| Americans please I beg of you, vote informed
Posted: 1/13/2008 11:23:33 AM | I am very invested in this election for 2008. Political opinions aside I beg of you if you are going to participate, please make an:
EDUCATED
INFORMED
RATIONAL/LOGICAL
WELL ROUNDED
decision about who you believe would be the best president for the country AS A WHOLE and not just your own particular situation.
Do not vote on someone because of
RACE
SEX
RELIGION
PERSONALITY
PERSONAL TASTES
There are many many people whose lives have been less than average as a result of the current administration. People are suffering, jobs are lost, people are hungry and stuck and bad situations.
Please whoever you vote for, make a good choice for Americans as a whole, not just the rich or poor, black or white, immigrants or aliens, male or female, democrat or republican. Please understand each vote does count and if you haven't taken a COLLGE LEVEL GOVERNMENT COURSE ON POLITICS whereby you truly understand the fundamental platform differences between parties, please GET INFORMED. Don’t vote for a puppet because you like what they have to say, vote for what they can prove they can do!
I realize that it is impossible to know everything about everyone and all the issues but please try to gain as much unbaised information about the candidates as you can. I have seen no election matter more in my lifetime thus far.
peace | |
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| Americans please I beg of you, vote informed
Posted: 1/13/2008 11:35:11 AM | average- you are right.............people are suffering in YOUR state of Michigan far worse than other states because of the mistakes your Democrat governor has made.
People SHOULD always be informed BEFORE they vote- nothing new here. | |
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| Americans please I beg of you, vote informed
Posted: 1/13/2008 12:06:31 PM | philly - "people are suffering in YOUR state of Michigan far worse than other states because of the mistakes your Democrat governor has made."
Yes our state is in pure turmoil and decline. I think this is a matter of opinion as to who is at fault. Any governor alone couldn't save Michigan because its a sinking ship of great magnitude. Michigan's problems began in the early 1980's when manufacturing in cars began to decline and since our economy was built on that and hasn't been replaced with any type of new economy there can't be any change here.
From what I understand our governor has been campaigning to get foreign manufactures to set up shop here in Michigan to slow the bleeding. However the fundamental problem is that we need to get technology based manufactures and developers here and other growing profitable industries in our state so that we can begin to rebuild the loss of manufacturing.
The people who made the cars had the disposible income for travel and recreation, service, entertainment, and needed healthcare. So without them t-hose industries have suffered as well. Its been a trickle down effect. Quaint beautiful small towns that boomed with tourisim in Northern Michigan have practically dried up, but this lack of disposible income is not a problem subject solely to Michigan, since much of the tourism revenue is from out of state.
Furthermore, the governor has tried to do many things for Michigan and she is ALWAYS blocked for it. So here we have a someone who can't get anything passed here, for whatever reason, and I don't think it has anything to do with her being who she is. Perhaps its because we have some democrats and republicans who do not wish to play nice together to get things done, maybe it is because she is a woman, who knows. The bottom line is the whole in this sinking ship was created decades ago and to expect one person to patch it up alone, well hey - god bless her for trying, I wouldn't even attempt it.
peace | |
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| Americans please I beg of you, vote informed
Posted: 1/13/2008 2:04:45 PM |
There are many many people whose lives have been less than average as a result of the current administration. People are suffering, jobs are lost, people are hungry and stuck and bad situations.
Jobs are lost? More people employed now on a percentage basis than anytime in US history. Just how low do you think the unemployment rate will go under the next administration? People weren't suffering, hungry and stuck in bad situations during every past administrations? Which candidate will eliminate all of these problems and be a factor in even lower unemployment? How will he/she accomplish all of this?
