our brains wok is the right one. Because I dream so much, the meanings of my dreams and the symbolism my subconscious chooses seems to be clear to me. I think that our time asleep is downtime where the brain has no external stimuli, where the conscious mind is supposed to offline so that the subconscious mind can process through the key impressions of the day, linking them to significant issues and problems that we are trying to solve within ourselves.
If you regard the brain as a problem-solving machine then it is logical that after gathering information from out daily experiences, it processes the information, networking the new memories with the old ones. This feels true, based on what I have experienced. I think that the downtime is an essential part of the learning cycle: according to Kolb's model of experiential learning -- we experience, then we reflect on our experiences, we form theories and design experiments and seek experience again...
This thought makes me wonder how strong the drive for solving problems is and how much influence our subconscious may have in driving us towards experiences that give us more information on our most pressing problems -- experienced in real life as the inexplicable way we are drawn to situations that cause us grief in similar ways over and over. I suspect that this could actually explain a lot: perhaps the girl who is drawn to abusive men over and over is directed by her subconscious which is driven by the need to get more information about the significant issue and which is working on building up an understanding of this emotionally significant issue without the logical rational concern for the suffering associated with the experiences. Just an idea. | |
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| Sleep. Why have we not evolved out of the need for it?
Posted: 1/11/2008 6:05:31 PM | I think that dealing with day versus night pretty much sums up it up in my opinion. I am unaware of any creature that is dually evolved to operate efficiently both during the day and the night... although I am by no means an authority.
But I think that it is by far more efficient for a some creature to utilize sleep for energy conservation. | |
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| Sleep. Why have we not evolved out of the need for it?
Posted: 1/11/2008 7:04:57 PM | ^^^ Ever since we developed fire, we don't really need to sleep, because we only sleep because we cannot see and therefore cannot function. But if we can see, we can work night or day. In fact, we decrease our chances of survival massively, because we are one of the few species that go beyond our natural borders. We also are not equipped with natural weapons and natural killer instincts to protect ourselves from harm. We are also not equipped with natural abilities to smell out the food we need, to smell out which are good to eat, and to survive tasting different possible foodstuffs, to find out which are dangerous. So we often venture into unknown territories, where we are unprotected and unfed, and need to constantly stay awake to protect ourselves from both daytime and night-time predators, and where we need all the day and night to find enough food, build enough shelter and generally establish a civilisation. When we don't take this approach in unfamiliar territory, we often don't survive. So the fact that humans are different from other animals in these ways, makes it absolutely vital that we institute shifts for sentries to warn us of harm, to carry weapons wherever we go, to make new weapons on the spot because the weapons we carry often get lost or washed away, and to search for new good.
All of this would make any family of humans that developed the ability to survive without sleep with a far greater probability of survival that other humans. That alone provides a massive biological impetus for us to evolve the ability to survive without sleep. | |
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| Sleep. Why have we not evolved out of the need for it?
Posted: 1/11/2008 8:01:27 PM | With out sleep you do not just "operate very well", you die.
While you sleep you body and mind do a great number of things. With out sleep it will take a serious toll on the mind. It affects you memory and you will begin to hallucinate. Also with out sleep you will become very weak, suffer nerve damage, heal poorly and become ill easily. Eventually it can kill you if you stay awake for too long, though this is a very rare occurrence.
As a chronic insomniac I can tell you not sleeping is a bad thing. I once went 4 or 5 day with out sleep and it was anything less then fun. If you asked me to imagine what dying would be like I would probably say that it would be like that. I was so weak I had trouble opening some doors, my memory went to crap and I was hallucinating on and off. I felt sick and could not eat. I couldn't do anything because I was too tired to operate, or I just could not focus. Essentially I was dying. Eventually I crashed and slept for 32 hours. | |
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| Sleep. Why have we not evolved out of the need for it?
Posted: 1/11/2008 8:28:46 PM | What are the advantages of not sleeping?
The primary advantage, I would think, would be for prey animals being more alert to predators. The brains of most animals are usually already prepared for this anyway - which is why we wake up when there is a change in the environment, such as someone turning the TV *off* (not just on). But this assumes there is a significant chance of being eaten at night time.
The eyes of diurnal (non-nocturnal) animals are adapted for daylight conditions. They are not well adapted to night vision, so predatory animals aren't going to have much luck hunting. Energy is being wasted looking for food when the chances of replenishing that energy (with food) are slim to none. Therefore, it is a disadvantage for a diurnal animal to hunt at night.
Most nocturnal animals are not big-game predators. In fact, most nocturnal animals have evolved their habit to avoid being eaten themselves. For example, the ancestor of all mammals lived during the time of the Dinosaurs and became nocturnal simply because they could not compete with them. There was more chance of being dinner than eating it. | |
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| Sleep. Why have we not evolved out of the need for it?
Posted: 1/11/2008 10:12:00 PM |
Maybe we just like to sleep.
this really seems plausible.
maybe had we developed in to a super-cometitive non-social species we would have evolved to not sleep for the purposes of self-preservation. But, our evolution into a socially organized species has allowed us some reprieve with regard to constant self-protection.
or, maybe it served as a built in "spiritual" connection for our psyche ealry on in the evolution of humans. some cultures still have a very blurred line between dreaming and waking, in contrast to our sharp dellineation of the two. | |
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| Sleep. Why have we not evolved out of the need for it?