You're right. People should be informed. I'm right. Few ever will be. Precisely the logic behind the electoral college. | |
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| Americans please I beg of you, vote informed
Posted: 1/13/2008 5:35:59 PM | | I swaer to god there should be an IQ test before Americans are allowed to vote. Either that or take their military toys away and send the naughty children to their rooms. | |
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| Americans please I beg of you, vote informed
Posted: 1/13/2008 6:14:42 PM | | mike -lol, I don't doubt it. As you can see here I made a point and yet for some reason I am being attacked for it, and by reports I've heard as recently as this week on NPR the unemployment rate HAS GONE UP and we can't fix anything because of this war nonsense that isn't going anywhere -sigh. So now someone else is going to spat a bunch of uneducated ventom about that part too- but oh well I don't care ; ) | |
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| Americans please I beg of you, vote informed
Posted: 1/13/2008 6:20:07 PM | Good post, thankyou for posting this. One of the worst examples of this sort of thing I overheard was a group of young women talking to each other about who they are going to vote for, either Edwards or Obama because they were the best looking and all the others were too old and ugly.  I could care less what a presidential candidate looks like, or how attractive they are, what matters to me is their positions on issues and experience. | |
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| Americans please I beg of you, vote informed
Posted: 1/13/2008 6:39:56 PM |
a group of young women talking to each other about who they are going to vote for, either Edwards or Obama because they were the best looking and all the others were too old and ugly.
Thats why Micheal Judge made the movie call the "idiocracy!"
Really sums up the average american body politic quite well. Thankfully we are still kind of a republic anyway.
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| Americans please I beg of you, vote informed
Posted: 1/14/2008 3:43:31 AM | I find it interesting how many people think the president has huge amounts of power. The real power lies in Congress. Without congressional support, presidents really can't do much of anything. For all people bash Bush and the current state of affairs, Congress is much more responsible for it than him.
As far as making informed decisions when you vote... Can you name a presidential candidate who isn't making all kinds of vote buying promises that will be paid for by your grandchildren? Real, substantive issues are not discussed. They are boring and require thought and tough, unpleasant decisions. Between the democrats and republicans there is but a minute amount of difference and mainly on issues that don't amount to a hill of beans in the long run anyway. | |
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| Americans please I beg of you, vote informed
Posted: 1/14/2008 6:03:59 AM |
lol - yes rsx and on top of that they should take an unbiased collge level course that they have to pass on top of it.
Good luck finding one of these. | |
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| Americans please I beg of you, vote informed
Posted: 1/14/2008 8:47:45 AM | Nothing depends on it.
In some countries, they vote based on how long they have known each candidate.
NOT, mind you, on how much they like the candidate, just on how long they've known him or her.
In some countries, they vote based on how good he or she looks in a suit.
In some countries, they vote based on age (older being usually better, this obviously does NOT apply in the US).
In many, many countries, they 'vote' - ahem - based on who has the most and biggest guns.
In these United States, we vote for the WASP guy with the best hair, whitest teeth and best TV persona. | |
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| Americans please I beg of you, vote informed
Posted: 1/14/2008 8:53:17 AM | The USA gets very little for its educational dollar. The public education system there needs a complete overhaul. Public education used to be a strength but now is a weakness.
Until that is remedied, I am not optimistic about democracy in the USA. In addition, there is a part of the population that is anti-science, anti-education, anti-reason and proud to be ignorant. With people like that in the electorate, another Bush is a real possibility. | |
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| Americans please I beg of you, vote informed
Posted: 1/14/2008 10:02:35 AM | | i agree that theres a problem with our system, but to me it starts at home. the breakdown of the family is the root problem of most issues in this country, if kids are not taught respect and how to behave how do u except the school system to do so? ignogrance starts at home with are children , not the countys elected leaders.but i do agree we have a big problem in that area, but to me blaming anything but the fundemental building blocks of life ( parents ) just masks the problems. | |
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| Americans please I beg of you, vote informed
Posted: 1/14/2008 10:04:57 AM |
find it interesting how many people think the president has huge amounts of power. The real power lies in Congress. Without congressional support, presidents really can't do much of anything. For all people bash Bush and the current state of affairs, Congress is much more responsible for it than him.
Well, some say the real power lies with the VP , currently.
Thanks to the use of signing statements, Bush has been able to avoid using vetoes (and having them overturned) , and pick and choose which laws he has to follow.
Bush challenges hundreds of laws
President cites powers of his office
By Charlie Savage, Globe Staff | April 30, 2006
WASHINGTON -- President Bush has quietly claimed the authority to disobey more than 750 laws enacted since he took office, asserting that he has the power to set aside any statute passed by Congress when it conflicts with his interpretation of the Constitution.
Among the laws Bush said he can ignore are military rules and regulations, affirmative-action provisions, requirements that Congress be told about immigration services problems, ''whistle-blower" protections for nuclear regulatory officials, and safeguards against political interference in federally funded research.
Legal scholars say the scope and aggression of Bush's assertions that he can bypass laws represent a concerted effort to expand his power at the expense of Congress, upsetting the balance between the branches of government. The Constitution is clear in assigning to Congress the power to write the laws and to the president a duty ''to take care that the laws be faithfully executed." Bush, however, has repeatedly declared that he does not need to ''execute" a law he believes is unconstitutional.
ttp://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/04/30/bush_challenges_hundreds_of_laws/
Now , of course, signing statements have been used before. They've never been used in this volume before, by a President seeking to essentially " line item veto" anything he wants to interpret his own way.
Now line item vetoes habe been ruled illegal :
However, U.S. District Court Judge Thomas F. Hogan ruled on February 12, 1998, that unilateral amendment or repeal of only parts of statutes violated the U.S. Constitution. This ruling was subsequently affirmed on June 25, 1998, by a 6-3 decision of the Supreme Court of the United States in the case Clinton v. City of New York. The case was brought by the then New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line-item_veto
When signing statements are used in this way, and in this volume, they echo the type of actions that Congress passes. The President can "pick and choose" what he sees fit to obey - and ignore anything he feels is in his best interest.
Back on topic, one should never vote for someone without understanding their platform, and without analyzing their voting record. What they say must be examined against what they do.
With the internet today, that's not that hard.
If you don't do that, you get exactly what you deserve. | |
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| Americans please I beg of you, vote informed
Posted: 1/14/2008 11:22:11 AM | mike -lol, I don't doubt it. As you can see here I made a point and yet for some reason I am being attacked for it, and by reports I've heard as recently as this week on NPR the unemployment rate HAS GONE UP and we can't fix anything because of this war nonsense that isn't going anywhere -sigh. So now someone else is going to spat a bunch of uneducated ventom about that part too- but oh well I don't care ; )
With all due respect to Mike what some people think is "information" and exactly what fits into a syllogism can, however inconcievably, be two entirely different things.
Do vote informed, but also don't patronize from an utterly unsubstantiated pedestal. With all duer respect if you want to ridicule NPR bring forth some counter substance. Otherewise what is there for a critical thinker to do but laugh at the laugher? Anybody notice they revamped predictions of recession now? So what kind of fiscal conservatives are you supporting this time? . As to percentage of people employed now what is the real dollar value of MOST wages now compared to previous times? And who tried to classify kids at McDonald's as factory workers?LOL.
This Administration will go down arguably as the most powerful and secretive one in our nation's history. Before November 2006 with the help of the likes of Mr. Murdoch Mr. Cheney, Mr. Rove, etc., were able to use divisive and arguably unsubstantiated rhetoric to obscure pertinent, known realities to advance the Administration's agenda. They were not the first Administration to do this, but IMHO they have proven to be the most shameless. Do vote informed. Be informed about those that actually deserve accountability.  | |
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| Americans please I beg of you, vote informed
Posted: 1/14/2008 2:14:02 PM | double cabin- perhaps you misunderstood my point, I was NOT rediculing NPR, I listen to every day as well as the bbc because I like to be informed. I was stating that as a source for my information. Thanks for the information.
Montrealguy- thanks for backing me up! Great points to have posted, I appreciate your showing exactly what I am talking about.
Okay guys- if a president doesn't matter, how did Clinton get the deficet so far down? How did FDR save our country for poverty and despair in the 1930's? How did civil right movements get anything done in the 1960's? Presidents DO matter, they are not perfect but they matter.
I do agree the electorial collge system does need to be overhauled, I don't think significant change will ever happen in this country until its chucked but most people don't know how it works - thus they don't understand the problem. I don't think voting is only for the smartest, you only have to be smart enough to understand the process from a government stand point and be smart enough to vote informed. Voting for charisma and not being informed is exactly how we ended up in the mess that bush has put us in now! IMO. Having said that I stand my statement that all people should have the right to vote but should have to pass a collge level unbiased government course.