Posted: 1/11/2008 10:44:47 PM | | I read an article in wired magazine that stated it is possible to exist with two hours of sleep each day by breaking that two hours into equally spaced 20-minute increments. They say it is difficult at first but after a week if the schedule is rigid the mind and body will adust to it. | |
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| Sleep. Why have we not evolved out of the need for it?
Posted: 1/12/2008 10:28:15 AM |
why do we have to recharge our camera batteries? stupid question, op. That's food for a camera. Sleep for a camera, would be like saying you have to leave your camera on standby for 8 hours a day. IMHO, if most people had to do that, they'd throw it out and buy one that didn't need to "sleep". | |
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| Sleep. Why have we not evolved out of the need for it?
Posted: 1/12/2008 1:42:35 PM | The reason we haven't evolved into non sleeping organisms is because we don't have to in order to successfully survive and reproduce.
Many people seem to ignorantly believe that evolution is a system that seeks some apex of biological existence. It isn't; evolution is merely a system by which the most successful mutations and adaptations prevail via natural selection.
Therefore it should be quite obvious that biological organisms that routinely dedicate portions of their day to mental and physical regeneration will function far better than organisms that don't, and this concept is readily testable and verifiable.
Of course people can conceptualize a superior form of existing, based upon subjective criteria and tastes. That's the difference between an intelligent design and a evolved one based upon a natural selection system. One can verify that an intelligent system would adapt extremely rapidly, based upon the goals of said intelligence and the degree of it. Hence, why cars evolved over a period of just a couple of thousand years starting from simple fire and round objects and ending up as the extremely complex models with vast amounts of technology imparted into their creation today(obviously cars could've come into existence far sooner, but as I said that's dependent upon the degree of intelligence involved). Compare that to the billions of years required for life to evolve as it blindly bumped around, where success was defined as any particular lifeform just not dying before passing on the instructions to creating another one. | |
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| Sleep. Why have we not evolved out of the need for it?
Posted: 1/12/2008 5:58:00 PM | Some very interesting replys.
I do understand the concept of evolution and appreciate that intelligent design doesn't exist in nature. Its all a question of chance and the biggest changes on the evolutionary path have been when times get hard through climate change.
This still doesn't negate from the fact that a creature that doesn't need sleep would have a distinct advantage and a pretty big one at that.
I wonder if bacteria/viruses need sleep because this, afterall is what we evolved from.....Guess I'll have to get googling  | |
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| Sleep. Why have we not evolved out of the need for it?
Posted: 1/12/2008 7:27:36 PM | | The question is idiotic. Its like asking why we dont have a constant supply of adrenaline in our bodies and be hyper alert at all times. We want to match our alertness with the demands in the environment. if you can find periods where you can recharge you are using your resources much better. it makes you the most alert you can be at the times where it is important. | |
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| Sleep. Why have we not evolved out of the need for it?
Posted: 1/12/2008 8:00:46 PM | Mio stated: "The question (OP) is idiotic."
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comment: I think it's a good question. Being that traditionally the evolutionary school (which really IS a random operation, with a dose of selection) has had an orthodoxy of "survival of the fittest", surely a being that could operate around the clock would be some mean bugger.
(I am not "anti-evolution". However, it's typical incorporation with atheism is guesswork).
Maybe that's just the way it is supposed to be. Maybe dreams not only give insight at times, but also serve as shock absorbers of life.
The subject of appendices came up. We humans didn't see any use for them, but of late, a function has been ascribed to them: conservatories of "good" digestive/colon bacteria.
Probably the same thing with "useless" "junk" DNA.
Who actually knows for sure that it's "junk"?
Likewise sleep.
But if anybody in the future can live without it, and function with bright eyes around the clock, go for it.
Mio stated: "An appropriate question to ask would be why dont we all sleep 24/7 like the sloth. That question has tormented me all my life".
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comment: right on. | |
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| Sleep. Why have we not evolved out of the need for it?
Posted: 1/12/2008 10:27:32 PM |
Some very interesting replys.
I do understand the concept of evolution and appreciate that intelligent design doesn't exist in nature. Its all a question of chance and the biggest changes on the evolutionary path have been when times get hard through climate change.
This still doesn't negate from the fact that a creature that doesn't need sleep would have a distinct advantage and a pretty big one at that.
And any organism would have a distinct advantage if it could shoot laser beams out of it's eyes, fly at super sonic speeds, move mountains with enormous strength, etc, etc.
None of those qualities exist either, and it's not because they wouldn't provide a distinct advantage for any particular lifeform.
It's because for the very simple fact that biological organisms have limitations to what kinds of abilities and traits that can evolve.
I wonder if bacteria/viruses need sleep because this, afterall is what we evolved from.....Guess I'll have to get googling
Assuming for the moment your suggestion has validity, the concept of bacteria/viruses not needing sleep isn't a valid arguement.
Consider for a moment an ant, one that is being dropped from a tall building. In almost every case that ant will walk away unharmed. Scale that up to a human being dropped from a relatively similiar height (which would be kilometers), and it's extremely unlikely said human will survive.
This is do to simple physics, and proves that scaling capabilities from the real small to the really large doesn't work. Regardless of whether bacteria/viruses require any method of sleep or not, the point stands that you are comparing the regeneration needs of an extremely simple organism to ones millions of times more massive and complex. | |
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