Furthermore, I think a chart cross referencing what each candidate stands for show frequently during the debates might be helpful. Sometimes its difficult to get past the puffery and hype to hear what they are really saying. | |
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| Americans please I beg of you, vote informed
Posted: 1/14/2008 3:36:26 PM |
if a president doesn't matter, how did Clinton get the deficet so far down?
Some people are good at campaiging and winning elections, others are good at governing. Apparantly poeple who know him say he was good at both. He's nor a Rhodes scholar for nothing.
But, having the dot.com bubble during his term helped a lot. When the Wall St guys took Yahoo public they expected to raise $400M and raised $800M which shocked them. And bagen a serious investment in technology. It got stupid though as very few people really understood what was a resonable investment and what was just garbage.
Plus he didn't spend $8000 a second on "Vietnam: The Sequel - Revenge of the Neocons".
Republican administrations have a tendancy to paint an imaginary enemey then spend fortuns defating it, ot trying to with the end result the same actors profit. Look at Halliburton/KBR for example. Democrats do it too, but not to the same extent. | |
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| Americans please I beg of you, vote informed
Posted: 1/14/2008 4:04:29 PM | | please shut up with REALLY dumb postings. The same people more or less voted bush twice and clinton twice...and Clinton was the worst ever. Wish W could go 4-more!! | |
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| Americans please I beg of you, vote informed
Posted: 1/14/2008 4:14:40 PM |
Okay guys- if a president doesn't matter, how did Clinton get the deficet so far down?
Clinton had nothing to do with the deficit being down when he was in office. Us treasury certificates soared in the nineties right along with the rest of the stock market. The effects of Reaganomics began to be felt in the nineties. Please point to one action that clinton himself did to make the deficit drop while he was in office.
How did FDR save our country for poverty and despair in the 1930's?
He didn't. FDR damn near busted this countries economy. He was saved from completly devastating our economy on December 7, 1941. And besides, FDR did not impliment those programs, congress did. How do you think they were funded. Can the president apporopriate funds now? Or then? Did he somehow on his own repeal article one of the constitution while he was in office? Just where are you coming up with these outlandish economic statements?
How did civil right movements get anything done in the 1960's?
I agree that LBJ did a fabulous job of law inforcement during the sixties greatly contributing to the equal rights movement. Enforcing the law is one the president's to primary jobs, the other being Commander In Chief of the armed forces. But he passed no new civil rights laws. Again, he does not have that power under the constitution so he is hardly very important at all in the civil rights movement on his own.
I stand my statement that all people should have the right to vote but should have to pass a collge level unbiased government course.
Fine, then work hard to have congress write the twenty eight amendment to the constitution. But then your work has barely begun. Because now you'll have to get thirty eight state legislatures to vote to ratify. That ain't gonna be at all easy if even possible. The electoral college is here to stay. Why. Because nobody can come up with any better system of selecting the president and vice president that any two congressmen/women will ever agree on much less three forths of the state legislatures.
I don't think voting is only for the smartest, you only have to be smart enough to understand the process from a government stand point and be smart enough to vote informed. Voting for charisma and not being informed is exactly how we ended up in the mess that bush has put us in now! IMO. Having said that I stand my statement that all people should have the right to vote but should have to pass a collge level unbiased government course.
So now you need a college education to vote. I can see right now that I am more informed than you on our constitution and method of governing and I've nothing but a high school diploma. Let me guess, you are a college graduate. This arrogance and elitism at it's worst. I cannot believe that you would even begin to think that you are somehow more intelligent than me because of your education. In fact, from what I have read of your knowledge of how our government works, you would not pass a test that I made up. You do not even seem to realize what the powers of the president and congress are and we've yet to even touch on the judicial branch. Do you know what would be result of inacting your voter test? Ninety percent of natural born citizens would not be able to vote and the people picking our representatives and voting on local measures would be mostly newly naturalized US citizens from foreign countries who could run your butt in circles with their knowledge of the constitution and our government structure. You see, they just passed such a test.
And besides, after passing your test, what prevents a person from closing the curtain in thier voting booth and voting for the most handsome man on the ballot? Will the definition of handsom be on your test? And who's definition? Every man is handsome to Whoopie Goldberg. No man is handsome to Rosie O'Donnel. | |
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